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Bisexual men

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    #32
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    I'm a bisexual female so I know it's extremely hypocritical for me to say this, but I wouldnt date a bisexual man.

    I guess it's just a personal preference so I don't think I should be flamed too much for it :P


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    #33
    Sardonicat
    Registered Users Posts: 12,378 ✭✭✭✭Sardonicat


    Mr. Loverman wrote: »
    FYI

    http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/topics/msm/index.htm

    Quick summary:

    "In 2007, men who have sex with men were 44 to 86 times as likely to be diagnosed with HIV compared with other men".
    Firstly, these are US figures, not Irish.

    Secondly, a margin of 44 to 86 % is indicative of very dodgy research.

    People who practice a lot of unsafe sex with a lot of partners are more likely to contract an std. The only thing you know about this man is that he is bisexual. you cannot make this kind of an assumption based on that piece of infromation alone.


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    #34
    Ickle Magoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,485 ✭✭✭✭Ickle Magoo


    Mr. Loverman wrote: »
    I can get you the Irish statistics if you want. They follow a similar trend.

    I agree safe sex should be common sense, but it obviously isn't for many people. (For example, we've had a chlamydia epidemic in Europe for about three decades).

    Similar trend to what? Your assumption that every man who identifies as bi is having sex with other men or is promiscuous or careless about condoms?

    Still not following what possible relevance that has to the topic at hand.


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    #35
    ztoical
    Registered Users Posts: 4,788 ✭✭✭ztoical


    Sardonicat wrote: »
    A fact is it? Because we all know that bisexuals are more promiscuous and never parctice safe sex.

    I hate to break it to you, but that's nothing more then a stereotype.

    It has nothing to do with Bi's being more promiscuous its simply the fact that anal sex holds a higher risk for spreading certain STI's, vaginal sex isn't that far behind and further down the risk is much lower for two women. This is not saying that lesbians can't catch STI's, there are plenty that are spread just via skin to skin contact but the major ones that people worry about like HIV statiscally lesbians have a very low rate of infection.

    Sadly Ireland still has a really crap attitude to STI's, the majority of everyone's focus is still on the 'fear' of pregnancy. When I lived in New York it was very common for people to ask when you'd last been tested and I wouldn't dream of having unprotected sex with a long term partner no matter how long we'd been dating without us both being tested.


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    #36
    Mr. Loverman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,001 ✭✭✭Mr. Loverman


    Sardonicat wrote: »
    Firstly, these are US figures, not Irish.

    Secondly, a margin of 44 to 86 % is indicative of very dodgy research.

    People who practice a lot of unsafe sex with a lot of partners are more likely to contract an std. The only thing you know about this man is that he is bisexual. you cannot make this kind of an assumption based on that piece of infromation alone.

    The CDC are highly respected. Their research is not dodgy.

    The reason for the large margin is due to racial issues.

    Why do you want to believe the statistics are wrong?

    Ickle Magoo wrote: »
    Similar trend to what? Your assumption that every man who identifies as bi is having sex with other men or is promiscuous or careless about condoms?

    Still not following what possible relevance that has to the topic at hand.

    Please stop with the straw man attempt. I have not said every man who identifies as bisexual is promiscuous or careless about condoms.


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    #37
    Ickle Magoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,485 ✭✭✭✭Ickle Magoo


    Mr. Loverman wrote: »
    Please stop with the straw man attempt. I have not said every man who identifies as bisexual is promiscuous or careless about condoms.

    You jumped into a discussion about whether adult women would consider a relationship with a bi-man shouting warnings and waving around american statistics - again, what relevance?


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    #38
    AnneElizabeth
    Registered Users Posts: 519 ✭✭✭AnneElizabeth


    Eve_Dublin wrote: »
    On a related note, I live with a girl from Canada who would be quite conservative in many ways (she comes from a very traditional Greek background in Canada) and she´s been going out with a guy for over a year. Before she met him, I hung out with him a few times and he told me pretty nonchalantly that he was bisexual...but he hasn´t told my housemate! We were friends before we moved in together and I feel bad knowing this piece of info that could actually make or break them (I could be wrong...just a gut instinct). Do you think she has a right to know?
    Eve_Dublin wrote: »
    No, your right, their relationship is their business and I wouldn't dream of telling her anyway but I find it awkward knowing something that's more her business than mine. They've been going out over a year now though...they're both 40 and they're talking marriage and kids. She wants to get proposed to in the next year. I'm just curious as to how she would take it...she's shockingly conservative on so many issues.

