[Feedback] What's wrong with the Airsoft forum? How do we fix it?

TNTQ

Long time reader, first time poster

I find as a retailer we have to be very careful with every word written, I commend Tony (Shiva) for his contributions and his passion with regard to boards.

Saying that I'd just like to ask a few questions (to Steve)...

• How is the Airsoft forum looked upon in the hierarchy of boards.ie? A pain in the arse? A valuable revenue stream?
• What sort of a profile does the Airsoft forum have in terms of user numbers when compared to other areas of boards?
• Are boards.ie worried about declining numbers and possible loss of revenue or is the goal purely to create a utopia of rule abiding users?

I'm not trying to insinuate that revenue earning is the only goal of boards, i'm just trying to understand the ultimate goal of reforms...

• A quiet uneventful forum that doesnt rock the boat where every user tows the line or gets the road

or

• A vibrant forum where valued contributors impart their knowledge and have the craic with their mates (within certain rules)

^^^^Personal opinion

Charlie

hrta

Do you know some thing, there's nothing to fix, it's all here.

Boards.ie Guidelines
How To Be A Better Poster

Post in a forum where the subject is relevant.

You should put posts where they belong. A library where people put books in any section they want will soon become unusable. Resist the temptation to say "I'm not going to post in the right forum because more people read THIS forum;” all that will happen is that your topic will immediately go off topic, you will be slated and the moderator will move the post to the right place and probably infract you. You may get fewer responses on the correct forum, but they will be far higher "worth". You want Quality, not quantity.

Contribute in a constructive way.

Nobody is interested in your laser sharp ability to cut someone down. Nobody is interested in the funny thing you cat did, unless it’s a thread on funny things cats do (basically, we mean cut down on the LOLCats). The odd humourous comment thrown into a thread is fine but consistently contributing nothing but noise/negativity is not helpful. One word answers aren’t useful. Please use the "rate thread" feature to vote on a thread instead of jumping in and posting 'this subject is silly and pointless'. If you like what a poster had to say, use the thanks system.

Comment on the post not the poster.

Responding to someone's point with personal attacks, regardless of how "witty" you think they are, is not big or clever. It just comes across, at best, as being an ass and at worst a bully with a small doodah (we mean “mind” of course).

It’s much better to stay on the topic of their post, not on the person who posted it. People will respect you for that, take your opinion more seriously and you put the ball back in their court to answer your points.

Abuse is tantamount to saying "you have beaten me with your argument; I can only resort to name calling".

If someone abuses you, don’t respond in kind. Report the post and a moderator will swing by to review it. Abusing them back simply drops you to their level and will probably get you both infracted and/or banned.

Respect/manners go a long way.

Around these parts, people recognise good contribution. This isn’t YouTube or 4chan (*). Being respectful, mannerly and even occasionally acknowledging that someone has made you consider something in a different light, is going to win friends and influence people a lot more than being yet another rude "anonymous" internet keyboard warrior. No one wants to be around that guy.

* These sites are rife with extremely abusive language and content and that’s not the sort of culture we have or want on boards.ie

You are not anonymous.

This is the greatest myth of the internet. Unless you are fairly technically skilled and go to some lengths, you are by no means anonymous on the internet. If you do something illegal and the police approach us with the correct documentation (usually a court order) we will hand them everything we know about you (as we are required to do under Irish Law). This is not a platform for anonymous defamation. YOU are responsible for what YOU say.

No freedom of speech.

This is a private website. There is no "right" to freedom of speech here. We, the Admins and moderators DO want to promote discussion but FREE un-moderated discussion online turns into a screaming match between children. We believe that rules of etiquette should be applied (see below). Shouting about how we have infringed your "freedom of speech" on a privately owned website is silly. You can use blogger.com to say what YOU like, what you aren’t entitled to is access to the community we have built here without abiding by the community's rules, as decided and enforced by us.

Enjoy yourself and enjoy the site.

Don’t take everything too seriously, so someone on the internet disagrees with you. Ok, *shrug*. You don’t have to argue with them until everyone agrees that you are superior to them you know

These are guidelines for Boards.ie. People might refer to them as "rules" but it is impossible to create a set of "rules" to govern human interaction. These are broad brushstrokes of what we here at Boards want for the part of the internet we call home.

