The Pub trade is dying - Minimum price for Alcohol?

murpho999

Vintner's Federation on the news calling it good legislation.

Incredible stuff.

There was no issue at the height of the Celtic Tiger when pubs were packed and people were drinking more.
Now things get a bit tougher the licenced trade lobbies pub owning TDs and get their way.

It's pure protectionism that will affect most the sensible few who enjoy a drink at home and will do nothing to curb binge drinking as that is a cultural and social issue not an economic one.

mikemac1

So Fergus Finlay pulls a salary of 113k from a charity and now wants increased prices for the public? :mad:

How about himself taking a paycut!

murpho999

mikemac1 wrote: »

So Fergus Finlay pulls a salary of 113k from a charity and now wants increased prices for the public? :mad:

How about himself taking a paycut!

What has his salary for running a major charity (which is a large organisation) got to do with it in fairness?

cathalfallon

I read an article about Wetherspoons in the Irish Times yesterday: which painted Irish publicans in a bad light. Not they are ripping us off per se, but that they are failing to negotiate good deals with Diageo and Heineken. Apparently prices here are 20% higher than in the UK, on average.

jack presley

rarnes1 wrote: »

Northern Ireland are introducing the same time as us (for probably obvious reasons), and I seen 50p a unit mentioned up there.

That would convert to about 70c.

But of course the government would bang on a little extra. Maybe 75/80c a unit at a guess

That'd be €1.50-1.60 a can then which isn't really going to drive people back to pubs.

mikemac1

He wants to lead a campaign, takes funding from Diageo to do it and lobbys for price increases that will have no effect on him

Berserker

6541 wrote: »

I hope the market is flooded with cheap booze from the north and Europe.

The same pricing restriction is coming into place in NI, at the same time as the RoI, to avoid such an issue.

mikemac1 wrote: »

So Fergus Finlay pulls a salary of 113k from a charity and now wants increased prices for the public? :mad:

Another champagne socialist.

foggy_lad

Seen 5 teens about 14-16years old on Abbey street at the weekend and two of they were sporting liyre bottles of Smirnoff vodka bought in a pub on the street.

Teenagers and young adults 18-30 will buy alcohol no matter what the price is!

Publicans and shopkeepers found selling to those underage should lose their license and never get it back!


The Government are seriously out of touch if they think this measure will do anything except line the pockets of the many publican politicians around the country!

Richard Hillman

Does anybody else think that it is not a coincidence that the decline of the pub also falls in line with the rise of social networks.

Back during the Celtic Tiger the pub was the hub of everything but as the Tiger declined, the likes of Facebook and Twitter began to become more mainstream. The local pub used to be a place of physical social networking, a place where you could meet friends to discuss what is going on in their lives etc. Now I just have to look at my phone to see what all of my friends are up to. You dont have to go to a pub to chat to your mates anymore.

Another thing is watching sports matches. Pre 2006-7, if there was something on Sky Sports you would either go to the pub or around to a friends house. Now you can watch any big football match on a computer or even a phone.

The main attractions of a pub were to socialise, watch sports and drink. Now everybody has easy access to socialising (online) and it is easier than ever to watch sports from your home.

I know for me personally if I did not have social networks or online streaming for football matches I would definitely visit the pub more often.

The world has changed but the pub has not adapted to it.

Yiikes

Slippery slope. Look at the state of tobacco now compared to 15 years ago. Tobacco may be worse but we are only fooling ourselves to think the government will stop with a simple minimum price and small health warning. Raising the minimum price will be the alternative way to raising excise tax. Large health warnings to picture warnings? Silly to rule it out. We love to be first in these nanny type policies such as the smoking ban, plain packaging and banning legal highs such as Salvia . Shame they take no pride being near last in important social policies such as abortion.

Atlantic Dawn

rarnes1 wrote: »

Of course price works.


If people have a few extra quid that they spend on beer or wine and suddenly the price is trebled for example, without question consumption will fall.

Resulting in more pubs closing, the vested interests who are looking for this to "protect" their business are actually going to have a reduced level of income as people will now have to spend more of their disposable income when purchasing in the off trade.

