The Pub trade is dying - Minimum price for Alcohol?

Flex

Muahahaha wrote: »

Moaning Joan Burton on radio right now explaining how buying 15 bottles for €15 is "very cheap". You can buy 15 bottles of beer on much of the continent for under €8 and she is calling €15 cheap for the same thing. Under the new rules even the cheapest of table wine will cost almost €10 a bottle for stuff that the French would baulk at paying more than €2.50 a bottle for. 15 bottles of beer will cost more than €25 on these new rules

I suppose €25 is nothing if you get paid €170,000 a year like she does. But for normal people its a huge price.

€2.20 a can will have me ramping up my homebrew operation significantly, no way am I paying €2.20 a can when I can brew it myself for under 50c a pint.

15 bottles for €15 isn't cheap at all, it's reasonable. We've become so accustomed to being ripped off in the on trade and the campaign over the past couple years by the government brow beating us about drinking and the ridiculously defined 'binge drinking epidemic' that we think off trade prices are very low and we should feel guilty for speaking up about enjoying having a drink. They aren't cheap in the off trade, our on trade prices are just absolute rip offs. Now the government has decided people have enjoyed reasonable prices too long, time to end it.

Have to say, I find Leo Varadkar gleefully proclaiming how reasonable prices for Drinks in Ireland "is a thing of the past" very antagonising

DarkJager

Would someone who might have the knowledge mind explaining how they could possibly enforce this? At the end of the day, the price of a product is up to the producer of that product. If Dutch Gold want to sell 4 cans at an RRP of 5e, how the hell could the government interfere in that and tell them what they should charge?

WoollyRedHat

People should write to Leo and ask him if minimum price regulation is the answer then how come the likes of Germany and France don't have such a troubled drinking culture. Drink in Germany/France and Spain is actually cheaper than here, yet funnily enough, they don't have a drinking problem.
It's much more deep rooted than that, but the goverment aren't actually bothered to go into it.


Cheap drink= Rampant alcohism therefore raise prices to stamp out alcohism is simplistic nonsense and indeed just a smokescreen and a way to keep the Publician cartel happy and provide a higher stream of taxation.

Blatter

DarkJager wrote: »

Would someone who might have the knowledge mind explaining how they could possibly enforce this? At the end of the day, the price of a product is up to the producer of that product. If Dutch Gold want to sell 4 cans at an RRP of 5e, how the hell could the government interfere in that and tell them what they should charge?

By making a law which enforces minimum prices. The same way they make other laws and put them into practice

the nikkei is rising

awec wrote: »

Varadkar is on twitter, feel free to let him know your opinion on this.

https://twitter.com/campaignforleo

'Government Minister, fitness fan'

The man is skinnyfat, his only claim to fitness is not being obese he's a fitness fan the same way I'm a fan of extreme sports, purely as a spectator.

It's also pointless to label the calories in alcohol as they're fundamentally different in effect to the calories in food.

animaal

drumswan wrote: »

Homebrewing hasnt been about 'producing hooch in the bath' since the 1980s. Decent quality kit beers can be produced easily by anyone and nothing can 'go wrong' other than producing less than optimal flavours.

I agree entirely, and if I go down this route, I'll be using decent, sanitary, properly-maintained kit to produce safe wine and/or beer. But will everybody? Look at the health issues that can result from improper production of poitin or moonshine.

Homebrewing is fine if it's done by people with a real interest - typically such people are willing to invest the time and money required. But pushing people away from professionally-produced products is not wise.

anncoates

DarkJager wrote: »

Would someone who might have the knowledge mind explaining how they could possibly enforce this? At the end of the day, the price of a product is up to the producer of that product. If Dutch Gold want to sell 4 cans at an RRP of 5e, how the hell could the government interfere in that and tell them what they should charge?

That's like saying why can't LIDL import a load of machine guns and sell them here at reasonable prices?

