Sexuality and society

Dudess

Was going to put this on the thread re nudity but I think it perhaps warrants its own thread as one of the points on the nudity debate is nudity isn't always sexual.
Basically, there seems quite a lot of talk about Ireland being sexually repressed etc in comparison to other countries. Personally I don't think Ireland is particularly so now - we've come a long way since the "Bishop and the nightie" days. Plus, I'm personally not pushed about the idea of society being so open about sex and sexuality as to cause it to become a mundane part of life like it is (or apparently is) in e.g. Scandinavia - sex to me should be exciting, a little bit inaccessible, have a degree of mystique to it. I don't particularly want it to have a place in society that would cause it to become boring and as routine as a bowl of cornflakes.
Now I'm not for one second saying I believe it should be taboo or hidden away - that's something entirely different, and thanks be to Jesus those days are gone. I'm just saying though I personally like a level of privacy to it, which I think just adds to the intimacy, the intensity of the experience.
If people are into orgies, swinging, sex shows, more power to them, but I don't think to not be into those = an uptight or repressed or prudish person.

WindSock

Bishop and the nightie? I don't think we are as repressed anymore as we like to say we are. Maybe it is different in rural areas, I don't know.

MrStuffins

I can't speak for the whole country, but my generation is not sexually repressed. It really is each to their own as sex and sexuality is a personal thing.

However, i've recently moved abroad and realised that, although we may not be repressed in this country, most of Europe are much more "advanced" than we are.

For instance, when myself and 4 of my female friends were invited to a bar a few weeks ago and it was "The local swingers bar". Apparently they're everywhere here.

My first thought was "Isn't that illegal?". I had no problem with it, it just wasnt "normal" to me.

Darlughda

Well, I am just flabbergasted at the various responses from both men and women on the variety of 'one night stand' threads.

I really do think the late teens-late 20's are the most conservative group in society we have ever seen.

To think, in this day and age, people would consider a woman a 'slut' and 'giving over easy'. Giving over what ffs?

Worse still are the women coming out with this kind of tripe, ' I didn't wan't him to think I was that sort of girl', 'I would not let him have it that quickly' etc etc.

Both sexes using female sexuality as some sort of bargaining tool or currency, that should not be 'given up', or is a commodity to be witheld to show how smart you are for not giving in too easy. And that's before the mad ego men thing of freaking out about a woman having many other sexual partners!!

I find it difficult to empathise with the young woman who uses her sexuality as a coy bargaining tool, and equally with the young fella who somehow thinks it better to have sexual relationship with a woman who is practically a virgin.

Dudess

WindSock wrote: »

Bishop and the nightie?

An edition of The Late Late Show in the 60s where a woman said in response to some query re her nightie on her wedding night that she may not have worn one... which caused much outrage from the pulpit the following Sunday... :pac::eek:

MrStuffins wrote: »

It really is each to their own as sex and sexuality is a personal thing.

Couldn't agree more.

minidazzler

MrStuffins wrote: »

I can't speak for the whole country, but my generation is not sexually repressed. It really is each to their own as sex and sexuality is a personal thing.

However, i've recently moved abroad and realised that, although we may not be repressed in this country, most of Europe are much more "advanced" than we are.

For instance, when myself and 4 of my female friends were invited to a bar a few weeks ago and it was "The local swingers bar". Apparently they're everywhere here.

My first thought was "Isn't that illegal?". I had no problem with it, it just wasnt "normal" to me.

Why would a swingers bar be illegal?

Sexually repressed? Hardly, I agree with windsock, we like to talk ourselves as vestal virgins, but there is a sexual side to this country that is far from repressed.

Dudess

Darlughda wrote: »

I really do think the late teens-late 20's are the most conservative group in society we have ever seen.

Ah, I don't know...

To think, in this day and age, people would consider a woman a 'slut' and 'giving over easy'. Giving over what ffs?

True. Although a lot of the men who have such an issue with it would have no qualms about taking part in one-night stands themselves. If a person isn't into one-night stands themselves and they don't judge others for it, I don't view that as prudishness, just a personal preference - but the aforementioned hypocrisy.... grrr.

Darlughda

Seriously Dudess, even looking back on the amount of 'one night stand' threads. and attitudes from men and women about it on boards alone even within the last 6 months...... and thats Ladies Lounge, the Gentlemens club, after hours, Personal Issues..

