1st Round Draft -Drafting Quarter Backs

eagle eye

Tom_Brady wrote: »

Draft position has nothing to do with pro ready

Pro-ready means the ability to step into a pro-style offence as soon as possible. The NFL is becoming increasingly more pass-first orientated. Cam Newton is so far ahead of Michael Vick in his ability to step into a pro-style offence than Vick was at that stage. Seriously, nowhere else would this even be discussed.

As for Syferus mentioning Vick's added experience. Vick only has 1 more year experience in college than Newton. Over those two years, Vick had 177 completions. In his one single year, Cam Newton has 165. Vick's completion percentages were 59 and 54 respectively. Cam Newton's is 67. Vick threw for 20 touchdowns in two years. Newton has thrown for 28 this year alone. Newton also has a greater yards per attempt than Vick.

Ok, so you'll point to Vick's mobility. A competent scrambling QB will never be more pro-ready than an equally competent pocket passer. But still, here is some more stats for you. Vick rushed for 16 TD's in 2 years at VT. Cam Newton has rushed for 20 in one year at Auburn. Vick rushed for 1200 yards in 2 years at VT. Newton has rushed for 1400 in one year at Auburn. Newton also has a greater yards per attempt on rushing.

Add all this to the fact that Newton has gone undefeated, proven himself to be exceptional in clutch situations and has taken his team to the National Championship Game where they are heavy favourites, and finished the season as the number 1 ranked team in the country (Vick's VT only managed 6 and 2 in his two seasons). And all this in a much tougher conference and much tougher opposition.

Vick more pro-ready? Don't make me laugh.

There is a lot of untrue stuff here and stuff that is unimportant too.

Its not about your team winning Championships, that doesn't mean you will be a star in the NFL. Thats not important at all.
Just have a look at the starting QBs in the league right now and tell me how many won championships in college? I can tell you its not many.

Vick was much more prepared for the pros than Cam Newton currently is.

Have a look at the youtubes below and explain to me why you think Newton is better than Vick in the pocket. You might also notice that Newton is never under center. Now we don't know if Cam Newton is a great leader or just an incredible athlete on a great team right now. I've yet to see the guy throw a bullet pass which is something you have to be able to do in the NFL, Vick did that in college.

I'm not dishing Cam Newton here at all. He has the height and mobility and good arm strength but he still has questions to answer. How well does he read the defense, can he play under center, he has to improve his footwork in the pocket. Don't forget that he is playing behind a very powerful offensive line in college football and they don't go after him much because they are afraid of his running ability. That won't happen in the pros.

All I'm saying is that Vick was ready to go in the pros, Newton is not right now. If he goes in the draft this year he will not be starting in 2011. He will need time, if he can stay in college and show he can play under center next year then there is a chance that he gets picked very early but he has to show these things or he is going to be a late first rounder at best.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F65K0ETLQZk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQTD-oabPeI

Peyton Manning

eagle eye wrote: »

There is a lot of untrue stuff here and stuff that is unimportant too.

What's untrue about that post? I could easily say the same about yours. In fact, I will.

Its not about your team winning Championships, that doesn't mean you will be a star in the NFL. Thats not important at all.
Just have a look at the starting QBs in the league right now and tell me how many won championships in college? I can tell you its not many.

It's still an important trait though, and when you look at how Auburn have got to the NCG, it's all on the back of Cam Newton and clutch performances when the chips were down. If you're telling me coaches aren't impressed by that, I'm calling you a liar.

Vick was much more prepared for the pros than Cam Newton currently is. Have a look at the youtubes below and explain to me why you think Newton is better than Vick in the pocket. You might also notice that Newton is never under center. Now we don't know if Cam Newton is a great leader or just an incredible athlete on a great team right now. I've yet to see the guy throw a bullet pass which is something you have to be able to do in the NFL, Vick did that in college.

