1st Round Draft -Drafting Quarter Backs

neilster

these teams i think need to think seriously about drafting a QB



Bills - THis may be a touch harsh but I feel that Gailey likes Fitzy but if Luck is there i think the bills will move

Dolphins - I would say Henne is definitely on borrowed time

Redskins - Shanahan knows QBs and knows McNabbs play has been dreadful coupled with the fact that DC is a coachkiller and Shanahan needs to correct this

Bengals - Palmers salary in 2011 will probably mean he wont return along with the 80% passer rating

Vikes - If Favre doesnt return and TJack keeps throwing picks a QB will be traded for or picked in draft

Titans - If Fisher survives and thats a big if when the owner loves VYoung , team keeps losing and Fisher is in last year of contract coming into a labour dispute but if Fisher survives MusicCity will need a QB

Raiders - This may be an outside shot but Davis likes Campbell but Campbell isnt good enough, Gradkowski is tough limited and clutch and Cable loves him , Davis less so , Gradkowski cant stay on the field , a franchise QB is needed

Panthers - Probably the No 1 pick , Jerry Richardson (owner) and Matt Hurney (GM) ultimatley will not let Andrew Luck pass them by ...i think people have remembered the Rams in 2009


49ers - If Singletary is fired and Jim Harbaugh at Stanford is hired what are chances Stanfords QB gets drafted or trade up for Luck ...i think Panthers take Luck that even with Clausen , you cant pass on players who will ultimately rescue a franchise ...im thinking manning with the colts in 98

Cardinals - Whizzy needs to get a reliable QB , take a look at Skelton till season end and then draft highly or trade

Peyton Manning

Redskins just gave McNabb a new contract, there's no way they'll even consider drafting a QB in the first round.

As for the Bills, they won't take a QB. They seem to be happy with Fitzpatrick for next year, which is a mistake imo. Either way, Luck is going to Carolina unless Clausen suddenly becomes a hero over the last few weeks. There's no way Luck will fall to the Bills. They'll work on that defensive line and rightly so.

Chucky the tree

Raiders don't have a first round pick and QB isn't our first priority.

Hulk Hands

Panthers - Luck

Cardinals - Mallet

49ers/Vikings - Locker

That's how I would imagine it going.

frostie500

Tom_Brady wrote: »

Redskins just gave McNabb a new contract, there's no way they'll even consider drafting a QB in the first round.

The McNabb deal has get out clauses that would cost the Redskins very little so they could well be in the market for a QB.

Peyton Manning

Whisenhunt's job will be on the line, I doubt he's going to risk it on a rookie QB. Besides, if he didn't like Matt Leinart's attitude, there's no way he'll go for Mallett.

Hulk Hands

But what choice do the Cards have, they are in desperate need of a QB. Trade for someone like Kevin Kolb? Mallet will probably be the best option available to them, although he is more of a project than the other 2 likely 1st round QB's

Peyton Manning

Hulk Hands wrote: »

But what choice do the Cards have, they are in desperate need of a QB. Trade for someone like Kevin Kolb? Mallet will probably be the best option available to them, although he is more of a project than the other 2 likely 1st round QB's

Mallet is more of a fit for the Bengals I think - a team that has no problem drafting players with talent that can be offset by attitude problems. But they'll pass on him because it's looking more likely that they'll have a top 5 pick. I'd say the Cards will be one of a number of teams looking at Kolb, and it's a safer gamble for Whisenhunt. They could always pick up Christian Ponder or Nick Foles later on in the draft imo.

Eire-Dearg

Tom_Brady wrote: »

Either way, Luck is going to Carolina unless Clausen suddenly becomes a hero over the last few weeks. There's no way Luck will fall to the Bills. They'll work on that defensive line and rightly so.

Why did they pick Clausen so high up if he was going to be discarded for an even higher QB selection a year later?

Hulk Hands

A mid second round pick though? I think it was just a case that they couldn't let such an apparantly good player slide any further in that draft, especially in a position they needed. The overall cost of drafting Clausen wasn't that great

Peyton Manning

Eire-Dearg wrote: »

Why did they pick Clausen so high up if he was going to be discarded for an even higher QB selection a year later?

He wasn't really high up though was he? He was expected to be a high end first round draft pick, but he fell to 48th overall. I don't think anyone saw him falling that low in the draft. He's also been pretty terrible and his attitude is horrible (which explains why he fell in the draft).

