3 New Navy Vessels for Irish Naval Service

goldie fish

Markcheese wrote: »

Was kind of wondering the same , if you have 3 on patrol,1 coming off patrol / swapping over crew, 1 in reserve and 1 on refit /maintenance , what are the other two doing ?
Or is it something to do with the age of the fleet ?

I'll put it this way.
Have you ever worked shiftwork?
If you have, and you are in a team of 3, do you go home from work one at the time, or does everyone change shift together?
Seriously.

pilatus

They are not at all sea for another simple reason. ..... money. The less time at sea, the more they save on fuel, the more they save on maintenance of the ships from usage while at sea and it also it means the ships will have a longer operational life as they are not being worn out as quick. It also puts of buying replacements for a while. It's the same as any other government agency and have been told to identify where money can be saved, make cutbacks and receive minimum investment.

roadmaster

goldie fish wrote: »

I'll put it this way.
Have you ever worked shiftwork?
If you have, and you are in a team of 3, do you go home from work one at the time, or does everyone change shift together?
Seriously.

In fairness now if your company is working a 3 cycle shift and its reduced to a 2 cycle yet you are producing the same results something is up. Now use that example with the navy they are producing the same result with one less ship . Maybe i am just looking at this from a wrong angle.

goldie fish

roadmaster wrote: »

In fairness now if your company is working a 3 cycle shift and its reduced to a 2 cycle yet you are producing the same results something is up. Now use that example with the navy they are producing the same result with one less ship . Maybe i am just looking at this from a wrong angle.

You are. This is what happens. Your company is working a 2 shift cycle. You need more output. Your 8 hour 2 shift cycle now becomes a 10 hour 2 shift cycle.
Its what the Gardaí did when they changed their roster.

roadmaster

goldie fish wrote: »

You are. This is what happens. Your company is working a 2 shift cycle. You need more output. Your 8 hour 2 shift cycle now becomes a 10 hour 2 shift cycle.
Its what the Gardaí did when they changed their roster.

So will the navy stay like this when the new ship arrives and have more days at sea?

Stovepipe

the thing is, as more ships arrive at pension age, more replacements will be needed, so these new units will arrive just in time for the next pair to be wanted.You could see a in-reality-4 to 6-ship Navy for quite a while.

regards
Stovepipe

Leonidas BL

MRnotlob606 wrote: »

i applied to join the navy reserve, never got a call back...

Try again...

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057045711

goldie fish

roadmaster wrote: »

So will the navy stay like this when the new ship arrives and have more days at sea?

That's down to Dept of Finance. The McCarthy report reduced the amount of patrol days that the NS needed to carry out.

goldie fish

Stovepipe wrote: »

the thing is, as more ships arrive at pension age, more replacements will be needed, so these new units will arrive just in time for the next pair to be wanted.You could see a in-reality-4 to 6-ship Navy for quite a while.

regards
Stovepipe

A backward step that is very difficult to recover from. I predict short term leasing of vessels in the interim, as was done while the P 21 ships were being built in the 70s.

We have not dropped below a 6 ship fleet since 1976. The Darkest moment in the History of the NS was a period in possibly 1971 when the only Irish Naval presence, was a lone armed officer, aboard a Department of Fisheries launch, the Cú Feasa. This situation must never be repeated.

nowecant

goldie fish wrote: »

A backward step that is very difficult to recover from. I predict short term leasing of vessels in the interim, as was done while the P 21 ships were being built in the 70s.

If they exercise the option on the third ship and even commission a forth of the same class then i am not sure that it will be necessary to lease vessels. They can have a new ship delivered each year for the next 4 years which would get us out of a bad situation.

In the mean time they could look at options for a new design to come online to replace Orla and Ciara

goldie fish

nowecant wrote: »

If they exercise the option on the third ship and even commission a forth of the same class then i am not sure that it will be necessary to lease vessels. They can have a new ship delivered each year for the next 4 years which would get us out of a bad situation.

