Being a young male in Ireland

myflipflops · 10-12-2010 8:56am

donfers wrote: »

It's not so much to do with fearing ridicule by their peers as some men WILL NOT open up to anybody thus invalidating your throwaway theory......it's to do with the burden young white men are expected to carry and how they are expected to do it stoically and without complaint unlike others

It is a burden we re-inforce ourselves though. That is the first issue that needs to be tackled.

twinQuins · 10-12-2010 2:54pm

Donfers, can I just ask why you feel the need to - constantly - qualify your statements as young white men, specifically? Is there something you're trying to say?

I've enjoyed reading this thread but your posts have stood out as you're the only user to qualify that you're talking about "white" men.

Maguined · 10-12-2010 3:07pm

I think the point he is trying to make is that males of other ethnicities do not get openly discriminated against as governments of most nations try to protect the ethnic minorities, so if something is discriminatory towards an ethnic minority then most people with call it racism and view it negatively.

As white males have no real support socially like ethnic minorities do or womens groups do it is pretty much socially acceptable to discriminate against this group.

twinQuins · 10-12-2010 3:52pm

But the point isn't that "being a young white male in Ireland" is tough, as men of other ethnicities share the same problems. Support networks for ethnicities are just that - for their ethnicities, not for their specific gender and will deal with issues relevant to their ethnicity.
White males have, traditionally, been the last people to face any kind of active discrimination, ergo the lack of any need for a support network for the ethnicity.

The discussion is not one of race and I'd hate to see it being led that way as they tend to devolve rather quickly, in my experience.

donfers · 10-12-2010 9:03pm

Morkarleth wrote: »

But the point isn't that "being a young white male in Ireland" is tough, as men of other ethnicities share the same problems. Support networks for ethnicities are just that - for their ethnicities, not for their specific gender and will deal with issues relevant to their ethnicity.
White males have, traditionally, been the last people to face any kind of active discrimination, ergo the lack of any need for a support network for the ethnicity.

The discussion is not one of race and I'd hate to see it being led that way as they tend to devolve rather quickly, in my experience.

you're the one that turned it into a discussion about racism I'm afraid

the point I was making was that white males do not have the "it's not me, it's some kind of discrimination" default setting when things go wrong that others can rely on to deflect any kind of personal responsibility for the bad stuff that happens in their lives...of course discrimination occurs and it's wrong when it does happen but get this sometimes people say it happened when it didn't, maybe it was you, maybe you were an asshole or **** at a particular task/duty, oh and I'm not sure what you mean when you say white males were the "last" to face any kind of "active" discrimation. Is it only active when the bleeding heart cronies like yourself go off on one about it? If so I'd agree that discrimination against white males is inactive as it's not really discussed, if I highlight it I won't be the cool anti-establishment revolutionary that people like you so aspire to be, on the contrary people will insinuate I'm a racist, And as for the "last" comment, I wasn't aware that there was a chronological order for discriminatory events, perhaps for the stuff that legislation deals with yes but I do hope that you are aware that discrimination exists beyond stuff like getting the vote and equal pay legislation.

you are exactly the type of person that laps up the media driven pc hysteria probably in order to impress the girl next door and I really have no time for these cliche-devouring one-eyed types.

I think discrimination should be stamped out wherever it occurs not just where it's fashionable or where it'll get me brownie points at the dinner table of liberal arts students or where I am told by acceptable sources it occurs

I really get tired of talking to people like you, honestly, it's amazing how similar every liberal fascist you will ever meet is...they all have good intentions but don't realise how short-sighted and hypocritically narrow-mninded they really are

I got the beating of my life trying to defend a black mate from a gang of thugs last new years and while that doesn't necessarily prove I'm not a racist I don't appreciate the insinuation and I won't credit or dignify it with any more words.

twinQuins · 10-12-2010 11:14pm

If you can't hold a discussion without resorting to insults then I don't believe we have anything further to say to one another. I will, however, leave you with this: your bile ridden post says more about you than I ever could.

tbh · 10-12-2010 11:32pm

donfers wrote: »

you're the one that turned it into a discussion about racism I'm afraid

you are exactly the type of person that laps up the media driven pc hysteria probably in order to impress the girl next door and I really have no time for these cliche-devouring one-eyed types.