If there's a coaching change, which there should be, then they'll definitely take a new QB. If not, they might address the defence and hope to get Matt Barkley next year, but you'd be an idiot to pass up on Andrew Luck when you have issues at QB. He's a once every 5 years type QB and is tailor made for the NFL.

mikemac

neilster wrote: »

t
Bills - THis may be a touch harsh but I feel that Gailey likes Fitzy but if Luck is there i think the bills will move

Andrew Luck won't get past the Panthers. They seem happy with Fitzpatrick who has been doing fine this year and they'll give him another year.

The Bills have a hell a lot of needs so they may be drafting best player available

As the 49'ers. Troy Smith is NFL starter quality imo. And they have Nate Davis to develop.

eagle eye

48 is still a high pick to spend on somebody though if you are just going to discard him after one year and not even try and develop him.

Eire-Dearg

Fair enough, I thought it was a relatively high pick to be thinking of getting another QB so soon, but I didn't know of his attitude problems. It was Carolina's first pick, iirc...

I haven't seen anything of Luck this year, but if he's as good as what's been said then it's obviously worth it

Hulk Hands

Clausen still has some trade value though for a team that are willing to put up with him. Bengals anyone?

Peyton Manning

eagle eye wrote: »

48 is still a high pick to spend on somebody though if you are just going to discard him after one year and not even try and develop him.

Seems to me like they took a punt with Clausen. He had fallen so low (48th is shockingly low considering the projections he was getting) that they figured they would take a chance. If he worked out, it was a steal, if not, well then there was a reason he fell so low. By all accounts, his attitude is that reason and he is unworkable.

But all that aside, if you have the first overall pick this year and your situation at QB is uncertain, you just don't pass up on Andrew Luck. A) He's too good. The QB core of the 2011 draft does not look strong outside of Matt Barkley.

eagle eye

Tom_Brady wrote: »

Seems to me like they took a punt with Clausen. He had fallen so low (48th is shockingly low considering the projections he was getting) that they figured they would take a chance. If he worked out, it was a steal, if not, well then there was a reason he fell so low. By all accounts, his attitude is that reason and he is unworkable.

But all that aside, if you have the first overall pick this year and your situation at QB is uncertain, you just don't pass up on Andrew Luck. A) He's too good. The QB core of the 2011 draft does not look strong outside of Matt Barkley.

For all that Luck has done this year, he is still a college player that you hope will make it. Clausen looked every bit as good as him in college is a very similar pro-style offense.

I think Luck is better than Clausen but I think Clausen makes it in the NFL. This is his rookie year and he wasn't expected to start this year. He needs to be given some time and another training camp will tell you whether he is going to make it or not. Just giving up on him that quickly is not a good idea.

The Panthers have loads of holes on their team, not just QB. They could get a really good deal on a trade down in this draft. There are loads of teams that need a QB very badly and will want to take the chance on Luck.

Peyton Manning

eagle eye wrote: »

For all that Luck has done this year, he is still a college player that you hope will make it. Clausen looked every bit as good as him in college is a very similar pro-style offense.

I think Luck is better than Clausen but I think Clausen makes it in the NFL. This is his rookie year and he wasn't expected to start this year. He needs to be given some time and another training camp will tell you whether he is going to make it or not. Just giving up on him that quickly is not a good idea.

The Panthers have loads of holes on their team, not just QB. They could get a really good deal on a trade down in this draft. There are loads of teams that need a QB very badly and will want to take the chance on Luck.

Well Im not accounting for any ridiculous offers, so if they get one then that changes the scenario completely. However, I think the other teams that need QBs will be happy to go for the likes of Mallett, Locker, Newton, Ponder, Foles, Pryor etc. (if they all declare) rather than trading up, and there's always the likes of Kevin Kolb who should be available too.

Although I don't think Carolina have a 2nd round pick (don't the Patriots have it?) so they could be tempted to trade to be fair.

Eire-Dearg

Titans, Cam Newton, please. :pac:

Syferus

Eire-Dearg wrote: »

Titans, Cam Newton, please. :pac:

You know, I think Michael Vick's reinvention will make more teams consider Newton as a project. Vick was obviously more pro-ready, but Newton would be a very interesting pick for a team that have the latiude at QB to take a risk, a team like the Jaguars where they have a starter they're not all that invested in.

That said, if the Jags were even half-serious they would have made sure to draft Tebow this year, inot leasrtfor the fact they'd have got huge financial benefit from having the area's favourite son.