Can you really honestly say that the overwhelming response from the late teens to late 20s is not conservative to ultra conservative?

Jayzus, don't ask me for examples!:o

But, as a regular/daily user have you not seen the shocking conservatism from the younger demographic?

MrStuffins

minidazzler wrote: »

Why would a swingers bar be illegal?

Exactly! Why? I was surprised that this was the first thing i thought! Which shows, living in Ireland, we aren;t as open about it as other places.

4zn76tysfajdxp

minidazzler wrote: »

there is a sexual side to this country that is far from repressed.

The underbelly, if you will.

Dimitri

Darlughda wrote: »

Seriously Dudess, even looking back on the amount of 'one night stand' threads. and attitudes from men and women about it on boards alone even within the last 6 months...... and thats Ladies Lounge, the Gentlemens club, after hours, Personal Issues..

Can you really honestly say that the overwhelming response from the late teens to late 20s is not conservative to ultra conservative?

Jayzus, don't ask me for examples!:o

But, as a regular/daily user have you not seen the shocking conservatism from the younger demographic?

I think its more cut and dry there seems to be no middle ground they are either ridiculously conservative or else completely liberated (as I would see it). The completely liberated are judged harshly as being pervs/sluts/easy/not girlfriend material, the last one incidentally makes my blood boil, how on earth can someone be good enough to sleep with but not good enough for a relationship, I'm not implying that every sexual encounter should lead to a relationship but the attitude sickens me.

It is also an attitude an awful lot of my younger friends would share (early twenties) but is refreshingly absent in older friends (late 20's early thirties) what precipitated that change I wonder?

donfers

I agree with dudess except for one important consideration, often people need to be sloshed at least to engage in the first sexual encounter and sometimes subsequent ones, it tends to settle down after a while but I wish people didn't need 25 vodkas to get their kit off as they can become deeply unattractive in that state - I'm not asking for acrobatics, just an ability to not have huge hang-ups about your sexuality in the beginning unless completely pissed

Louisayankee2

I don't know why people are so ignorant about how the family began and continued functioning before refrigeration, and birth control......
Stay with me here a second..
The human female is the only one that can produce milk until the day of her death. Many a husband attests to the pleasure of joining his newest offspring in the delight of the drinking of the breast milk from his wife.

I don't know why more women don't use this bonding hormone of Oxytocin in the bonding of their marriage , too.??
It has definitely been shown to stop infidelity, bond two adults together, and it is still so sought after by men, but women seem to with hold it from their husbands ,as though they don't care to bond with them.
Many husbands I have talked to engaging in this with their wives long after the children have grown into their twenties, tell me it is better than sex! wow.... that is sweet , loving, nurturing and tender between two people.

I think we need more couples who are willing to engage in this wonderful thing called Adult Nursing Relationships....... it is absolutely wonderful.
It has too many benefits to count!:p

MrStuffins

Louisayankee2 wrote: »

I don't know why people are so ignorant about how the family began and continued functioning before refrigeration, and birth control......
Stay with me here a second..
The human female is the only one that can produce milk until the day of her death. Many a husband attests to the pleasure of joining his newest offspring in the delight of the drinking of the breast milk from his wife.

I don't know why more women don't use this bonding hormone of Oxytocin in the bonding of their marriage , too.??
It has definitely been shown to stop infidelity, bond two adults together, and it is still so sought after by men, but women seem to with hold it from their husbands ,as though they don't care to bond with them.
Many husbands I have talked to engaging in this with their wives long after the children have grown into their twenties, tell me it is better than sex! wow.... that is sweet , loving, nurturing and tender between two people.

I think we need more couples who are willing to engage in this wonderful thing called Adult Nursing Relationships....... it is absolutely wonderful.
It has too many benefits to count!:p

Hold on............. What???

The Sweeper

Dudess wrote: »

If people are into orgies, swinging, sex shows, more power to them, but I don't think to not be into those = an uptight or repressed or prudish person.

The sexuality message you're exposed to in Ireland is completely confusing. It doesn't even have to involve such 'liberated' activities as partner swapping or voyeurism.

Let's take head - oral sex, fellatio, blowjobs.

I met someone recently who doesn't give blowjobs. Finds them disgusting, degrading. I was surprised to be honest - not surprised that she felt so vehemently anti-blowjob, but more surprised that she hasn't simply capitulated and gives head routinely because society thinks she's supposed to as a routine part of foreplay or a standard activity in a relationship.

