3 New Navy Vessels for Irish Naval Service

roadmaster

I wonder with the manpower issue would they think outside the box. They have already used the reserves so how about talking to them and there employers about a 12 month call up to help with the crisis. I am sure plenty of reservists would be interested. They would just need the government to work a deal with there employers so they have a job to go back to

jonnybigwallet

I've been reading reports in various Devon media that Appledore may be facing closure now that the P64 has been handed over and that the hoped for follow on contract for an OPV for Malta has, apparently gone to an Italian shipyard.

sparky42

jonnybigwallet wrote: »

I've been reading reports in various Devon media that Appledore may be facing closure now that the P64 has been handed over and that the hoped for follow on contract for an OPV for Malta has, apparently gone to an Italian shipyard.

Wouldn't be surprised, the Type 31 order even if they won it is still a year away at best, and the Italians have been working with Malta for some time refitting their current hulls. Why do you think we got such a deal for Shaw?

roadmaster

sparky42 wrote: »

Wouldn't be surprised, the Type 31 order even if they won it is still a year away at best, and the Italians have been working with Malta for some time refitting their current hulls. Why do you think we got such a deal for Shaw?

Only for Brexit I would say we would be getting two more Beckett’s to replace Ciara and orla, We would have being able to get a good deal as they would be on there knees begging for the work. Is there much life left in the peacocks ?

sparky42

roadmaster wrote: »

Only for Brexit I would say we would be getting two more Beckett’s to replace Ciara and orla, We would have being able to get a good deal as they would be on there knees begging for the work. Is there much life left in the peacocks ?

Yeah I'd say Babcock would give anything for another order, as for the Peacocks, I'd say there's enough in them for as long as we keep them, I mean one of them has been laid up pretty much all year. As to what replaces them is another question.

jonnybigwallet

Further to my earlier post....I see that UK edition of the Sunday Times has a half page article on the first page of the business and money section saying that Appledore may be facing immanent closure.

salmocab

For someone with nothing more than a passing interest in our navy could someone put up whatvships we currently have and the ages of the older ships, also if possible what the older ones are used for that the 60s can’t do (not sure if calling them the 60s is correct). Cheers

sparky42

jonnybigwallet wrote: »

Further to my earlier post....I see that UK edition of the Sunday Times has a half page article on the first page of the business and money section saying that Appledore may be facing immanent closure.

Again, I'd bet that's Type 31 related given how that's been handled, ie "give us the contract or the yard goes under".

sparky42

salmocab wrote: »

For someone with nothing more than a passing interest in our navy could someone put up whatvships we currently have and the ages of the older ships, also if possible what the older ones are used for that the 60s can’t do (not sure if calling them the 60s is correct). Cheers

We currently have
2 Ex RN Peacock class ships, Orla and Ciara both are around 34 years old.
1 Eithne class same age roughly.
2 P50 class, Roisin and Niamh, 19 and 17 years old.
4 P60 class, Beckett, Joyce, Yeats and Shaw.


The Peacocks are used for closer inshore operations, how much of that is needed now is another question. They are penciled in to be replaced by an unknown design that would also have some anti-ied capability. Eithne meanwhile is meant to be next up for replacement though there's still no clue as to what the design will be.

jonnybigwallet

I would have thought that if babcocks could put a 10 metre stretch section into the P60 design that that would fulfill the NS wish list. It could accomodate a helideck, a modular set up to serve as a hospital and resupply capability to overseas deployments and armament could be beefed up a bit as well with a small battery of AS and AA missiles and a 5 inch gun. Wpuld make a decent flagship which would have some reasonable war foghting capability ...and could be acquired fairly cheaply!

ohnonotgmail

jonnybigwallet wrote: »

I would have thought that if babcocks could put a 10 metre stretch section into the P60 design that that would fulfill the NS wish list. It could accomodate a helideck, a modular set up to serve as a hospital and resupply capability to overseas deployments and armament could be beefed up a bit as well with a small battery of AS and AA missiles and a 5 inch gun. Wpuld make a decent flagship which would have some reasonable war foghting capability ...and could be acquired fairly cheaply!

So AS and AA missiles, a 5 inch gun and space for a heli. Basically you want an arleigh burke class destroyer. I dont think the government is considering spending nearly 2BN.

sparky42

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

So AS and AA missiles, a 5 inch gun and space for a heli. Basically you want an arleigh burke class destroyer. I dont think the government is considering spending nearly 2BN.

To be fair, not really. If you go European something like the Absalon would fit that spec and be no more than a quarter of that, most likely under 400 million. If you went Asian (ROK for example) most likely even cheaper than that, but yeah most likely not what the Government is thinking.

ohnonotgmail

sparky42 wrote: »

To be fair, not really. If you go European something like the Absalon would fit that spec and be no more than a quarter of that, most likely under 400 million. If you went Asian (ROK for example) most likely even cheaper than that, but yeah most likely not what the Government is thinking.

Even 400m million is 5 times the cost of the 60's.