Peyton Manning

Syferus wrote: »

Vick was obviously more pro-ready

I'm sorry, but that's a ludicrous statement. Vick coming out of Virginia Tech was more pro-ready than Newton? Why on earth do you think that?

Syferus

Tom_Brady wrote: »

I'm sorry, but that's a ludicrous statement. Vick coming out of Virginia Tech was more pro-ready than Newton? Why on earth do you think that?

Don't forget Newton was a college vagabond - he was the third QB at Florida (under Tebow, who is obviously the prototype for Newton) for two years before switching to a junior college. He'll only have had one year as a starter in a serious team entering the 2011 draft.

Peyton Manning

Syferus wrote: »

Don't forget Newton was a college vagabond - he was the third QB at Florida for tow years before switching to a junior college. He'll only have had one year as a starter in a serious team entering the 2011 draft.

And even having only one year, he has infinitely better accuracy and pocket presence than Vick did. He even has the arm strength to rival Vick. Vick's more conventional style and resulting form is only a recent development, he was never at the level Newton is at that the same age.

Syferus

Tom_Brady wrote: »

And even having only one year, he has infinitely better accuracy and pocket presence than Vick did. He even has the arm strength to rival Vick. Vick's more conventional style and resulting form is only a recent development, he was never at the level Newton is at that the same age.

Newton's mechanics and footwork have all been openly questioned, and for valid reasons too - I've even seen some coverage of 'insiders' suggesting he be converted to a h-back, alá the ridiculous stuff you heard last year about Tebow. There's obviously no way you decide to throw away half the abilities of a talent like Newton, but he has had accuracy issues in the pocket and he's rarely put into situations where he has to pass, something that will make more traditional NFL coaches somewhat jumpy.

Don't get me wrong; I'm a Newton fan and think he is a fantastic talent who is utterly red hot right now. He's also shown he's got the head for the big game with that pretty unbelievable comeback in the Iron Bowl and he's certainly forcing his way into the coversation of what the top QB picks in the 2011 draft will be.

Peyton Manning

Syferus wrote: »

Newton's mechanics and footwork have all been openly questioned, and for valid reasons too - I've even seen some coverage of 'insiders' suggesting he be converted to a h-back, alá the ridiculous stuff you heard last year about Tebow. There's obviously no way you decide to throw away half the abilities of a talent like Newton, but he has had accuracy issues in the pocket and he's rarely put into situations where he has to pass, something that will make more traditional NFL coaches somewhat jumpy.

Don't get me wrong; I'm a Newton fan and think he is a fantastic talent who is utterly red hot right now. He's also shown he's got the head for the big game with that pretty unbeleivable comeback in the Iron Bowl and he's certainly forcing his way into the coversation of what the top QB picks in the 2011 draft will be.

I don't see anything wrong with his accuracy. His completions percentage is only 3% less then Andrew Luck, and he responds fantastically when under pressure - that completion percentage goes up to 76.5% against the blitz, and he has 9 touchdowns and 0 interceptions in those situations. He's so much more ready for the pros than Vick was. His throwing mechanics do need work, but all rookies do. His physicality also puts him in a much better stead, at 6'6 he has no trouble seeing down the field over those linemen. I just thought it was a bizarre comment to say Vick was more pro-ready than Newton when entering the draft. It's really not true.

Syferus

Tom_Brady wrote: »

I just thought it was a bizarre comment to say Vick was more pro-ready than Newton when entering the draft. It's really not true.

It was simply to do with the fact Newton has had less time to adjust to being a starter and that it's unlikely whoever drafts him will do a Vick and be desperate enough throw him in at the deep end.

Vick has became a much more studious player since his jail term, but alot of his failings at Atlanta became more gaudy simply because of the cogs that surrounded him there - he was erratic, but his seeming insistence that he had to do it all himself wasn't completely off the mark either.

Chucky the tree

Vick was drafted number 1 overall, Cam will be late 1st at best. Not sure how Newton is more pro ready.

Peyton Manning

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Vick was drafted number 1 overall, Cam will be late 1st at best. Not sure how Newton is more pro ready.

Draft position has nothing to do with pro ready

Pro-ready means the ability to step into a pro-style offence as soon as possible. The NFL is becoming increasingly more pass-first orientated. Cam Newton is so far ahead of Michael Vick in his ability to step into a pro-style offence than Vick was at that stage. Seriously, nowhere else would this even be discussed.