If you watch porn, you're shown images that suggest you should be a cock-gobbling demon who just loves to get a cumshot in the face. Choking and gagging on a penis? GREAT GUNS NORA!! SOUNDS LIKE A HOOT! Often the first sexual encounter for teenaged girls now is to give oral sex to the bloke they're with - and not necessarily a bloke they're in a relationship with either.

Because 'sure, it's just a blowjob'.

But what if you don't like giving head? What if you really detest it - perhaps you have no expectations of receiving head either, preferring to keep every sexual encounter you have as genitals only or hands to genitals? Many of the messages you hear will tell you you're sexually repressed if you don't want to give head. You're prudish. You're frigid. It's the 'norm' to give head. If you don't like giving head, you've got a problem. So what does that mean? Does that mean you should do it anyway, even though you don't want to do it?

Does it mean you should have a sexual encounter that you really don't want to have, so people don't think you're frigid or up tight or repressed?

What's another word for having a sexual encounter you don't really want to have?

Most people you speak to will probably tell you they think orgies are a little OTT and not a routinely expected part of a normal relationship. But blowjobs? They're like holding hands.

Cunnilingus, of course, isn't like holding hands, unless you've waxed every hair off your genitals so you're a bald as a baby and you've scrubbed yourself pinkly raw and clean before a guy can be expected to spearhead the hunt for the clitoris.

Yes, of course these messages don't apply to everyone - but that's the point, messages don't apply to everyone.

MrStuffins

The Sweeper wrote: »

Does it mean you should have a sexual encounter that you really don't want to have, so people don't think you're frigid or up tight or repressed?

What's another word for having a sexual encounter you don't really want to have?

I'm sorry, but you are equating "going with the crowd" to rape here.

Joe Duffy will be on in a while, maybe you can tell him oral sex should be banned!

Wibbs

MrStuffins wrote: »

I'm sorry, but you are equating "going with the crowd" to rape here.

I can see TS's point but yea a bit of a stretch alright.

This stuff should be about choice. If you want to swing from chandeliers with a french tickler up your bum, then coolaboola and if you want a 7 second fumble through a hole in the sheet with the lights off then coolaboola too. Actually that would be what I've noticed changing more in Irish society in the last 20 odd years. Its gotten more extreme and the middle ground has shrunk somewhat.

um7y1h83ge06nx

Interesting topic!

It is my belief that we are not really oppressed as a society but MAYBE we have become more conservative in recent years.

One of my close friends M. (27) asked me one night about how to improve his sex life with his girlfriend N. (23) whom I also know well. Apparently she saw a lot of things as being "dirty" (her word) and my friend was finding it tough as his ex was a lot more adventurous.

This girl and her group of friends were horrified when M. told them of some of my antics after I broke up with my ex (casual sex). N. wanted M. to have an intervention of sorts in order to calm me down and get me to cop on. M. flat out refused saying that as far as he was concerned it wasn't a big deal, I was re-adjusting to the break-up and that things will work themselves out.

My current girlfriend that is a little younger than me (she's 23, I'm 27) and took a little bit of time to openly discuss sex. Even though we would have sex she wouldn't feel comfortable discussing the topic. I just wanted to know what she liked, didn't like etc. Thankfully though she has really opened up in that regard.

That reminds me that before I met my current girlfriend I was meeting a girl (22) on/off. Once she mentioned she was having her period or whatnot. The only thing she didn't refer to her period as her "period" but her "thingies"! It seemed so childish and made me feel like some sort of pervert preying on a child! :eek:

But in conclusion it's probably impossible to state how liberated we are as we could all offer hundreds of contrasting examples.

The Sweeper

MrStuffins wrote: »

I'm sorry, but you are equating "going with the crowd" to rape here.

Joe Duffy will be on in a while, maybe you can tell him oral sex should be banned!

"Going with the crowd"?? So you're basically saying that yeah, if you don't like giving head, you're prudish and frigid because everybody's doing it?

Just to stir this up a bit more, I'm going to throw 'enthusiastic consent' into the mix here and see what bobs up... (oh the entendre)

metrovelvet

i dunno. As long you need six pints inside you to loosen up, whatever you are doing, is not liberated. I would still view it as an inhibited society, not just sexually, but across a range of things.

krudler

Louisayankee2 wrote: »

I don't know why people are so ignorant about how the family began and continued functioning before refrigeration, and birth control......
Stay with me here a second..
The human female is the only one that can produce milk until the day of her death. Many a husband attests to the pleasure of joining his newest offspring in the delight of the drinking of the breast milk from his wife.