Cienciano

Stuff like this makes me sick. Why don't the government try and educate people on alcohol and change attitudes? They were going to get rid of alcohol advertising with sport, that would have been a good step. Getting rid of the association of having to drink to celebrate sporting events. But no, that will upset the likes of Diagio.
Our health minister is supporting the vintners associations that were against the smoking ban and the stricter drink driving laws.
As usual the only way our government can come up with a way of fixing a problem (which is reducing all the time anyway) is to make us pay more for it. We're already paying one of the highest prices in europe for it, but fúck it, pay more.
And people in the last Leo Varadkar for some reason thought he was a great lad, different to our usual politician

Bobeagleburger

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Resulting in more pubs closing, the vested interests who are looking for this to "protect" their business are actually going to have a reduced level of income as people will now have to spend more of their disposable income when purchasing in the off trade.

That's their problem.

It's up to them to bring people back to the pubs.

Remember, pubs charging outrageous prices are already packed to the rafters all over the country every weekend.

Capt'n Midnight

SeanW wrote: »

More trips to Enniskillen for me, it seems ...

nope, they are doing the same up north or so the radio news said

goose2005 wrote: »

That's a curious segue. After all, the cost of producing alcohol itself is very low, so I'd imagine it would be possible to sell below the minimum and yet still make a profit.

http://www.beoir.org/community/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=8402

grain 6kg=€5
hops 150g@ €12/500g=€3.60
yeast 30c based on 10 brews/packet
lecky..about 2x2.2kw=4.8unit=80c
That's it isn't it?
Total........€6.70 for a 25l brew= 13.4c/pint

oppenheimer1

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

nope, they are doing the same up north or so the radio news said

http://www.beoir.org/community/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=8402

And thats for small scale production. I guess the real expense for mass market, main stream beers is not the product itself, but the marketing.

There's little difference in the quality of product used to make guinness versus dutch gold. The major difference is marketing

Banjo String

jack presley wrote: »

That'd be €1.50-1.60 a can then which isn't really going to drive people back to pubs.

Now, if the supermarkets want to outsmart the vfi, sell a can at (for example) €2.
That's way above the minimum price they (vfi/Govt) want.

But run a permanent, "buy one get one free" promo on them.

Is there any law preventing a supermarket giving stock away?

Flex

Banjo String wrote: »

Now, if the supermarkets want to outsmart the vfi, sell a can at (for example) €2.
That's way above the minimum price they (vfi/Govt) want.

But run a permanent, "buy one get one free" promo on them.

Is there any law preventing a supermarket giving stock away?

Certain types promotions are going to be banned, apparently, as part of this. I'd bet offers such as that will be

Halloween Jack

rarnes1 wrote: »

Of course price works.


If people have a few extra quid that they spend on beer or wine and suddenly the price is trebled for example, without question consumption will fall.

Not necessarily, when cigarettes were 88p I smoked 20 a day, they are now 10e, I smoke 20 a day...

Cienciano

Cienciano wrote: »

Getting rid of the association of having to drink to celebrate sporting events. But no, that will upset the likes of Diagio.

It will upset sports clubs up and down the country much more. Alcohol advertising and pubs advertising is a vital source of revenue for clubs. Banning it would be a disaster. There is absolutely no reason to ban it anyway, it has no connectin to alcoholism whatsoever.

I don't know why the government can just leave us alone to drink as we want and stop sticking their oar in. Though to be honest as most of my drinking is done in pubs this will have little effect on me.

Banjo String

Flex wrote: »

Certain types promotions are going to be banned, apparently, as part of this. I'd bet offers such as that will be

Be sure and let your local TD's what way you will vote should this be legislated for.

Sick of these **** trying to dictate how much I should drink, and how much I should pay for doing so.

Someone should introduce a maximum price for soft drinks while they're at it, shower of greedy cnuts.

VinLieger

Halloween Jack wrote: »

Not necessarily, when cigarettes were 88p I smoked 20 a day, they are now 10e, I smoke 20 a day...

Exactly we already have the second highest alcohol pricing in Europe and one of the highest binge drinking problems, the only logical conclusion to take from this is price is not a factor and people who want to get fall down drunk will continue to do so regardless of price

Flex

VinLieger wrote: »

Exactly we already have the second highest alcohol pricing in Europe and one of the highest binge drinking problems, the only logical conclusion to take from this is price is not a factor and people who want to get fall down drunk will continue to do so regardless of price

Just on the binge drinking problem, I take issue with that binge drinking statement we hear so often. Reason being that in allot of people's minds 'binge drinking' conjures images of a person staggering around, vomiting, mumbling incoherently, etc. as a result of excess drink. However the HSE definition of a binge drinking session is actually just 3 cans of standard beer in a day for a man, less for women, which I believe is incredibly low and allows for false hyperbolic statements about how Ireland has a bad drinking culture to push this agenda.

