Being a young male in Ireland

thethedev

magneticimpulse wrote: »

Maybe its this attitude thats holding you back!!! Your "blaming" other people ( dare I say your single pointing the blame at women) for reasons why YOU are not getting a job!!!

You might want to re-evaluate your CV if your not getting jobs and your technique to applying for jobs. Not going off on one against women. At the end of the day, all jobs are equal opportunity. Just because you see "women" as being less qualified for the job, doesnt mean they have not proved themselves to be more capable or maybe even more mature at doing it.

Its everybody for themselves at the moment. Im a 30 year old female finishing a Chemistry PhD. I too will have to look for a job and will be up against many equally qualified men and women. So its my job to make a great CV which will stand out!! I have already lived abroad, including France and fluent in French.

You think its bad now? Back in 2002 when I got my degree I couldnt get a job in Ireland for the life of me. I moved to England and got many jobs...Id send my CV out and 2 weeks later would have 4 job offers. I moved around and at 30, I am still working towards my career and learning new stuff!!! Why? Because its always about adding that little bit extra to the CV and making me stand out from the rest. I aint going to go around and blame other people or have a chip on my shoulder!! Im going to put that time into developing me as a person, googling the net for how to do CV's etc. Training to get managing and leadership skills.

Its not because im a woman...its because thats whats got to be done in the job search!

Serious case of women in science syndrome.

Note the patronising and agressive attitude and the pure assumption that the OP is a dunderhead with no clue how to look for a job.
Its alright for you, you have Phd. Do you think you'd find a job easy with no qualifications, no connections, no experience? You say there where many jobs when you went to England? Well there's **** all here.

Anyway.....

Many young men are in an awful position now because of the way the building trades went. So many of us where enticed to leave school early by the enourmous wages being paid to FAS construction apprenticeships. And I dont think anyone can say we should have known better. Alot of us were only 16, I'm 22 now and I know 16 year olds and I can't think of them as adults.

I suppose we cant blame the government for everything. **** happens all the same.

But the fact that the high suicide rate in the demographic has never been fully explained or even properly tackled makes my blood boil.

"Slow down boys" "He drives, she dies" is another load of **** that we should tackle. It only adds to the feeling that some young men are having now, that we are persecuted and unwanted as though we are all to ****ing blame for societies ills.

I suppose no one really knows what role young men are supposed to play in society anymore, and when that happens the villain is probably the default setting.

Josh_Calvert

yeah it's pretty obvious women hire women.And it's pretty obvious in a frivolous service economy who's going to get hired first and repeatedly.

emigration isn't even that great an option....there isn't any economy with room to spare these days.

I remember a few years ago the big pharmacy in my town was hiring and they specified in all their ads that were only accepting applications from women.Not a squeak was heard about the illegality of such a recruitment campaign.

Kimia

Josh_Calvert wrote: »

I remember a few years ago the big pharmacy in my town was hiring and they specified in all their ads that were only accepting applications from women.Not a squeak was heard about the illegality of such a recruitment campaign.

I very much doubt this.

Josh_Calvert

why would I make it up? and why does it sound odd in a country that's overwhelmingly obsessed with women? have no-one noticed the power women have over here? mna na heireann have it all their own way.

And yes it did happen and yes I applied anyway and yes they sent me my cv back with a print off of their ad with 'only accepting applications from women' underlined.I won't say which branch but I will say it was Sam McCauleys.

By the way, the Curves franchise is also illegal.

28064212

Josh_Calvert wrote: »

why would I make it up? and why does it sound odd in a country that's overwhelmingly obsessed with women? have no-one noticed the power women have over here? mna na heireann have it all their own way.

Ha, based on what. There are gender biases in numerous areas, but you're off your head if you think it doesn't swing both ways

Josh_Calvert wrote: »

And yes it did happen and yes I applied anyway and yes they sent me my cv back with a print off of their ad with 'only accepting applications from women' underlined.I won't say which branch but I will say it was Sam McCauleys.

Did you report them? Why not?

Josh_Calvert wrote: »

By the way, the Curves franchise is also illegal.

No it's not

HavingCrack

Josh_Calvert wrote: »

And yes it did happen and yes I applied anyway and yes they sent me my cv back with a print off of their ad with 'only accepting applications from women' underlined.I won't say which branch but I will say it was Sam McCauleys.