I really get tired of talking to people like you, honestly, it's amazing how similar every liberal fascist you will ever meet is...they all have good intentions but don't realise how short-sighted and hypocritically narrow-mninded they really are

I got the beating of my life trying to defend a black mate from a gang of thugs last new years and while that doesn't necessarily prove I'm not a racist I don't appreciate the insinuation and I won't credit or dignify it with any more words.

This kind of personalization is unacceptable in this forum. I get that you're passionate about this subject, which is great, but if you don't reign it in, you won't be allowed contribute anymore, which would be a shame. Ok?

Morkarleth wrote: »

If you can't hold a discussion without resorting to insults then I don't believe we have anything further to say to one another. I will, however, leave you with this: your bile ridden post says more about you than I ever could.

Please leave the moderation of the forum to the mods. Getting the last word is our privilege

Remember: respect is both your right and your obligation on this forum. You can disagree with someone and still be polite. And if you can't, you're in the wrong place. Trust me

scientific1982 · 10-12-2010 11:55pm

donfers wrote: »

I understand the resentment among young males in Ireland, they're by far the most fcuked-over least respected most ridiculed least defended group in Ireland, all the "causes" you hear about in the media on a daily basis are how badly immigrants or pensioners or women or kids are treated yet the young male is assumed to be ok and must stoically endure all that befalls him, must not complain or show emotion or else he is a "whinger/complainer" or told to man up.

Hence the huge suicide rates in this group compared to all others, they receive absolutely no support and are victimised constantly by the other groups just for being white males when they have absolutely no control over the injustices that happen to the other groups (superclass of business leaders, ceo's, advisory groups, civil servants are the ones to blame not some random young guy).

Basically they must carry the burden for themselves and others and not once protest about their sorry fate. Not a nice situation to be in but remember lads, mustn't complain, man up, don't be a whinger and all that

That is absolute bull****. If you were a young Irish male in N.Ireland 20 years ago you might have a point. I have friends from other races and you should hear the abuse they have to put up with on a daily basis.

donfers · 11-12-2010 12:15am

tbh wrote: »

This kind of personalization is unacceptable in this forum. I get that you're passionate about this subject, which is great, but if you don't reign it in, you won't be allowed contribute anymore, which would be a shame. Ok?

Please leave the moderation of the forum to the mods. Getting the last word is our privilege

Remember: respect is both your right and your obligation on this forum. You can disagree with someone and still be polite. And if you can't, you're in the wrong place. Trust me

I made assumptions about the poster without any evidence, it was pure speculation on my part so that's fair enough

donfers · 11-12-2010 12:30am

scientific1982 wrote: »

That is absolute bull****. If you were a young Irish male in N.Ireland 20 years ago you might have a point. I have friends from other races and you should hear the abuse they have to put up with on a daily basis.

I think you're missing the point but I can't be bothered explaining again

JayEnnis · 11-12-2010 1:08am

Tell me how its fair that an 18 year old girl got a job in a photo lab ahead of me? I'm a published photographer, I develop all my film at home and I know more about cameras than anyone else I can think of. After she got the job I went in to buy some film and asked if they had any Black and white and she pulled out a roll of colour film and said is this any use to you?

It's absolutely ridiculous.

11-12-2010 1:15am

JayEnnis wrote: »

Tell me how its fair that an 18 year old girl got a job in a photo lab ahead of me? I'm a published photographer, I develop all my film at home and I know more about cameras than anyone else I can think of. After she got the job I went in to buy some film and asked if they had any Black and white and she pulled out a roll of colour film and said is this any use to you?

It's absolutely ridiculous.

You applied for this job then? And you reckon you would have spent more time in the job than her? This was your long-term plan, be available for whatever work they offered?

Or were you going to keep looking and jump at the first 'real' job that you got offered?

JayEnnis · 11-12-2010 1:17am

I'm 18 as well and in the exact same circumstances as the girl. It's part time work to fund going through college and as it interests me then yes, I would have stuck with it for a good 3-4 years.