As for Syferus mentioning Vick's added experience. Vick only has 1 more year experience in college than Newton. Over those two years, Vick had 177 completions. In his one single year, Cam Newton has 165. Vick's completion percentages were 59 and 54 respectively. Cam Newton's is 67. Vick threw for 20 touchdowns in two years. Newton has thrown for 28 this year alone. Newton also has a greater yards per attempt than Vick.

Ok, so you'll point to Vick's mobility. A competent scrambling QB will never be more pro-ready than an equally competent pocket passer. But still, here is some more stats for you. Vick rushed for 16 TD's in 2 years at VT. Cam Newton has rushed for 20 in one year at Auburn. Vick rushed for 1200 yards in 2 years at VT. Newton has rushed for 1400 in one year at Auburn. Newton also has a greater yards per attempt on rushing.

Add all this to the fact that Newton has gone undefeated, proven himself to be exceptional in clutch situations and has taken his team to the National Championship Game where they are heavy favourites, and finished the season as the number 1 ranked team in the country (Vick's VT only managed 6 and 2 in his two seasons). And all this in a much tougher conference and much tougher opposition.

Vick more pro-ready? Don't make me laugh.

Chucky the tree

Tom_Brady wrote: »

Draft position has nothing to do with pro ready

Pro-ready means the ability to step into a pro-style offence as soon as possible. The NFL is becoming increasingly more pass-first orientated. Cam Newton is so far ahead of Michael Vick in his ability to step into a pro-style offence than Vick was at that stage. Seriously, nowhere else would this even be discussed.

As for Syferus mentioning Vick's added experience. Vick only has 1 more year experience in college than Newton. Over those two years, Vick had 177 completions. In his one single year, Cam Newton has 165. Vick's completion percentages were 59 and 54 respectively. Cam Newton's is 67. Vick threw for 20 touchdowns in two years. Newton has thrown for 28 this year alone. Newton also has a greater yards per attempt than Vick.

Ok, so you'll point to Vick's mobility. A competent scrambling QB will never be more pro-ready than an equally competent pocket passer. But still, here is some more stats for you. Vick rushed for 16 TD's in 2 years at VT. Cam Newton has rushed for 20 in one year at Auburn. Vick rushed for 1200 yards in 2 years at VT. Newton has rushed for 1400 in one year at Auburn. Newton also has a greater yards per attempt on rushing.

Add all this to the fact that Newton has gone undefeated, proven himself to be exceptional in clutch situations and has taken his team to the National Championship Game where they are heavy favourites, and finished the season as the number 1 ranked team in the country (Vick's VT only managed 6 and 2 in his two seasons). And all this in a much tougher conference and much tougher opposition.

Vick more pro-ready? Don't make me laugh.

I'd ignore stats in college to be honest. College is so gimmicky that stats really don't say much. It's hard to really argue this as 10 years is a big difference. I still wouldn't touch Newton though and he'll be a huge bust.

jdivision

I think the Cards will trade for Marc Bulger myself

Dohnny Jepp

Eire-Dearg wrote: »

Titans, Cam Newton, please. :pac:

I would love to see the titans trade for Kolb.

eagle eye

Tom_Brady wrote: »

Draft position has nothing to do with pro ready

Pro-ready means the ability to step into a pro-style offence as soon as possible. The NFL is becoming increasingly more pass-first orientated. Cam Newton is so far ahead of Michael Vick in his ability to step into a pro-style offence than Vick was at that stage. Seriously, nowhere else would this even be discussed.

As for Syferus mentioning Vick's added experience. Vick only has 1 more year experience in college than Newton. Over those two years, Vick had 177 completions. In his one single year, Cam Newton has 165. Vick's completion percentages were 59 and 54 respectively. Cam Newton's is 67. Vick threw for 20 touchdowns in two years. Newton has thrown for 28 this year alone. Newton also has a greater yards per attempt than Vick.

Ok, so you'll point to Vick's mobility. A competent scrambling QB will never be more pro-ready than an equally competent pocket passer. But still, here is some more stats for you. Vick rushed for 16 TD's in 2 years at VT. Cam Newton has rushed for 20 in one year at Auburn. Vick rushed for 1200 yards in 2 years at VT. Newton has rushed for 1400 in one year at Auburn. Newton also has a greater yards per attempt on rushing.

