3 New Navy Vessels for Irish Naval Service

sparky42

I see that Joyce was doing some RAS exercises/maneuvers with one of the German supply ships, still think if we are talking about moving to UN/EU naval operations something like a RAS would be a good hull to have as an option. We aren't going to pay for anything like a "full up Frigate" that could handle potential threats, however a supply ship would be welcomed by any taskforce.

jonnybigwallet

Most of thse type of vessels seem to weigh in at about 25000 tons. Not really affordable

pilatus

jonnybigwallet wrote: »

Most of thse type of vessels seem to weigh in at about 25000 tons. Not really affordable

You have to cut your cloth to fit. The 25000 ton ships are servicing different types of ships such as destroyers, cruisers, amphibious support ships, carriers and so on. Something like the German Elbe class could be a good starting point. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elbe-class_replenishment_ship

jonnybigwallet

Thanks for that post Pilatus. Can't help thinkin a cheap frigate might be a better idea.

sparky42

pilatus wrote: »

You have to cut your cloth to fit. The 25000 ton ships are servicing different types of ships such as destroyers, cruisers, amphibious support ships, carriers and so on. Something like the German Elbe class could be a good starting point. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elbe-class_replenishment_ship

Exactly, it's small but I can't imagine it being turned down, or the Supply variant of the Crossover design, or the small class the Italians are retiring over the next couple of years.

As I've said elsewhere, yeah there's costs and usage issues, but we should look at building up hardware that could be of use for multinational operations, much more than an OPV.

sparky42

jonnybigwallet wrote: »

Thanks for that post Pilatus. Can't help thinkin a cheap frigate might be a better idea.

Why? Even if you take the bare bones type 31 that’s going to be expensive for very little capability, particularly since we’d only be buying one.

jonnybigwallet

Why spend money on a ship which is not needed in the territorial waters? Why spend money to support richer nations in the med? Better idea IMO is to buy a cheapish frigate class ship and use it at home and maybe expend the role of the navy to take part in anti piracy exercises in foreign parts.

sparky42

jonnybigwallet wrote: »

Why spend money on a ship which is not needed in the territorial waters? Why spend money to support richer nations in the med? Better idea IMO is to buy a cheapish frigate class ship and use it at home and maybe expend the role of the navy to take part in anti piracy exercises in foreign parts.

Because we don’t need any frigate capabilities in our home waters, moreover again 1 ship is pointless, just as Eithne never reached the full potential compared to her planned 3 ship class. As to why you seem to contradict yourself, why build something for med operations and then you are talking about piracy operations. A RAS hull as part of a task force is more valuable than a half arsed frigate lacking in major systems for a joint operation and its areas like that that we should concentrate on imo.

mikeym

The Department need to address retention issues or else there will be nobody to crew these fancy new multi role vessels in the future

sparky42

mikeym wrote: »

The Department need to address retention issues or else there will be nobody to crew these fancy new multi role vessels in the future

That goes without saying and isn't just limited to the NS, but that's from the main budget which has to be increased in order to deal with it. I'm just concerned that the 150 million or so we're talking about for the EPV isn't going to buy us anything that's going to bring anything to the table for joint operations, given it's likely to be the single most expensive buy there should be more debate as to what the likely 35-40 years of operations are going to be.

jonnybigwallet

Mike. Exactly the point I made a few posts back and got a sarky response to.

jonnybigwallet

Mike. Exactly the point I made a few posts back and got a sarky response to.

sparky42

Shaw's out and about off Appledore wonder if she's going to be heading over here?

Tabnabs

New OPVs for the Australian's. German design and built in Australia.

First steel was cut for the first of Australia’s 12 offshore patrol vessels at Civmec’s facility in Western Australia on Wednesday. The lead vessel is planned to planned to enter service in 2021.

The new vessels will have a displacement of 1,700 tons, length of 80 meters and speed of 22 knots. They will undertake maritime patrol and response duties, and will accommodate up to 60 personnel, including a crew of around 40 Navy personnel. Along with the ability to accept modular mission packs such as unmanned aerial systems, command and communication systems on board will allow the vessels to operate alongside Australian Border Force vessels, other Australian Defence Force units and other regional partners. They will replace Australia’s current Armidale class and Cape class patrol boats, Huon class coastal minehunters and Leeuwin class survey ships.