DarkJager

Blatter wrote: »

By making a law which enforces minimum prices. The same way they make other laws and put them into practice

But surely the government of any country enforcing a price level on a consumer industry is completely out of their remit? It's the same as if Penneys were suddenly told they can't sell clothes for less than 5e. The government have absolutely no right or mandate from the people to enact such a rule.

handlemaster

this is just trying to gain votes. its stupid, free market should decide prices.let the idiots that want to drink to excess do so. anyone over a certain alcohol level that has an accident should pay the full cost of the services used for them.

Wurzelbert

DarkJager wrote: »

Would someone who might have the knowledge mind explaining how they could possibly enforce this? At the end of the day, the price of a product is up to the producer of that product. If Dutch Gold want to sell 4 cans at an RRP of 5e, how the hell could the government interfere in that and tell them what they should charge?

and who would bag the difference anyway? the shops? if so, i am going to open an off-licence as soon as that comes into effect...

awec

It's the whole "this is about health" bollocks that annoys me the most. Especially when the Vinters start waffling on about wanting responsible drinking legislation for years.

Noreen O'Sullivan, President of the VFI, please go fcuk yourself.

mikom

anncoates wrote: »

That's like saying why can't LIDL import a load of machine guns and sell them here at reasonable prices?

Is that special this Thursday or Sunday?

enricoh

The percentage of teenagers smoking is down from something like 30% 10 years ago to 20% now. Why the fall - high prices.
I reckon most of the problem drinking is done in the house now n not the pub. A local cop said since drinking at home really took off in the last 5 years the domestic violence has been mental.

If a couple had 60 quid for a night out they've 5 or 6 drinks each n taxi home n if an argument kicks off there is someone in pub to break it up.
60 quid in supermarket is 15 bottles of miller, 2 bottles of plonk and a 2 bottles of vodka- crazy.

Coming from a smoker, and no I don't own a pub - thank god!

suicide_circus

Has one of these "minimum price" policies ever been tested in the EU courts?

mikom

enricoh wrote: »

A local cop said since drinking at home really took off in the last 5 years the domestic violence has been mental.

I'm sure he factored in unemployment, tax stresses, money worries etc...........

obriendj

animaal wrote: »

I won't be voting for them next time. That's the only power we really have.

If FF were in power they probably would do the same.
It seems to be the solution for all governments. w

We have a small number of people who abuse alcohol and cause mayhem on the streets. Lets punish everyone.

anncoates

enricoh wrote: »

If a couple had 60 quid for a night out they've 5 or 6 drinks each n taxi home n if an argument kicks off there is someone in pub to break it up!

Please say you're joking.

Muahahaha

Flex wrote: »

Have to say, I find Leo Varadkar gleefully proclaiming how reasonable prices for Drinks in Ireland "is a thing of the past" very antagonising

Plus the smarmy way he said last night on RTE how they intend to act in tandem with Northern Ireland who are also introducing minimum prices. He was saying it gleefully as if to convey 'we're smarter than you'.

This is FG at their worst- they protect the publicans by introducing minimum prices in offies and they protect the big breweries by not allowing a ban on alcohol sponsorship in sport. They dress it all up under public health but at the end of the day who gains from this and who loses ?

Publican gains at it brings off licence prices closer to his own rip off prices
Breweries gain because they can continue marketing at teenagers by sponsoring sports
The general public (and especially the poorest in society) lose as they can't even afford to drink a few beers at home.

FG-the party of big business, unless you own one of these voting for them and their ilk is against your own interests.

I note FF are saying nothing about these new minimum prices, surprise, surprise from another party full of publicans :rolleyes:

This country really is insufferable sometimes. First they treat us like children by closing offies at 10pm, when that doesn't work they jack up the prices. Sickening stuff for the majority of people who are responsible drinkers who are now being treated like children by our 'betters'

anncoates

mikom wrote: »

I'm sure he factored in unemployment, tax stresses, money worries etc...........