I don't need to look at youtube highlight videos, I've seen plenty of Cam Newton and Auburn this year, plenty more than you I'm sure. You talk about Vick having the bullet arm over Newton, well let me tell you, Cam Newton has the strongest arm of this year's draft class without question. Go watch his touchdown pass to the tight end Lutzenkirchen to tie the game against Georgia. Newton has a rocket arm, elite throwing power and he displayed it as recently as last Saturday ffs. We don't know if Newton is a leader or just a good athlete? He's both. He's completely taken charge of an offence in his first year. Scouts have been creaming themselves over how quickly he's taken to it. He's single handedly taken a team with a poor defence to the National Championship in clutch situations, largely off the back of plays he has made. All of this with the nation on his back and watching his every move. There's not a coach in the NFL who won't be impressed by that. Natural talent only gets you so far - look at JaMarcus Russell. It's your character and dedication that takes you that extra mile, and everything you see, read and here says Newton has that in abundance.

I'm not dishing Cam Newton here at all. He has the height and mobility and good arm strength but he still has questions to answer. How well does he read the defense, can he play under center, he has to improve his footwork in the pocket. Don't forget that he is playing behind a very powerful offensive line in college football and they don't go after him much because they are afraid of his running ability. That won't happen in the pros.

The only thing that concerns me about Newton is a) his footwork, and b) his staring down receivers and reluctance to check down. That's something he will work on and he will improve on in the pros, because let's face it, there's no point in him checking down in college when he can just take the ball himself and run. He'll learn to read pro defences, there's always a learning curve. Not being an expert at reading defences hasn't stopped the likes of Ben Roethlisberger succeeding, and Newton and Big Ben share a lot of likenesses in how they play.

All I'm saying is that Vick was ready to go in the pros, Newton is not right now. If he goes in the draft this year he will not be starting in 2011. He will need time, if he can stay in college and show he can play under center next year then there is a chance that he gets picked very early but he has to show these things or he is going to be a late first rounder at best.

I'm not saying he'll go first or anything, but I couldn't disagree more with the opinion that Vick was more pro-ready. Vick's first overall pick shouldn't really factor in here. The only other quarterback of note drafted that year was Drew Brees in the second round. Newton is up against two of the most pro-ready QBs in years in Luck and Locker. Vick had plenty to work on too, hence his only starting 2 games in his rookie season. Imo, he had far more red flags in far more important categories than Newton has, and it's really only something he's addressed upon his comeback. His accuracy was poor, he also had questions on whether he could read a defence, he was rarely put into situations where he had to pass etc.

It would not surprise me one bit if Newton went top 10 or top 15 depending on draft order, and depending on who drafts him, I can certainly see him starting more games than Vick did in his rookie year. No, he's not 100% ready but he's certainly further along than Vick was at the same stage. Imo, Cam Newton is a decent wonderlic and a few good interviews away from being a sensation in the NFL.

Chucky the tree

Bullet arm doesn't not mean just arm strength. Getting away from jsut the Vick comparisons but Newton translates as being a very poor prospect I think. I'd be very surprised if he goes top 15 or even 1st round.

Peyton Manning

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Bullet arm doesn't not mean just arm strength.

I'm aware of what a bullet throw/pass (not a bullet arm as you call it) is. Do you not think that arm strength is essential in order for a player to be capable of a bullet throw? Have you even seen an Auburn game this year? Cam Newton can execute a bullet pass as well as anyone in college football at the moment. It's not even up for discussion. Your little one liners are completely irrelevant in this thread so far.

Peyton Manning

Chucky the tree wrote: »

I'd be very surprised if he goes top 15 or even 1st round.

I will bet you any sum of money you want that Newton will go in the first round if he declares. You name it, I'll put up the money.

Chucky the tree

Tom_Brady wrote: »

I will bet you any sum of money you want that Newton will go in the first round if he declares. You name it, I'll put up the money.

What odds will you give me?

Eire-Dearg

Anyone who has seen even a quarter of Auburn's games this season, and I've watched them the last two weeks since they were on TV, and you won't not have seen a bullet throw from Newton

Peyton Manning

Chucky the tree wrote: »

What odds will you give me?

Im not a bookie, I don't give odds. You said you'd be surprised if he goes in the first. I'd be equally surprised if he doesn't go in the first. That sounds like evens to me.

€100 says Cam Newton - if he declares - goes in the first round.

