German man castrates teenage daughter's 57-year-old boyfriend

Dudess

GaryMunster wrote: »

Pervert preying on a a naive teen

How do you know she was naive? How do you know he was preying on her?

I would rather live in my world rather than your world where you think this is acceptable for a 17 year old to shag a 57 year old.

Who said it was acceptable? Do you really think objecting to castration therefore means the relationship is considered acceptable?

goat2 wrote: »

a sister of mine came home with an older man, our old man showed him an instrument for chopping wood, and told him go for the road and close the gate on his way out, and never come near his daughter again, ha ha ha, it worked

Pathetic. Why the possessiveness over his daughter?

twinytwo wrote: »

And i suppose if it was your own daughter you would be ok with it, maybe even give the guy your blessing

No? Where was it even indicated that that would be the case?

Lol at how those who think castration is fucking sick, especially when the girl originally gave her consent, have been labelled the "holier than thou" ones.

IrishB.ie

Dudess wrote: »

No? Why is that straw always clutched here? A person saying it's not illegal doesn't mean they approve of it.

Its not clutching that straw. It thrown at us with your clear statement about pubescent children.

Dudess wrote: »

What's my opinion? That paedophilia is sexual attraction to/sexual abuse of pre-pubescent children? No it's not merely my opinion. Sex with children after puberty is not necessarily right, but it's not paedophilia.

I never said sex with children after puberty was paedophilia.

Dudess

Perhaps you misunderstood what I said originally: that sex with teenagers is not paedophilia, only sex with children is (as in, young pre-adolescent ones). It is straw-clutching to state that I then therefore would condone a 12-year-old girl (why only girl?) having sex.

I wouldn't see it as a great thing at all for an octogenarian to be riding late teen/early 20-something girls, whereas loads of people who post here do - no doubt plenty of the moral crusaders on this thread among them.

vibe666

too many posts to start multiquoting and replying individually.

with regards to the story itself, there is very little solid info on the circumstances of the attack and the circumstances could change the whole thing around. it seems very odd that the only thing that was reported was that the father got an anonymous call and just picked up a couple of mates and went round and cut yer mans nuts off.

they mentioned he'd already gone to the police but that they couldn't do anything, but they go into very little detail there either, or with regards to the daughter.

its possible that this man was a family friend who had been grooming this girl for years without anyone noticing until she was old enough for them to run off together. if this was going on and the girl who is now old enough to testify refuses to, there is nothing legally anyone could do to stop them.

maybe the father had tried every other avenue to try and save his daughter from a sexual predator before he went to see him and took his mates along with the intention of ruffing him up and making him leave town, but when they got there the guy goaded him to the point where he snapped and lost the plot completely.

there is definitely a lot more to the story than has been reported and all i can find is the same story syndicated to multiple news sites. the bottom line is that if no charges have been brought against the old guy then they can't go branding him a sexual predator, but that doesn't necessarily mean that he isn't one.

at the end of the day, maybe most of you guys wouldn't have done what this guy ended up doing in this particular event, but until that day comes (and i sincerely hope you never actually have to find out) you have absolutely no idea what you might be capable of under the right circumstances. trust me that "i'm a law abiding citizen, i would never do something like that" isn't going to be a thought that you will spend very much time on when someone you love has been violated and the police tell you they can do nothing.

when someone you love more than life itself is the victim of a sexual predator and you find out that it has happened and it totally tears you apart inside that you weren't there to stop it. so you go to the police for help only to be told that there is nothing they can do, even though they do believe you. you try to put it out of your mind, but it's everywhere and you can't think of anything else. you can't sleep, you can't eat, you feel physically sick all the time and nothing is making the pain go away. so eventually, out of desperation you call the guy to confront him and try to at least get him to understand what he's done and how much pain and suiffering he has caused, looking for something, an apology, anything at all to show he's human and has some sign of remorse, but all you get is filthy snide remarks rubbing your nose in it.

eventually you finally get face to face with the guy and you have him cornered but he still shows you nothing but contempt and taunts you again going into graphic detail of all the depraved things he's done to your loved one, goading you into a violent reaction, daring you to lay a finger on him so he can sue you.

if you can tell me then, on that day that you've no interest in carving pieces off of the guy then congratulations, you're a bigger man than I am and i salute you and your self restraint.

Dudess

Except your sexual predator/grooming stuff is completely hypothetical. Maybe you're right - hopefully not. But maybe it was a consensual relationship - still not ideal, but maybe she genuinely loved him, and he her. Extremely unusual, but not impossible.
Maybe you're right and he was driven to this act out of rage and devastation - it explains the act, it doesn't justify it though.

