3 New Navy Vessels for Irish Naval Service

roadmaster · 14-08-2018 7:32pm

sparky42 wrote: »

Looking at the tender, there's not much competition, it's going to be the 295, which means we aren't going to see them until 2021/22 at best given current order book for them. For the EPV I'd say you are likely looking at around the same period at this stage, given the timescale of a design and build, at which point I'd say the payments will be overlapping. And of course there's the political capital costs, with a short time left in the Government lifespan I doubt they will go with both orders, CASA will happen, while EPV might wait until next Government.

Will the EPV be a proven design already in use or will it be essentially a chassis which is a proven design but fitted out to our needs

sparky42 · 14-08-2018 9:05pm

roadmaster wrote: »

Will the EPV be a proven design already in use or will it be essentially a chassis which is a proven design but fitted out to our needs

That's the question isn't it? For what we reportedly have a budget for I can't think of anything that fits the bill off the shelf, maybe if we'd gone with a bare bones Absalon back in 2008 it could have come at that. Now though?

Markcheese · 15-08-2018 12:22pm

What do we want the epv to do?
And so what size (length,beam, draft) does it need to be... And most importantly where do we want it to go... Small ports, harbours and bays around the coast? Or something that'll handle the worst of the Atlantic?

sparky42 · 15-08-2018 1:47pm

Markcheese wrote: »

What do we want the epv to do?
And so what size (length,beam, draft) does it need to be... And most importantly where do we want it to go... Small ports, harbours and bays around the coast? Or something that'll handle the worst of the Atlantic?

We already know most of that from the 08 work.

Markcheese · 15-08-2018 1:51pm

sparky42 wrote: »

We already know most of that from the 08 work.

Is that available? Or would someone have an idiots summary?
But either way that'll decide what the navy want... And the available budget will decide what they get...

angiogoir · 15-08-2018 1:51pm

We have to keep the Med taxi service going somehow.

roadmaster · 15-08-2018 2:45pm

Would the Tender Notice below suggest Eithne is not going anywhere any day soon?

https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publicpurchase_frameset.asp?PID=133803&B=ETENDERS_SIMPLE&PS=1&PP=ctm/Supplier/publictenders

sparky42 · 15-08-2018 3:38pm

angiogoir wrote: »

We have to keep the Med taxi service going somehow.

Funny boy:rolleyes:

sparky42 · 15-08-2018 3:40pm

roadmaster wrote: »

Would the Tender Notice below suggest Eithne is not going anywhere any day soon?

https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publicpurchase_frameset.asp?PID=133803&B=ETENDERS_SIMPLE&PS=1&PP=ctm/Supplier/publictenders

Just general maintenance, she was in for her yearly work over the last couple of weeks, most likely it came from this. Though even if tomorrow the contract was announced we're still talking a couple of years at best for her.

sparky42 · 15-08-2018 3:42pm

Markcheese wrote: »

Is that available? Or would someone have an idiots summary?
But either way that'll decide what the navy want... And the available budget will decide what they get...

Larger ship than the P60's, helicopter capable and meant to be able to carry "some" army units for International operations. Originally meant for far Atlantic patrols but now that we've moved to out of EEZ operations who knows.

roadmaster · 15-08-2018 4:01pm

Has it being even discussed how much of an extension of the EEZ when the british leave.

sparky42 · 15-08-2018 4:30pm

roadmaster wrote: »

Has it being even discussed how much of an extension of the EEZ when the british leave.

Don't think the EEZ will change at all when they are out of the EU, they will still hold their current zones as they aren't connected to EU membership, now as to what level of changes might be needed for patrols, that's different and I suppose depends on how the fishing rights gets worked out.

It's not impossible that we'll end up having to increase operations in the Irish Sea and around NI for example.

roadmaster · 15-08-2018 5:19pm

sparky42 wrote: »

Don't think the EEZ will change at all when they are out of the EU, they will still hold their current zones as they aren't connected to EU membership, now as to what level of changes might be needed for patrols, that's different and I suppose depends on how the fishing rights gets worked out.

It's not impossible that we'll end up having to increase operations in the Irish Sea and around NI for example.

I am nearly sure the EEZ and the eu are connected. When we joined the then EEC our EEZ more than doubled and we got new ships because of that

ohnonotgmail · 15-08-2018 5:21pm

roadmaster wrote: »

I am nearly sure the EEZ and the eu are connected. When we joined the then EEC our EEZ more than doubled and we got new ships because of that

The EEZ is a UN concept not an EU one.

roadmaster · 15-08-2018 5:37pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

The EEZ is a UN concept not an EU one.

https://ec.europa.eu/ireland/news/key-eu-policy-areas/fisheries_en

This is taken from the above website

That changed in 1976, when the Irish Marine EEZ was extended from 12 to 200 miles, and the EU paid for four new fisheries protection vessels - the LÉ Deirdre, the Emer, the Aoife and the Aisling – so we could patrol our own waters.

The EEZ may be UN but the EU had a role for our increase in waters

sparky42 · 15-08-2018 5:40pm

roadmaster wrote: »

https://ec.europa.eu/ireland/news/key-eu-policy-areas/fisheries_en

I'm not sure what your point is with the CFP, the EEZ is a UN creation:
https://stats.oecd.org/glossary/detail.asp?ID=884

I think when we joined the EEC the main change was that we were told that we were expected to actually make an attempt to control it, hence the EEC funding the P20's.