Eire-Dearg

Don't know if this deserves a new thread as it's a little off topic, but what other offensive players will we be seeing early in the draft? (WR and RBs)

Peyton Manning

Eire-Dearg wrote: »

Don't know if this deserves a new thread as it's a little off topic, but what other offensive players will we be seeing early in the draft? (WR and RBs)

AJ Green (WR from Georgia) is the most talented wide receiver to come out of college since Calvin Johnson and is nailed on to go top 5, or top 3 depending on draft order. Pound for pound, he's the most talented player in the draft this year imo and is a once in a generation type wide receiver. We're just spoiled that Megatron and Green have come along so close to each other.

Eire-Dearg

I've seen Green a few times, he's a monster.

Julio Jones is probably the other receiver I was most impressed with (I've seen Alabama a lot), he should go pretty high up too unless there's other WRs I haven't seen.

Mark Ingram?

Peyton Manning

Eire-Dearg wrote: »

I've seen Green a few times, he's a monster.

Julio Jones is probably the other receiver I was most impressed with (I've seen Alabama a lot), he should go pretty high up too unless there's other WRs I haven't seen.

Mark Ingram?

Jones will go pretty highly too, top 20 I'd imagine. He's finished the season strongly which always helps. Ingram will probably go around the 15 - 20 mark or possibly later imo. He's not an elite RB, so is not worth drafting too highly. RB isn't the priority position its made out to be and it's much easier draft a capable RB in the later rounds than it is a lot of other positions. I'd take one of the highly rated defensive players such as Fairley, Dareus, Peterson or Bowers every day of the week before I'd take Ingram.

Eire-Dearg

Tom_Brady wrote: »

Jones will go pretty highly too, top 20 I'd imagine. He's finished the season strongly which always helps. Ingram will probably go around the 15 - 20 mark or possibly later imo. He's not an elite RB, so is not worth drafting too highly. RB isn't the priority position its made out to be and it's much easier draft a capable RB in the later rounds than it is a lot of other positions. I'd take one of the highly rated defensive players such as Fairley, Dareus, Peterson or Bowers every day of the week before I'd take Ingram.

I've seen a lot of Ingram. Plus with the Heisman, you'd imagine he'd be looked on pretty highly but I really haven't seen enough of him versus other RBs to see the full picture. But tbh, I'm a bigger fan of Trent Richardson, his backup. :pac:

Chucky the tree

Tom_Brady wrote: »

Im not a bookie, I don't give odds. You said you'd be surprised if he goes in the first. I'd be equally surprised if he doesn't go in the first. That sounds like evens to me.

€100 says Cam Newton - if he declares - goes in the first round.

I suppose I shouldn't be surprised when I think about how stupid some Franchises are. I'll definitely take the bet if you want to make it top 15.

Peyton Manning

Chucky the tree wrote: »

I suppose I shouldn't be surprised when I think about how stupid some Franchises are. I'll definitely take the bet if you want to make it top 15.

Well now you're going back on what you said, you either think he'll go in the first or you don't. It's much easier for me to say Im confident he'll go in the first because I know (almost) every team will get a pick, and Im confident someone will not want to pass him up. I can't say if he'll go in the top 15 because I don't know what the draft order will be. Leave that offer on the table, and I'll get back to it once the draft order is determined.

Chucky the tree

Tom_Brady wrote: »

Well now you're going back on what you said, you either think he'll go in the first or you don't. It's much easier for me to say Im confident he'll go in the first because I know (almost) every team will get a pick, and Im confident someone will not want to pass him up. I can't say if he'll go in the top 15 because I don't know what the draft order will be. Leave that offer on the table, and I'll get back to it once the draft order is determined.

I don't think he should go first, I didn't think Tebow should have either though and that's the worry. No problem waiting for the draft order.

Peyton Manning

eagle eye wrote: »

I've yet to see the guy throw a bullet pass which is something you have to be able to do in the NFL, Vick did that in college.

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Bullet arm doesn't not mean just arm strength.

Just to put this to bed once and for all, here's a couple of exams from one game alone that I've recorded and uploaded to show you both, because you obviously haven't watched the same Cam Newton everybody else has. (select the higher resolution)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXKD6ZKDNcY

I think it's quite clear neither have you have seen even anywhere near enough of Cam Newton to make a judgement, because he does things like this all the time. So how can you pass judgement on a player you've rarely seen? Why should people read anything into what you think of him when you're clearly making things up to suit your argument?