By the way, the Curves franchise is also illegal.

Did you report them??? If you didn't they'll keep getting away with it.

The Curves franchise isn't illegal. There's lots of sports teams etc that are male or female only. I'm sure if there was a demand for a male only gym there would be one.

Josh_Calvert

maybe Im still paranoid about the 1990's but I HIGHLY doubt a franchise of male only gyms, especially in irish towns where there aren't any regular gyms, would be a goer without at least a fair sized hoo-ha.Anyway, on topic, Ireland is a **** country for young men.all we are is shouldabeen abortions and if we do get work our sole purpose is to prop up the property prices & pension plans of the babyboomers....

28064212

Josh_Calvert wrote: »

maybe Im still paranoid about the 1990's but I HIGHLY doubt a franchise of male only gyms, especially in irish towns where there aren't any regular gyms, would be a goer without at least a fair sized hoo-ha

It wouldn't be a goer because there wouldn't be a demand for it. I have no doubt there are numerous men's exercise groups up and down the country

Josh_Calvert wrote: »

Anyway, on topic, Ireland is a **** country for young men.all we are is shouldabeen abortions and if we do get work our sole purpose is to prop up the property prices & pension plans of the babyboomers....

As opposed to young women who get work?

Josh_Calvert

women aren't meant to 'have work' in that sense...it's purely a function of social engineering since the 1960s....men invent technology, advanced economies become service economies, women become flavour of the month,and young men who might otherwise have been sent off to die in some made up war are left hanging around feeling a bit useless.All men have is work- we have NO other function.All women HAVE to do is lay an egg.

it's a different experience for young men.however you are right that even if young women find work, their effort and taxes are still going to fat bellies of the generations who ****ed everything up.

Kimia

Josh_Calvert wrote: »

women aren't meant to 'have work' in that sense...it's purely a function of social engineering since the 1960s....men invent technology, advanced economies become service economies, women become flavour of the month,and young men who might otherwise have been sent off to die in some made up war are left hanging around feeling a bit useless.All men have is work- we have NO other function.All women HAVE to do is lay an egg.

it's a different experience for young men.however you are right that even if young women find work, their effort and taxes are still going to fat bellies of the generations who ****ed everything up.

Tbh, I can't really take your posts seriously. I mean, it's just nonsense really. All women have to do is lay an egg? Women aren't mean to 'have work'?

I'm all for gender equality, and I think that if there is a genuine case of discrimination I would be totally behind you and any man or woman that suffers it. But I can't respect someone who tries to argue for men's rights purely based on their own perceived persecutions, which to me, sound questionable.

28064212

Josh_Calvert wrote: »

women aren't meant to 'have work' in that sense...it's purely a function of social engineering since the 1960s....men invent technology, advanced economies become service economies, women become flavour of the month,and young men who might otherwise have been sent off to die in some made up war are left hanging around feeling a bit useless.All men have is work- we have NO other function.All women HAVE to do is lay an egg.

...WTF are you talking about? There have been innumerable great advancements by women, in spite of the fact that for the majority of our existence, the human race has been a patriarchal civilisation.

What do you mean by "women aren't meant to 'have work'"? That it's not physical labour? That it's just something they do to pass the time until they can go back to being housewives?

Also, you might want to go back and attend your sex ed classes, you seem to have missed some vital nuggets of information.

Josh_Calvert

"Also, you might want to go back and attend your sex ed classes, you seem to have missed some vital nuggets of information."



I know you're just saying what you think but you sound exactly like that shrew from the donnie darko movie...'excuse me miss...you need to go back to grad school!'

Laisurg

magneticimpulse wrote: »

Maybe its this attitude thats holding you back!!! Your "blaming" other people ( dare I say your single pointing the blame at women) for reasons why YOU are not getting a job!!!

You might want to re-evaluate your CV if your not getting jobs and your technique to applying for jobs. Not going off on one against women. At the end of the day, all jobs are equal opportunity. Just because you see "women" as being less qualified for the job, doesnt mean they have not proved themselves to be more capable or maybe even more mature at doing it.