In the mean time they could look at options for a new design to come online to replace Orla and Ciara

If it were up to me I'd replace both with off the shelf ocean going tugs. There is no longer a naval requirement for exclusive Coastal Patrol vessels, since the creation of the SFPA and the expansion of the Customs Maritime unit.

Peregrine

Emer sold for €320,000.


http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/navy-s-retired-le-emer-sells-for-320-000-to-businessman-1.1570572

Klunk001

Nimrod 7 wrote: »

Emer sold for €320,000.


http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/navy-s-retired-le-emer-sells-for-320-000-to-businessman-1.1570572

So, was Emer a ship or a boat ?:eek:

Capt'n Midnight

Klunk001 wrote: »

So, was Emer a ship or a boat ?:eek:

IIRC the last one was sold for about €200K

Lots of accommodation, ocean capable.

If you'd won the lotto it would be a cool place to live. Or floating restaurant if you could get the insurance.

Not sure about running costs / fuel consumption.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%89_Emer_%28P21%29

Type: Offshore Patrol Vessel
Displacement: 1,019.5 tonnes Standard
Length: 65.2 m (214 ft) overall
Beam: 10.5 m (34 ft)
Draught: 4.4 m (14 ft)
Speed: 31.5 km/h (17.0 kn) maximum
Complement: 46 (5 officers and 41 ratings )

goldie fish

Klunk001 wrote: »

So, was Emer a ship or a boat ?:eek:

If the new owner want's to call it a boat he can. But before he bought it, it was a ship.

goldie fish

Photo taken in September of the ship which is being floated out this weekend, weather permitting.

Tabnabs

Any truth in the rumour of a third one being discussed? Something a little larger for more extended duties?

goldie fish

Tabnabs wrote: »

Any truth in the rumour of a third one being discussed? Something a little larger for more extended duties?

It isn't as straightforward as that. There is an option for a third OPV identical to P61 and P62. That may be exercised once P61 is accepted into service.
However, there is also a plan for a larger type of vessel, possibly mentioned earlier, known now as an Extended Patrol vessel. This would be much larger, as set out in the Request for proposals in 2006:

Appendix B Con/195/2006
Statement of Requirement EPV
Naval Service Patrol vessels are required to undertake a range of duties including, fishery protection, search and rescue, maritime protection, drug interdiction, anti-pollution and maritime security duties, including vessel boarding. The EPV will be required to provide an extended patrol capability capable of undertaking these duties throughout Ireland’s EEZ and in the adverse weather conditions of the North Atlantic. The following is an outline of the characteristics required to fulfil that role. The vessels must be designed and constructed to the Rules and Regulations of the International Association of Classification Societies (IACS).

Length 130 – 140M
Beam 16-20 m
Draft 4.0- 5.0 m

Max Speed 22-26 Kts Cruise Speed 15 Kts Loiter Speed 0 – 8 Kts

Range 8,500 nm Endurance 24 days

Propulsion Diesel, Diesel Electric, DE Hybrid,
Power Generation Diesel Generators, Shaft Alternator, PTO/PTI

Communications HF, VHF, UHF, GMDSS, SAT
Radars Navigation and Air Defence
Stabilisation Active and Passive

Flight Deck 1 Spot for a 10 metric tonne helicopter

Medical LEVEL 11, for 2 pers.

Accommodation Crew + 12 trainees.

Options
Proposals should be provided for the following additional options
1.Helicopter in-flight Refuelling Facility
2.Provision of Dynamic Positioning class 2 or 3
3.Because of the required size of the vessel, there may be potential to increase the utility of the vessel in other roles which would be desirable but not essential.* In this regard, the potential to provide a level of carrying capability for personnel, military vehicles and containers within the size and configuration of the vessel to which the mandatory requirements give rise, should be set out in the proposals.
In this regard, the proposal should indicate the possible arrangements/ combinations of personnel, vehicles and containers that could be accommodated and should indicate the lane metres that can be designed into the vessel.* Annex A indicates the type of items which might be carried on the vessel although not necessarily at the same time.* Proposals should include separately the option of a facility for cargo discharge where no port infrastructure exists.* The implications of including such carrying capacity and cargo discharge arrangements on the nature of the proposed vessel should be fully outlined in the proposal. As already stated above, these optional additional capabilities are desirable but are not essential requirements of the proposed patrol vessel.

