[Feedback] What's wrong with the Airsoft forum? How do we fix it?

fayer

OzCam wrote: »

My apologies to Steve, but I need to say something. My last post was about the wider issue of responsibility, not one individual user.

If Gerrout had minded his language a bit better he wouldn't have been banned. He'd be here, posting useful content, where we need him.

I don't want to see people banned. I want to see civil discussions.

He accepted the ban, the problem is he was banned a second time for the same offence because a mod quoted something wrong.

Graham, 2 things.

1) your the IAA vice chair, I'm alarmed your throwing around statements like that.
2) if this click is a bunch of friends / team supporting a fellow member what's wrOng with that. Most of the people here who you seem to be hinting towards are some of the most active and have given the most to the sport, they are standing up for issues on here because this is the main online area for Irish airsoft (right or wrong)

Stercus Accidit

Boards.ie's own unique brand of nerdy beurocracy is the source of the problem, if this were an airsoft forum, rather than some obscure sub-forum among the rest we'd have some control over it.

Deferring to C-mods and Admins with rules isn't going to work, and the secret mod rules just show the level of distain among the nerds behind the keyboards have for the lay, thick users.

I've clashed with this sh1te myself in the past, feedback and all that, and other posters reasonable well thought out points were shot down by Mods of all sort of sh1te sticking their oar in and there is no sence of common sense or fairness. I am getting really dissenfranchised with this, and the time is perfect for an accountable airsofters run alternative to this.

Shiva

Gatling wrote: »

Well said Lemming, why is it when something happens in here the same people demand we the rightous get what we want when we want or else ,every mod bar kd has been subjected to the treatment ,Robster /the master ,gandalf ,lemmings,andy now even thermo has caused reaction seems nobody will be as a mod unless selected by one clique or another ,its common knowledge and we all know it ,

My reputation on these forums is spotless - I've never had so much as an infraction.
Before this current issue, I've never questioned a mod decision or criticised a mod.
Anytime I was going to make an announcement or say something I thought might even be slightly contentious, I ran it by the mods first.

And lets call a spade a spade Gatling - I'm the one leading the charge on the need to change the standard of moderation in this forum, so I'd really appreciate if you didnt generalise about me or make accusatory and condescending statements.

Steve....again, thanks for starting this topic. I really do appreciate it, despite what you might think. I doubt much will change, but at least you're trying, and I have to give you credit for that. I'm sure you regret ever getting involved in this mess, but thank you anyway.

We're obviously not going to reach agreement on some of these matters, so I'm going to bow out of this thread at this point.

Danin

A friend and I discussed this situation last night and we came up with....

If the moderators in this section of boards were just that, experienced moderators moved in from other areas you'd possibly see a lot more banned in the first couple of weeks but then things would settle, on the other hand they would be coming at it from a purely general boards moderator perspective and allegiances and cu dos wouldn't come into question.

I'm of the frame of mind now, that if you were to ask certain airsoft moderators who are also players to move to a completely different area within boards to moderate would they still be there in 6 months ?

as I said in a previous post would this be beneficial for new moderators in the case of learning the ropes and then after a period of time being switched to the airsoft forum. So that they have a greater understanding of an impartial approach.

is this or something like it already in place Steve, as I dont know

fayer

Rightly or wrongly boards.ie has the pole position online for airsoft in Ireland. Many retailers and sites will confirm this. During my time in the IAA we looked at moving the central hub for community info to a more community based source, I spoke about this before here, however it's just not possible boards is too dominant.

So we now have members of the community looking at issues in the centre of our online presence, the banned one being someone did unmeasureable good for the community and sport as chairman of the IAA, and is a serious professional heavyweight(pies are not a hobby), I respect his opinion. They see an issue, they want it actioned. But we get no action.

This forum is importnant for our sport, I have sat with members of the dail justice committee and staff form the doj and they have both referee to threads on here. Boards must respect the community feedback if they insist in retaining control of the centre of online airsoft for ireland. They must respect the community wishes, if they won't put in the work for that, close the entire forum, let the community run it's own space (iaa etc).

Airsoft Reloded

The IAA having control of it wouldn't work anyway because the non affiliated would have to start their own forum then.