Its everybody for themselves at the moment. Im a 30 year old female finishing a Chemistry PhD. I too will have to look for a job and will be up against many equally qualified men and women. So its my job to make a great CV which will stand out!! I have already lived abroad, including France and fluent in French.

You think its bad now? Back in 2002 when I got my degree I couldnt get a job in Ireland for the life of me. I moved to England and got many jobs...Id send my CV out and 2 weeks later would have 4 job offers. I moved around and at 30, I am still working towards my career and learning new stuff!!! Why? Because its always about adding that little bit extra to the CV and making me stand out from the rest. I aint going to go around and blame other people or have a chip on my shoulder!! Im going to put that time into developing me as a person, googling the net for how to do CV's etc. Training to get managing and leadership skills.

Its not because im a woman...its because thats whats got to be done in the job search!

He never said he was blaming woman, he simply said that he feels employers favor woman more than men for some jobs, which is true, to be honest your post is about as condescending as can be.

28064212

Laisurg wrote: »

He never said he was blaming woman, he simply said that he feels employers favor woman more than men for some jobs, which is true, to be honest your post is about as condescending as can be.

Some employers may favour some women for some jobs. Some employers may favour some men for some jobs. There has been no evidence presented so far that suggests either situation is widespread, or that one is notably more prevalent than the other

Laisurg

HavingCrack wrote: »

The Curves franchise isn't illegal. There's lots of sports teams etc that are male or female only. I'm sure if there was a demand for a male only gym there would be one.

And if a male only gym was set up women would be up in arms.

Josh_Calvert

I'm not being patronising at all, and I'm not 'blaming' women.I'm 'blaming' the older folks in the background who socially engineered the situation young men find themselves in nowadays.

Despite this, young men have often been disposable in human history..it's just part of the cycle.Not a nice one to be in though.

HavingCrack

Laisurg wrote: »

And if a male only gym was set up women would be up in arms.

To be honest, I doubt it for one reason. One of the main reasons Curves was set up is because a sizeable amount of women are uncomfortable attending mixed gyms. They prefer not sharing with men.

Eric Cartman

In all fairness our society has gone too far, its a fact women arent equal and never will be in my eyes, theres jsut some jobs most of them are not physically or emotionally capable of doing, Now in the world of work theres this unfortunate PR buzz word of equality going round and some retarded MD's live in a loo la land where a) having more women gives you better PR and b) therefore the degredation in the standard of work and all the extra absentee time doesnt balance out any profits you may have gained by hiring the women.

Im not against women in the workplace and I believe if they are the most capable candidate for a job then they are entitled to it , but far too often they are not, and there is a more competent male candidate thats overlooked, because he doesnt make PR look good and he doesnt have tits

I just decided to make my own work , 21 self employed , making fairly good money skirting around the computers / media / electronics sector , so no women will be invading my way of work , Im not going to be closed minded and say one doesnt exist, but , from my experience, to date , I have not found 1 woman who can work half as well as most men in the IT/ Electronics sector

Eric Cartman

Laisurg wrote: »

And if a male only gym was set up women would be up in arms.

they had one called Cuts , set up by the same people who started curves, they closed down, whats the point in the gym without a daecent lurk at the wimminz

28064212

Eric Cartman wrote: »

In all fairness our society has gone too far, its a fact women arent equal and never will be in my eyes, theres jsut some jobs most of them are not physically or emotionally capable of doing

So you're physically and emotionally stronger than every woman in the world? Bullshit. Yes, the average man is physically stronger than the average woman. What does that have to do with anything? I don't even know where you're going with the emotional thing

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Now in the world of work theres this unfortunate PR buzz word of equality going round and some retarded MD's live in a loo la land where a) having more women gives you better PR and b) therefore the degredation in the standard of work and all the extra absentee time doesnt balance out any profits you may have gained by hiring the women.

More bullshit. Equality means hiring the best person for the job, regardless of gender. It's redressing the lack of balance where men were hired ahead of women despite the fact that the woman may have been more qualified

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Im not against women in the workplace and I believe if they are the most capable candidate for a job then they are entitled to it , but far too often they are not, and there is a more competent male candidate thats overlooked, because he doesnt make PR look good and he doesnt have tits

Any examples? Or is this you talking off the top of your head?