11-12-2010 1:36am

JayEnnis wrote: »

I'm 18 as well and in the exact same circumstances as the girl. It's part time work to fund going through college and as it interests me then yes, I would have stuck with it for a good 3-4 years.

Were your wage demands the same as hers? Did you make it clear that you planned to be there for 3-4 years?

Did you put your experience on the CV? Were they looking for someone unqualified? I assume they were or they wouldn't have hired her. So the employer has two CVs in front of them. The job is clearly below one of them, and at about the right level for the other, which would you hire?

I'm not saying you definitely weren't discriminated against, but there are many reasons for her to be legitimately hired ahead of you. Out of curiosity, what do you think the employer's motive would be? Discrimination normally involves predjudice, a belief that certain groups are 'inferior', or a desire to keep those groups "in their place".

Kimia · 11-12-2010 11:49am

donfers wrote: »

you seem to think you know a lot about how a man thinks - may I ask you, are you a man?

I didn't realise you had to be a man to have an opinion on gender discrimination. Maybe if you truly believe that the 'young white male' is being genuinely discriminated against at the moment, it would be helpful to have some opinions from women as they would have more than likely experienced some form of discrimination in the past. It doesn't have to be a us versus them you know.

It's not so much to do with fearing ridicule by their peers as some men WILL NOT open up to anybody thus invalidating your throwaway theory......it's to do with the burden young white men are expected to carry and how they are expected to do it stoically and without complaint unlike others

It's everything to do with fearing ridicule from your peers and several men have replied to this post to support that fact. The very reason men will not open up to anybody is because of this (unrealistic and unfair) expectation. Although I do see that you're trying to explain - that its society's (made up of both women and men) fault that there is this this expectation and men shouldn't be 'blamed' for it.

Support networks are not the issue at all-it's about changing expectations within a society as it is for many of the issues feminists campaign on

If you don't think support networks will work - what do you think would help change these expectations?

However, when feminists do it, it's great, empowering, giving it to the man, crushing the patriarchy, they get lots of funding and media coverage and even have created a nice little niche in the graduate world to cover their issues

Yes, support networks etc have worked for women. Which is why there will always be in these kind of debates, a suggestion for men to follow suit and set up their own networks to empower men. Why don't you believe that that would help? I think it's a fantastic idea.

When men highlight an issue, they are usually ridiculed, called whingers or complainers, labelled misogynists or told they are soft (in my experience, again contrary to your theory, more women than men find fault with men revealing problems, "be a man", "man up" etc etc)

Any women genuinely interested in equality would never ever ridicule a man for trying to highlight an issue that they believe strongly in, such as the high rate of suicide in young men. I disagree that more women find fault with men revealing problems - I've never heard my female peers ridicule or call men soft for crying. In fact quite the opposite, it's actually thought of as very modern for a man to be in touch with his feelings and this (to my agegroup anyway) is an attractive quality.

So that's why I think your post lacks credibility

I get the feeling from your several posts on this subject not only here but in tLL that you have been subject to negative experiences by being a young white male, but you never follow through on any positive suggestions for change or development for men.

This is why you might have been called a whinger or complainer in the past. It's all well and good to get angry and feel frustrated with discrimination that has happened to you in the past. I think the point people make to you (which you ignore mostly) is that if you feel that strongly about it (which it's clear you do and fair play to that) - you should do something about it. It's not up to anyone else to make a change for you - if you want something done you can't just expect to sit back and let it come to you easily without a fight. That's not the way it works. Check the history books to get examples of how it's been done in the past. It is never easy.

Personally I feel very strongly about equality for men and women. If you are being discriminated against for being a young white male well then I think that's just as disgraceful as an elderly black female being discriminated against. However the reason that there are 'feminists' (and by the way that word actually means a person who believes in equality for all, not just women - my bf is a feminist

) is because they represent people like yourself who see inequalities in society but are vocal to the masses about it - by way of support groups (which because of their high number of members get media attention).

So imo support groups are a good idea, and if you are a young man who feels that society has evolved in a way you're not happy about, and you feel things need to change - then get together with like minded men and stand up for yourselves! Get a group together and send press releases into the media. Conduct surveys to research how men across Ireland feel about the issue. Get volunteers to talk to primary and secondary school boys about opening up and talking about your feelings. Do something!!

