Enda Kenny wants 5 way election debate

COYW

Dionysus wrote: »

Great to see a leader of Fine Gael kicking up a fuss just to get Gerry Adams included in democratic debate. How times change.

Yes but Enda, the next leader of the country, is looking for his inclusion to cover his own ineptitude. Adams was so bad last time round, that he would actually make Enda look good.

COYW

jank wrote: »

Yeap sure, remember when the media were salvating over the thought that Cowen would roast Enda every day in the Dail? That worked out well ..!?:rolleyes:

To be fair, he did mess Enda and Happy up so much that they managed to land themselves in opposition for the current term, from a seemingly unbeatable position.

I just despair when I see the lot of them.

steelcityblues

jank wrote: »

Yeap sure, remember when the media were salvating over the thought that Cowen would roast Enda every day in the Dail? That worked out well ..!?:rolleyes:

"and sure he's very intelligent once you get to know him!" :rolleyes:

LeixlipRed

VB confirms that TV3 will invite the ULA to put forward a spokesperson for their debate. 10 candidates being their criteria for who qualifies.

steelcityblues

LeixlipRed wrote: »

VB confirms that TV3 will invite the ULA to put forward a spokesperson for their debate. 10 candidates being their criteria for who qualifies.

Silly idea by Browne. They don't have the mandatory Dail representation that SF and Grenes have, which makes those two legitimate to be involved in every debate.

This is more about playing to his own political biases - he would have to include the maverick economic right independent types if he wants to be consistent here.

LeixlipRed

The ULA is an alliance of established political parties. How do you group independents? They are, by nature, independent so I can't see how the two can be compared. And I'm willing to wager with you that ULA > Greens post-election.

steelcityblues

LeixlipRed wrote: »

The ULA is an alliance of established political parties. How do you group independents? They are, by nature, independent so I can't see how the two can be compared. And I'm willing to wager with you that ULA > Greens post-election.

Haven't Ross, Somerville, etc. described themselves as a 'grouping' , so how is that not the same as the ULA, who we know are a collection of far left parties?

They are not established Oireachtas parties like SF and Greens which is the important difference.

Hell, on this logic they would have to include those Christian Solidarity guys if they have any candidates up again.

Again this says more about Browne pandering to his own political biases than anything else.

I'm hardly a bigtime Enda defender either, but why did he spin the argument in Martin's favour tonight too?

LeixlipRed

And so what if Christian Solidarity are included if they reached ten candidates? Unless the Ross crew actually form a political party with defined policies I can't see any argument for them being included winning out.

And Browne said this would be TV3's policy. Clearly he's a lefty, I think he's a legend of course But he certainly isn't organising the debate on TV3 single handedly.

steelcityblues

LeixlipRed wrote: »

And so what if Christian Solidarity are included if they reached ten candidates? Unless the Ross crew actually form a political party with defined policies I can't see any argument for them being included winning out.

And Browne said this would be TV3's policy. Clearly he's a lefty, I think he's a legend of course But he certainly isn't organising the debate on TV3 single handedly.[/QUOTE]


But who do you think the most dominant negotiator behind the scenes will be?

LeixlipRed

I don't know to be honest. Is Vincent Browne not just employed to present that show? Surely the TV3 news room will be the guys working on the debate? You tell me

steelcityblues

LeixlipRed wrote: »

I don't know to be honest. Is Vincent Browne not just employed to present that show? Surely the TV3 news room will be the guys working on the debate? You tell me

Pretty sure Vinny sees himself as the station's and #1 star and will bargain heavily for it. Probably right too!

nkay1985

This was a great move politically from Kenny. His first media interaction with Martin since he's taken over is to paint him as arrogant and undemocratic. Very well done. A bigger debate panel also means there'll be less focus on him, sparing him the scrutiny he came under in the debate last time around.

Personally I'm very glad this has been brought up as I thoguht it was bad form to only invite Kenny and Ahern last time out. Let them all square off and see how they do.

jank

COYW wrote: »

To be fair, he did mess Enda and Happy up so much that they managed to land themselves in opposition for the current term, from a seemingly unbeatable position.

I just despair when I see the lot of them.

Where was this now? The 5th dimension?

flash1080

Badabing wrote: »

Ciaran Lynch from Labour just lashed Fine Gael on the Last Word for not wanting a 3 way debate, saying they want to hide him.

