IMRA season 2011

Dunebuggy

I ran the Ultra in Speed Cross 2's last year - it worked for me!!

Coming out and down by the Hostel and the grass bank down to the river are slippy and the grass bank down to the foot bridge after crown and then the climb up over Djouce, You don't need it coming back at those points point as you are moving slower :-) (Well maybe not Enduro)

Coming back I was glad i had them, once you come off the sleepers - there is a great section where the grip helps you bound until you hit the trails into Crone.There was people(Trail runners) slipping all over the place on the descent off Djouce on the return leg - for Ultra runner the legs need the grip on the way back.

Many people were slipping today at the grassy top of Hellfire - so I wouldn't be relying on Road shoes for the trail unless we get some nice weather in the next two weeks.

Great course layed out by PeterX - Thanks :-)

Krusty_Clown

Dunebuggy wrote: »

Coming out and down by the Hostel and the grass bank down to the river are slippy and the grass bank down to the foot bridge after crown and then the climb up over Djouce,

That area is currently a lot soggier and slipper than I remember for the last two years of the trail race. I wore road shoes on a 'recce yesterday and fell three times heading from near the hostel to the bridge. I'm breaking in new shoes now, so I don't have to suffer the same problem in two weeks time.

donothoponpop

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

I'm breaking in new shoes now, so I don't have to suffer the same problem in two weeks time.

What'd you get?

Krusty_Clown

donothoponpop wrote: »

What'd you get?

I'm not a sucker for advertising at all. Salomon Crossmax. Now, how much is your snake-oil?
Living around 2 miles from my local trails in Carrigologan, these shoes should (hopefully) be ideal for my needs. Not sure about the quicklaces. Do these tend to loosen on the run?

ocnoc

quick lace system is ok. they tend to snap after a couple of hundred km. I currently have a pair in tatters from over use. Mainly down to an every day shoe.
Lacing system is gone. So i just wrap the lace around itself.
Still does the job

ThisRegard

Nah, the quick lace system is great, the only thing to be aware of is to tuck the ends into the tongue, I've forgotten before and nearly ended up with whip lash when they got caught in a branch, I was inches from a spectacular face plant.

donothoponpop

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Not sure about the quicklaces. Do these tend to loosen on the run?

Everyone feels unsure about these laces at first! They don't loosen. You can get replacements if they do break, but I've had far more issues with regular laces during races (unknotting). I've heard (a friend of a friend) who they broke when pulling, besides that everyone else seems happy with them. (For anyone interested, they are kevlar laces with a plastic locking system). My SpeedX2 have a pouch in the tongue to tuck in the plastic tie, so nothing is loose to catch on branches or whatever: I'm sure yours have this too. Best of luck with them!

jeffontour

I wore Mizuno Wave Harrier 3s on yesterdays run and was surprised by them in a good way. Grip is not inspiring on wet rock. Otherwise I thought they were ideal for the mix of terrain on that section of WW.

I've never worn Salomons so cannot compare the mizunos to them but relative to my inov8s and road shoes the wave harriers I found to be a nice middle ground.

trinewbie

Ran a recce of the trail route last week with Brian Furey, wetish conditions. I ran in Columbia ravenous and Brian was in DS Racers. Both of us came to the conclusion that a hybrid type shoe like the ravenous or a speedcross would be best suited to the course in its current conditions.

We found that, depending on your shoe choice, significant time can be gained /lost in the section between the end of the boardwalks at Djouce, to the river crossing (footbridge) at the bottom of the climb to ride rock. The traverse along the shoulder of Djouce is fairly cut up at the moment. Apart from this section any differences were fairly negligible.

Id forgotten how enjoyable the course is, its pure class.. Im prediciting some serious pain at the top of the fireroad and onto the rocky section above cutlestown on race day :eek:

Hopefully things dry up a bit before then

Fi H

I'm new to this but have changed recently from full trail runners to the ravenous and I have to say I loved them so much went out & got a second pair straight away (as they were on sale on amazon for $42)
They are really really comfy & I find I am no longer going over on ankles or slipping when attempting to run on rocks happy days! and they are stupidly light!

Mac Cormaic

Whats it like running on the sleepers? Are they slippy when wet, if wearing ordinary runners?

Antigrav

Mac Cormaic wrote: »

Whats it like running on the sleepers? Are they slippy when wet, if wearing ordinary runners?