Mr Marri · 11-12-2010 6:51pm

Asking young men to start there own support group is a bit much to be honest as most young men simply haven't developed the skill set to do so at that age.
Relisticly if this is ever going to happen it will have to be set up and run by older men/women so the question is, is soceity willing to step in and help young men? I would like to thinks so but I won't be holding my breath waiting for it to happen.

Otis Driftwood · 11-12-2010 7:09pm

Mr Marri wrote: »

Asking young men to start there own support group is a bit much to be honest as most young men simply haven't developed the skill set to do so at that age.
Relisticly if this is ever going to happen it will have to be set up and run by older men/women so the question is, is soceity willing to step in and help young men? I would like to thinks so but I won't be holding my breath waiting for it to happen.

Ya know I think society would be ready.Id be fairly sure that everyone in this country has been touched by suicide.I myself know of 6 or 7 men aged between 18 and 35 that have committed suicide in the general area where I live over the last year or so.That is a frightening number of young men and it is only going to get worse.There are probably thousands of people willing to volunteer as counsellers or sounding boards.I know the Samaritans is there but I view it as being a little stagnant*.

I think the main problem is not lack of groups,more the unwillingness of men to make use of them and this goes back to the cliche of men being the strong silent type.For alot of us that is a very hard badge to remove so Id be of the opinion that it should be introduced in the secondary school system from 2nd or 3rd year up.Depression and awareness of its symptoms should be discussed openly and frankly with students,male and female so that the stigma that is still attached to it is removed as much as is possible.Our teen years are probably our most formative years so what is ingrained at this time will probably stick with us for life.

I know this has gone waaaay off topic from the OP but it is something that I feel should be discussed.

*I wasnt knocking the Samaritans,they do exceptional work and Im in no doubt they have helped probably thousands of people back from the brink.I just think that they will always be associated with suicide prevention and to tell a young man to call them Id be fairly sure you would get an answer akin to "sure Im not going to kill myself".The problem is that although they may not be suicidal at the time,left to fester,alot of the time this is where it ends up.

scientific1982 · 11-12-2010 9:22pm

donfers wrote: »

I think you're missing the point but I can't be bothered explaining again

victimised constantly by the other groups just for being white males

Exactly what groups are young white males being victimised by? Im a, relatively, young white male. Ive never felt victimised because of my race or my gender and nor have any of my friends.

donfers · 11-12-2010 9:34pm

Kimia wrote: »

I didn't realise you had to be a man to have an opinion on gender discrimination. Maybe if you truly believe that the 'young white male' is being genuinely discriminated against at the moment, it would be helpful to have some opinions from women as they would have more than likely experienced some form of discrimination in the past. It doesn't have to be a us versus them you know.

It's everything to do with fearing ridicule from your peers and several men have replied to this post to support that fact. The very reason men will not open up to anybody is because of this (unrealistic and unfair) expectation. Although I do see that you're trying to explain - that its society's (made up of both women and men) fault that there is this this expectation and men shouldn't be 'blamed' for it.

If you don't think support networks will work - what do you think would help change these expectations?

Yes, support networks etc have worked for women. Which is why there will always be in these kind of debates, a suggestion for men to follow suit and set up their own networks to empower men. Why don't you believe that that would help? I think it's a fantastic idea.

Any women genuinely interested in equality would never ever ridicule a man for trying to highlight an issue that they believe strongly in, such as the high rate of suicide in young men. I disagree that more women find fault with men revealing problems - I've never heard my female peers ridicule or call men soft for crying. In fact quite the opposite, it's actually thought of as very modern for a man to be in touch with his feelings and this (to my agegroup anyway) is an attractive quality.

I get the feeling from your several posts on this subject not only here but in tLL that you have been subject to negative experiences by being a young white male, but you never follow through on any positive suggestions for change or development for men.

This is why you might have been called a whinger or complainer in the past. It's all well and good to get angry and feel frustrated with discrimination that has happened to you in the past. I think the point people make to you (which you ignore mostly) is that if you feel that strongly about it (which it's clear you do and fair play to that) - you should do something about it. It's not up to anyone else to make a change for you - if you want something done you can't just expect to sit back and let it come to you easily without a fight. That's not the way it works. Check the history books to get examples of how it's been done in the past. It is never easy.