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I just decided to make my own work , 21 self employed , making fairly good money skirting around the computers / media / electronics sector , so no women will be invading my way of work , Im not going to be closed minded and say one doesnt exist, but , from my experience, to date , I have not found 1 woman who can work half as well as most men in the IT/ Electronics sector

More total bullshit. In my computing degree, percentage-wise, the women did better than the men.

jmn89

Eric Cartman wrote: »

In all fairness our society has gone too far, its a fact women arent equal and never will be in my eyes, theres jsut some jobs most of them are not physically or emotionally capable of doing, Now in the world of work theres this unfortunate PR buzz word of equality going round and some retarded MD's live in a loo la land where a) having more women gives you better PR and b) therefore the degredation in the standard of work and all the extra absentee time doesnt balance out any profits you may have gained by hiring the women.

Im not against women in the workplace and I believe if they are the most capable candidate for a job then they are entitled to it , but far too often they are not, and there is a more competent male candidate thats overlooked, because he doesnt make PR look good and he doesnt have tits

I just decided to make my own work , 21 self employed , making fairly good money skirting around the computers / media / electronics sector , so no women will be invading my way of work , Im not going to be closed minded and say one doesnt exist, but , from my experience, to date , I have not found 1 woman who can work half as well as most men in the IT/ Electronics sector

*beats bare chest with fists*

Eric Cartman

28064212 wrote: »

So you're physically and emotionally stronger than every woman in the world? Bullshit. Yes, the average man is physically stronger than the average woman. What does that have to do with anything? I don't even know where you're going with the emotional thing

note where I used the word most , as in not all , you are correct on the point ive marked in bold , it has a lot to do with things , physical strength is required to do some jobs, not every job is in an office, and hiring the average woman instead of the average man could be detrimental in this sector.

More bullshit. Equality means hiring the best person for the job, regardless of gender. It's redressing the lack of balance where men were hired ahead of women despite the fact that the woman may have been more qualified

ok, then we dont have equality, we had it one side of equailty now we have it the other way ,

Any examples? Or is this you talking off the top of your head?

grants, incentives, tax breaks - all aroudn the world trying to get women into the workplace by giving employers money , its just changed the form of wage inequality into a goverment approved transaction

More total bullshit. In my computing degree, percentage-wise, the women did better than the men.

a computing degree is no reflection of real world performance , seriously , a lot of women are more diligent than men and do perform better in exams like that, but In the real world where creative troubleshooting and ingenuity are your best friends in the IT sector I have yet to see a woman cope well, im not denying that they can, I just havent seen it

Pivot Eoin

donfers wrote: »

I disagree with every statement in this post, particularly the part in bold.

oh and let me add the following, if a young white man loses his job or gets treated badly in any kind of legal, political or societal situation he must take it on the chin and accept the responsibility for what has happened, he can't blame any inadequacies, incompetence or failings on racism or xenophobia or homophobia or ageism or sexism or misogyny etc etc

I don't doubt there are genuine cases when the above stuff occurs, however it must be unbelievably tough for the young white male knowing that when stuff goes wrong in his life he can't shift the responsibility and blame it on some unseen conspiratorial forces, he must accept his failures and that's why so many of us get pissed off when we see those cards playing too easily and too readily by anybody but the young white male man,when something bad happens to the other groups they can say it's to do with some kind of discrimination and it's nothing to do with their own abilities.

When **** happens to the young white male it's always always his fault, his failures, him being a useless loser and nobody gives a flying fcuk - his burden is he can't blame anything or anyone else for his failures, he must take responsibility for not succeeding, others have the luxury of saying their lack of success is not their responsibility but some dark discrimatory demons preying on them.

These demons do exist of course but they prey on all of us and they're not as prevalent as some would have you believe.

**** happens, you see, but only the young white male doesn't have the right to protest against this unicersal truth

You really seem to be an inconsideratre fool donfers. As someone riightly pointed out, the high suicide rate is terrible for the young male group and it is no coincedince. It is a very valid point in relation to this thread anyway.

28064212

Eric Cartman wrote: »

note where I used the word most , as in not all , you are correct on the point ive marked in bold , it has a lot to do with things , physical strength is required to do some jobs, not every job is in an office, and hiring the average woman instead of the average man could be detrimental in this sector.