Yawlboy

jonnybigwallet wrote: »

I would have thought that if babcocks could put a 10 metre stretch section into the P60 design that that would fulfill the NS wish list. It could accomodate a helideck, a modular set up to serve as a hospital and resupply capability to overseas deployments and armament could be beefed up a bit as well with a small battery of AS and AA missiles and a 5 inch gun. Wpuld make a decent flagship which would have some reasonable war foghting capability ...and could be acquired fairly cheaply!

Eithne has a 57mm gun and is the current flagship so a 76mm OTO will be fine I think. We have no intention of fighting a war so I don't think any missiles will be needed. Adding another 10m and 100's of tons would require major reengineering, bigger engines etc. but overall I think this isnt a bad idea.

I also think we should replace the Peacocks with Minesweepers. I assume there are plenty of off the shelf designs to choose from there.

jonnybigwallet

I wasn't suggesting something in the Arleigh Burke class. The AB's are approx 155m long, over 8k tons, have a crew of 276 and are packed full of the latest and most powerful missiles and electronics. I was proposing something a bit less beefy than the Absalon. A ship which could transport a company of soldiers and could fill the role of a hospital ship for humanitarian roles. Bear in mind that the Peacocks which ended up with the Philippines navy are equipped with missiles. I'm not suggesting cruise missiles...just some basic air defence and anti ship capability. The Absalon has two forward facing guns. A five inch and something a bit smaller. Babcocks would cut a killer deal to get another order from the NS just to keep the yard ticking over pending the type 31.

ohnonotgmail

The absolons are 200M+ exclusing weapons. That is a big step up from the 60's.

jonnybigwallet

I though the eu pays for the hulls?

sparky42

jonnybigwallet wrote: »

I though the eu pays for the hulls?

No.

jonnybigwallet

Cheers bud. You live and learn. I though that as the NS is looking after approx 28% of EU water that they got a subvention.

Heraldoffreeent

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

The absolons are 200M+ exclusing weapons. That is a big step up from the 60's.

So?
The MRV is slated at €200m, Length 120+ metres.

Which is why a few Navel bods flew to NZland to take a close look at HMNZS Canterbury.

sparky42

Heraldoffreeent wrote: »

So?
The MRV is slated at €200m, Length 120+ metres.

Which is why a few Navel bods flew to NZland to take a close look at HMNZS Canterbury.

Well lets hope that we avoid her design given the issues that the RNZN had with her.

Markcheese

I assume it's the Róisín and niamh that are heading into their midlife refits (no idea where theyre going), I heard that at least 1ship has been stripped of all things military...

jonnybigwallet

No. Its the older ones that are due 5he chop im a bit.

sparky42

Markcheese wrote: »

I assume it's the Róisín and niamh that are heading into their midlife refits (no idea where theyre going), I heard that at least 1ship has been stripped of all things military...

Yeah it's the P50's that are getting MLU's, as to where, I suppose it depends on how much work is being done on them, think Eithne's was done in Cobh. One of the Peacocks is pretty much laid up in the base from manpower shortages but I haven't heard anything of her being stripped (unless the other needs the parts).

roadmaster

As you mentioned parts I wonder if they parked up a peacock would it’s parts keep its sister going until the replacement vessels arrived? It might also help with the crew issue along with the other two ships taking turns for there refits ., they might get them selfs enough time to build up crews for when we again have a 9 ship navy and the new eithne

Leonidas BL

jonnybigwallet wrote: »

I wasn't suggesting something in the Arleigh Burke class. The AB's are approx 155m long, over 8k tons, have a crew of 276 and are packed full of the latest and most powerful missiles and electronics. I was proposing something a bit less beefy than the Absalon. A ship which could transport a company of soldiers and could fill the role of a hospital ship for humanitarian roles. Bear in mind that the Peacocks which ended up with the Philippines navy are equipped with missiles. I'm not suggesting cruise missiles...just some basic air defence and anti ship capability. The Absalon has two forward facing guns. A five inch and something a bit smaller. Babcocks would cut a killer deal to get another order from the NS just to keep the yard ticking over pending the type 31.

Something like this?

https://www.janes.com/article/83961/euronaval-2018-thales-pitches-ns50-dual-axis-multibeam-radar-to-small-warship-support-vessel-market
https://www.mbda-systems.com/product/simbad-rc/

jonnybigwallet

That looks like it would hit the right spot all right!

Larbre34

I agree, whatever EPV is eventually procured, i think it would be crazy not to spec some tried and tested NATO standard AS and AA missile system. If this vessel is to meet its requirements, i.e. multirole, autonomous blue water deployment, EUNAVFOR anti piracy operations, PESCO / PfP actions, UN deployment support, then its a fairly basic defensive system for the modern world.

They might as well put the fancy fire control system first specced on the 60s to good use!

Yawlboy

Talking to a serving member, with over 30 years service, last night he said things are really bad there now. 100 people invited for medicals for recruits only 14 turned up. 160 people have left this year so far. They have enough people to properly crew 5 of the 9 ships. There are stories going around that the army brass are proposing selling off some of the ships and diverting funds to the army.

Wolf219

Maybe the naval service should thing of having small bases in Dublin or Galway. Might appeal to young lads living in them cities.