Chucky the tree

Second pass was good, first one was nothing special. Not much point going on about this and neither will change our mind about him. Newton has far more negatives then positives.

Peyton Manning

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Second pass was good, first one was nothing special.

Well I suggest you go over to Ten Yard Torrents and pick yourself up a copy of the game in HD and not rely on my poor frame rate video. It was an outstanding pass with tremendous power and trajectory. He didn't even step into the pass, it was coming right off of a step backwards with an immaculate release.

How often have you seen Auburn play this year?

Chucky the tree

Tom_Brady wrote: »

Well I suggest you go over to Ten Yard Torrents and pick yourself up a copy of the game in HD and not rely on my poor frame rate video. It was an outstanding pass with tremendous power and trajectory. He didn't even step into the pass, it was coming right off of a step backwards with an immaculate release.

How often have you seen Auburn play this year?

I can knock out plenty of videos of good throws by lots of college QB's though. One good throw does not make a QB, and certainly one good throw that involved making no reads or having to rely on footwork most definitely doesn't. In those two videos he locks on to the receiver and throws. Whens he's in the nfl and he does that but see's his WR his locked down tight? Can he quickly make his progressions? Can he quickly and smoothly change his stance so he can make a throw to the opposite side of the field? You've seen all of his games obviously so has he ever done this while staying in the pocket? If he locks onto his receiver and throws it into triple coverage like the last throw in the video it will either be a incompletion's or an int. He really reminds me of JR, not great footwork, throw off his backfoot a lot but his huge arm strength made up for that in college, but he got torched in the NFL because of it. Add in his character issues and he's a massive risk.

I've seen highlights of pretty much all his games and seen a few quarters here and there, not a huge amount but I've never seen him do the things I'd want an NFL QB to be able to do.

Peyton Manning

Chucky the tree wrote: »

I can knock out plenty of videos of good throws by lots of college QB's though. One good throw does not make a QB, and certainly one good throw that involved making no reads or having to rely on footwork most definitely doesn't. In those two videos he locks on to the receiver and throws. Whens he's in the nfl and he does that but see's his WR his locked down tight? Can he quickly make his progressions? Can he quickly and smoothly change his stance so he can make a throw to the opposite side of the field? You've seen all of his games obviously so has he ever done this while staying in the pocket? If he locks onto his receiver and throws it into triple coverage like the last throw in the video it will either be a incompletion's or an int. He really reminds me of JR, not great footwork, throw off his backfoot a lot but his huge arm strength made up for that in college, but he got torched in the NFL because of it. Add in his character issues and he's a massive risk.

I've seen highlights of pretty much all his games and seen a few quarters here and there, not a huge amount but I've never seen him do the things I'd want an NFL QB to be able to do.

Whoa, wait a minute. The only reason I posted up those two throws was because eagle eye said he has never seen him make a bullet pass, which you agreed with. I said he makes those types of throws all the time, and have posted video evidence to back it up. Don't try and weasel your way out of what was a false accusation like you did with your assertion that you didn't think he would be drafted in the first round.

You're right, one good throw does not make a good QB. But that's a bit out there, because you could say that about every QB. We can only go on what we've seen, and having seen every Auburn game since the Clemson win, I can tell you that he makes a hell of a lot more than "one good throw". Comparing him to JaMarcus Russell is ridiculous. The only thing they have in common is height. Russell was nowhere near the athlete Newton is apart from a vastly superior arm strength, but there's not a QB in the NFL that could match up to Russell's arm strength besides at a stretch Jay Cutler. I look at Newton - and I look at him a lot - and I see a warchest of tools that can make him a superstar at the next level. Perfect stature, elite speed and agility, pocket mobility, high accuracy, elite arm strength, bullet throws, excellent sell of the play action, solid mechanics, comes up big in clutch situations, ability to learn and adapt to playbooks quickly, confidence. He's got so much going for him. The only thing he needs to brush up on is his ability to read a defence, but even if he never reaches the Brady/Manning level in that department, it never stopped the likes of Roethlisberger being a huge success with the ability to improvise. It's too easy to say that "Oh wait until he comes up against an NFL calibre pass rush". That's something that whoever drafts on him will work with, and once he adapts (which he has shown he can do), defensive co-ordinators will think twice about pass rushing someone with his mobility.