Personally I feel very strongly about equality for men and women. If you are being discriminated against for being a young white male well then I think that's just as disgraceful as an elderly black female being discriminated against. However the reason that there are 'feminists' (and by the way that word actually means a person who believes in equality for all, not just women - my bf is a feminist ) is because they represent people like yourself who see inequalities in society but are vocal to the masses about it - by way of support groups (which because of their high number of members get media attention).

So imo support groups are a good idea, and if you are a young man who feels that society has evolved in a way you're not happy about, and you feel things need to change - then get together with like minded men and stand up for yourselves! Get a group together and send press releases into the media. Conduct surveys to research how men across Ireland feel about the issue. Get volunteers to talk to primary and secondary school boys about opening up and talking about your feelings. Do something!!

a reasonable and fair-minded post, i agree with some of it

I am lucky enough not to have been subject to many negative experiences but I have witnessed many and will defend those who it happens to whenever I do witness it even if they do happen to be white males

the reason why it's not about supports groups for men is because I am against the whole "rights for my particular ethnic group" ideology....it may sound naive and idealistic but I will only ever wear the badge of human rights, anything else in my view is ultimately counter-productive

anybody who segregates their own paricular ethnic group is ultimately propogating and entrenching the divisions

These groups are not really about equality at all, they are about progressing their own group (in many cases that progression is absolutely necessary and just).....but the reality is they are all about self-interest and if we are to take the example of the feminist movement for example, you'll hear all aboout crisp ads (but nothing about the many ads with the buffoon man figure) you'll hear all about the cost of childcare but nothing about the cost of car insurance for men, you'll hear all about the unreported victims of rape but nothing about the huge gender disparity in male suicide and on and on........any group that aspires to espouse any kind of equal rights or human rights philosophy yet only highlights and campaigns for the issues that affect that particular group 99% of the time (and maybe 1% token mentions of the injustices against those outside of the group) lacks credibility in my eyes, is open to accusations of self-interest and hypocrasy and only entrenches the divisions already out there

we need to have one universal human rights group that fights for us all whenever injustice occurs, not various smaller groups squabbling for their own benefits and not concerned with the plight of others because their cause isn't fashionable or because they weren't persecuted 100 years ago or because their gender or skin colour or nationality or religion happens to be different from your own, we are all human so fight for all humans, not just the one that is most similar to you, all very utopian I know but there it is

and if it appears I am contradicting myself by always banging on about men's issues or referring to white men then it's not because I believe they are the most discriminated against it's because I feel they are the least represented, when we're all fighting for each other and not just trying to highlight how our own ethnic group are more worthy victims then I'll gladly shut up - the kicker is that suffering affects us all equally, no one group has a monopoly on it and that is why campaigning against the causes of it should unite us all

icescreamqueen · 11-12-2010 9:45pm

Raze_them_all wrote: »

Lately I've been thinking like many young males of leaving the country.

I'm 22, my passed job experience has been as a labourer, apprentice plumber and a doorman. As you can imagine my job prospects aren't that great, so I went off and got qualified as a gym instructer and a personal trainer(3700e funded by myself) can't get a job for the life of me.

I guess what I'm getting at is does anyone else think that the worst thing you can be is a young male that had previous experience in construction? I mean I'm more qualified than most people who stand around "working in gyms" hell I even helped to set up a mixed martial arts gym!

Am I the only young male who feels like that my age and sex are holding me back from getting work and my only hope is emmigration?

I've seen pictures of you in TLL, you should try modeling. You definitely have the looks for it.

Iorras55 · 11-12-2010 9:48pm

I have so much sympathy with the OP here. Young white Irish men are suffering badly in Ireland today. Young immigrants have all sorts of support groups set up to speak up for them in relation to getting work and assisting them in many ways. Young Irish have nothing similar.

The only suggestion I can make to this fellow is that rather than send out CV after CV and put up with hearing nothing, get yourself dressed well and go out to businesses in person with copies of your CV. Go into McDonalds, go into pubs and restaurants, pizza outlets, petrol filling stations - anywhere there might be the possibility of a job. It was always said that if you have a job it is easier to find another job and employers are more willing to take on somebody who is currently employed than somebody who isn't.