    First of all: Are you sure she doesn't know? And is he genuinely bi? If so..

    What you SHOULD do is tell him you do not feel comfortable knowing something which you are not allowed to tell her. He's making you be a bad friend to the girl by asking you to keep that secret. He has no right to do that.
    Tell him that he has to tell her the truth, he's being unfair to her and you.

    That way you are not being a bad friend to her and he is being honest with her. And you don't have to get involved

    (I've had experience with this kind of thing before)

    (And before anyone says it's mean - no it's not - it's the right thing to do. If she'd have no issue with him being bi then why not tell her. And if she would have an issue with him being bi - then she has a right to know. How humiliating would it be for her if everyone (including her friends) knew he was bi except for her).


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    #39
    Mr. Loverman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,001 ✭✭✭Mr. Loverman


    Ickle Magoo wrote: »
    You jumped into a discussion about whether adult women would consider a relationship with a bi-man shouting warnings and waving around american statistics - again, what relevance?

    The greatly increased risk of contracting a fatal STI is relevant to the topic. Why would you prefer people don't know this fact?

    I understand you are saying "everyone should get tested before they have sex without a condom" but in reality that doesn't happen very often.


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    #40
    Ickle Magoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,485 ✭✭✭✭Ickle Magoo


    It's not at all relevant to the topic of whether women would get involved with a bi man. We are all adults, I really can't see why you feel you should jump into such a discussion like we're all so naive we require you to give us warnings. I know men who identify as bi who have had little to no contact with other men and I know straight men who have had sex minus condoms left, right and centre. Risks are everywhere and we all need to take responsibility for our own safety.


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    #41
    Sardonicat
    Registered Users Posts: 12,378 ✭✭✭✭Sardonicat


    ztoical wrote: »
    It has nothing to do with Bi's being more promiscuous its simply the fact that anal sex holds a higher risk for spreading certain STI's, vaginal sex isn't that far behind and further down the risk is much lower for two women. This is not saying that lesbians can't catch STI's, there are plenty that are spread just via skin to skin contact but the major ones that people worry about like HIV statiscally lesbians have a very low rate of infection.

    Sadly Ireland still has a really crap attitude to STI's, the majority of everyone's focus is still on the 'fear' of pregnancy. When I lived in New York it was very common for people to ask when you'd last been tested and I wouldn't dream of having unprotected sex with a long term partner no matter how long we'd been dating without us both being tested.
    I understand the rissks of anal sex. but all we know about this guy is that he is Bi. Not all men who sleep with men engage in anal sex. Also, this is not an excusively man on man preference either.


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    #42
    Mr. Loverman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,001 ✭✭✭Mr. Loverman


    Ickle Magoo wrote: »
    It's not at all relevant to the topic of whether women would get involved with a bi man. We are all adults, I really can't see why you feel you should jump into such a discussion like we're all so naive we require you to give us warnings. I know men who identify as bi who have had little to no contact with other men and I know straight men who have had sex minus condoms left, right and centre. Risks are everywhere and we all need to take responsibility for our own safety.

    The more information people have the better.

    Frankly I find it a bit worrying you would prefer people don't know about the increased risks.

    Sardonicat wrote: »
    I understand the rissks of anal sex. but all we know about this guy is that he is Bi. Not all men who sleep with men engage in anal sex. Also, this is not an excusively man on man preference either.

    Would you rather people didn't know about the increased risks?

    Why?


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    #43
    Ickle Magoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,485 ✭✭✭✭Ickle Magoo


    It's not about preferring people didn't know - it's treating other posters like adults who are well aware of the risks and the precautions they should be taking and carrying on a general discussion about whether they would ever enter into a relationship with a bi man with the assumption they are not irresponsible idiots who can't take care of their own sexual safety.


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    #44
    Sardonicat
    Registered Users Posts: 12,378 ✭✭✭✭Sardonicat


    Mr. Loverman wrote: »
    The more information people have the better.

    Frankly I find it a bit worrying you would prefer people don't know about the increased risks.




    Would you rather people didn't know about the increased risks?

    Why?
    Increases risks of what? Sleeping with bi-sexual men? Or not practicing safe sex? Cos if you practice the latter the first is irrelevant.