If these aren’t to your liking there are other websites perhaps better suited to your needs and tastes but we believe these form a reasonable, rational, mature basis for adults to chat natter discuss laugh debate joke banter and interact.

The boards.ie rules of etiquette are as follows:

Be Civil (Don't be a dick!)
Don't post porn
Don't spam your message
Don't advertise your company
Don't abuse people personally
Don't backseat moderate
Don't give / request medical or professional advice
Not reading the rules is against the rules
Discretion of the Moderator
Don't post stuff that is not safe for work [NSFW]
Forbidden topics of discussion

Moderators and Administrators
What are moderators and administrators?

Moderators oversee specific forums. They generally have the ability to edit and delete posts, move threads, and perform other actions. Becoming a moderator for a specific forum is usually rewarded to users who are particularly helpful and knowledgeable in the subject of the forum they are moderating.

Administrators are the people who have overall control of everything that happens on the board. They oversee how the board is styled, what forums to create and how to organize them, what information to require from members and who to appoint as moderators.

hrta

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=67805036&postcount=1

Notices
The Dispute Resolution Forum is subject to all Boards.ie Site Guidelines.

Posting abusive comments about a moderator you have issue with will result in further action being taken – this could be an escalation of Infraction to ban or a ban to a category ban - this is at the discression of the CMod(s).

Your appeal will be closed and no further appeals on the matter will be entertained. We will not allow people to abuse moderators (or indeed any other members) in this forum.

You may not post in a thread that is not related to you, even if you think you’re being helpful, without being invited to do so by the CMod or Admin looking after the issue at hand. This applies to all members of the site.

If you are unclear about something, please ask for clarification.

If you have an issue with a ban or infraction, the first thing you should always do is PM the Mod(s) of the forum and ask for clarification on what’s gone wrong.
Please don’t expect an answer straight away, Mods are volunteers and are not always in a position to deal with your issue. Give it at least a day.
If you don’t feel satisfied with the answer, or if you haven’t had an answer in more than 2 days, you should start a new thread here in the Dispute Resolution Forum.
When you start this thread, please state what forum you have an issue with, provide links to the thread if applicable (you can get the link by logging out if you’ve been banned from the forum).
A CMod will then investigate and discuss with you and the Mod(s) involved. They may invite the Mod(s) or any other members involved to post on the thread to clarify things.
After these discussions, the CMod will post their decision.
If you feel that the outcome to this is unsatisfactory, you may request an Admin to look things over.
An Admin’s decision is final.
Private message conversations in relation to the topic at hand are ok to publish in this forum in an attempt to resolve an issue. This is contrary to normal Boards.ie Guidelines that permission be sought before publication of any PMs sent or received.

hrta

How do I appeal a moderation decision?
It is against the rules to argue with a moderator action in such a way that it drags a discussion off-topic from its original goal (short: never argue with a mod in-thread - it almost always leads to a ban). Always attempt to message the moderator via the Private Messaging system before making a scene out of something.

If you have not received a reply via PM in a reasonable amount of time (please allow at least a day, our mods are volunteers and aren’t online 24/7) try to PM another moderator of that forum.

If you have still not received a reply, or wish to escalate the issue, contact the Category Moderator via PM. Category Moderators are listed on the bottom right of every forum. Feedback is not for Queries or Complaints about an altercation, despite a common misconception still held by some of the older users.

Horse84

Agree with you 100% hrta.

Also from reading this thread, i get the feeling that people seem to think that boards IS airsoft in this country it isn't!!

The people 'debating' on here represent a TINY percentage of airsofters in Ireland. A lot of them, as far as i can see both users and mods alike (not you Steve), know each other from playing with or against each other, are on different teams etc and all carry past grieveances of one kind or another. Most of them i'll bet have forgotten how they started in the first place. This lead to all these so called 'clieques' or whatever you call them being formed. I can put a face to about 5 names here i'd say!

I don't skirmish, am not from the greater dublin area, i'm just an everyday airsoft enthusiast/plinkerer who uses boards as a tool (a very useful one at that) for looking at new kit, getting advice and picking up tips from very smart and helpful people, some of whom because of the **** that's been building up around here. I'm sure there are a lot more people like me out there.