IrishB.ie

Dudess wrote: »

Perhaps you misunderstood what I said originally: that sex with teenagers is not paedophilia, only sex with children is (as in, young, pre-adolescent ones).

I have reread your original statement many times and only after reading your above statement did I realise, yes, I did take an individual comment out of context which led me on my "crusade". For that, I apologise.

Memnoch

Let's try and be honest here...

I'm not a girl, and SUPPOSEDLY they are supposed to mature faster than boys, but I remember when I was 17 and what an immature moron I was. I also remember when I was 20 and what an immature moron I was.

And that's where I think the "discomfort" lies. We all KNOW that someone that age, even though they are old enough to make their own decisions, doesn't really understand things/life to the extent they need to and DO need to be protected, again to an extent from those who might take advantage of this naviete.

The reality however is that we as societies have decided that there is an "age of consent," and that above this age, people (boys/girls) have the right to say "yes, I want to have sex with you." If we are unhappy about it we should change the law rather than engage in acts of viglante violence.

My instincts say that the 57 yr old is in the wrong (morally), maybe this is just social conditioning, because logically, it's not really up to the 57 year old is it?

By saying that X is the age of consent we are also saying that anyone older than X understands the decision they are making and are entitled to make it. And as much as we as parents etc might not agree with their decisions and know through our greater life experience that those decisions are mistakes we as a society have decided that we do not have a lawful right to intervene in those decisions.

The post earlier about some guy talking about how he would do the same to a 57 year old who went out with this 25 year old daughter struck me as a very patriarchal attitude. Because a 25 year old Woman is DEFINITELY capable of making her own decisions.

I don't have kids and maybe my views will change when I do. I do feel that if my 17 year old kid was having sex with a 57 year old it would make me DEEPLY uncomfortable, though I would like to HOPE that I would not resort to violence.

strobe

vibe666 wrote: »

with regards to the story itself, there is very little solid info on the circumstances of the attack and the circumstances could change the whole thing around.[........................................................................................]
if you can tell me then, on that day that you've no interest in carving pieces off of the guy then congratulations, you're a bigger man than I am and i salute you and your self restraint.

Well like you say Vibe, very little solid info.

Listen I get where you are coming from, and we could start saying "what if he was having sex with her since she was 10" or "when the father went around and tried to reason with him he laughed in his face about the fact he was riding his daughter" or "the man was mentally challenged and the girl instigated everything and was screwing him for his money" or "it was a loving relationship, the girl was very mature for a 17 year old and they planned to get married next summer and live happily ever after" or "etc".

But we can only go on the info provided. Which is, a 17 year old girl was having a relationship with an older man, the father didn't like it so he cut the guys balls off, which amounts to attempted murder. That's all we know so that's what I'm basing my comments on. We could speculate about this and that all day long but it's just speculation so what's the point?

orourkeda

"dey took my knob"

Moomoo1

Ridley wrote: »

...but it's not attempted murder is it?

nearly bleeding someone to death counts I think

OutlawPete

twinytwo wrote: »

And i suppose if it was your own daughter you would be ok with it, maybe even give the guy your blessing.. give over

If it was my daughter and she was 17 I would NOT get a knife and cut another man's testicles off and leave him bleeding' to death.

I don't think so little of my own sex that I can be so trivial about such a viciously evil act as castration.

Strange that I haven't once heard that Glynis Barber or Sharon Stone should similarly have their genitals mutilated if being with either of that lads that I suggested.

Moomoo1

vibe666 wrote: »

if you're in your mid-thirties plus, can you honestly tell me that when you look at a 17-18 year old girl you don't still see them as a child? i know the law says they're technically an adult, but just think of any 17-18 year old girl you know from family or friends and tell me you think of them as a proper grown-up who is fully equipped to make the decision to have sex with a 57 year old man and that morally speaking you'd be okay with them dating one?.

yeah

for the lion's share of human history, teenagers have been adults. Working with the adults, helping out with the care of their young siblings, getting married and having children. It's only in the (very) short space of time (virtually last 50-60 years) that we decided that they were kids. It wasn't so long ago that most people left school at 14 to earn their living.

I see them as adults. Some of them will be more equipped for a serious relationship, some less. But the only way you become equipped for a relationship is by having relationships.

Mrmoe

I can't understand the mentality behind the people who condone the castration of this man who essentially did nothing wrong. The only way such an action could be even morally justified is if he had sex without consent and all other avenues were exhausted. Even then do such an unfair and violent act is the mark of some one who has no respect for justice. Why is 17 different from 27 or 37? What criteria do you use for saying where the cut off mark is?