Yes it's fairly embarrassing for Enda and FG, the other two main parties and leaders have called him out for a 3-way debate, the tv stations have called him out for a 3-way debate. Labour have branded Enda as a "chicken" according to the papers, Labour Youth had a sign outside the Dáil saying 'What's Enda scared of?', and Ciarán Lynch is publicly asking why FG aren't going to put their captain on the pitch.

Pepe LeFrits

You have to credit FF for coming out first on this and framing the debate. Where the hell does the idea of a 3 man debate come from, what's the rationale for it? It was 2 last time, and it should be 2 again. Or 4, you could make an argument for that. Or 5 or 6, too. 3 makes no sense, other than to Labour and FF who want the chance to take votes off FG without losing them to SF.

Irish Slaves for Europe

cancercowboy wrote: »

I'm sorry, how did you know he "did nothing"? In fact he spoke with this TD (PJ Sheehan), who is not running in the 2011 General Election, and told him to apologize.

Can you post a link to prove this? As per the Irish times article on the matter, it said:

In a personal statement issued this evening Mr Sheehan said: “Following a discussion today with Fine Gael leader Enda Kenny TD, I have tendered my resignation as deputy spokesperson on agriculture with special responsibility for forestry, with immediate effect.

“I have advised the Party Leader that I do not want to be considered for any other position. I will continue to work diligently on behalf of my constituents in Cork South West.”

No where does he mention Kenny told him to apologise, in fact from the statement it seems Kenny did not even ask him to resign as deputy spokesman, it sounds like it was all his own decision. What we do know is that Kenny told gardia at the scene to ignore Sheehans comments.

cancercowboy wrote: »

The man was 76 years old, drank too much and acted like a Muppet.

Oh boo fcuking hoo. The gombeen could have killed someone.

cancercowboy wrote: »

We've all been there. Glad to see you're throwing stones at glass houses though.

No, we really haven't.

cancercowboy wrote: »

It's also good to see you're focusing your anger where it belongs, on an old man who drank to much and not the Fianna Fáil party who's TD was convicted for drink driving, yet they kept him in the party and didn't even censure him. This and you know, commit economic treason.

FF are finished for at least the next 4 years, so I'm not going to waste any more time on them. When FG are in power I would hope and expect to see several members of FF including Cowan and several bankers under criminal investigation and prosecuted if any fraud/wrongdoing is evident.

Irish Slaves for Europe

flash1080 wrote: »

Yes it's fairly embarrassing for Enda and FG, the other two main parties and leaders have called him out for a 3-way debate, the tv stations have called him out for a 3-way debate. Labour have branded Enda as a "chicken" according to the papers, Labour Youth had a sign outside the Dáil saying 'What's Enda scared of?', and Ciarán Lynch is publicly asking why FG aren't going to put their captain on the pitch.

Will be interesting to see how this plays out if a big divide opens up between FG and Labour over this. SF could end up in government with FG if things carry on like this.

ednwireland

actually the last thing i want to see is any leaders debates 1 to 1's with the leaders with the other interviewer on th VB show would expose a lot more truths than a 3 way or 5 way shouting match.

anyway what makes micheal martin think he can call for anything considering their poll showings (although i suspect they will pull in a lot more seats than that poll shoowing gives them)

and dont forget FF are going to make this campaign very dirty i see charcter assasinations as their only option to go up in the polls

Cannibal Ox

Yay, our politicians are bickering about who can take part in the debates while other issues like, I dunno, the banks, the IMF, and the general bankruptcy of the country are put to the back. Very responsible, exactly the kind of national discourse I want my politicians to be engaging in right now.

Sky want a five way debate with Adam Boulton as moderator, to be broadcast live throughout Europe, the Middle East, Africa and Australia.

DoesNotCompute

flash1080 wrote: »

Yes it's fairly embarrassing for Enda and FG, the other two main parties and leaders have called him out for a 3-way debate, the tv stations have called him out for a 3-way debate. Labour have branded Enda as a "chicken" according to the papers, Labour Youth had a sign outside the Dáil saying 'What's Enda scared of?', and Ciarán Lynch is publicly asking why FG aren't going to put their captain on the pitch.