I for one am glad this thread and the other one exist ,cause for the moment it keeps all the crap in one heap and stops destroying the rest of the forum.

At the end of the day i've no answers as to how to improve things here, change the mods or bring in a new charter, grand fine do it but it won't change a thing. read hrta's post. it's about respect lads and ladies pure and feckin simple and i include the mods in that too. Some of you on here are world champion keyboard warriors,(and we all know who) i mean seriously watching ye take apart a post and argue is something to behold. At the end of the day we all dress up as soldiers, play with what are basically expensive toy guns and some run of us run around the field and shoot each other with small plactic bb's. That's it! It's meant to be fun, stop taking it so seriously.

There are the only points i'm going to make, except to say this to the noobies and young people watching this train crash that airsoft is not only about boards.ie i'd hope to think it's bigger than that. Use it for what it is and ignore the rest of it.

Steve

Stercus Accidit wrote: »

Boards.ie's own unique brand of nerdy beurocracy is the source of the problem, if this were an airsoft forum, rather than some obscure sub-forum among the rest we'd have some control over it.

Nobody's actually stopping you doing that. The Internet's that way --->
Do let us know how you get on.

Deferring to C-mods and Admins with rules isn't going to work, and the secret mod rules just show the level of distain among the nerds behind the keyboards have for the lay, thick users.
I've clashed with this sh1te myself in the past, feedback and all that, and other posters reasonable well thought out points were shot down by Mods of all sort of sh1te sticking their oar in and there is no sence of common sense or fairness. I am getting really dissenfranchised with this, and the time is perfect for an accountable airsofters run alternative to this.

You really do not like rules, do you. How does that work in a skirmish? Do you openly flout site rules there? When you get caught, do you blame the judges that applied the rules? Do you call them nerds hiding behind their rulebooks?
Really.

Steve

Danin wrote: »

A friend and I discussed this situation last night and we came up with....

If the moderators in this section of boards were just that, experienced moderators moved in from other areas you'd possibly see a lot more banned in the first couple of weeks but then things would settle, on the other hand they would be coming at it from a purely general boards moderator perspective and allegiances and cu dos wouldn't come into question.

I'm of the frame of mind now, that if you were to ask certain airsoft moderators who are also players to move to a completely different area within boards to moderate would they still be there in 6 months ?

as I said in a previous post would this be beneficial for new moderators in the case of learning the ropes and then after a period of time being switched to the airsoft forum. So that they have a greater understanding of an impartial approach.

is this or something like it already in place Steve, as I dont know

No, unfortunately mods are sometimes literally thrown in at the deep end. In most cases, there are experienced mods on hand to bring them up to speed on how situations are handled and there is a wealth of knowledge available on the mod forum.

Steve

My apologies to WM for what is about to follow:

War Machine 539 wrote: »

Ladies and Gentleman, my final post on this issue.

Finally. Thank you.

Because its going to be you, or this forum if things arent fixed.

Wait, was that a threat?
Was it?

War Machine 539 wrote: »

Pity, If ever you do set one up drop me a line, free help is right here!

Final +1

War Machine 539 wrote: »

No its that hard for Mods to keep their egos in check.

Final +2

War Machine 539 wrote: »

No offense here, But I have better things to be do with my time than to do your job for you. I suggest you read back over this discussion and find the examples your self!

Final +3
Advice: Don't make stuff up - it may harm your credibility in future posts if you make insubstantiated claims.

War Machine 539 wrote: »

Stonewalling, erasion of relevent posts based on difference of opinion? If you dont think thats unfair, you dont deserve your position period.

Final +4

War Machine 539 wrote: »

This is the point, what makes your opinion better than mine? This thread was setup regarding feedback and its been sensored. Its pathetic. Im not going to continue with this discussion, not because what Im saying is unfounded I might add, but because, you as a moderator have a nice little gang around you to step in if it all goes pear shaped for you. You have all the cards. That point no matter how hard you deny it is true. No point in fighting a losing battle. Im going to bide my time on this one!

I hope you manage to fix this lads, honestly I do. See you on the fields.

Final +5, really glad you're not going to continue.

