Enda Kenny wants 5 way election debate

ei.sdraob · 27-01-2011 1:35pm

It be entertaining to watch SFers tie themselves in knots :P

27-01-2011 1:37pm

heh, they've changed the title of the story now

I was saying this all last night. Why oh why should Martin be a main party in these debates seeing as out of all the parties, FF has absolutely ZERO chance of being in any new government. Kenny is 100% correct. Don't give FF the platform and the publicity, they don't deserve it.

d'Oracle · 27-01-2011 1:40pm

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

FF has absolutely ZERO chance of being in any new government.

Anyone who really believes that, hasn't been paying attention to Irish politics.
I admit its unlikely, but the FF machine has not been this successful down the years by accident.

Make no mistake they are still in this election.

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Kenny is 100% correct. Don't give FF the platform and the publicity, they don't deserve it.

I thought FF were part of the 5, no?

greenasgrass · 27-01-2011 1:41pm

Enda must be going for the Silvio Berlusconi model of politics

Biggins · 27-01-2011 1:42pm

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

heh, they've changed the title of the story now

Aye, I noticed that! :pac:

27-01-2011 1:43pm

d'Oracle wrote: »

Anyone who really believes that, hasn't been paying attention to Irish politics.
I admit its unlikely, but the FF machine has not been this successful down the years by accident.

Make no mistake they are still in this election.

I thought FF were part of the 5, no?

They won't be in government, end of.

And FF would be part of the 5, of course. What I'm saying is they do not deserve a spot with FG/Labour as a "main contender" party if there was to be a 3-way debate. Am I right in thinking they've polled lower than SF recently?

Biggins · 27-01-2011 1:44pm

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

...Am I right in thinking they've polled lower than SF recently?

I think so, yes.

geeky · 27-01-2011 1:48pm

TBH, I'd disagree with the person who lamented the idea of Sky hosting a debate. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like any of our home-grown broadcasters have someone with both the gravitas/nous to chair the debate and the self-discipline not to let their bias run riot. Sky, meanwhile - despite Newscorp's man-love for the tories - organised a very level, well-run debate last year.

d'Oracle · 27-01-2011 1:48pm

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

They won't be in government, end of.

Cos you say so?
:rolleyes:

I have seen it said before.
The Experts who have been observing politics and elections for donkeys years are not writing FF off. Who are you that you know better?

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

And FF would be part of the 5, of course. What I'm saying is they do not deserve a spot with FG/Labour as a "main contender" party if there was to be a 3-way debate. Am I right in thinking they've polled lower than SF recently?

A 3 way debate is just that.
There is no main contender party. FG and labour will form government if it is expedient to. They are not one entity, they are two distinct parties.

If you think a 3 way debate is a FF/Lab vs FF, you don't get it.

There is only one poll that matters a damn, the general Election.

Sully · 27-01-2011 1:54pm

For the love of god can we not drag another topic into an 'Is Kenny a good leader?' debate? Far to many of them on these forums.

Tbh, im stunned Labour are bashing FG for this. They also only want a three way debate. Gormley has been party leader of a former government party. SF are riding high in polls and an elected opposition party.

You can't include everyone, but main players should be. Good call by Kenny.

27-01-2011 1:55pm

d'Oracle wrote: »

Cos you say so?
:rolleyes:

I have seen it said before.
The Experts who have been observing politics and elections for donkeys years are not writing FF off. Who are you that you know better?

A 3 way debate is just that.
There is no main contender party. FG and labour will form government if it is expedient to. They are not one entity, they are two distinct parties.

If you think a 3 way debate is a FF/Lab vs FF, you don't get it.

There is only one poll that matters a damn, the general Election.

FF won't be in gov. It would be suicide for anyone to go near them in any sort of coalition, just as it was for the greens. They simply will not be a part of the next government no matter how unpredictable you think politics can be.

I never said FG/Labour were one entity. I don't understand why you're getting so nit-picky about this. What I am saying is that the next gov will almost certainly have FG or Labour or both. And will almost certainly not have FF. So why should FF dictate the terms of the debates? Or even be involved in a three-way debate?

d'Oracle · 27-01-2011 1:59pm

Sully wrote: »

Tbh, im stunned Labour are bashing FG for this. They also only want a three way debate. Gormley has been party leader of a former government party. SF are riding high in polls and an elected opposition party.

You can't include everyone, but main players should be. Good call by Kenny.

Labour are also exposed to a surge from SF, although maybe not so much as FG.

Also Gilmore, I don't think he....erm....approves of SF as a party.
But is unwilling to say it outright for reasons political.