Moomoo1

OutlawPete wrote: »

If it was my daughter and she was 17 I would NOT get a knife and cut another man's testicles off and leave him bleeding' to death.

yeah

and something that people don't seem to have mentioned before: this is presumably a guy who your daughter has strong feelings towards. So by hurting him you are hurting _her_.

OutlawPete

vibe666 wrote: »

i'm 34 now and when i look at 17-18 year olds i still see children and i couldn't comprehend how anyone who is 57 could see anything but a child when they look at a 17 year old girl and it actually makes me feel queasy to even think of it.

So, you don't see this 17 year old as sexually attractive at all?

Or Sam Fox when she was a 17 year old Page 3 model?

orourkeda

OutlawPete wrote: »

So, you don't see this 17 year old as sexually attractive at all?

Or Sam Fox when she was a 17 year old Page 3 model?

I do

Craebear

I would have kicked the **** out of him but chop off his balls? Nah, that's a bit much..just a bit.

Bus77II

He originaly went round just to tell him to keep clear of his daughter. But then yer man put this record on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wj90OJW36p8

flash1080

I don't think the father should be jailed over it. Lots of people stab others, it's a part of life. It's breaking the law but so many people do it it should be legalised. There'd be a lot less crime if it was legalised, the government could introduce a tax of €5 per stab, and more emphasis could be placed on treating the person who had been stabbed.

Napper Hawkins

flash1080 wrote: »

I don't think the father should be jailed over it. Lots of people stab others, it's a part of life. It's breaking the law but so many people do it it should be legalised. There'd be a lot less crime if it was legalised, the government could introduce a tax of €5 per stab, and more emphasis could be placed on treating the person who had been stabbed.

Do you have a newsletter I can subscribe to?

flash1080

Napper Hawkins wrote: »

Do you have a newsletter I can subscribe to?

No.

vibe666

Dudess wrote: »

Except your sexual predator/grooming stuff is completely hypothetical. Maybe you're right - hopefully not. But maybe it was a consensual relationship - still not ideal, but maybe she genuinely loved him, and he her. Extremely unusual, but not impossible.
Maybe you're right and he was driven to this act out of rage and devastation - it explains the act, it doesn't justify it though.

righto, just for you, here's a totally smiley free post.

its all very well for all the keyboard warriors here to preach about what's right & wrong, but you have no idea what actually happened other than a few basic facts, yet you're all 100% totally convinced that there's no way the father was at all justified in what he did.

and you are 100% right that he could have been a perfectly innocent 57 year old duped by a 17 year old seductress for his money or other nefarious deeds and that the father could be a borderline mental case, but we'll probably never know exactly what drove the guy to do what he did.

what I do know however is that cutting someone's nuts off is in no way a reasonable act (yes, i agree with that also) so i choose to assume that if a man chooses to do something that heinous AND manages to convince two other people to do it with him, then there must have been some pretty extenuating circumstances for him to be driven enough to go to those extremes and i don't think having your almost adult daughter bring home a much older boyfriend (no matter how old) is enough on its own for that to be the case.

unlike the vast majority of people here though I DO have the benefit of having been in a somewhat similar situation 15 years ago when my fiancé at the time was raped at an office party. I also ended up taking the law into my own hands after we were let down by the police and the british legal system.

that "hypothetical" situation i posed in my previous post was pretty much exactly how it happened for me, except in my case i never actually caught up with him. i went to his house to confront him, but missed him by about an hour. everything before that is pretty much exactly how it went though. something i do know with certainty though is what i'd have done to him if he had been there and that if i HAD caught up with him i'd be typing this from behind bars right now and although i imagine i'd have plenty of regrets about how my life turned out, i'm still confident that wouldn't regret the act itself that would have put me there.

before anyone says it, i'm not some kind of gangster, i don't associate with criminal types and i had a good, although pretty meagre upbringing. i was taught right from wrong, i respect my elders, i hold doors open for people, i get up on the bus to let others sit down, i stand up when a lady enters the room, i pick up hitchikers, i let people out at junctions and i always try to live a good life and be good to those around me and help anyone i can whenever i am able because I know it's the right thing to do and besides anything else i actually WANT to do the right thing because i get enjoyment helping people out.

however, none of that matters even remotely when you're faced with a situation like that and every shred of civilised behaviour you have in you goes out of the window instantly. you can't think rationally at all, you can't eat, you can't sleep and exacting revenge is the only thought you can keep in your head for more than a few seconds.