I don't know why more women don't use this bonding hormone of Oxytocin in the bonding of their marriage , too.??
It has definitely been shown to stop infidelity, bond two adults together, and it is still so sought after by men, but women seem to with hold it from their husbands ,as though they don't care to bond with them.
Many husbands I have talked to engaging in this with their wives long after the children have grown into their twenties, tell me it is better than sex! wow.... that is sweet , loving, nurturing and tender between two people.

I think we need more couples who are willing to engage in this wonderful thing called Adult Nursing Relationships....... it is absolutely wonderful.
It has too many benefits to count!:p

They did a special documentary on this on Little Britain, you should check it out, very informative.

who the fug

Dudess wrote: »

An edition of The Late Late Show in the 60s where a woman said in response to some query re her nightie on her wedding night that she may not have worn one... which caused much outrage from the pulpit the following Sunday... :pac::eek:

.

Worse by all accounts John Charles rang up and admonished Gaybo the same night

MrStuffins

The Sweeper wrote: »

"Going with the crowd"?? So you're basically saying that yeah, if you don't like giving head, you're prudish and frigid because everybody's doing it?

Just to stir this up a bit more, I'm going to throw 'enthusiastic consent' into the mix here and see what bobs up... (oh the entendre)

What? Where the hell did I say any of that? Are you ok? Do you need to lie down?

Smyth

The Sweeper wrote: »

"Going with the crowd"?? So you're basically saying that yeah, if you don't like giving head, you're prudish and frigid because everybody's doing it?

Just to stir this up a bit more, I'm going to throw 'enthusiastic consent' into the mix here and see what bobs up... (oh the entendre)

Wat.

Ralph pls go

Truley

Personally I think our supposedly confident and liberal attitude to sexuality is all show no substance. Irish women (and men) are still incredibly prudish and insecure with regards to nudity. Sure, we're good at public displays of drunken fumbling and showing off (loudly) in clubs and pubs. The vast majority of people I know will pay lip service to the culture, and act promisciously, but shy away from any serious discussion about sex or relationships. It's like our clothes and public behaviour says 'yes,' conduct in private says 'no.'

Most European women I have met would have a far more 'liberal' attitude towards sex and sexuality than we have, yet are shocked by the way we do dating and hooking up.

Personally I blame the gender segregated education system, the only country in Europe that still has it this way I understand. Our social and alchohol culture doesn't help either.

Floppybits

Dimitri wrote: »

I think its more cut and dry there seems to be no middle ground they are either ridiculously conservative or else completely liberated (as I would see it). The completely liberated are judged harshly as being pervs/sluts/easy/not girlfriend material, the last one incidentally makes my blood boil, how on earth can someone be good enough to sleep with but not good enough for a relationship, I'm not implying that every sexual encounter should lead to a relationship but the attitude sickens me.

It is also an attitude an awful lot of my younger friends would share (early twenties) but is refreshingly absent in older friends (late 20's early thirties) what precipitated that change I wonder?

I kinda agree but I dont think it is conservatism but actually young people being a bit more sexually educated especially about STD's other such diseases and that has made them think twice about one night stands and also the new media such as text messaging and facebook where someone's sexual behaviour can be broadcast with in minutes around not just Ireland but the world.

When I was growing up in the 90's, I think Ireland was just coming out of its conservative ways and people where enjoying the new freedom but as with everything things settle down and we become more aware I think this is what has happened here. On the new media in the 90's we didn't have email, facebook and text messages so you wouldn't get a reputation as quickly as what you would nowadays. I think for young people that is a minefield nowadays and this has kinda made them step back and evaluate their thinking.

metrovelvet

Truley wrote: »

Personally I think our supposedly confident and liberal attitude to sexuality is all show no substance. Irish women (and men) are still incredibly prudish and insecure with regards to nudity. Sure, we're good at public displays of drunken fumbling and showing off (loudly) in clubs and pubs. The vast majority of people I know will pay lip service to the culture, and act promisciously, but shy away from any serious discussion about sex or relationships. It's like our clothes and public behaviour says 'yes,' conduct in private says 'no.'