Biggins · 27-01-2011 2:05pm

d'Oracle wrote: »

...Also Gilmore, I don't think he....erm....approves of SF as a party.
But is unwilling to say it outright for reasons political.

I agree. I can't put my finger on it but the feeling I get from Gilmore towards Mr Adams and SF, is one of contempt (not for me to say if justified or not. Separate thread/topic anyway) but I'm guessing that Mr Gilmore perhaps then does not want to get into a situation where he has to converse with Mr Adams and his party.

d'Oracle · 27-01-2011 2:09pm

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

FF won't be in gov. It would be suicide for anyone to go near them in any sort of coalition, just as it was for the greens. They simply will not be a part of the next government no matter how unpredictable you think politics can be.

That is pretty laughable justification. It would be the opposite of suicide to go into coalition with FF. If you could form a coalition with them after the Ballot, then you would be in government. Which is basically the point of the thing. Ergo not suicide. Every party lives for the election. The election after that is of no consequence if you can get in.

The greens just had the most fruitful and effective period of their entire existance. And if they fail to get any seats they have left an indelible mark for their partys ethos and agenda on the nation. Lest we forget, the greens were total critics of FF before the 2007 election.

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

I never said FG/Labour were one entity. I don't understand why you're getting so nit-picky about this. What I am saying is that the next gov will almost certainly have FG or Labour or both. And will almost certainly not have FF. So why should FF dictate the terms of the debates? Or even be involved in a three-way debate?

You are speculating. The thing is your point is built on something that you cannot know. You are looking at silly polls now and what you think will happen in the future.

I am looking at strength of candidates and the history of elections in the islands. Your statement that "FF will not be in the next gov" is speculative and probably a little hyperbolic.

FF aren't dictating the terms. The networks who set the debates are.
FF should be in a 3 way debate because they are one of the two biggest parties. BY FAR.

It would be anti-democratic to not include any of the 3 largest parties in a 3 way debate. Anti-democratic and pointless.

cancercowboy · 27-01-2011 2:26pm

Biggins wrote: »

I would but - with the greatest of respect - those are separate issues not in line with the theme of this thread.
My own feelings on Kenny have been expressed already in other threads many times anyway.

So could you give me a link?

flash1080 · 27-01-2011 2:32pm

So Enda wants more leaders at the debate so there will be less focus on him, he's afraid of going head-to-head with Martin and Gilmore. Enda and FG are pathetic. I'm surprised Enda is willing to debate at all, I thought he would stay in hiding until after the election.

Biggins · 27-01-2011 2:36pm

cancercowboy wrote: »

So could you give me a link?

Use the search function (advanced search) to locate "Enda Kenny" + "Biggins" and you should be able to find my usual waffling somewhere.

cancercowboy · 27-01-2011 2:40pm

flash1080 wrote: »

So Enda wants more leaders at the debate so there will be less focus on him, he's afraid of going head-to-head with Martin and Gilmore. Enda and FG are pathetic. I'm surprised Enda is willing to debate at all, I thought he would stay in hiding until after the election.

Says you. He is not afraid of going "head to head" with anyone. He goes "head to head" every day he speaks in the Dáil. The fact is Sinn Féin are more of an oponent than Fianna Fáil are.

cancercowboy · 27-01-2011 2:41pm

Biggins wrote: »

Use the search function (advanced search) to locate "Enda Kenny" + "Biggins" and you should be able to find my usual waffling somewhere.

Sounds like a lot of effort to be honest. You've done so much time ducking the question you could have just replied.

Biggins · 27-01-2011 2:44pm

cancercowboy wrote: »

Sounds like a lot of effort to be honest. You've done so much time ducking the question you could have just replied.

I respect the forum I'm in. Its not an "After Hours" lighter tone section so I don't wish to sidetrack the thread topic nor annoy the mods.
I hope you can respect that too.

flash1080 · 27-01-2011 2:45pm

cancercowboy wrote: »

Says you. He is not afraid of going "head to head" with anyone. He goes "head to head" every day he speaks in the Dáil. The fact is Sinn Féin are more of an oponent than Fianna Fáil are.

Says me and a lot of people. Most people think Enda has gone to ground, he's staying out of the spotlight, it's not what people expect or want to see from a man who could become the leader of our country. The other two would wipe the floor with him in a 3-way debate, but there's far less focus on him in a 5-way.

cancercowboy · 27-01-2011 2:45pm

Biggins wrote: »

I respect the forum I'm in. Its not an "After Hours" lighter tone section so I don't wish to sidetrack the thread topic nor annoy the mods.
I hope you can respect that too.