Add all this to the fact that Newton has gone undefeated, proven himself to be exceptional in clutch situations and has taken his team to the National Championship Game where they are heavy favourites, and finished the season as the number 1 ranked team in the country (Vick's VT only managed 6 and 2 in his two seasons). And all this in a much tougher conference and much tougher opposition.

Vick more pro-ready? Don't make me laugh.

There is a lot of untrue stuff here and stuff that is unimportant too.

Its not about your team winning Championships, that doesn't mean you will be a star in the NFL. Thats not important at all.
Just have a look at the starting QBs in the league right now and tell me how many won championships in college? I can tell you its not many.

Vick was much more prepared for the pros than Cam Newton currently is.

Have a look at the youtubes below and explain to me why you think Newton is better than Vick in the pocket. You might also notice that Newton is never under center. Now we don't know if Cam Newton is a great leader or just an incredible athlete on a great team right now. I've yet to see the guy throw a bullet pass which is something you have to be able to do in the NFL, Vick did that in college.

I'm not dishing Cam Newton here at all. He has the height and mobility and good arm strength but he still has questions to answer. How well does he read the defense, can he play under center, he has to improve his footwork in the pocket. Don't forget that he is playing behind a very powerful offensive line in college football and they don't go after him much because they are afraid of his running ability. That won't happen in the pros.

All I'm saying is that Vick was ready to go in the pros, Newton is not right now. If he goes in the draft this year he will not be starting in 2011. He will need time, if he can stay in college and show he can play under center next year then there is a chance that he gets picked very early but he has to show these things or he is going to be a late first rounder at best.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F65K0ETLQZk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQTD-oabPeI

Peyton Manning

eagle eye wrote: »

There is a lot of untrue stuff here and stuff that is unimportant too.

What's untrue about that post? I could easily say the same about yours. In fact, I will.

Its not about your team winning Championships, that doesn't mean you will be a star in the NFL. Thats not important at all.
Just have a look at the starting QBs in the league right now and tell me how many won championships in college? I can tell you its not many.

It's still an important trait though, and when you look at how Auburn have got to the NCG, it's all on the back of Cam Newton and clutch performances when the chips were down. If you're telling me coaches aren't impressed by that, I'm calling you a liar.

Vick was much more prepared for the pros than Cam Newton currently is. Have a look at the youtubes below and explain to me why you think Newton is better than Vick in the pocket. You might also notice that Newton is never under center. Now we don't know if Cam Newton is a great leader or just an incredible athlete on a great team right now. I've yet to see the guy throw a bullet pass which is something you have to be able to do in the NFL, Vick did that in college.

I don't need to look at youtube highlight videos, I've seen plenty of Cam Newton and Auburn this year, plenty more than you I'm sure. You talk about Vick having the bullet arm over Newton, well let me tell you, Cam Newton has the strongest arm of this year's draft class without question. Go watch his touchdown pass to the tight end Lutzenkirchen to tie the game against Georgia. Newton has a rocket arm, elite throwing power and he displayed it as recently as last Saturday ffs. We don't know if Newton is a leader or just a good athlete? He's both. He's completely taken charge of an offence in his first year. Scouts have been creaming themselves over how quickly he's taken to it. He's single handedly taken a team with a poor defence to the National Championship in clutch situations, largely off the back of plays he has made. All of this with the nation on his back and watching his every move. There's not a coach in the NFL who won't be impressed by that. Natural talent only gets you so far - look at JaMarcus Russell. It's your character and dedication that takes you that extra mile, and everything you see, read and here says Newton has that in abundance.

I'm not dishing Cam Newton here at all. He has the height and mobility and good arm strength but he still has questions to answer. How well does he read the defense, can he play under center, he has to improve his footwork in the pocket. Don't forget that he is playing behind a very powerful offensive line in college football and they don't go after him much because they are afraid of his running ability. That won't happen in the pros.

The only thing that concerns me about Newton is a) his footwork, and b) his staring down receivers and reluctance to check down. That's something he will work on and he will improve on in the pros, because let's face it, there's no point in him checking down in college when he can just take the ball himself and run. He'll learn to read pro defences, there's always a learning curve. Not being an expert at reading defences hasn't stopped the likes of Ben Roethlisberger succeeding, and Newton and Big Ben share a lot of likenesses in how they play.