if someone ever does something like that to someone you love more than anything else in the world, you will have absolutely no interest in the law or the police and the idea of spending life in prison for murder seems like a pretty fair deal to put an end to the person that caused you and your loved ones so much pain and suffering, so prison is not going to be any kind of deterrent at all.

all i'm saying is that i know how a parent thinks and i know how a close relative of the victim of a sexual predator thinks and the combination of those two things pretty much makes for an unstoppable force. i know all too well how a very bad situation can be handled very poorly and how an ordinary life can go totally pear shaped and lead you to do insane things quite literally in an instant. if things had gone only slightly differently for me 15 years ago, i could very easily have gone from a happy go lucky 19 year old without a bad bone in his body and the whole world ahead of me to becoming a stone cold killer.

nobody here, including me has any idea if that old guy did anything wrong or not BUT just because he hasn't been charged with anything, does not mean he hasn't committed any crimes. none of you have any idea what kinds of evidence or testimony this guy had from his daughter, other witnesses or even possibly the old guy himself yet you all judge his actions purely on the little evidence you have without taking any other possible considerations into account.

i choose to believe that for someone to do what the father did he had a very very good reason for it. its not like he just slapped him about a bit, it was a very personal gratuitous thing to do to someone with very clear sexual connotations of it being in retaliation for some kind of sexual crime and it's not something anyone is going to undertake for no reason, particularly with two people with him wo don't appear to have tried to stop him before he did it.

i imagine that there is a large percentage of parents would kill to protect their children and that the instinct to protect them doesn't just switch off when the law says they'e old enough to make all their own decisions. whether your kids are 5, 10, 17, 25 or 40 years old doesn't change that feeling. my sister is 44, my brother is 43 and i'm 34 years old and my mum still refers to us as "the kids" when she's talking about us and i know that she would still give her life to protect us from harm even now at 64 years old herself.

don't be so quick to judge someone's actions until you know ALL the facts.

strobe wrote: »

Well like you say Vibe, very little solid info...
...That's all we know so that's what I'm basing my comments on. We could speculate about this and that all day long but it's just speculation so what's the point?

that is EXACTLY my point. you can't take maybe 10% of the facts about the case and hang the guy out to dry based purely on that.

deciding that it is an open and shut case without knowing all the facts is no different than me choosing to assume that because of what happened there must be a lot more to it than has been reported and that there could easily be extenuating circumstances that were not reported in the press.

OutlawPete wrote: »

So, you don't see this 17 year old as sexually attractive at all?

Or Sam Fox when she was a 17 year old Page 3 model?

i've no idea who the first one is and tbh she's a bit of a minger, so no although even if she was attractive i'm not going to find a 17 year old child a turn-on no matter how dolled up they are. does that mean that i'm sick for not finding children attractive? sam fox i had a big crush on when i was a kid, but aside from the fact she's got tits in that pic, she doesn't look like a grown woman to me, so again no. my 14 year old niece has a pair too, am i supposed to find her sexually attractive as well?

OMG i'm a peadophobe. damn, i wish i hadn't decided to do a smiley free post.

Mr Melon

The preference for adolescent women is no evolutionary mystery. A woman is at her maximum reproductive capacity when she has reached puberty but has not borne any offspring.

Many tribal cultures have words for this state. The Yanomamo Indians of the Amazon refer to a woman as "moko dude", which translates roughly to “postpubescent but childless” or between about 14 and 18 years of age.

pickarooney

One of the hardest lessons you need to learn as a parent is that you need to let your kids make their own mistakes.

Mr Melon wrote: »

Many tribal cultures have words for this state. The Yanomamo Indians of the Amazon refer to a woman as "moko dude", which translates roughly to “postpubescent but childless” or between about 14 and 18 years of age.

Moko dude looks like a lady... but is legally and psychologically still a girl.

Fart

pickarooney wrote: »

Moko dude looks like a lady... but is legally and psychologically still a girl that needs a ride.

Yup, agreed.

Dudess

vibe666 wrote: »

righto, just for you, here's a totally smiley free post.

No it doesn't have to be just for me, how about for everyone you casually referred to as on their high horses, holier than thou, etc?

its all very well for all the keyboard warriors here to preach about what's right & wrong

How are they keyboard warriors when it is wrong to castrate?

but you have no idea what actually happened other than a few basic facts, yet you're all 100% totally convinced that there's no way the father was at all justified in what he did.