As for his character issues, it's all very minor. Frankly, with how he has handled himself unter the most intense media scrutiny lately, and not only maintained a high level of performance but actually gotten better as the scrutiny grew, there are more positives than negatives about his character. Cam Newton is a leader and a winner, and one of the most important traits you can ask of a QB, performs when the chips are down.

eagle eye

Tom_Brady wrote: »

Perfect stature, elite speed and agility, pocket mobility, high accuracy, elite arm strength, bullet throws, excellent sell of the play action, solid mechanics, comes up big in clutch situations, ability to learn and adapt to playbooks quickly, confidence. He's got so much going for him. The only thing he needs to brush up on is his ability to read a defence, but even if he never reaches the Brady/Manning level in that department, it never stopped the likes of Roethlisberger being a huge success with the ability to improvise. It's too easy to say that "Oh wait until he comes up against an NFL calibre pass rush". That's something that whoever drafts on him will work with, and once he adapts (which he has shown he can do), defensive co-ordinators will think twice about pass rushing someone with his mobility.

Ok then can we break these up and go through them and explain to me what you are seeing.

What makes you say he has good pocket mobility?
What are solid mechanics to you?
How do you decide he has the ability to learn and adapt to playbooks quickly? He has always played in a spread offense.

As for the play action that you are suggesting he is good at. I've never seen him lined up under center. Have you?

Peyton Manning

eagle eye wrote: »

Ok then can we break these up and go through them and explain to me what you are seeing.

What makes you say he has good pocket mobility?

The fact that he can throw off a pass rush with how quick his feet are. His lateral quickness is staggering. I've lost count of the amount of plays he's kept alive that a less mobile QB would simply be unable to. He keeps plays alive with his mobility, which either allows his receivers time to get open, or allows him to break the pocket and scramble. His poise in the pocket is unrivalled. Just go back and look at the SEC Championship game at the weekend. South Carolina blitzed him constantly - don't forget their pass rush is the best in the SEC - and he actually surprised me with how well he read it. He danced around blitzers, and had Josh Dickerson, who was tasked with a QB spy role all day, in his pocket. Seriously, you are vastly under-rating his pocket presence too. Of his 246 pass attempts this year, only 29 of those attempts have come outside of the pocket. This guy shrugs off and avoids defenders with the same authority as Ben Roethlisberger, and his ability to keep a play alive is priceless. He's very similar to Ben, and there are certainly similarities with Josh Freeman too.

What are solid mechanics to you?

The power he generates off of his back foot, the fact that he has as smooth a release as you'll see in college football. He can throw from almost any position because of the power he can generate when he swivels his hips. He's very good at getting his feet planted at lightning speed to make a throw, and he looks like he can make a throw at any second by constantly keeping the ball cocked. He has a smooth, swift throwing motion too, and the fact that he can generate such power and trajectory without stepping into his throws is downright scary.

How do you decide he has the ability to learn and adapt to playbooks quickly? He has always played in a spread offense.

As for the play action that you are suggesting he is good at. I've never seen him lined up under center. Have you?

The fact that he came into Auburn with little experience of playing at that level and has looked completely natural. I've seen him read defences with ease at times, he definitely has the capability to do it. As for playing under centre, he has taken a few snaps there actually. Sam Bradford played in a spread offence too, rarely under centre and it hasn't affected his transition. He even said himself that people focus on it too much, and that the main thing you gotta get used to is that it shortens the drop. Newton is athletic enough to play under centre, and certainly has the footwork for a seemless drop back. He sells play action from the shotgun brilliantly, I have no doubt he could do it from under centre too. He has actually sold some great play actions this year from under centre and done a great job of it too.

Do you admit you were wrong when you said he didn't throw bullet passes? If so, do you not think you could be wrong here too because you obviously havent watched as much of him as I have with some of the claims you've made.

eagle eye

Tom_Brady wrote: »

Do you admit you were wrong when you said he didn't throw bullet passes? If so, do you not think you could be wrong here too because you obviously havent watched as much of him as I have with some of the claims you've made.