Sorry, the topic is about Enda Kenny so it's relevant. I should know, being as I started it and all. Sounds like waffle to me

opinion guy · 27-01-2011 2:51pm

All this talk of 3-ways and 5ways is making me blush....:o

Hmmm and after I ahd written Kenny off as a gombeen he comes out and says something very sensible like this......I'm conflicted to be honest.

Very interesting the press spin on this. I hope whoever wins the election instigates some reform in Donnybrook

Biggins · 27-01-2011 2:52pm

cancercowboy wrote: »

Sorry, the topic is about Enda Kenny so it's relevant. I should know, being as I started it and all. Sounds like waffle to me

This is dragging the debate topic off course.
We could start debating Enda's qualities in a tit for tat never ending round of debate - but THIS current thread is directly about THE DEBATES.
That topic (Enda qualities) has been approached many a time previously and I'm sure will be again - but at least I hope in a separate dedicated thread.
If you can't find one, I'm sure one more new one might be welcomed.

Its not for me to drag a thread off topic and right now by your insisting we just arrow in on the topic of Enda's qualities, I'm aiding and abetting that mis-direction - so I'm shutting up about that OTHER issue, in this particular thread.

(LOL - Just noticed, you got my 19,000 post!)

cancercowboy · 27-01-2011 2:55pm

flash1080 wrote: »

Says me and a lot of people. Most people think Enda has gone to ground, he's staying out of the spotlight, it's not what people expect or want to see from a man who could become the leader of our country. The other two would wipe the floor with him in a 3-way debate, but there's far less focus on him in a 5-way.

Says you and RTÉ. Try a bit of independent thought once and a while. Like I said before he has plenty of reasons for not engaging with RTÉ. He is in the Dail everyday. He's on FineGaelMedia's site on youtube. He's making public statements nearly everyday if you don't pay attention, that's not his fault.

As far as a 5 way debate goes, you don't know that there will be less focus on him whatsoever. The debate could run for 2 or more hours feasbily everyone would get plenty of camera time.

Maybe the real story here is that Micheál Martin is too chicken **** to be in the same room, on TV, with Enda Kenny, Eamon Gilmore and Gerry Adams?

darragh16 · 27-01-2011 2:59pm

Why don't they have a six-way debate then?

flash1080 · 27-01-2011 3:01pm

cancercowboy wrote: »

Says you and RTÉ. Try a bit of independent thought once and a while. Like I said before he has plenty of reasons for not engaging with RTÉ. He is in the Dail everyday. He's on FineGaelMedia's site on youtube. He's making public statements nearly everyday if you don't pay attention, that's not his fault.

As far as a 5 way debate goes, you don't know that there will be less focus on him whatsoever. The debate could run for 2 or more hours feasbily everyone would get plenty of camera time.

Maybe the real story here is that Micheál Martin is too chicken **** to be in the same room, on TV, with Enda Kenny, Eamon Gilmore and Gerry Adams?

Says me and a lot of people who think independently. :rolleyes:

Other politicians are in the Dáil every day, and they manage to have far better public profiles than Enda.

How many prospective voters will search for Fine Gaels youtube page compared to watching the news on tv, or reading the newspaper, or reading the news online? Enda and FG must be completely stupid if they think having a youtube page is enough.

Of course there will be less focus on him in a five way debate. 5 > 3, more distractions and less time on Enda.

Martin has called Enda out for the 3-way debate, so he's obviously not afraid of being in the same room as him. :rolleyes:

cancercowboy · 27-01-2011 3:03pm

darragh16 wrote: »

Why don't they have a six-way debate then?

Speaking in Dublin, Deputy Kenny said he will not exclude political leaders from any televised election debate.

So if the ULA have a leader put him forward.

cancercowboy · 27-01-2011 3:04pm

flash1080 wrote: »

Says me and a lot of people who think independently. :rolleyes:

Other politicians are in the Dáil every day, and they manage to have far better public profiles than Enda.

How many prospective voters will search for Fine Gaels youtube page compared to watching the news on tv, or reading the newspaper, or reading the news online? Enda and FG must be completely stupid if they think having a youtube page is enough.

Of course there will be less focus on him in a five way debate. 5 > 3, more distractions and less time on Enda.

Martin has called Enda out for the 3-way debate, so he's obviously not afraid of being in the same room as him. :rolleyes:

But he is afraid of being in the same room as Gerry Adams in addition.

You're a broken record to be honest. He makes a statment today and you say "where is he".

Manach · 27-01-2011 3:07pm

In the interests of compromise and to appeal to to-day's youth, I propose a 5-way deathmatch.

Enda Kenny wants 5 way election debate

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