All I'm saying is that Vick was ready to go in the pros, Newton is not right now. If he goes in the draft this year he will not be starting in 2011. He will need time, if he can stay in college and show he can play under center next year then there is a chance that he gets picked very early but he has to show these things or he is going to be a late first rounder at best.

I'm not saying he'll go first or anything, but I couldn't disagree more with the opinion that Vick was more pro-ready. Vick's first overall pick shouldn't really factor in here. The only other quarterback of note drafted that year was Drew Brees in the second round. Newton is up against two of the most pro-ready QBs in years in Luck and Locker. Vick had plenty to work on too, hence his only starting 2 games in his rookie season. Imo, he had far more red flags in far more important categories than Newton has, and it's really only something he's addressed upon his comeback. His accuracy was poor, he also had questions on whether he could read a defence, he was rarely put into situations where he had to pass etc.

It would not surprise me one bit if Newton went top 10 or top 15 depending on draft order, and depending on who drafts him, I can certainly see him starting more games than Vick did in his rookie year. No, he's not 100% ready but he's certainly further along than Vick was at the same stage. Imo, Cam Newton is a decent wonderlic and a few good interviews away from being a sensation in the NFL.

Chucky the tree

Bullet arm doesn't not mean just arm strength. Getting away from jsut the Vick comparisons but Newton translates as being a very poor prospect I think. I'd be very surprised if he goes top 15 or even 1st round.

Peyton Manning

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Bullet arm doesn't not mean just arm strength.

I'm aware of what a bullet throw/pass (not a bullet arm as you call it) is. Do you not think that arm strength is essential in order for a player to be capable of a bullet throw? Have you even seen an Auburn game this year? Cam Newton can execute a bullet pass as well as anyone in college football at the moment. It's not even up for discussion. Your little one liners are completely irrelevant in this thread so far.

Peyton Manning

Chucky the tree wrote: »

I'd be very surprised if he goes top 15 or even 1st round.

I will bet you any sum of money you want that Newton will go in the first round if he declares. You name it, I'll put up the money.

Chucky the tree

Tom_Brady wrote: »

I will bet you any sum of money you want that Newton will go in the first round if he declares. You name it, I'll put up the money.

What odds will you give me?

Eire-Dearg

Anyone who has seen even a quarter of Auburn's games this season, and I've watched them the last two weeks since they were on TV, and you won't not have seen a bullet throw from Newton

Peyton Manning

Chucky the tree wrote: »

What odds will you give me?

Im not a bookie, I don't give odds. You said you'd be surprised if he goes in the first. I'd be equally surprised if he doesn't go in the first. That sounds like evens to me.

€100 says Cam Newton - if he declares - goes in the first round.

Eire-Dearg

Don't know if this deserves a new thread as it's a little off topic, but what other offensive players will we be seeing early in the draft? (WR and RBs)

Peyton Manning

Eire-Dearg wrote: »

Don't know if this deserves a new thread as it's a little off topic, but what other offensive players will we be seeing early in the draft? (WR and RBs)

AJ Green (WR from Georgia) is the most talented wide receiver to come out of college since Calvin Johnson and is nailed on to go top 5, or top 3 depending on draft order. Pound for pound, he's the most talented player in the draft this year imo and is a once in a generation type wide receiver. We're just spoiled that Megatron and Green have come along so close to each other.

Eire-Dearg

I've seen Green a few times, he's a monster.

Julio Jones is probably the other receiver I was most impressed with (I've seen Alabama a lot), he should go pretty high up too unless there's other WRs I haven't seen.

Mark Ingram?

Peyton Manning

Eire-Dearg wrote: »

I've seen Green a few times, he's a monster.

Julio Jones is probably the other receiver I was most impressed with (I've seen Alabama a lot), he should go pretty high up too unless there's other WRs I haven't seen.

Mark Ingram?

Jones will go pretty highly too, top 20 I'd imagine. He's finished the season strongly which always helps. Ingram will probably go around the 15 - 20 mark or possibly later imo. He's not an elite RB, so is not worth drafting too highly. RB isn't the priority position its made out to be and it's much easier draft a capable RB in the later rounds than it is a lot of other positions. I'd take one of the highly rated defensive players such as Fairley, Dareus, Peterson or Bowers every day of the week before I'd take Ingram.