War Machine 539 wrote: »

Just because it fits the Charter doesnt make it right. Impartiality is something that does not exist on Boards.

Final +6

War Machine 539 wrote: »

I would love to hash this out over a few pints! Hmmm pints!

Please do and let the rest of us get on with important adult stuff.

Ladies and gentlemen, this is what's more commonly known as trolling, posting purely to get a reaction out of other users and not willing to offer any substantive agruement or reference to their claims.

Please consider this when chatting in the charter review thread. Consider also what you think a suitable moderator reaction should be.

Apologies for singling you out there WM, you happened to be the one that posted it.

Steve

scanlant wrote: »

Steve, just an idea. Any chance of a ban amnesty in this thread? (in as far as that is technically feasible)

I'm not suggesting you ignore personal abuse where it exists, by all means edit as warranted*, but when regular posters are trying to articulate points, we need as many of them (as much as they still survive on this forum, most have left in the last year) as possible to steer the Airsoft forum back on the correct course.

The only rule I have, and will continue to, enforce in this thread is the boards prime directive: "Don't be a dick", aka no personal abuse. I will attempt to leave it at that but will make no guarantees.

* I'd like to see a specific point added to the charter to run personal abuse reported by tertiary member (i.e. someone that read some light hearted poking between two team mates and reported it) by the person affected by said "abuse." senordingdong's "personal abuse" of Doc a while ago, where senordingding was banned, springs to mind.

That's a valid point, thank you.

Extra work? Sure. Mod can't handle the extra workload (or the current workload for that matter)? Step down.

I'll graciously ignore that.

Steve

fayer wrote: »

This forum is importnant for our sport, I have sat with members of the dail justice committee and staff form the doj and they have both referee to threads on here.

I think we all realise the importance of this forum - I just wish people in general could remember the importance or remaining civil when airing their views here.

Boards must respect the community feedback if they insist in retaining control of the centre of online airsoft for ireland.

Boards is respecting community feedback - that's why you have this thread which by sheer coincidence is called "[Feedback] What's wrong with the Airsoft forum? How do we fix it?". Boards is not trying to control or influence the community in any way, boards merely facilitates discussion of the sport, facilitates it's retailers and sites and facilitates members trading their equipment with each other. The only thing being asked of the community in return for all of that is that it works within the overall site guidelines - the apparent refusal of which by a vocal minority is nothing but bewildering.

They must respect the community wishes, if they won't put in the work for that, close the entire forum, let the community run it's own space (iaa etc).

As I said to Stercus, you're more than welcome to go set up another site, I wish you the best of luck if that's what you choose. The truth of the matter is, and some people may not like hearing this, it simply won't work. Boards is way bigger than Irish airsoft, it always will be. This forum won't get closed - it will always be here and free to those willing to work within its boundaries.

TNTQ

Bump - You might have missed this with the barrage of posts you had to reply to there mate.

TNTQ wrote: »

I'd just like to ask a few questions (to Steve)...

• How is the Airsoft forum looked upon in the hierarchy of boards.ie? A pain in the arse? A valuable revenue stream?
• What sort of a profile does the Airsoft forum have in terms of user numbers when compared to other areas of boards?
• Are boards.ie worried about declining numbers and possible loss of revenue or is the goal purely to create a utopia of rule abiding users?

I'm not trying to insinuate that revenue earning is the only goal of boards, i'm just trying to understand the ultimate goal of reforms...

• A quiet uneventful forum that doesnt rock the boat where every user tows the line or gets the road

or

• A vibrant forum where valued contributors impart their knowledge and have the craic with their mates (within certain rules)

^^^^Personal opinion

Charlie

Steve

TNTQ wrote: »

Bump - You might have missed this with the barrage of posts you had to reply to there mate.

My apologies, I didn't miss it, I had to go and attend to some other things.

TNTQ wrote: »

Long time reader, first time poster

Welcome

I find as a retailer we have to be very careful with every word written, I commend Tony (Shiva) for his contributions and his passion with regard to boards.

I can sympathise with that - mods have the same problem, wanna swap?

Saying that I'd just like to ask a few questions (to Steve)...