Sleepers have fencing staples nailed into them and are not slippery. More of a problem is oncoming walkers/runners and getting stuck behind someone going slow.

The start of the Trail race used to be bad for short distance to start of sleepers, but with the extra 3k it has spread out by then.

jeffontour

Mac Cormaic wrote: »

Whats it like running on the sleepers? Are they slippy when wet, if wearing ordinary runners?

At times yes. I think it's more related to the staples that are hammered into them though. I find the staples do very little for grip when running on sleepers.

Just saw antigrav thinks differently though so best you go check for yourself probably!

nerraw1111

What's the Craic with overtaking on sleepers? Should you give way to runners trying to overtake? Or is it the case, you got yourself in that position and up chasers to step off to overtake?

Is it akin to triathlete tapping ankles in a swim to overtake?

T runner

nerraw1111 wrote: »

What's the Craic with overtaking on sleepers? Should you give way to runners trying to overtake? Or is it the case, you got yourself in that position and up chasers to step off to overtake?

Is it akin to triathlete tapping ankles in a swim to overtake?

Up to chasers to step off is the way usually. Race position is important in hill races for this reason: a chaser must take the position from you and its harder to do in hill races.

When passing on sleepers, a good strategy (if the situation arises) might be to accelarate on the sleepers before you pass and glide past in a few strides rather than stepping off the sleepers and then accelerating. Takes less energy.

Dunebuggy

T runner wrote: »

Up to chasers to step off is the way usually. Race position is important in hill races for this reason: a chaser must take the position from you and its harder to do in hill races.

When passing on sleepers, a good strategy (if the situation arises) might be to accelarate on the sleepers before you pass and glide past in a few strides rather than stepping off the sleepers and then accelerating. Takes less energy.

Just on the sleepers bit - if someone is coming towards you, as in running the Ultra. It would be nice if Trail runners would give way.

Slogger Jogger

Yep.. Ultra runners get precedence, for the sheer madness of them doing that Except for d'pop. Trail runners stand your ground

Raighne

Dunebuggy wrote: »

Just on the sleepers bit - if someone is coming towards you, as in running the Ultra. It would be nice if Trail runners would give way.

Traditionally, I have noticed the ultra runners giving way but this often seems to have been down to the standard rule that ascending runners give way to descending runners (which I think is the most practical rule for this). Second reason is that the fastest ultra runners (on the old course) where already turned by the time the Trail started so we used to hit the majority of ultra runners very early after the start when there was just a lot of jostling for position and fast starters going out.

With the remaining ultra runners settled well into a steady rhythm by this time, they seemed to naturally step aside, then again I never met one coming down as I was going up.

jeffontour

Raighne wrote: »

With the remaining ultra runners settled well into a steady rhythm by this time, they seemed to naturally step aside, then again I never met one coming down as I was going up.

The steady reference is key to this. Personally when I ran the ultra I found the interruptions to my steady pace due to making way for trail runners(not out of choice but necessity due to their clinging to the sleeper) very draining. For slower ultra runners stopping and starting is not easy, so if trail runners with a spring in their step could make way they they will get lots of sweaty hugs from ultra runners I'm sure once the race is done.
I'll miss the race this year but will think of you all from sunny Spain.

Slogger Jogger

Off topic but check out this photo from the Photography forum.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=71146221&postcount=66

Raighne

jeffontour wrote: »

The steady reference is key to this. Personally when I ran the ultra I found the interruptions to my steady pace due to making way for trail runners(not out of choice but necessity due to their clinging to the sleeper) very draining. For slower ultra runners stopping and starting is not easy, so if trail runners with a spring in their step could make way they they will get lots of sweaty hugs from ultra runners I'm sure once the race is done.
I'll miss the race this year but will think of you all from sunny Spain.

I still think the ascending/descending rule needs to take precedent. Jumping off the sleepers coming off the descent fast is not a great option. If there's a flat bit, I suggest a game of chicken is no harm...

Krusty_Clown

Raighne wrote: »

I still think the ascending/descending rule needs to take precedent. Jumping off the sleepers coming off the descent fast is not a great option. If there's a flat bit, I suggest a game of chicken is no harm...

Won't the ultra runners be descending, against a tide of ascending trail runners, so by your logic...

Raighne

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Won't the ultra runners be descending, against a tide of ascending trail runners, so by your logic...