Most European women I have met would have a far more 'liberal' attitude towards sex and sexuality than we have, yet are shocked by the way we do dating and hooking up.

Personally I blame the gender segregated education system, the only country in Europe that still has it this way I understand. Our social and alchohol culture doesn't help either.

Yes, there is no depth to it. Its like some kind of performativity of being loose and liberal but nothing behind it.

Never hear much talk about sensuality. Gets totally left out of the discussion. Irish women in general not in touch with their inner sirens, probably because it would scare the men!

mariebeth

Truley wrote: »

Personally I blame the gender segregated education system, the only country in Europe that still has it this way I understand. Our social and alchohol culture doesn't help either.

I personally blame our parents...or was I the only one here who got handed a book on sex education & that was it? My parents are quite traditional with a strong emphasis on religion, so sex is just a topic that is not discussed really in the house at all. But even without the whole religious aspect of it, I don't think that there are many Irish parents who are good at talking about sex with their kids. And for sex education and discussion, it should really start at home, instead they expect the schools to pass on information and values, and sher who listens to their teachers?

Unfortunately most of our generations parents were repressed by their parents and the church and all that, so maybe it's up to us to acknowledge this and hopefully not pass on that repression to our own kids?

Dudess

Truley wrote: »

Irish women (and men) are still incredibly prudish and insecure with regards to nudity.

Again, why are you associating nudity with sexuality? As was being said on the other thread, many people just feel self conscious about the physical condition of their bodies, it's not that they have a problem with the naked body.

The Sweeper

MrStuffins wrote: »

What? Where the hell did I say any of that? Are you ok? Do you need to lie down?

Smyth wrote:

Wat.

Ralph pls go

Guys, seriously, this is a debate. If you can't find a way to address the actual point, then don't bother trying to play the smartarsed rhetoric game with me, because while I'm currently extremely lazy, that's one I will win.

My point is this:

Lots of women don't like giving blowjobs.
Society currently considers the blowjob a happy part of a normal relationship.
If you declare that you don't like giving blowjobs, lots of people will tell you you're prudish, up tight, frigid, need to relax, aren't doing it properly, need to get out more, etc. etc.
More disturbingly, if you declare that you don't like giving blowjobs a whole pile of women may tell you to get over yourself, that it's great fun, and that you're frigid - even though they may not actually like giving blowjobs themselves.

It's a desire to fit in. In a loving relationship, lots of people who aren't crazy about giving head give head because they know their partner likes it and they get some enjoyment out of pleasing their partner. Where does that leave young women who aren't in a relationship who are giving casual fellatio to blokes in their class / in their workplace / in their college course / in their general circle of friends, purely out of a desire to fit in, even though they dislike the sexual act they are performing?

This is where the concept of enthusiastic consent comes in. Enthusiastic consent isn't just saying yes to a sexual act - it's actively participating in and enjoying a sexual act that you're getting something out of and where you're willingly and wholeheartedly enjoying yourself partaking in that sexual act.

But this is where we come back to Dudess' original post and the point of this thread. Why do a lot of women dislike giving blowjobs? Is it because we're a nation of repressed prudes? What's so bad about them, as opposed to some minor jawache which should really be offset by the entertainment you get from the pleasure the receiving gentleman is getting out of your ministrations?

If you dislike giving blowjobs because for you, they're an unpleasant and uncomfortable experience involving putting a bad-smelling, poor-tasting member in your mouth and experiencing gagging and choking, then who the fuck are you dating and why the fuck does HE think that's an okay way to engage in a sexual act with someone? Which one of the two of you is more repressed, the fellator performing a sex act that they're not enjoying and which, as they slurp, they wish was over? Or the fellatee who appears to believe they are somehow entitled to this particular kind of stimulation and don't have to make any effort to facilitate it?

Even if he's not pushing your head down like he's trying to encourage you to win an apple bobbing concept, why won't he wash? Why are you expected to have a bijou landing-strip bushette and a set of hooker heels, while he presents a set of hairy caveman genitalia that look like he's tucked an ounce of Dumas in his jocks, and smells like roadkill in the summer heat?

And if he isn't behaving badly - if he's clean and gentle and keeps his hands firmly interlaced behind his head while you work your magic, why do some women still hate the process? Is this where repression comes in, that you're performing an act which isn't actually physically unpleasant, but still makes you feel 'dirty'? Who says it's degrading? Who's telling us that we're somehow debasing ourselves by partaking in the mouth-hugs?