• How is the Airsoft forum looked upon in the hierarchy of boards.ie? A pain in the arse? A valuable revenue stream?
• What sort of a profile does the Airsoft forum have in terms of user numbers when compared to other areas of boards?
• Are boards.ie worried about declining numbers and possible loss of revenue or is the goal purely to create a utopia of rule abiding users?

I'm really not qualified to answer those questions as I am merely a voluntary moderator here and I am not privy to the financial workings of boards but I shall offer my personal opinion based on various snippets of information that are reasonably up-to-date:

All forums are valued here, as are all users that are willing to work within the site guidelines. the fact that boards is the biggest online discussion forum in Ireland means that those guidelines must actually work.

The airsoft forum, since the start, has consistently featured highly in the rankings here in terms of views and posts - mods were given stats on that with the caveat that we don't disclose any figures in public, sorry.

From what I've read, boards as a whole are not worried about declining numbers - quite the opposite in fact. The concern is how to deal with the exponential growth of the site in recent times and how to plan for it in terms of servers and capacity.

I'm not trying to insinuate that revenue earning is the only goal of boards, i'm just trying to understand the ultimate goal of reforms...

• A quiet uneventful forum that doesnt rock the boat where every user tows the line or gets the road

or

• A vibrant forum where valued contributors impart their knowledge and have the craic with their mates (within certain rules)

I would think that it will be somewhere in the middle, maybe 75% towards the latter.

If you want to talk turkey about revenue streams and such, I suggest you contact the community managers - Dav is probably more relevant in the context of this forum - you can pm him or hello@boards.ie will reach him.

Hope that answers your questions.

Stercus Accidit

Steve wrote: »

Nobody's actually stopping you doing that. The Internet's that way --->
Do let us know how you get on.

I don't like your opinion so piss off Grand stuff altogether.

You really do not like rules, do you. How does that work in a skirmish? Do you openly flout site rules there? When you get caught, do you blame the judges that applied the rules? Do you call them nerds hiding behind their rulebooks?
Really.

Do you shoplift when no-one is looking for the buzz? Thats about as relevant a question, have a read of the thread title, in black and bold at the top of the page, have I inconvenienced you by replying as requested? Don't insinuate that I am dishonest, that is a dishonest tactic. When rules don't work you discuss them, who started this thread Steve, what is it about? You ask for opinions, you aren't always going to hear the ones you like, thats not to say you can call me a cheater in a round about way, you don't do that as an airsofter to another airsofter, I have always played fair, its a poor reflection on you to have even gone down this road.

senordingdong

scanlant wrote:

by the person affected by said "abuse." senordingdong's "personal abuse" of Doc a while ago, where senordingding was banned, springs to mind.

Meh, ofcourse I was harmlessly slagging a good mate of mine, but I can't deny that I did break the rules.

In this regard...a once small community of people who all knew one another has exploded and not everyone knows each other now. So we have to start treating this like an internet forum and not a private irc.

But I still maintain there is an issue with the moderation. It seems mods don't want to infringe upon another mods decisions in some cases, but do in others.
Furthermore, some mod decisions seem to be opinions based as gospel.

Gerrowadats situation being a perfect example of both.
He was banned wrongly. Although this has been brought to the attention of everyone and their mother, other mods and/or higher powers don't want to intervene. They also just don't want to hear about it.

So that feedback was deemed pointless and dismissed...all those involved were told to pipe down and their posts would be deleted.
Then it was moved to another thread, which was a promising step, but now that thread has been locked (seemingly by a different mod, though I could be wrong about this)

All of this infact, further exemplifies the problem of bad modding.

(sorry to bring it up again after you told us not to but like I said, the thread you allocated for it is now locked)

My solution?....we need mods that are completely detached from the airsoft scene. Eventually the hullabaloo will calm down and people will fall in line.

senordingdong

senordingdong wrote: »

My solution?....we need mods that are completely detached from the airsoft scene. Eventually the hullabaloo will calm down and people will fall in line.

Actually, let me elaborate on this a little.
This was a very small community so we could all take the piss and have a laugh at that time.
Like I said, the forum has grown and so we can't keep speaking to one another as casually as we would in the pub.