If you can manage to get anything, you will feel a lot better about yourself and have something to go to at a certain time etc.... also someone to give you a reference.

Unfortunately many disreputable people will happily charge exhorbitant fees to train you to be something but when their training comes to an end, it can be often found that the training is next to useless.

If you havn't been to college before you may be entitled to a grant to go - you won't be earning big money but student jobs then become available and the qualification you will receive after four years will carry more validity than private and very expensive courses. I think the most important thing is to feel needed and to call this young man a wimp and other such insults is not acceptable in the current economic climate. He has asked for help and he deserves a break. If none of the above are possible, his skills would be much more appreciated in the UK or further afield and that's the sad truth in the mess of the Ireland of today.

JayEnnis · 12-12-2010 3:48pm

28064212 wrote: »

Were your wage demands the same as hers? Did you make it clear that you planned to be there for 3-4 years?

Did you put your experience on the CV? Were they looking for someone unqualified? I assume they were or they wouldn't have hired her. So the employer has two CVs in front of them. The job is clearly below one of them, and at about the right level for the other, which would you hire?

I'm not saying you definitely weren't discriminated against, but there are many reasons for her to be legitimately hired ahead of you. Out of curiosity, what do you think the employer's motive would be? Discrimination normally involves predjudice, a belief that certain groups are 'inferior', or a desire to keep those groups "in their place".

Technically she's just as qualified as me, It just happens to be a hobby/something I make a little money out of on the side. I'd say I'm the one at just about the right level as I can actually do the job without extensive training and she's the one below it. And the reason she got the Job? It's in a pharmacy which also has a spa above it. There's 3 other guys that work there (Manager of the photolab, one of the pharmacists and the stock manager) while the rest of the staff are all young attractive women. So yeah I believe because I'm a young male I was discriminated against.

I definitely agree with the OP, Discrimination against males is rife in society now.

Skuxx · 12-12-2010 7:56pm

Raze_them_all wrote: »

Am I the only young male who feels like that my age and sex are holding me back from getting work and my only hope is emmigration?

Yeah I have to agree with you dude! I'm a 20 y/o male and although I'm doing an aprenticeship so I'm ok I can see it in my friends that females get jobs way easier! One of my male friends has no proper qualifications but has experience (did a bit of labouring, security work, in the army reserves) and can't get a job but one of my female friends has no qualifications or experience what so ever, had a job and quit it and had another job within 10 days! I think if a lad and a girl both apply for the same job in a shop be it dunnes or a clothes shop etc. then atleast 80% of the time the girl will get it! Its certainly not 50/50 chances!

salonfire · 12-12-2010 10:50pm

JayEnnis wrote: »

Technically she's just as qualified as me, It just happens to be a hobby/something I make a little money out of on the side. I'd say I'm the one at just about the right level as I can actually do the job without extensive training and she's the one below it. And the reason she got the Job? It's in a pharmacy which also has a spa above it. There's 3 other guys that work there (Manager of the photolab, one of the pharmacists and the stock manager) while the rest of the staff are all young attractive women. So yeah I believe because I'm a young male I was discriminated against.

I definitely agree with the OP, Discrimination against males is rife in society now.

I'd say there is a good chance you were discriminated against...it can't be a coincidence that in many clothes shops, bars and pharmacies many of the staff are young attractive women.

Fox McCloud · 12-12-2010 11:43pm

If they have the exact same experience? I really doubt it, it may seem like discrimation but the fact is women were willing to work minimum wage jobs before the recession and now they have all the experience where the work is...

I've worked alot of these type of jobs pre and post recession, and all the guys I've come across working in restaurants etc. have been in that type of work for years. I know it seems like really easy work that you pick up in a day.. but honestly its not and employers look for people who will stay in a job for a while cause training takes up so much resources so if your any way over qualified or clearly able to earn more than min wage if a position somewhere else comes up there going to hire someone with less experience who will stay.

If your female friend had a job... that is experience?

