3 New Navy Vessels for Irish Naval Service

Brian Clowen

I think you will all be delighted when you see Sam next to roisin or Niamh.

She is a much bigger vessel, some of the tech innovations are leaps forwards for the service and her operational tempo will be high from the start.

Just keep in mind that it is a ships company that makes the ship otherwise it's just a inanimate collection of steel, wires and plastics.

It's first crew is already flat out working if not on her then for her.

Internally and externally it is a very different ship, it hull and propulsion is very different, it's accommodation is very different.

It's tech is right up to date as well 13-14 years more advancements that anything prior.

Also rumour has it that there will be NO third vessel.

If we get a third vessel or subsequent vessels they will be off the shelf or second hand.


The well is dry in that regard and Aisling will be staying another 10 years at least and you might see 40 plus for eithne provided neither sink of course.

But never say never, we live in hope.

goldie fish

Brian Clowen wrote: »

I think you will all be delighted when you see Sam next to roisin or Niamh.

.

I think the problem is, in these recessionary times, that to get P61 and P62 built, the Defence forces had to make huge savings, and closure of barracks was one of the main things to fund it.
The Well is now indeed dry. There are no more savings to be made, as the Defence Forces continue to every year come in under budget. A third vessel would mean the Government coming up with €50m of their own money usually, by taking it from somewhere else.
Off the shelf has never served us well in the past. though that has usually meant second hand too.

I look forward to seeing the internal layout of "Sam". I was impressed on my first visit to the Roisin, how spacious her crew accommodation was compared to what was found on Eithne. Indeed Eithne was a huge improvement over Aisling, Aoife and Emer, and they in turn were a massive improvement to was was normal on the Minesweepers, which were also a vast improvement on the Corvette Messdecks.
I have heard of the Propulsion changes, but can't help wonder will the engine room spaces overlap again or will they have a straight bulkhead separating them.

Again it is something I look forward to discovering, in due course.

Brian Clowen

I'm a actually going to have to edit my post above just taking to a chap today and never say never as I said.

The situation have now become very fluid again and I may have spoken to soon.

I love the new layout and I'm only sorry that I am restricted in what I can post here.

The use of space is what grabbed me standing in Sam, I'm delighted that nearly all the little items and suggestions where taken onboard.

It's a fabulous ship and the naval service has done the state some service in its design and construction.

It will be an honour to sail on her.

goldie fish

I look forward to seeing Sam, and your next edit

aindriu80

A few more pictures would go down well

Markcheese

Would an ulstein x bow type vessel be way out of price range for Irish naval service ?? ( I know it's probably a long way down the line) ... But would have thought a multifunctional tug supply vessel that can operate quickly in poor conditions would suit the irish navy's role..

aindriu80

Markcheese wrote: »

Would an ulstein x bow type vessel be way out of price range for Irish naval service ?? ( I know it's probably a long way down the line) ... But would have thought a multifunctional tug supply vessel that can operate quickly in poor conditions would suit the irish navy's role..

Probably if not certainty.. but then again if there was oil off the coast we could well afford to replace the navy with Le Samuel vessels and replace LE Eithne with FREMM multipurpose frigate or 2.

Markcheese

http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=618

Don't think we'd need anything as big as the above,even one of their standard smaller supply vessels could do us...

goldie fish

Markcheese wrote: »

http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=618

Don't think we'd need anything as big as the above,even one of their standard smaller supply vessels could do us...

I wouldn't rule it out.

zone 1

this type of vessel design is working of our coast so why not proven design . this could be the future of ship

aindriu80

sparky42

Here's a potentially strange question for those that know better than I do?

With the announcement of the new River class ships for the RN and the uncertainty of whether they are in addition to the Rivers or replacing them, but the heel of the hunt, if in 3+ years the Rivers are being sold off as surplus would there be any interest from the Irish Navy to make up the hull numbers, or are we passed the point of buying second hands?

Just a random question?

aindriu80

here are some more pictures that you may or may not have seen. Le samuel beckett is due in Irish hands in March 2014.

goldie fish

sparky42 wrote: »

Here's a potentially strange question for those that know better than I do?

With the announcement of the new River class ships for the RN and the uncertainty of whether they are in addition to the Rivers or replacing them, but the heel of the hunt, if in 3+ years the Rivers are being sold off as surplus would there be any interest from the Irish Navy to make up the hull numbers, or are we passed the point of buying second hands?

Just a random question?

It would be a retrograde step. In terms of technology, the RN River Class are on a par with the P20 class, albeit with a better hull.
No point making up the numbers if the hulls can't do the job. You'll not find the River class in the mid atlantic in January. Indeed, HMS Clyde which is based in the South Atlantic normally goes for refit during the harsh winter months, leaving the duty to the Antarctic Patrol ship.

sparky42

goldie fish wrote: »

It would be a retrograde step. In terms of technology, the RN River Class are on a par with the P20 class, albeit with a better hull.
No point making up the numbers if the hulls can't do the job. You'll not find the River class in the mid atlantic in January. Indeed, HMS Clyde which is based in the South Atlantic normally goes for refit during the harsh winter months, leaving the duty to the Antarctic Patrol ship.