Who was talking about hiring the average woman instead of the average man? If that was true, there'd be a lot more women labourers. But there's not, because the best people are being hired for the job, regardless of gender

Eric Cartman wrote: »

ok, then we dont have equality, we had it one side of equailty now we have it the other way ,

No we don't

Eric Cartman wrote: »

grants, incentives, tax breaks - all aroudn the world trying to get women into the workplace by giving employers money , its just changed the form of wage inequality into a goverment approved transaction

Any specific examples?

Eric Cartman wrote: »

a computing degree is no reflection of real world performance , seriously , a lot of women are more diligent than men and do perform better in exams like that, but In the real world where creative troubleshooting and ingenuity are your best friends in the IT sector I have yet to see a woman cope well, im not denying that they can, I just havent seen it

And I've seen and know many of them.

SugarHigh

28064212 wrote: »

Who was talking about hiring the average woman instead of the average man? If that was true, there'd be a lot more women labourers. But there's not, because the best people are being hired for the job, regardless of gender.

I agree this is what should happen but gender quotas are rampant in Science and they give being female a value which it shouldn't have. Your gender should be irrelevant but it clearly isn't. Just look at all the support for gender quotas in Irish politics, it's basically holding women to a different(lower) standard.

In Canda companies are told to give a preference to women and this is passed of as being equality, they even called it the equality act. Gender isn't an important factor when judging an individual and it's as silly as judging someone by race or hair colour.

PrincessLola

Sorry but I think much of this is percieved descrimination. I'm white and the notion that our race is being descriminated against in Ireland is bull****. I don't think any of you can imagine the racism that still goes on against minorities in the hiring process, from what I gather people will always hire those most like themselves. White men like to hire white men, white women like to hire white women.

donfers

PrincessLola wrote: »

Sorry but I think much of this is percieved descrimination. I'm white and the notion that our race is being descriminated against in Ireland is bull****. I don't think any of you can imagine the racism that still goes on against minorities in the hiring process, from what I gather people will always hire those most like themselves. White men like to hire white men, white women like to hire white women.

congratulations on completely missing the point.

That point being that if you applied for a job and didn't get it or if you weren't chosen for the pub quiz team or if the bus driver was rude to you........well in these cases some women would take the option of crying out

"that's a big misogynist conspiracy against me"

or

"the patriarchy is crushing me"

or

"sexism is preventing me fulfilling and empowering myself"

bla bla bla

what these hysterical accusations tend to overlook is that the woman in question maybe

a) has got shoite qualifications or not enough experience or didn't interview well

b) is a bit of an asshole

c) is a bit dumb

now let's face it, we are all for equality here, and both genders have their fair share of goodies and baddies, no one gender has a monopoly on virtue (despite the various sugar and spice and fairer sex linguistic myths which don't bother me in the slightest as these are trivial concerns) so the likelihood is that there are as many women who are assholes or dumb out there, the key point is that they don't have to accept responsibility for being dumb or assholes in certain situations as they can deflect away any of that responsibility by saying it's nothing to do with them, but it's some evil unseen woman-hating fat-cat men that are keeping them down.

White men are the only group that don't have the option of blaming their failures on something else, they must accept and take personal responsibility for any shoite that comes their way or else people tell them to "man up" or as you have done that they are talking "bull****". I see no problem with people having to take responsibility for their actions or inactions when things go wrong.
Discrimination does exist against women and ethnic minorities but I despair when someone plays the discrimination card at every perceived slight and fails to realise that sometimes they are responsible for the problematic stuff that has happened to them. Are they all bleeding super-talented perfect angels or something and whenever anything goes wrong for them it's because of some racist misogynist xenophobic overlord?

I don't dismiss discrimination, I dismiss those who see it when it isn't there and fail to take personal responsibility for their failings.

28064212

donfers wrote: »

congratulations on completely missing the point.