JayEnnis · 13-12-2010 10:14pm

Fox McCloud wrote: »

If they have the exact same experience? I really doubt it, it may seem like discrimation but the fact is women were willing to work minimum wage jobs before the recession and now they have all the experience where the work is...

I've worked alot of these type of jobs pre and post recession, and all the guys I've come across working in restaurants etc. have been in that type of work for years. I know it seems like really easy work that you pick up in a day.. but honestly its not and employers look for people who will stay in a job for a while cause training takes up so much resources so if your any way over qualified or clearly able to earn more than min wage if a position somewhere else comes up there going to hire someone with less experience who will stay.

If your female friend had a job... that is experience?

Yes, you say Women have all the experience.. That's very general isn't it? She's never worked a day in her life by the way. And what you say about training is rubbish, they would have to pay to train her but as I process all my own film anyway (Colour print/slide and B&W) I need no training whatsoever. So where is the justification in that?

Antomus Prime · 18-12-2010 2:22am

28064212 wrote: »

But again, it's his experience that will work against him there. Ever hear the phrase "over-qualified"? A gym isn't going to take on a qualified personal trainer if they only need someone unskilled, the qualified person will have higher wage demands and always be on the look-out for something better.

I only got as far as this post and had to jump ahead to comment on it..... I'm a regular gym goer and if i found out that even one of the staff in there was, as you said, unskilled i would cancel my membership, demand a refund of what i have paid upfront and tell everyone I know that there are unskilled people working in the gym. Quite a lot of the machines and even free weights in a gym can be very dangerous and even lethal if not used correctly and under correct supervision. So would you want to be in that kind of environment where the managers hired the unskilled worker cause it was cheaper to pay them???

I highly doubt it.............

Chet Zar · 18-12-2010 6:32am

You don't get a job as a gym instructor without being qualified.

OP, you've spent a lot of money on that course. How did the course go for you? Have you thought about training friends, relatives etc? Or other people, advertising your services? You won't be charging top dollar at first obviously, but if you have a passion for it then you should be out there looking to make it happen.

18-12-2010 1:32pm

anthonyk.is wrote: »

I only got as far as this post and had to jump ahead to comment on it..... I'm a regular gym goer and if i found out that even one of the staff in there was, as you said, unskilled i would cancel my membership, demand a refund of what i have paid upfront and tell everyone I know that there are unskilled people working in the gym. Quite a lot of the machines and even free weights in a gym can be very dangerous and even lethal if not used correctly and under correct supervision. So would you want to be in that kind of environment where the managers hired the unskilled worker cause it was cheaper to pay them???

I highly doubt it.............

You think everyone who works in your gym is a qualified personal trainer? Unskilled means they don't have any qualifications, not that they're headless chickens that have never received any instruction and only have a vague notion of where they are.

magneticimpulse · 21-12-2010 12:42am

Raze_them_all wrote: »

When I see young women with no job experience getting employed in jobs that I've applied for, yes I do believe it is holding me back.

Maybe its this attitude thats holding you back!!! Your "blaming" other people ( dare I say your single pointing the blame at women) for reasons why YOU are not getting a job!!!

You might want to re-evaluate your CV if your not getting jobs and your technique to applying for jobs. Not going off on one against women. At the end of the day, all jobs are equal opportunity. Just because you see "women" as being less qualified for the job, doesnt mean they have not proved themselves to be more capable or maybe even more mature at doing it.

Its everybody for themselves at the moment. Im a 30 year old female finishing a Chemistry PhD. I too will have to look for a job and will be up against many equally qualified men and women. So its my job to make a great CV which will stand out!! I have already lived abroad, including France and fluent in French.

You think its bad now? Back in 2002 when I got my degree I couldnt get a job in Ireland for the life of me. I moved to England and got many jobs...Id send my CV out and 2 weeks later would have 4 job offers. I moved around and at 30, I am still working towards my career and learning new stuff!!! Why? Because its always about adding that little bit extra to the CV and making me stand out from the rest. I aint going to go around and blame other people or have a chip on my shoulder!! Im going to put that time into developing me as a person, googling the net for how to do CV's etc. Training to get managing and leadership skills.

Its not because im a woman...its because thats whats got to be done in the job search!

Being a young male in Ireland

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