Thanks for the opinion Goldie, I sort of figured that would be the case I was just wondering what the view of others would be, I'd hate to be the poor gunner sent to man the 20mm off the west coast considering how exposed it would be.

goldie fish

aindriu80 wrote: »

here are some more pictures that you may or may not have seen. Le samuel beckett is due in Irish hands in March 2014.

A few dead links there Andriu. The photo's original source must have got pee'd off with you reposting them without giving due credit.

roundymac

I see that the Oto Melara 76mm is already fitted to Samuel Beckett. When the P51s were delivered they did not have the 76mm gun fitted. It was later fitted in the Haulbowline. The reason given was that the Dept wanted it done this way because the EU were part funding them as fishery patrol vessels and were afraid the EU would consider them warships and withdraw the funding IIRC. Anyone know why the change this time?

aindriu80

goldie fish wrote: »

A few dead links there Andriu. The photo's original source must have got pee'd off with you reposting them without giving due credit.

I just put them up for who ever wanted to see them.

roundymac

aindriu80 wrote: »

I just put them up for who ever wanted to see them.

But we can't see them, they are not working.

source

roundymac wrote: »

But we can't see them, they are not working.

I can see them fine.

Mr. Tezza

source wrote: »

I can see them fine.

I can't, well I can see some images but most are not available? it says "this image or video is currently unavailable"

Blocked by Flickr?

aindriu80

I don't know.. they just decided to pull them. Its their right but pretty unfortunate if you wanted to see them

goldie fish

roundymac wrote: »

I see that the Oto Melara 76mm is already fitted to Samuel Beckett. When the P51s were delivered they did not have the 76mm gun fitted. It was later fitted in the Haulbowline. The reason given was that the Dept wanted it done this way because the EU were part funding them as fishery patrol vessels and were afraid the EU would consider them warships and withdraw the funding IIRC. Anyone know why the change this time?

The EU are not part funding these ships.

Larbre34

aindriu80 wrote: »

Probably if not certainty.. but then again if there was oil off the coast we could well afford to replace the navy with Le Samuel vessels and replace LE Eithne with FREMM multipurpose frigate or 2.

At €600 million each? Maybe next millenium.

aindriu80

Larbre34 wrote: »

At €600 million each? Maybe next millenium.

The Navy would probably be doing well to get all the existing ships replaced with new ones but health is €1bn over its budget every year.

nowecant

goldie fish wrote: »

3 is a vital option too.

Would this not be the cheapest option?

I'm not sure about how these contracts operate but does the INS own the design now or is it still an STX design. If we own the design can we order another ship at a lower cost? Would it also not be cheaper to maintain?

Also would the shipyard consider giving a better price to keep the work?

I am pro getting a larger EPV but I believe in the short term with the current budget constraints and the necessity of replacing a ship that OPV 3 is by far the best option.

goldie fish

nowecant wrote: »

Would this not be the cheapest option?

I'm not sure about how these contracts operate but does the INS own the design now or is it still an STX design. If we own the design can we order another ship at a lower cost? Would it also not be cheaper to maintain?

Also would the shipyard consider giving a better price to keep the work?

I am pro getting a larger EPV but I believe in the short term with the current budget constraints and the necessity of replacing a ship that OPV 3 is by far the best option.

It is. The contract ordered 2 ships at the agreed price, plus an option for a third at the same (2010) price. It is still an STX design.

While the EPV is definitely a worthwhile proposal, when given the option of:

• no more OPVs and an EPV ordered sometime in the next 5-10 years with a long lead time
• one more OPV within 2 years and no more ships in the foreseeable future

I'll happily take the latter. The Older ships are at(not approaching) the end of their useful life, with the operational tempo increasing. The new ships should be if things were done properly, in service now, but Former Useless ministers decided to not bother making a decision for almost 2 years.

roadmaster

i know a lot of other things would need to be put in place first but i was wondering if a cabinet Decision was taken to deploy the navy to the indian ocean to help combat the pirates in the area,would the new vessels be fit to go or would they need to be bulked up with better armour etc?

goldie fish

You wouldn't even need to send the new vessels. The Peacocks were designed to work in that type of climate, and there are smaller ships out there. Similarly, the P50s have already shown their ability to work in the Indian Ocean.

Ships really have not had armour since the 1940s.

Any of the ships other than the ancient P22 and P23 could easily go in the morning, should the political will exist.

roadmaster

goldie fish wrote: »

You wouldn't even need to send the new vessels. The Peacocks were designed to work in that type of climate, and there are smaller ships out there. Similarly, the P50s have already shown their ability to work in the Indian Ocean.

Ships really have not had armour since the 1940s.

Any of the ships other than the ancient P22 and

P23 could easily go in the morning, should the political will exist.

So say our vessels engaged the pirates and the pirates fired rpgs or maybe something heavier back would are vessels we able to take the hit with existing damage control and stay a float?