Now, the moderators are just as much a part of this problem because some of them know some players and others don't. So some light hearted insulting can get picked up completely wrong in some cases. It could seem preferential in others.
Rule out the possibility of an issue like this by having mods that are detached from the scene and the 'cliques'.

Dogwatch

This thread is for opinions about airsoft forums and their problems.

No one who has complained about the banning of Gerrowadat has started a thread about it. Instead of taking this on off topic again,why not start your own thread.

fayer

Steve wrote: »

As I said to Stercus, you're more than welcome to go set up another site, I wish you the best of luck if that's what you choose. The truth of the matter is, and some people may not like hearing this, it simply won't work. Boards is way bigger than Irish airsoft, it always will be. This forum won't get closed - it will always be here and free to those willing to work within its boundaries.

I think you missed my point, boards could be said to be using its superior influence to the decrement of our sport. If the sport is asking for a change, boards will not make, and also will not close the forum here to allow a community based one market share to develop the moral authority is gone.

I'm speaking very abstractly to make the point that with the market dominance boards.ie has (in respect of Irish airsoft online) this comes with a responsibly to act on the community's wishes.

I appreciate this feedback thread Steve and all the work you have put in, your only in the door and helping to move issues forward. My only gripe is I would like to see actions after, not just talk.

It says a lot about the type of personality that makes a good mod, head first into a difficult situation with new people, mature conflict resolution at its best.

fayer

Dogwatch wrote: »

This thread is for opinions about airsoft forums and their problems.

No one who has complained about the banning of Gerrowadat has started a thread about it. Instead of taking this on off topic again,why not start your own thread.

I think the events leading to the banning of Dave highlight exactly what is wrong with the forum, immature moderation and moderators.

Steve

senordingdong wrote: »

(sorry to bring it up again after you told us not to but like I said, the thread you allocated for it is now locked)

Well I guess nobody's going to follow the rules in this thread so I'll open the other one.

It doesn't change anything, we still can't do anything about it but if you feel the need to have a pointless rant then so be it.

thermo didn't lock it btw, I did when I split the posts from this thread.

Steve

fayer wrote: »

I think you missed my point, boards could be said to be using its superior influence to the decrement of our sport. If the sport is asking for a change, boards will not make, and also will not close the forum here to allow a community based one market share to develop the moral authority is gone.

I'm speaking very abstractly to make the point that with the market dominance boards.ie has (in respect of Irish airsoft online) this comes with a responsibly to act on the community's wishes.

I appreciate this feedback thread Steve and all the work you have put in, your only in the door and helping to move issues forward. My only gripe is I would like to see actions after, not just talk.

It says a lot about the type of personality that makes a good mod, head first into a difficult situation with new people, mature conflict resolution at its best.

Answer me this:
Who is the sport?
The people that run it or the participants?
Both maybe? Collectively called the Airsoft community?

If it really is the wish of the community that this forum be closed, why is the community still using it?

Surely if there was somewhere better, they'd go there and the forum would die a natural death.

Compare it to skirmish sites: Should site owner A be told to shut his site down because it's too popular and site owner B isn't getting enough customers? How would that benefit the sport? How would that be morally justified?

As far as actions are concerned, be patient. If this were a court case, would you be demanding action whilst evidence is still being given?

fayer

Steve wrote: »

Answer me this:
Who is the sport?
The people that run it or the participants?
Both maybe? Collectively called the Airsoft community?

If it really is the wish of the community that this forum be closed, why is the community still using it?

Surely if there was somewhere better, they'd go there and the forum would die a natural death.

Compare it to skirmish sites: Should site owner A be told to shut his site down because it's too popular and site owner B isn't getting enough customers? How would that benefit the sport? How would that be morally justified?

As far as actions are concerned, be patient. If this were a court case, would you be demanding action whilst evidence is still being given?

I understand it is a stretch just making a point on responsibly. The community based ones, even the IAA one with the large amount of traffic that site gets dosnt get content. First hit you get for info on Airsoft is here, that is where many new comers get there first experience.

If this was a court case I'd be enjoying my self

defenderdude

fayer wrote: »

I think you missed my point, boards could be said to be using its superior influence to the decrement of our sport. If the sport is asking for a change, boards will not make, and also will not close the forum here to allow a community based one market share to develop the moral authority is gone.