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    #45
    Mr. Loverman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,001 ✭✭✭Mr. Loverman


    Ickle Magoo wrote: »
    It's not about preferring people didn't know - it's treating other posters like adults who are well aware of the risks and the precautions they should be taking and carrying on a general discussion about whether they would ever enter into a relationship with a bi man with the assumption they are not irresponsible idiots who can't take care of their own sexual safety.

    Many people aren't aware of the greatly increased risk. For example, we can see from this thread that Sardonicat wasn't aware of it. This post.


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    #46
    Mr. Loverman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,001 ✭✭✭Mr. Loverman


    Sardonicat wrote: »
    Increases risks of what? Sleeping with bi-sexual men? Or not practicing safe sex? Cos if you practice the latter the first is irrelevant.

    But we know many people do not require their partner gets tested for STIs before having latex free relations.

    If they did we would not have a chlamydia epidemic in Europe.

    I really don't understand why you are being so defensive about this issue. The statistics don't lie.


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    #47
    Sardonicat
    Registered Users Posts: 12,378 ✭✭✭✭Sardonicat


    Mr. Loverman wrote: »
    But we know many people do not require their partner gets tested for STIs before having latex free relations.

    If they did we would not have a chlamydia epidemic in Europe.

    I really don't understand why you are being so defensive about this issue. The statistics don't lie.
    I do however require that my partner is checked, and bisexual people are not the only people who carry stis. So for you to say I am unaware of the risls of unsafe sex is

    A, inaccurate
    B, insulting to me.

    Statistics alone tell you nothing without the full background information into how they were complied. Anyone with even the most rudiment knowledge of social research will tell you that.

    You are deliberatetly conflatin bisexuality with unsafe sex and sexual transmitted disease. They are not synomymous and to do so smacks of an agenda on your part.


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    #48
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 50,630 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I don't think I would date a man who is bisexual. Mostly because I think that his sexual needs would be more than that of a hetrosexual or homosexual man and I would feel that I would not be able to fulfill those needs. I may well have it completely wrong, and I don't know (as far as I'm aware) any bisexual men so this opinion could be changed but that's how I feel at the moment.


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    #49
    Nevyn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 43,045 ✭✭✭✭Nevyn


    Yes I would.


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    #50
    Mr. Loverman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,001 ✭✭✭Mr. Loverman


    Sardonicat wrote: »
    I do however require that my partner is checked, and bisexual people are not the only people who carry stis. So for you to say I am unaware of the risls of unsafe sex is

    A, inaccurate
    B, insulting to me.

    Statistics alone tell you nothing without the full background information into how they were complied. Anyone with even the most rudiment knowledge of social research will tell you that.

    You are deliberatetly conflatin bisexuality with unsafe sex and sexual transmitted disease. They are not synomymous and to do so smacks of an agenda on your part.

    I never said you personally are unaware of the risks of unsafe sex or have unsafe sex (although your first post on the matter suggests you were unaware of the risks).

    You are creating a straw man argument.


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    #51
    Sardonicat
    Registered Users Posts: 12,378 ✭✭✭✭Sardonicat


    Mr. Loverman wrote: »
    I never said you personally are unaware of the risks of unsafe sex or have unsafe sex.

    You are creating a straw man argument.
    I don't think you fully understand the meaning of the term "straw man". If you did, you would refrain from resorting to them yourself.

    You posted a link to a post I made, stating that it was proof that I was unaware of the risks of sleeping with bi-sexual men. You are the one conflating bisexuality and the prevelance of sti's. Anyone can get an sti if they do not practice safe sex.


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    #52
    Mr. Loverman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,001 ✭✭✭Mr. Loverman


    Sardonicat wrote: »
    I don't think you fully iunderstand the meaning of the term "straw man". if you did, you would refrain from resorting to them yourself.

    You posted a link to a post i made, stating that it was proff that I was unaware of the risks of sleeping with bi-sexual men. You are the one conflating bisexuality and the prevelance of sti's. Anyone can get an sti if they do not practice safe sex.

    I pointed out the fact that men who have sex with men are far more likely to be HIV+.

    You interpreted this as me saying you personally have unsafe sex.

    I never said that. Yet I am having to defend saying that.

    That is why you are attacking a straw man.

    I am sorry this is a sensitive issue for you but I think it is better everyone is aware of the increased risks. My posts are informative whereas you have attempted to refute/hide the increased risk.