No I still haven't seen him throw a ball with real zip on it.

As for the rest of what you have posted above. I seen him in plenty of games this year. He certainly is clutch, there is no question about that. The Alabama game showed that but it also show that his pocket mobility is not good. He got sacked a couple of times in that game and it was his own fault.

As I've said all along, I'm not saying he won't make it. I've never said that. I just think that there are a lot of questions that will remain unanswered after this season.

I haven't seen him show good pocket mobility. What I'm talking about it standing tall and moving around the pocket. I've seen him duck and move but thats not the same thing.

Playing under center is real important. Bradford didn't do much of it but Bradford has a cannon arm and had great footwork. Newton's footwork is not that good and he doesn't have an arm like Bradford on what we have seen so far.

The guys Newton is like moreso than anybody else are Vince Young and Tim Tebow. Until Tebow makes it there are going to be question marks over that type of QB. Vince Young has done ok but not nearly well enough for a team to take a big risk on Newton.

You heard all the people giving out about McDaniels taking Tebow in the first round last year. Personally I'm a fan of the guy and I do think he will make it but its more down to the intangibles than the skills he came out of college with. With Newton I'm still unsure about those intangibles.

Peyton Manning

eagle eye wrote: »

No I still haven't seen him throw a ball with real zip on it.

As for the rest of what you have posted above. I seen him in plenty of games this year. He certainly is clutch, there is no question about that. The Alabama game showed that but it also show that his pocket mobility is not good. He got sacked a couple of times in that game and it was his own fault.

As I've said all along, I'm not saying he won't make it. I've never said that. I just think that there are a lot of questions that will remain unanswered after this season.

I haven't seen him show good pocket mobility. What I'm talking about it standing tall and moving around the pocket. I've seen him duck and move but thats not the same thing.

Playing under center is real important. Bradford didn't do much of it but Bradford has a cannon arm and had great footwork. Newton's footwork is not that good and he doesn't have an arm like Bradford on what we have seen so far.

The guys Newton is like moreso than anybody else are Vince Young and Tim Tebow. Until Tebow makes it there are going to be question marks over that type of QB. Vince Young has done ok but not nearly well enough for a team to take a big risk on Newton.

You heard all the people giving out about McDaniels taking Tebow in the first round last year. Personally I'm a fan of the guy and I do think he will make it but its more down to the intangibles than the skills he came out of college with. With Newton I'm still unsure about those intangibles.

You are severely under-rating Newton's poise in the pocket. I don't know what else I can do to convince you. I'll make more youtube clips if it helps but I'm sure you'll just find a way to dismiss them too. As for his footwork, I thought it was pretty common knowledge that most of the criticism of his footwork is when he abandons the pocket. His footwork when he stays in the pocket is faultless. The only reason I say you haven't seen much of him is I find it completely bizarre that these are the aspects of his game you find questionable. Trust me, the last thing Cam Newton needs to worry about is his pocket play. He's not the complete package just yet, but if you think his biggest problem is his pocket mobility, poise and footwork, then you must rate him higher than me! And as for Sam Bradford having a stronger arm than Newton? That may be the most ludicrous thing I've ever read on this forum, and I'm actually shocked you could even say that with what I presume is a straight face. And as for not seeing him throw with no real zip? You clearly haven't watched the Georgia or Arkansas games to name only two. There were several in the Alabama game you claim to have watched too. I have all these games on my hard drive, I would be more than willing to burn them to a few DVDs if you want to watch them.

Prefab Sprouter

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Raiders don't have a first round pick and QB isn't our first priority.

Agreed. A decent WR would be much more valuable to the Raiders at this point. A running game with limited passing game will only get you so far.

neilster

Tom_Brady wrote: »

Redskins just gave McNabb a new contract, there's no way they'll even consider drafting a QB in the first round.

As for the Bills, they won't take a QB. They seem to be happy with Fitzpatrick for next year, which is a mistake imo. Either way, Luck is going to Carolina unless Clausen suddenly becomes a hero over the last few weeks. There's no way Luck will fall to the Bills. They'll work on that defensive line and rightly so.