I'm speaking very abstractly to make the point that with the market dominance boards.ie has (in respect of Irish airsoft online) this comes with a responsibly to act on the community's wishes.

I appreciate this feedback thread Steve and all the work you have put in, your only in the door and helping to move issues forward. My only gripe is I would like to see actions after, not just talk.

It says a lot about the type of personality that makes a good mod, head first into a difficult situation with new people, mature conflict resolution at its best.

Point well made, but is it the community's wish to remove mods / change the style of moderation or is it the wish of a section of the community (albeit a vocal and articulate section)?

Should there be a poll to establish some figures? I suspect most people here dont want to get involved eitherway - they just wanna shoot...

fayer

defenderdude wrote: »

Should there be a poll to establish some figures? I suspect most people here dont want to get involved eitherway - they just wanna shoot...

MOD-Factor!

I just wanna shoot, I put in my community service and have the ulcer to show for it. I do feel strongly about issues in here as it is the first part of airsoft many people see, and after how far we have come it would kill me to see this sport hampered by stupidity in a forum.

Anyway back to work....

Steve

fayer wrote: »

I understand it is a stretch just making a point on responsibly. The community based ones, even the IAA one with the large amount of traffic that site gets dosnt get content. First hit you get for info on Airsoft is here, that is where many new comers get there first experience.

If this was a court case I'd be enjoying my self

That's simply not true.

I've just tried "Airsoft", "Airsoft Ireland", "Airsoft in Ireland", "Irish Airsoft", "Info on Airsoft" on Google.ie and none of the searches return a link to boards remotely near the top of the list.

"Airsoft discussion forums in Ireland" doesn't even return a first hit.

What search terms did you use to come up with that "first hit" claim? Did you just make it up?

Stercus Accidit

I'll clarify my position on the whole thing;

There needs to be a clear line drawn for when moderator tools are to be used, and that line needs to be drawn in such a way as to allow for a certain amount of levity in a thread, otherwise people will not enjoy posting and will stop contributing.

Simply make this line clear, and allow mods to guide people back on topic without using their ban/infract/close tools.

Arguments also have to be allowed run their course, otherwise bad feelings are unresolved, often users simply need to cool their heads down, I know this myself from experience.

Once the moderation policy is clear and allows for an enjoyable forum, people wont get so upset, to determine what is acceptable, listen to the user base, and maintain a dialogue. There should not be a classroom atmosphere, there should be accountability, Steve, you gained great credibility off the bat for starting this thread.

There needs to be more transparancy in policy, for users and mods, secret rules are a big part of the problem, and creates an us versus them mentality, I want to see the policy for when mod tools are used in black and white, and be able to comment on them if I think for example an argument should be alowed run its course without a lock, that a thread spiralling off-topic should be steered back on course or let run.

My big gripe is that these changes are so hard to implement, and I blame the wider boards.ie procedures for this, they make perfect sense on a grand scale, but at our scale it creates issues, and in the absense of threads like this one, those issues persist un-addressed.

Danin

Steve wrote: »

The only thing being asked of the community in return for all of that is that it works within the overall site guidelines - the apparent refusal of which by a vocal minority is nothing but bewildering.

Hi Steve,
I'll admit, I came into this discussion very downhearted due to the fact I felt we had been here before and I thought that steps were being taken in the background by boards as a result of the information supplied by the thread and it was only a matter of time before we the community were introduced to these changes. So for that matter I apologies to everyone if I came across as just a "hot Head"

I'm making a concerted effort to remain positive regarding my posts in this thread and I'd suggest that others do the same for the greater good. If members have an issue with Steve PM him don't waste valuable time for others "who may have a lot to offer" by posting up here.

On another point Steve, I'd like to remark on the quote above. We the Community or minority are asking that boards recognise that we feel some of the guidelines of the moderation of the forum are not being adhered to. If you look through this thread alone we've had comments from well respected and seasoned members who may I add very rarely comment on issues like this, voicing their opinion on the way this Airsoft forum has been poorly moderated in recent times by certain moderators "not all moderators".
We have even had respected retailers do the same, this is something we haven't seen before, so surly at this point Boards can take this into consideration and recognise it may need to be reviewed because it is also bewildering to the community or "minority" that this issue seems to be taboo and boards remains resolute in its response that the problem lies solely at the feet of the community.