The vessels will be built in Australia by German shipbuilder, Lürssen's subsidiary, Luerssen Australia partnering with Australian shipbuilder, Civmec in the joint venture, Australian Maritime Shipbuilding & Export Group (AMSEG). The vessels are based on the PV80 design, with the first two vessels to be built at ASC's Osborne shipyard in South Australia before production moves to Civmec's Henderson ship yard in Western Australia.

The contract with Lürssen to lead the design and build is worth at least A$3 billion ($2.1 billion) for the 12 vessels. The vessels will be delivered by Australian workers, in Australian shipyards using Australian steel. The project will create around 1,000 jobs - 400 direct and a further 600 in the supply chain.

https://www.maritime-executive.com/article/first-steel-cut-for-australia-s-offshore-patrol-vessels

roadmaster

Reading some articles in the papers yesterday after apparently the min 72hr call ups got cancelled and then reversed. Was there threats of mass resignations and that’s why it was reveresed so quick?

jonnybigwallet

Might have been an outbreak of "Mutiny on the Bantry"

Tabnabs

jonnybigwallet wrote: »

Might have been an outbreak of "Mutiny on the Bantry"

Not the first time a navy had to strike over pay issues.

http://military.wikia.com/wiki/Invergordon_Mutiny

Larbre34

Budget 2019 increases spending to €994m, an increase of 5%

Additional €30m for capital equipment replacement, upgrade and accommodation. Balance goes on public pay deal increases and pensions provision.

Presumably this will finish out the P60 programme payments, pay some of the PC-12NG bill, depending on staged delivery of assets and ancillaries. Maybe start design and procurement on the EPV and CASA replacement.

jonnybigwallet

Thanks for posting Larbre. I may be wrong but I think that figure is over 3 years? Pressure is on to sort out pay and salaries as well of course and buid some decent accommodation at the naval base. We won't be seeing any Typhoons streaking over the horizon for the time being!

Larbre34

The payments for the PC-12s are over 3 years? Yes.

The 30m additional appears to be for cap expend in a single lw year.

sparky42

Larbre34 wrote: »

The payments for the PC-12s are over 3 years? Yes.

The 30m additional appears to be for cap expend in a single lw year.

Given that the CASA program has already started it's process it could be to start paying a part of that?

sparky42

Shaw could be on the way over with ship tracker having her AIS off Cork:
https://www.vesselfinder.com/?imo=9814519

Larbre34

sparky42 wrote: »

Shaw could be on the way over with ship tracker having her AIS off Cork:
https://www.vesselfinder.com/?imo=9814519

Well, wherever she's going she'd better get there, I don't think Storm Callum is on the sea trial inventory.

sparky42

Larbre34 wrote: »

Well, wherever she's going she'd better get there, I don't think Storm Callum is on the sea trial inventory.

She docked at the base at about 8.30 so at least that's sorted, now on to the rest of the issues I suppose.

Larbre34

Pics available of GBS alongside on the NS facebook. She is due to begin fitting of her comms and weapons systems.

Despite the lack of crew, shall we have 9 ships commissioned at the same time, for the first time ever?

jonnybigwallet

Can't understand why they didn't let the shipbuilders finish the job off. Hope they don't make a bleedin horlicks of it!

deRanged

roadmaster

We it say it takes 7 weeks to get the comms and weapons fitted, what happens then? Are they going to park up a ship to crew the shaw? Any sign of the main gun in cork or is it coming of a peacock?

sparky42

jonnybigwallet wrote: »

Can't understand why they didn't let the shipbuilders finish the job off. Hope they don't make a bleedin horlicks of it!

Given the mount is new and undergoing acceptance here it could just be that the timelines for accepting it and fitting it just didn't line up.


More over this isn't the first time we've done this.

sparky42

roadmaster wrote: »

We it say it takes 7 weeks to get the comms and weapons fitted, what happens then? Are they going to park up a ship to crew the shaw? Any sign of the main gun in cork or is it coming of a peacock?

Given she's had to have a crew to work up I'd say we might see her being worked up fully while the Peacocks remain dock queens. As to the 76mm a reply from the Facebook Navy post that it's actually a new gun to the Navy and is undergoing acceptance here.