I tend to agree with Enda. Why only a 3-way debate if there are 5 serious contenders? A 3 way debate is undemocratic, and a 5 way debate is not "hiding" Kenny, as he will be part of the 5 people involved in the debate.

Labour aren't doing themselves any favours painting Enda as a coward, because the most likely outcome of the election is going to be (IMHO) a Labour/FG coalition. If Labour and FG are at each other throats like this post-Election, it won't be a very stable govt.

Moreover, by attacking Enda, Labour are aligning themselves with FF, which is not a good thing, and could possibly lose Labour some votes.

DoesNotCompute

Cannibal Ox wrote: »

Sky want a five way debate with Adam Boulton as moderator, to be broadcast live throughout Europe, the Middle East, Africa and Australia.

WTF? Seriously Sky should stay out of it - leave it to our national broadcaster (who are legally obliged to do things like this).

jmayo

flash1080 wrote: »

Yes it's fairly embarrassing for Enda and FG, the other two main parties and leaders have called him out for a 3-way debate, the tv stations have called him out for a 3-way debate. Labour have branded Enda as a "chicken" according to the papers, Labour Youth had a sign outside the Dáil saying 'What's Enda scared of?', and Ciarán Lynch is publicly asking why FG aren't going to put their captain on the pitch.

That whole post and argument could also be spun to ask why martin and gilmore are so scared of including SF (and the greens) in the debates.
What are they scared of ?

If we were to go with the norm, Labour would not be in the debates either as it would be between the two biggest parties currently in the Dáil.

If we went on opinion polls it would mean ff were not there.

It is a bit high and mighty of martin and gilmore to claim they have more right to debate than SF.

Why does martin feel it is ok to include Labour this time in the debates, but not include the party whose poll rating are as big as his own, whose leader has a higher opinion rating than his own and why not include the party that has been his partner in government ?

Cannibal Ox wrote: »

Yay, our politicians are bickering about who can take part in the debates while other issues like, I dunno, the banks, the IMF, and the general bankruptcy of the country are put to the back. Very responsible, exactly the kind of national discourse I want my politicians to be engaging in right now.

Sky want a five way debate with Adam Boulton as moderator, to be broadcast live throughout Europe, the Middle East, Africa and Australia.

I would like someone like SKY to host the debate rather than RTE with their pro ff mare o'callaghan, but dear God not if they want to broadcast it to the world.

And no it wouldn't just be Kenny that I would be worried about.
People would wonder how martin, a member of the current inept administration had the right to stand there and utter sh**e, Gilmore would do his usual tirade but have no answers about not making cuts, gormless would waffle about stag hunts or saving the planet and adams would scare the bejaysus out of every investor.

Cannibal Ox

I saw a picture of a youth member of Labour dressed as a chicken calling Enda Kenny a chicken today. Has anyone else seen that episode of the West Wing (its season 6, Santos is trying to get into the party debate) that is, to all intents and purposes, the exact same script that this whole mess is working through? It's way, way too similar to be a coincidence and I'm pretty sure somebody running the campaigns has been watching re-runs of the West Wing to prep for the election.

DoesNotCompute wrote:

WTF? Seriously Sky should stay out of it - leave it to our national broadcaster (who are legally obliged to do things like this).

Money, money, money!

Cal_Egle

Has anyone considered what might happen if they let FF and Lab go head to head on one of the debates and FG withdraw from it. Right now, the two party leaders are so full of themselves, let them explain individually how they have profited from the people. Eamonn Gilmaore can explain why he complained to the Dail about how much the Dept of Education paid to his wife for a worthless piece of land, and then had the cheek to complain about it in the Dail.... Monsieur Martin can explain why he spent 70k on a trip with his faimly at the tax-payers expense last year, how he insists that Croneyism is dead and gone, while his 2 brothers are high ranking FF's in Cork, and will probably look to run in the Dail in 2015.... Come on... let the 2 Gombeens go commit Political "hari kari".
Let them explain to the people of Ireland that the reason they want to have a Leaders debate excluding 23% of public opinion (based on recent opinion polls) ie almost 1/4 people will not vote FG/Lab/FF is that they want to disenfranchise that % of the population to further their own "Political" gains.... all at a time when all the leaders are saying that they want to improve the system... what a joke, i am so sick of these manipulative idiots driving their own political agenda for their own financial gain.:(