In Ireland, we look around the tell ourselves it's the church or our parents or our education.

But it's not just the church, or our parents, or our schools, and it's not just Ireland. The hyper-sexualisation of women is a first world phenomenon. Pole dancing is now touted as an empowering workout choice. You can't buy a pair of high heels that don't have a five inch stiletto and a one inch platform sole. They used to be hooker heels - now they're only hooker heels if the sole and the heel are transparent.

Against the hyper-sexualisation campaign, if you're NOT a skinny, pneumatic-boobed hooker-heel-wearing sex kitten who's claiming your scantily clad state is just for you and it's empowering and by the way you can suck a golfball through a four metre hosepipe, then you're a repressed frigid prude. And age doesn't get you out of these expectations any more - thank you, cougars of the world.

Against all that expectation, how the hell is any woman supposed to feel liberated?

28064212

The Sweeper wrote: »

Lots of women don't like giving blowjobs.
Society currently considers the blowjob a happy part of a normal relationship.
If you declare that you don't like giving blowjobs, lots of people will tell you you're prudish, up tight, frigid, need to relax, aren't doing it properly, need to get out more, etc. etc.

And if you don't drink alcohol, lots of people will tell you... well, that you're prudish, up tight, frigid, need to relax, aren't doing it properly, need to get out more, etc. etc. So? There are (normally :pac:) two people in the bedroom. Anyone else's opinion doesn't count.

And IMO, society sees cunninglingus as just an important a part of a "normal relationship" (whatever that is) as fellatio.

The Sweeper wrote: »

It's a desire to fit in. In a loving relationship, lots of people who aren't crazy about giving head give head because they know their partner likes it and they get some enjoyment out of pleasing their partner. Where does that leave young women who aren't in a relationship who are giving casual fellatio to blokes in their class / in their workplace / in their college course / in their general circle of friends, purely out of a desire to fit in, even though they dislike the sexual act they are performing?

But they've made a conscious choice to do it, for whatever reason.

The Sweeper wrote: »

This is where the concept of enthusiastic consent comes in. Enthusiastic consent isn't just saying yes to a sexual act - it's actively participating in and enjoying a sexual act that you're getting something out of and where you're willingly and wholeheartedly enjoying yourself partaking in that sexual act.

If I didn't like performing cunninglingus (I do), I would still do it to provide pleasure to my partner. Even if it did nothing for me. I would also (to list some stereotypes) go on shopping trips, go to stranger's weddings, listen to boring conversations and clean up around the house (but not watch the X-factor, that's one step too far )

The Sweeper wrote: »

If you dislike giving blowjobs because for you, they're an unpleasant and uncomfortable experience involving putting a bad-smelling, poor-tasting member in your mouth and experiencing gagging and choking, then who the fuck are you dating and why the fuck does HE think that's an okay way to engage in a sexual act with someone? Which one of the two of you is more repressed, the fellator performing a sex act that they're not enjoying and which, as they slurp, they wish was over? Or the fellatee who appears to believe they are somehow entitled to this particular kind of stimulation and don't have to make any effort to facilitate it?

Out of curiosity, if a woman consents to fellatio, are men supposed to be mind-readers to decide she actually doesn't want to do it? That she doesn't want to provide pleasure to her partner? There is one person responsible for whether someone performs fellatio, and that's the person themselves (rape cases excluded of course)

The Sweeper wrote: »

But it's not just the church, or our parents, or our schools, and it's not just Ireland. The hyper-sexualisation of women is a first world phenomenon. Pole dancing is now touted as an empowering workout choice. You can't buy a pair of high heels that don't have a five inch stiletto and a one inch platform sole. They used to be hooker heels - now they're only hooker heels if the sole and the heel are transparent.

Against the hyper-sexualisation campaign, if you're NOT a skinny, pneumatic-boobed hooker-heel-wearing sex kitten who's claiming your scantily clad state is just for you and it's empowering and by the way you can suck a golfball through a four metre hosepipe, then you're a repressed frigid prude. And age doesn't get you out of these expectations any more - thank you, cougars of the world.

And men are expected to be all things to all women: macho-posturing but emotionally-sensitive, bad-boys and nerds, chivalrous but pro-equal-rights, movie-star good-looking but without attracting any other women, and, above all, instinctively amazing in bed. Expectations work both ways