Nope. Even if he has a good explanation, even if it was somewhat understandable, he's not justified in what he did.

and you are 100% right that he could have been a perfectly innocent 57 year old duped by a 17 year old seductress for his money or other nefarious deeds

Did someone suggest he could have been duped by her? It's possible they simply really liked each other, why would either necessarily have an agenda? It's rare, but has been known to happen. You keep leaving out too the fact she gave her consent. There are quite a few overly possessive fathers out there with a bit too much interest in their daughters - look at all the crap some men spout about what fella their daughter brings home etc. Doesn't seem like protection to me at all, just some bullsh1t macho code. I didn't get on great with my dad growing up, but to be fair to him, he'd never carry on with that sh1te, unless he REALLY felt a guy wasn't a nice 'un for me.

i'm not going to find a 17 year old child a turn-on no matter how dolled up they are. does that mean that i'm sick for not finding children attractive?

No? Nobody implied that anywhere. Just because they said it's not abnormal for a man to fancy a teenager, doesn't mean they're saying it's weird for a man not to.

sam fox i had a big crush on when i was a kid

Why should your preference necessarily change as you get older though? (Before you get defensive, not saying it shouldn't). Back in the 80s she was a teenager but looked way older and had a woman's body.

my 14 year old niece has a pair too, am i supposed to find her sexually attractive as well?

Many men find developed teenage girls attractive - moreso ones who look older than they are. Nobody's saying men HAVE to though, as you know.

OMG i'm a peadophobe. damn, i wish i hadn't decided to do a smiley free post.

Y'see, you can make your points (many of which are good - I agree it's possible for people to be so blinded by the trauma of something awful happening to a person they love that they will do absolutely anything... STILL doesn't justify it though) without resorting to that passive-aggressive sh1t you know... as well as the looking down on those who don't share the same life experiences as you.

Shenshen

GaryMunster wrote: »

So just because I somewhat agree with what the father did for attacking a Pervert preying on a a naive teen, I must beat my gf?!?


I would rather live in my world rather than your world where you think this is acceptable for a 17 year old to shag a 57 year old. Do you think its ok for a 55 year old to shag a 15 year old then? Oh no because then the law thinks its wrong...

As has been pointed out again and again, age of consent in Germany is 14.

And why on earth is it such a big deal what age two consenting legal adults are when they're having sex?
And why is it reprehensible for the bloke, but not for the girl? Would you support it if her father had cut of her clit and labia, after castrating her boyfriend?

sensibleken

Good god this is like Adrian Kennedy. Just because you have kids that does not make you right about everything...or anything infact.

"the square root of 9 is 3"
"no its 5"
"I think youll find its 3"
"do you have kids?"
"no"
"well maybe when you do youll understand why its 5"

Pace2008

Vibe666, I am verry sorry to hear of that incident.

It does not however, give you a free pass to use pure conjecture as a device to bolster your argument. If that kind of thing is fair game, I could as easily assume the 57-year-old was not a predator, the liaison was consensual in every way, and the father was simply a violent scumbag who administered a punishment completely disproportionate to the crime. I heard, anecdotally, of a man in Finglas who cheated on the daughter of a drug dealer with whom he was going out. The dealer and his mates cut off his finger with a hedge clippers. So this kind of scenario isn't unheard of either.

And as Dudess has said, even if there's an element of truth to your hypothetical situation it is no excuse in any way for what happened.

There are two holes in the walls around my house that I've punched through in a fit of rage. I could describe to you my mindset at the time, the events that occurred that led me to fly off the handle, but it still wouldn't justify what I did.

Shenshen

vibe666 wrote: »

<snip really long post>

I would agree with the notion that the father could have a claim to temporary insanity, and that he thought he did what he did out of love for his daughter and with a feeling of parental responsibility.

But, and that's a big, bit but indeed, fathers all over the world do absolutely horrendous things out of that feeling of having to keep control as a parent, up to actually murdering their own children for not behaving the way they expect them to.
And that is just as inexcusable as cutting this guy's balls off.

I might open myself to accusations of racism, but the father in question is originally from Russia and is part of the "Spaetaussiedler", people who could claim German citizenship from the 90s onward if they had any German ancestry whatsoever up to 400 years ago.
Now, many of these people are normal and ok, but a significant part of them have rather... well, barbaric mindsets, for lack of a better world.
Some months ago one of them stabbed a lady to death in court, where she had sued him for slander and he was facing a 200.00 Euro fine.
I've had run-ins with members of that group in the past, and to my mind, there is no difference between this attempted murder and the honour killing of a girl by her Turkish father.

Both are done out of a sense of insulted honour, and show a deep disregard for the rights of others.