That's an open question, the ascending/descending question has the advantage of being uncaring to whether the runner is a Trail or an Ultra runner.

Where the majority of encounters will occur I cannot answer as I am not familiar with the timings on the current extended version of the routes. In my two outings on the original course, all ultra runners I encountered were ascending (I met them coming off the first little knoll and then again at White Hill). Each racers experience of this is bound to differ depending on where in the field they are placed especially now that there will be a greater time differential between runners coming from both directions.

I imagine the amount of variables involved should make that a fairly significant mathematical feat (and a terrible loss of time for the person doing it).

Enduro

Slogger Jogger wrote: »

@Enduro - whats your footwear preference when it comes to the WW ultra?

If the weather and the ground is dry then road trainers get used. Otherwise trail shoes (as opposed to fell-runners). This year the weapon of choice would be Columbia Ravenous. Unfortunately I'll still be in a cast so I'm not going to make it. I definitely wouldn't be bothering with a change of shoes though. I've never had a problem running the whole route in one pair, whichever way the choice went. (All academic for me this year since I'll still, just about, be in a cast).

My recommendation would be to use trail shoes for it, unless you're a technically comfortable runner who can happily deal with slipping and sliding every now and again without it impacting your speed too much. You're not going to be running that fast that trail shoes will be too uncomfortable on the road home (plenty of other factors to cause bigger levels of discomfort!).

Dunebuggy

Raighne wrote: »

Traditionally, I have noticed the ultra runners giving way but this often seems to have been down to the standard rule that ascending runners give way to descending runners (which I think is the most practical rule for this). Second reason is that the fastest ultra runners (on the old course) where already turned by the time the Trail started so we used to hit the majority of ultra runners very early after the start when there was just a lot of jostling for position and fast starters going out.

With the remaining ultra runners settled well into a steady rhythm by this time, they seemed to naturally step aside, then again I never met one coming down as I was going up.

"Traditionally", the Race Directors request at the start of the Trail race has been for people to give way on the sleepers to Ultra Runners- for both the old course and the new course.

Raighne

Dunebuggy wrote: »

"Traditionally", the Race Directors request at the start of the Trail race has been for people to give way on the sleepers to Ultra Runners- for both the old course and the new course.

I have no recollection of ever having heard this raised in 2007 and 2008 (can't speak for other years), then again its not unheard of to not recall race director instructions given the frame of mind of the average competitor at the start of a race. My addition of the adjective "traditionally" was not meant to be attributed to the Trial/Ultra race specifically but with general mountain and fell running in general for which the ascending/descending rule applies.

But as a general rule, race director instructions must, of course, take precedence over any other rule on the day of a race whether they be logical or not or whether they make sense to the individual competitor or not.

Personally, I think the "give way to descending runners" is the most sensible rule and needs no further elaboration but running a race is no democracy so whatever this year's race director intends to uphold will be for runners to carry out. I have no issue with this, life is full of rules we have to comply with despite disagreeing with them or despite their utility being of dubious quality and perhaps let's leave the discussion at that as I don't see any ground for agreement here.

donothoponpop

Raighne wrote: »

Personally, I think the "give way to descending runners" is the most sensible rule

You're right, and it would be a foolish aspirant who would argue a path with a descender aided by gravity and momentum...

But the sleepers are more or less horizontal in the overall scheme of things, it would be nice if there was a bit of guidance beforehand. Personally, I think it should come down to size. If the incoming running is bigger, taller, fatter, (and perhaps balder) than you, stand aside...

Dunebuggy

Raighne wrote: »

I have no recollection of ever having heard this . My addition of the adjective "traditionally" was not meant to be attributed to the Trial/Ultra race specifically but with general mountain and fell running in general for which the ascending/descending rule applies.

I do agree with this as a principle if it was an uphill downhill scenario.

If you actually stick to this principal you may recall the actual amount of downhill on the sleepers is mainly on the run out from JFoxes. So its probably why the request is made by the RD...(not really a rule)

There is a nice horizontal part on the way over to Djouce, probably why the request is made to avoid those head on collisions - I think you probably need to run the Ultra for a true appreciation :-)

Fi H

Enduro wrote: »

This year the weapon of choice would be Columbia Ravenous.

For the record the pink ladies version is on sale up in 53 degrees north in carrickmines. Didnt check to see if any of the mens version is too but might be worth checking.

Stark

You had him at pink.