    Would you prefer I did not post the statistics? Why?


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    #53
    rainbow kirby
    Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 26,928 Mod ✭✭✭✭rainbow kirby


    Sardonicat wrote: »
    Anyone can get an sti if they do not practice safe sex.
    Just going to emphasize this right here. It is the responsibility of both partners (regardless of sexual orientation) to practice safe sex.
    Mr. Loverman wrote: »
    I pointed out the fact that men who have sex with men are far more likely to be HIV+.

    You interpreted this as me saying you personally have unsafe sex.

    I never said that. Yet I am having to defend saying that.

    That is why you are attacking a straw man.

    I am sorry this is a sensitive issue for you but I think it is better everyone is aware of the increased risks.

    You've made your point. No need to keep hammering on.


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    #54
    Pembily
    Registered Users Posts: 14,404 ✭✭✭✭Pembily


    Statistics can be used to show whatever you need them to show... They may not 'lie' as such but can be portrayed to show numbers however you need them to be!?


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    #55
    Ickle Magoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,485 ✭✭✭✭Ickle Magoo


    Well, if they weren't before, everyone on this thread certainly is aware that safe sex should be practised now - so can we get back to original topic please.


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    #56
    ztoical
    Registered Users Posts: 4,788 ✭✭✭ztoical


    Sardonicat wrote: »
    I understand the rissks of anal sex. but all we know about this guy is that he is Bi. Not all men who sleep with men engage in anal sex. Also, this is not an excusively man on man preference either.

    I was simply replying to the comment about why assume higher risk for STI's for certain groups. Regardless of wither people like it or not the CDC and other medical groups would consider Bi males a high risk group. As for why it's relevant to this thread as someone else was asking it is because Irish people in general have a very much "doesn't happen here" attitude when it comes to STI's that frankly needs to change. Just look at the number of posts in PI with people freaking out about unprotected and their main focus is always pregnacy.

    Girls are far more likely to claim or identify as Bi without actually having any history of physical relationships with women then a man is likely to identify as bi and never have had a physical relationship with another man. For a while it became fashionable [and bloody annoying] for young women to say they were bi but if you dared show them lady bits and suggest they touch they'd run a mile.

    In answer to the OP of the thread in general I wouldn't have an issue with dating someone who identified as Bi as someone who has dated both genders but if as implied here all I know is that they are bi and no other details what so ever then I would not engage in a sexual relationship. Same answer would be given if the bloke was straight and all I knew about him was that and nothing else.


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    #57
    pastry2010
    Registered Users Posts: 193 ✭✭pastry2010


    I personally don't think I could, My best friend went out with someone who was Bi- and it was a bit of a rollercoaster, and they broke up then he started dating a friend of them both - a male, it really turned her world upside down. It did make me thing - I don't think I could handle that!Theres only 1 thing worse for a girl and a guy leaving them for another girl is terrible but leaving them for a guy is worse!Only my opinion tho!


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    #58
    NoseyMike2010
    Registered Users Posts: 420 ✭✭NoseyMike2010


    I always thought you are gay/bi if you are the receiver.

    Actually if you are a blood doner .... are you not suppose to give blood if you have slept with a gay/bi man? or if your a guy who has slept with another guy??

    I have never fully understood why a guy who has slept with another guy can't give blood??


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    #59
    Sardonicat
    Registered Users Posts: 12,378 ✭✭✭✭Sardonicat


    NoseyMike2010 wrote: »
    I always thought you are gay/bi if you are the receiver.

    Actually if you are a blood doner .... are you not suppose to give blood if you have slept with a gay/bi man? or if your a guy who has slept with another guy??

    I have never fully understood why a guy who has slept with another guy can't give blood??
    I don't understnd what you mean by your first sentence.

    Yeah, you are right about the second point.


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    #60
    NoseyMike2010
    Registered Users Posts: 420 ✭✭NoseyMike2010


    I was probably a rude prick!! If you are the receiver I always thought it meant you were gay. Me being stupid i guess.

    The blood thing is true. I am sure I read it last time I donated.


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    #61
    rainbow kirby
    Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 26,928 Mod ✭✭✭✭rainbow kirby


    Actually, labels are based on self-identification and attraction rather than behaviour - for this reason, the label "MSM" - "men who have sex with men" is used in the literature rather than "gay" or "bi".


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