That point being that if you applied for a job and didn't get it or if you weren't chosen for the pub quiz team of if the bus driver was rude to you........well in these cases some women would take the option of crying out

"that's a big misogynist conspiracy against me"

or

"the patriarchy is crushing me"

or

"sexism is preventing me fulfilling and empowering myself"

bla bla bla

what these hysterical accusations tend to overlook is that the woman in question maybe

a) has got shoite qualifications or not enough experience or didn't interview well

b) is a bit of an asshole

c) is a bit dumb

now let's face it, we are all for equality here, and both genders have their fair share of goodies and baddies, no one gender has a monopoly on virtue (despite the various sugar and spice and fairer sex linguistic myths which don't bother me in the slightest as these are trivial concerns) so the likelihood is that there are as many women who are assholes or dumb out there, the key point is that they don't have to accept responsibility for being dumb or assholes in certain situations as they can deflect away any of that responsibility by saying it's nothing to do with them, but it's some evil unseen woman-hating fat-cat men that are keeping them down.

White men are the only group that don't have the option of blaming their failures on something else, they must accept and take personal responsibility for any shoite that comes their way or else people tell them to "man up" or as you have done that they are talking "bull****". I see no problem with people having to take responsibility for their actions or inactions when things go wrong.
Discrimination does exist against women and ethnic minorities but I despair when someone plays the discrimination card at every perceived slight and fails to realise that sometimes they are responsible for the problematic stuff that has happened to them. Are they all bleeding super-talented perfect angels or something and whenever anything goes wrong for them it's because of some racist misogynist xenophobic overlord?

I don't dismiss discrimination, I dismiss those who see it when it isn't there and fail to take personal responsibility for their failings.

Yes, if only we had some laws that banned discrimination against either gender...

And I'm guessing you failed to notice the entire premise of this thread, which was playing the discrimination card at a perceived slight with no back-up for that whatsoever? Both sexes are perfectly capable of railing against non-existent discrimination

PrincessLola

donfers wrote: »

congratulations on completely missing the point.

That point being that if you applied for a job and didn't get it or if you weren't chosen for the pub quiz team or if the bus driver was rude to you........well in these cases some women would take the option of crying out

"that's a big misogynist conspiracy against me"

or

"the patriarchy is crushing me"

or

"sexism is preventing me fulfilling and empowering myself"

bla bla bla

what these hysterical accusations tend to overlook is that the woman in question maybe

a) has got shoite qualifications or not enough experience or didn't interview well

b) is a bit of an asshole

c) is a bit dumb

now let's face it, we are all for equality here, and both genders have their fair share of goodies and baddies, no one gender has a monopoly on virtue (despite the various sugar and spice and fairer sex linguistic myths which don't bother me in the slightest as these are trivial concerns) so the likelihood is that there are as many women who are assholes or dumb out there, the key point is that they don't have to accept responsibility for being dumb or assholes in certain situations as they can deflect away any of that responsibility by saying it's nothing to do with them, but it's some evil unseen woman-hating fat-cat men that are keeping them down.

White men are the only group that don't have the option of blaming their failures on something else, they must accept and take personal responsibility for any shoite that comes their way or else people tell them to "man up" or as you have done that they are talking "bull****". I see no problem with people having to take responsibility for their actions or inactions when things go wrong.
Discrimination does exist against women and ethnic minorities but I despair when someone plays the discrimination card at every perceived slight and fails to realise that sometimes they are responsible for the problematic stuff that has happened to them. Are they all bleeding super-talented perfect angels or something and whenever anything goes wrong for them it's because of some racist misogynist xenophobic overlord?

I don't dismiss discrimination, I dismiss those who see it when it isn't there and fail to take personal responsibility for their failings.

You know you sound exactly like ethnic minorities and women you're complaining about. There is no conspiracy against white men, you just think there is because you are one. If you were a black woman you would be saying the same thing about black women. Women do have to accept responsibility and no woman I know has ever blamed not getting a job on her gender. You're the only one playing the victim here.

donfers

PrincessLola wrote: »

You know you sound exactly like ethnic minorities and women you're complaining about. There is no conspiracy against white men, you just think there is because you are one. If you were a black woman you would be saying the same thing about black women. Women do have to accept responsibility and no woman I know has ever blamed not getting a job on her gender. You're the only one playing the victim here.

Read my post again

I don't think there is a conspiracy against white men

nor am I playing the victim

I am trying to suggest we all take responsibility if things don't go our way unless there really is discrimination at play