It's a novel form of vintner propaganda.

Come to the pub, where somebody will break up your fights.

suicide_circus

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_alcohol_consumption_per_capita

I eagerly await the governments of France, Austria, Estonia and Germany introducing similar policies given that these countries consume more alcohol per capita than ireland.

jobbridge4life

Muahahaha wrote: »

Plus the smarmy way he said last night on RTE how they intend to act in tandem with Northern Ireland who are also introducing minimum prices. He was saying it gleefully as if to convey 'we're smarter than you'.

This is FG at their worst- they protect the publicans by introducing minimum prices in offies and they protect the big breweries by not allowing a ban on alcohol sponsorship in sport. They dress it all up under public health but at the end of the day who gains from this and who loses ?

Publican gains at it brings off licence prices closer to his own rip off prices
Breweries gain because they can continue marketing at teenagers by sponsoring sports
The general public (and especially the poorest in society) lose as they can't even afford to drink a few beers at home.

FG-the party of big business, unless you own one of these voting for them and their ilk is against your own interests.

I note FF are saying nothing about these new minimum prices, surprise, surprise from another party full of publicans :rolleyes:

This country really is insufferable sometimes. First they treat us like children by closing offies at 10pm, when that doesn't work they jack up the prices. Sickening stuff for the majority of people who are responsible drinkers who are now being treated like children by our 'betters'

And when this fails what will they turn to next? Further increases in price? Prohibiting supermarkets from retailing alcohol at all? Restricting off-licences to businesses that offer only on-licence drinking? Its insane.

mikom

jobbridge4life wrote: »

And when this fails what will they turn to next? Further increases in price? Prohibiting supermarkets from retailing alcohol at all? Restricting off-licences to businesses that offer only on-licence drinking? Its insane.

Quota selling.
No more than one six pack per person every two days.
Red tape will save Ireland............

MonkeyTennis

enricoh wrote: »

The percentage of teenagers smoking is down from something like 30% 10 years ago to 20% now. Why the fall - high prices.
!

and Education

mikom

MonkeyTennis wrote: »

and Education

and vaping.

kingtiger

suicide_circus wrote: »

Has one of these "minimum price" policies ever been tested in the EU courts?

just reading up on that now

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/scotlands-fight-for-minimum-alcohol-price-to-last-years.23383154

seems like good news, Leo can grandstand and spout as much bull as he wants

its going to be up to the EU courts to allow this Vinters backed legislation go ahead and this could take years

Muahahaha

If Leo continues on this crusade then there is no way I'm voting for his Gay Marriage. If he wants to deny ordinary members of the public the pleasure of a few beers at home on a Friday night then I'll happily vote to deny him the right to marry another man. I couldn't care less if the two issues aren't linked, he is taking the piss now with his smarmy attitude.

suicide_circus

I was just thinking....if there was an election tomorrow....there is literally no party or individual that I could happily vote for...not one...shytehawks the lot of them.

mikom

Muahahaha wrote: »

If Leo continues on this crusade then there is no way I'm voting for his Gay Marriage. If he wants to deny ordinary members of the public the pleasure of a few beers at home on a Friday night then I'll happily vote to deny him the right to marry another man.

Ah, lad, come on now.

munchkin_utd

Flex wrote: »

15 bottles for €15 isn't cheap at all, it's reasonable. We've become so accustomed to being ripped off <snip>

+1

for comparison, in Germany on a good day with a deal you'd be looking at 60 x 500ml bottles (of cheap but drinkable beer) for €15.
i.e. 3 crates of 20 bottles @€;5 per crate.
Normally you would pay €6 to €8 per crate for cheap beer, but thats still 40+ proper size 500ml bottles of 5% beer for your €15

and in Ireland, 15 x 330ml bottles of 4% schlop for €15 is considered really really really cheap?

old_aussie

Bye bye hotels.:)