Boards may not always remain the biggest in Ireland, you never know what the future may bring but I can assure you that from my experience the Airsoft community in general are a loyal bunch. So if Boards met them in someway half way, if that day did come, boards would at least be able to count on the support of the Airsoft community to remain here.

Stercus Accidit

Steve wrote: »

That's simply not true.

I've just tried "Airsoft", "Airsoft Ireland", "Airsoft in Ireland", "Irish Airsoft", "Info on Airsoft" on Google.ie and none of the searches return a link to boards remotely near the top of the list.

"Airsoft discussion forums in Ireland" doesn't even return a first hit.

What search terms did you use to come up with that "first hit" claim? Did you just make it up?

Very unlikely, it used to be the case, maybe not anymore, draw from that what you will, but Fayer isn't one for making anything up.

Shiva

Stercus Accidit wrote: »

Very unlikely, it used to be the case, maybe not anymore, draw from that what you will, but Fayer isn't one for making anything up.

I said I'd stay out of this, but I probably won't

It was the number one result when you looked for Irish airsoft stuff at one stage (thats how I discovered airsoft) , but the huge growth in the number of retailers and sites, and the increasingly sophisticated methods of SEO we're using on our websites meant we leapfrogged Boards quite some time ago.

Shiva

defenderdude wrote: »

Point well made, but is it the community's wish to remove mods / change the style of moderation or is it the wish of a section of the community (albeit a vocal and articulate section)?

Should there be a poll to establish some figures? I suspect most people here dont want to get involved eitherway - they just wanna shoot...

This seems to have turned into a "Mods Out" thread, due in no small part I imagine to my raving.....so let me apologise if I'm responsible for that.

Let me clarify my position......

I think the rules/charter needs tweaking. Not as much as some people seem to think though - they've been working well for some time now.

I think the style of moderation needs to change. If that means some mods need to step down, then so be it - but I'm not calling for a blanket firing of mods, and I'm sorry if it was taken up that way. However, if the mods themselves cant adapt or change their style of moderation, then they need to step down of their own accord.

This malaise started because of inconsistent and/or unwarranted thread lockings, underhanded and secretive post deletions and generally sneaky (for want of a better word) behaviour, whether by accident or design. Nobody is saying abuse or rule breaking should be tolerated - of course it shouldn't, nor is anyone saying the mods shouldn't be respected for what they have to do and put up with. But its very hard to show respect for someone who doesnt show an equal amount of respect for the users - both "sides" need to adjust.

And one final point....theres a lot of talk about the vocal minority being the only ones who want change, and its simply not true. Unfortunately, I cant point to any evidence to contradict that impression, because I've had a lot of feedback from customers and other retailers who are saying "Yeah, you're right, things need to change - but I cant be arsed getting involved."

So yeah....maybe we're getting the forum we deserve because not enough people care enough to take part in the discussion ?

Arkslippy

I think a cooling off period between mods and the posters that are annoyed is required.

In everyday life, most people try to get on with things by automatically -

Give the benefit of the doubt when the opportunity to take umbrage with a persons comments when they are irked.

Behave from day to day in a manner which is appropriate to a situation in work or home , treat people like you would expect them to treat you.

Apply commonsense to the "irish" way of slagging each other and being sarcastic without meaning harm, we all do this and generally it doesn't lead to falling out.

Nanny state !!!!!!!!!! - from both views, for posters and mods, in your normal lives, I'm sure mods don't need to control and clamp down on everything like is happening here. Posters, I'm sure you all have a think about what you say and the effect it will have on others before saying it.

On the state of the airsoft forums themselves. I believe just from a cursory look, if you remove the news thread and the 2 photo threads, there is very little posting on the general subs,t way and the vast majority is on adverts. So a lot of fuss over a very small posting level outside of the news and the paid for threads.

I think a little bottle of copon is required and back to preconflict lines, let things roll on and before you delete or lock a thread, have a think about how it reflects on q mod if it was not on a forum, but similar in the workplace or similar.

We are all adults, so behave and treat that way.