Eire-Dearg

Tom_Brady wrote: »

Jones will go pretty highly too, top 20 I'd imagine. He's finished the season strongly which always helps. Ingram will probably go around the 15 - 20 mark or possibly later imo. He's not an elite RB, so is not worth drafting too highly. RB isn't the priority position its made out to be and it's much easier draft a capable RB in the later rounds than it is a lot of other positions. I'd take one of the highly rated defensive players such as Fairley, Dareus, Peterson or Bowers every day of the week before I'd take Ingram.

I've seen a lot of Ingram. Plus with the Heisman, you'd imagine he'd be looked on pretty highly but I really haven't seen enough of him versus other RBs to see the full picture. But tbh, I'm a bigger fan of Trent Richardson, his backup. :pac:

Chucky the tree

Tom_Brady wrote: »

Im not a bookie, I don't give odds. You said you'd be surprised if he goes in the first. I'd be equally surprised if he doesn't go in the first. That sounds like evens to me.

€100 says Cam Newton - if he declares - goes in the first round.

I suppose I shouldn't be surprised when I think about how stupid some Franchises are. I'll definitely take the bet if you want to make it top 15.

Peyton Manning

Chucky the tree wrote: »

I suppose I shouldn't be surprised when I think about how stupid some Franchises are. I'll definitely take the bet if you want to make it top 15.

Well now you're going back on what you said, you either think he'll go in the first or you don't. It's much easier for me to say Im confident he'll go in the first because I know (almost) every team will get a pick, and Im confident someone will not want to pass him up. I can't say if he'll go in the top 15 because I don't know what the draft order will be. Leave that offer on the table, and I'll get back to it once the draft order is determined.

Chucky the tree

Tom_Brady wrote: »

Well now you're going back on what you said, you either think he'll go in the first or you don't. It's much easier for me to say Im confident he'll go in the first because I know (almost) every team will get a pick, and Im confident someone will not want to pass him up. I can't say if he'll go in the top 15 because I don't know what the draft order will be. Leave that offer on the table, and I'll get back to it once the draft order is determined.

I don't think he should go first, I didn't think Tebow should have either though and that's the worry. No problem waiting for the draft order.

Peyton Manning

eagle eye wrote: »

I've yet to see the guy throw a bullet pass which is something you have to be able to do in the NFL, Vick did that in college.

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Bullet arm doesn't not mean just arm strength.

Just to put this to bed once and for all, here's a couple of exams from one game alone that I've recorded and uploaded to show you both, because you obviously haven't watched the same Cam Newton everybody else has. (select the higher resolution)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXKD6ZKDNcY

I think it's quite clear neither have you have seen even anywhere near enough of Cam Newton to make a judgement, because he does things like this all the time. So how can you pass judgement on a player you've rarely seen? Why should people read anything into what you think of him when you're clearly making things up to suit your argument?

Chucky the tree

Second pass was good, first one was nothing special. Not much point going on about this and neither will change our mind about him. Newton has far more negatives then positives.

Peyton Manning

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Second pass was good, first one was nothing special.

Well I suggest you go over to Ten Yard Torrents and pick yourself up a copy of the game in HD and not rely on my poor frame rate video. It was an outstanding pass with tremendous power and trajectory. He didn't even step into the pass, it was coming right off of a step backwards with an immaculate release.

How often have you seen Auburn play this year?

Chucky the tree

Tom_Brady wrote: »

Well I suggest you go over to Ten Yard Torrents and pick yourself up a copy of the game in HD and not rely on my poor frame rate video. It was an outstanding pass with tremendous power and trajectory. He didn't even step into the pass, it was coming right off of a step backwards with an immaculate release.

How often have you seen Auburn play this year?

I can knock out plenty of videos of good throws by lots of college QB's though. One good throw does not make a QB, and certainly one good throw that involved making no reads or having to rely on footwork most definitely doesn't. In those two videos he locks on to the receiver and throws. Whens he's in the nfl and he does that but see's his WR his locked down tight? Can he quickly make his progressions? Can he quickly and smoothly change his stance so he can make a throw to the opposite side of the field? You've seen all of his games obviously so has he ever done this while staying in the pocket? If he locks onto his receiver and throws it into triple coverage like the last throw in the video it will either be a incompletion's or an int. He really reminds me of JR, not great footwork, throw off his backfoot a lot but his huge arm strength made up for that in college, but he got torched in the NFL because of it. Add in his character issues and he's a massive risk.

I've seen highlights of pretty much all his games and seen a few quarters here and there, not a huge amount but I've never seen him do the things I'd want an NFL QB to be able to do.