You are just plain wrong McNabb can be dropped after the 10th day of the next season , thats late March 2011 at no financial penalty whatsoever , after that he will be due bonuses

Lets look at Shanahan in 2006 he had a pretty capable QB in Plummer in Denver certainly serviceable coming off an OK season and he dropped him for Cutler in the draft , this is the same guy making the same type of decision in March . In Denver they had to pay Plummer in 2006 and still dropped him

As to the draft and the Bills if you read it again i said it was an outside possibility but drafters usually draft on standard of need not on position , Luck might not get to the bills on the board but that may save R Fitz not whether it is right . Same argument might be made with Clausen last year , he may be OK down the track but after Carolina watching the Rams+Bradford , neither them or Bills would walk past Luck

Peyton Manning

neilster wrote: »

You are just plain wrong McNabb can be dropped after the 10th day of the next season , thats late March 2011 at no financial penalty whatsoever , after that he will be due bonuses

Lets look at Shanahan in 2006 he had a pretty capable QB in Plummer in Denver certainly serviceable coming off an OK season and he dropped him for Cutler in the draft , this is the same guy making the same type of decision in March . In Denver they had to pay Plummer in 2006 and still dropped him

If the Redskins draft a QB ahead of a wide receiver I'll be absolutely shocked. Donovan McNabb is still a very capable QB, much more reliable than Jake Plummer was in what was his final year in the NFL. There's no way they draft a QB in the first round. Absolutely no way. There are so many bigger needs.

Syferus

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Add in his character issues and he's a massive risk.

As with most things in the world of college football 'character issues' means people freaked out at the idea that pay-to-play very much exsists and certain colleges are very willing to play ball. His father - and probably himseld too - played with the idea of compensation for play. In the end both saw sense long before anything came out and decided to opt for Auburn.

The other 'issues' were cheating on a couple tests, something we all ahve done in some manner if we get off our high horses. The stolen laptop situation was him buying it, not him actually stealing it himself. The end result of all that, throwing the laptop out the window, was more farce than serious and indeed from interviews and from people I know who are die-hard college football fans from Alabama, he comes across more of a harmless jock with exceptional talent than a powder keg waiting to explode in the face of an NFL team.

He's very playful on the field - after all the abuse Alabama fans gave him in he Iron Bowl, throwing money at him, the stadium MC playing music in extremely bad taste (Son of a Preacher Man, Take the Money and Run) the way he reacted after scoring a TD in leading Auburn to their come-from-behind victory in the Iron Bowl was to cover his mouth and run over to the Aubrn fans with his mouth covered only to take his hands away to show himself grinning like a chesire cat rather than lashing out. I think that tells you way more about the guy's temperment than any 'character issues' you've read about.

Peyton Manning

Syferus wrote: »

As with most things in the world of college football 'character issues' means people freaked out at the idea that pay-to-play very much exsists and certain colleges are very willing to play ball. His father - and probably himseld too - played with the idea of compensation for play. In the end both saw sense long before anything came out and decided to opt for Auburn.

The other 'issues' were cheating on a couple tests, something we all ahve done in some manner if we get off our high horses. The stolen laptop situation was him buying it, not him actually stealing it himself. The end result of all that, throwing the laptop out the window, was more farce than serious and indeed from interviews and from people I know who are die-hard college football fans from Alabama, he comes across more of a harmless jock with exceptional talent than a powder keg waiting to explode in the face of an NFL team.

He's very playful on the field - after all the abuse Alabama fans gave him in he Iron Bowl, throwing money at him, the stadium MC playing music in extremely bad taste (Son of a Preacher Man, Take the Money and Run) the way he reacted after scoring a TD in leading Auburn to their come-from-behind victory in the Iron Bowl was to cover his mouth and run over to the Aubrn fans with his mouth covered only to take his hands away to show himself grinning like a chesire cat rather than lashing out. I think that tells you way more about the guy's temperment than any 'character issues' you've read about.

Well bloody said. Cam Newton's character would make me invest any time I had in doing all I could to draft him. The guy is a born champion. If you want character issues, go look at Ryan Mallet.