The EEZ did expand when we availed of the new UN laws of the Sea which was one of the original causes for the EPV design. Again though the UK will hold all of their EEZ areas post Brexit just as every other nation outside the EU has EEZ's (think the Cod Wars for example).

roadmaster · 15-08-2018 5:48pm

sparky42 wrote: »

I'm not sure what your point is with the CFP, the EEZ is a UN creation:
https://stats.oecd.org/glossary/detail.asp?ID=884

I think when we joined the EEC the main change was that we were told that we were expected to actually make an attempt to control it, hence the EEC funding the P20's.

The EEZ did expand when we availed of the new UN laws of the Sea which was one of the original causes for the EPV design. Again though the UK will hold all of their EEZ areas post Brexit just as every other nation outside the EU has EEZ's (think the Cod Wars for example).

Think i am adding 2 +2 together and getting 5!

jonnybigwallet · 15-08-2018 7:38pm

The new ship needs to be able to accommodate a company of soldiers, carry a helicopter and have a small hospital on boatd.

jonnybigwallet · 15-08-2018 7:42pm

Board...sorry for typo.

roadmaster · 16-08-2018 1:24pm

I wonder with the price that is being floated for the EPV could we end up with some form of a Beckett on steroids. Dont the New Zealand Navy have a HPV thats based on either the Beckett or Rosin?

sparky42 · 16-08-2018 1:26pm

roadmaster wrote: »

I wonder with the price that is being floated for the EPV could we end up with some form of a Beckett on steroids. Dont the New Zealand Navy have a HPV thats based on either the Beckett or Rosin?

The NZ HPV's come from the same design basis as the Rosin's (the STX design), the Becketts are another variant of them, however the Navy did look at one of the other variants (the Trinidad one I think) and didn't like the level of compromise that was needed to get a helicopter capability on that size of a hull.

It's still one of those "who knows" areas that isn't going to be cleared up until the Tender is finally out.

roadmaster · 16-08-2018 1:31pm

On Google maps satellite view you can see one of the naval ships in drydock in cork. Does the navy have to book that or is it down to who ever wins the tender for repairs to source a drydock?

sparky42 · 16-08-2018 2:48pm

roadmaster wrote: »

On Google maps satellite view you can see one of the naval ships in drydock in cork. Does the navy have to book that or is it down to who ever wins the tender for repairs to source a drydock?

They do all the work in the Cobh yard and book it as far as I know, which is another one of those issues for the EPV, the opening size of the Dock, the Absalon for example has just a foot or so clearance to get in to it.

Heraldoffreeent · 16-08-2018 7:29pm

sparky42 wrote: »

The NZ HPV's come from the same design basis as the Rosin's (the STX design), the Becketts are another variant of them, however the Navy did look at one of the other variants (the Trinidad one I think) and didn't like the level of compromise that was needed to get a helicopter capability on that size of a hull.

It's still one of those "who knows" areas that isn't going to be cleared up until the Tender is finally out.

Aren't the Trinidads derived from the RN Rivers?

sparky42 · 16-08-2018 7:44pm

Heraldoffreeent wrote: »

Aren't the Trinidads derived from the RN Rivers?

Yeah got the nation wrong, it's the Mauritian variant the Vigilant, the Navy took a look at her back when they were working on the P60 design but had concerns. And since then the Vigilant has been sold off due to repeated issues.

Heraldoffreeent · 16-08-2018 7:57pm

sparky42 wrote: »

Yeah got the nation wrong, it's the Mauritian variant the Vigilant, the Navy took a look at her back when they were working on the P60 design but had concerns. And since then the Vigilant has been sold off due to repeated issues.

Jayziz, the Vigilant, last I heard of her, she was rusting away in some dock somewhere...............

Built by GRSE incidentally...........

Edit:Actually I'm wrong. It was Asmar of Chile.

jonnybigwallet · 17-08-2018 3:31pm

Off topic I know...but isn't a bleedin discrace what the gov is paying the DF to act as event stewards for the pope? Wouldn't blame them if they mutinied. Total humiliation when the guards are gettin about 30 euros an hour bonus on top of an already decent basic wage.

Leonidas BL · 17-08-2018 6:42pm

I see the Type 31 competition has being restarted...

https://www.defensenews.com/naval/2018/08/17/uk-restarts-frigate-competition-but-will-anyone-take-part/

Larbre34 · 17-08-2018 9:30pm

Leonidas BL wrote: »

I see the Type 31 competition has being restarted...

https://www.defensenews.com/naval/2018/08/17/uk-restarts-frigate-competition-but-will-anyone-take-part/

What a mess. They want it built to a price, by local yards, that aren't BAe. If done after Brexit, the materials costs might be so prohibitive that there could be no margin in it for a joint venture of smaller providers with less in-house capacity. They might as well specify it be built on Mars, I don't think there will be any interest.

Imagine they had to get them off the shelf on the Continent, that would be deliciously ironic.

roundymac · 17-08-2018 9:58pm

jonnybigwallet wrote: »

Off topic I know...but isn't a bleedin discrace what the gov is paying the DF to act as event stewards for the pope? Wouldn't blame them if they mutinied. Total humiliation when the guards are gettin about 30 euros an hour bonus on top of an already decent basic wage.

Your right,,,,off topic.:eek:

3 New Navy Vessels for Irish Naval Service

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