The above would cost about €90m per vessel, of which one is proposed and an option for a second. However given the financial situation, and the priority to retire and replace all the remaining P20 class, it would be more pragmatic in the short term to exercise the option for OPV3 first. Particularly in respect of the payment process that OPV 1 and 2 required.
The Need for EPV1 and/or EPV 2 may be discussed again as part of the DF White Paper process. Fleet size will definitely need to be addressed, and less large ships may not be the best option over more intermediate sized ones. The question of an ETV may also arise.

Tabnabs

The rumour I hear is the EPV option is actively under review (along with some unlikely sounding reasons why)

goldie fish

Tabnabs wrote: »

The rumour I hear is the EPV option is actively under review (along with some unlikely sounding reasons why)

In the long term, a vessel of this type is vital. It's mooted as a direct replacement for L.E. Eithne. However, given that barracks had to close to get P61 and P62 built, you have to wonder what type of savings will be needed to fund any further vessels.

Leonidas BL

goldie fish wrote: »

In the long term, a vessel of this type is vital. It's mooted as a direct replacement for L.E. Eithne. However, given that barracks had to close to get P61 and P62 built, you have to wonder what type of savings will be needed to fund any further vessels.

The government jets would be a good start.

sparky42

Leonidas BL wrote: »

The government jets would be a good start.

And instead they fly are Linus and rack up how much in charges? I'd guess that most of the cost is now sunk costs, and the actual operational outlay is relatively small. Also isn't at least one of them configurable for neonatal medical support?

In the end given how tight the budget is at this stage short of cutting out whole sections of services I can't how you cut anymore.

goldie fish

Leonidas BL wrote: »

The government jets would be a good start.

Not really. Their usage has been cut hugely since the current government took over, and as mentioned earlier, the smaller jet is fitted out as an Air Ambulance.
The days of the Gulfstream being used for ministers wives shopping trips are long gone.

Jim from Cork

Launched!

http://www.northdevongazette.co.uk/news/photos_irish_vessel_launched_from_appledore_shipyard_1_2963114

Drummerboy08

Interesting reading the article in from a few weeks ago on the sale of the Emer, calls for one vessel to be kept as a museum ship. What are the chances of this happening?

sparky42

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

Interesting reading the article in from a few weeks ago on the sale of the Emer, calls for one vessel to be kept as a museum ship. What are the chances of this happening?

I'd say not much and even if it happened not for long before it got into financial difficulties. When you look at the costs of keeping a museum ship, they don't come cheap, and those are for historical ships (Belfast, Caroline, Intrepid in the States).

None of the navy despite their great surface have that draw and from what I understand they aren't really spacious enough for taking loads of people through.

Do we even have a full up naval museum that it could be attached to?

a/tel

Ex - L.E. Deirdre

See attached photos taken Fri 01 Nov 2013 at BAE Shipyard Jacksonville Florida USA

According to reports she was abandoned by her Brazilian owner and is to be scrapped.

If true its a sad ending to the story

aindriu80

nice to see pictures of the new Irish ship. It seems a bit low in the water compared to existing ships ? maybe there is still radios and small tower to add ?

wotswattage

It's the same general shape as Róisín and Niamh but stretched so might look a bit lower??!?

aindriu80

wotswattage wrote: »

It's the same general shape as Róisín and Niamh but stretched so might look a bit lower??!?

Yeah that might be it. Plus they aren't putting on extra parts to the ship.