For context, over Christmas my girlfriend and I had a bottle of wine together and I had a few bottles of craft stout beers while we sat in and chilled. Was a great relaxing day, but based on the HSE definition, both of us actually spent the day on a binge drinking session... But I digress!

I completely agree with you regards price not being effective at dealing with problem drinkers though. Although I've read it in studies, common sense alone would tell that an alcoholics elasticity of demand for alcohol is incredibly low. Further, there doesn't appear to be a strong correlation at all between high pricing and low addiction levels, or vice versa.

Richard Hillman

There is a good day of sport on Tv on Saturday. spurs-Arsenal at 12.30, Ireland-Italy 2.30, Everton-Liverpool 5.30. That would be a good 7 hours in a pub for a lot of people and probably about 7 pints.

Why don't they ban sport on Tv in pubs? Nope, because the publicans won't like it.

Geuze

cathalfallon wrote: »

I read an article about Wetherspoons in the Irish Times yesterday: which painted Irish publicans in a bad light. Not they are ripping us off per se, but that they are failing to negotiate good deals with Diageo and Heineken. Apparently prices here are 20% higher than in the UK, on average.

Yes, well known for years.

Beer made in Dublin, but sold for less in NI than in Dublin.

Not due to taxes.

Indeed, excise is HIGHER in the UK.

Yet beer is cheaper, as the brewers must charge less.

deco nate

So... Is the price of drink going up in pubs also? Seeing as they have so many overheads??
If it goes up for one group of sellers, surely it must go up across the board?

hatrickpatrick

The EU hasn't yet ruled on the Scottish law, doesn't that mean this cannot be implemented?
I'm not sure if the EU itself would stop the government from implementing it, or a challenge from a drinks company would be required, but I reckon either a supermarket or a brewer here will take a case anyway if it's the latter.

harrymagina

Min price on alcohol will just cause pubs to close down and people just going to friends houses to drink. Loss of jobs, further deflation of property prices. Binge drinkers will continue to drink because of off license prices and will drink more as off license is cheaper

RobYourBuilder

They government scraped through the water charges protests and even managed to regain some ground in the polls. Now they want to introduce this;

A bottle of wine would cost a minimum of €8.80 and a can of beer at least €2.20 under proposals aimed at outlawing cheap alcohol sales.

The move is part of Health Minister Leo Varadkar's vow to end the sale of cheap drink, which he believes is fuelling the nation's drink problem.

Cigarette packet-style health warnings and calorie counts on alcohol labels would also be made compulsory under new legislation.

Mr Varadkar got Cabinet approval yesterday for the Heads of the proposed Public Health (Alcohol) Bill 2015, which will set a minimum price for drink sales.

The legislation, due this summer, will mean new restrictions on advertising, marketing and sponsorship.

Environmental health officers will be given strong powers of enforcement.

But the law stops short of banning drinks sponsorship of sporting events.

The Irish Independent understands the Department of Health is examining introducing a minimum price of between 9c and 11c per gram of alcohol. That means the minimum cost of an unit of alcohol - about half a pint of beer or a small glass of wine - will be set between 90c and €1.10.

If the higher price is imposed, it means a bottle of wine could not be legally sold for less than €8.80 and a can of beer for €2.20.

If the Government opts for the lower price option, a bottle of wine will cost at least €7.20 and a can of beer €1.80.

Mr Varadkar said: "The days of 15 cans or bottles of beer being sold for €15 is of the past.

"Most Irish adults drink too much and many drink dangerously."

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/health/drink-blitz-sees-bottle-of-wine-rise-to-9-minimum-30962996.html

People are going to go spare. A bottle of the cheapest wine and six beers will work out at €22! Fck that for a game of soldiers. A lot of people have been priced out of going to the pub, now they will be priced out of having a few at home to wrap up the week.

worded

I'm less likely to drink in pubs now with this BS going on.

100 euro for a night out, no thanks, I can do lots with a 100 euro.

Dirty Steve

Jesus, if they're looking to push the price of a can to €2.20 and Wetherspoons are selling pints for €2.50; they should clear up.

I wonder what the government is going to do to tackle the Wetherspoons problem..