Why not let the sites/retailers/event organisers mod their own thread (Obviously with no power to ban or suspend people) with one Boards mod overseeing . Your not allowed to say anything negative on any of those threads so its not like you'll get a lot of posts deleted that the mods wouldn't do anyway. This would free up mods for the main forum and that would limit the need for new mods.

I don't know if that has been said before but it would allow the experienced mods to be the ones on the main forum and perhaps limit (if even slightly) some of these issues???

fayer

Airsoft Reloded wrote: »

The IAA having control of it wouldn't work anyway because the non affiliated would have to start their own forum then.

No one said that

IAA already helps out the admins here on several topics re sites etc.

Airsoft Reloded

fayer wrote: »

No one said that

IAA already helps out the admins here on several topics re sites etc.

That probably came out a little differently than I mean't it to dude

War Machine 539

Ladies and Gentleman, my final post on this issue.

Its pointless arguing this.

Several very relevant posts have been removed and subject to alienation based on the Moderators view of our opinion.

This system of ''Your entitled to your opinion, unless we think its wrong'' is the exact reason this forum is broken. Moderators consistently abuse the task (THEY VOLUNTEERED FOR) for whatever reason I do not know.

Alienating someones opinion in a public forum is the LOWEST form of cowardice.

This forum was designed to discuss problems on this forum, except problems where Moderators look bad.

Im disgusted to know that the Mods who play an honor based game, cant seem to apply honor to the other facets of their hobby!

Everyones opinion is relevant, and no opinion is wrong.


Learn this point or hand in your notice.


Because its going to be you, or this forum if things arent fixed.

War Machine 539

Shiva - Can you put your forum address up? Even as your Signature . . . . . we need something better than this.

scanlant

Steve wrote: »

Doc, you should know better than that. See you in a week.

Steve, just an idea. Any chance of a ban amnesty in this thread? (in as far as that is technically feasible)

I'm not suggesting you ignore personal abuse where it exists, by all means edit as warranted*, but when regular posters are trying to articulate points, we need as many of them (as much as they still survive on this forum, most have left in the last year) as possible to steer the Airsoft forum back on the correct course.

* I'd like to see a specific point added to the charter to run personal abuse reported by tertiary member (i.e. someone that read some light hearted poking between two team mates and reported it) by the person affected by said "abuse." senordingdong's "personal abuse" of Doc a while ago, where senordingding was banned, springs to mind.

Extra work? Sure. Mod can't handle the extra workload (or the current workload for that matter)? Step down.

Shiva

War Machine 539 wrote: »

Shiva - Can you put your forum address up? Even as your Signature . . . . . we need something better than this.

I dont have one. I did give it some thought, but to be honest, setting one up would be a monumental task, and there would be serious issues to overcome - the main ones being that it'd be very difficult to drive traffic to it, and also a commercial entity such as myself in charge of running a forum would always be open to accusations of bias by users and other commercial entities.

All that aside, I really dont want to give up on Boards so easily. As I said before, I've been around a long time, and I know the potential this place has. I know it might look like I'm just on a personal crusade, but I'm not - I genuinely have logical and non-personal reasons for my posts over the last few weeks. I hope Steve's initiative in starting this thread bears fruit. I'm going to hold off and see what comes of this thread - its due to be closed this week anyway.

War Machine 539

Pity, If ever you do set one up drop me a line, free help is right here!

Poccington

scanlant wrote: »

Steve, just an idea. Any chance of a ban amnesty in this thread? (in as far as that is technically feasible)

I'm not suggesting you ignore personal abuse where it exists, by all means edit as warranted*, but when regular posters are trying to articulate points, we need as many of them (as much as they still survive on this forum, most have left in the last year) as possible to steer the Airsoft forum back on the correct course.

* I'd like to see a specific point added to the charter to run personal abuse reported by tertiary member (i.e. someone that read some light hearted poking between two team mates and reported it) by the person affected by said "abuse." senordingdong's "personal abuse" of Doc a while ago, where senordingding was banned, springs to mind.

Extra work? Sure. Mod can't handle the extra workload (or the current workload for that matter)? Step down.

Why a ban amnesty? Is it really that hard for people to abide by the rules?

'Cause if it is, well then the problems of the Airsoft forum extend beyond the view that the Mods(Or their methods) are the problem.

War Machine 539

No its that hard for Mods to keep their egos in check.

Poccington

War Machine 539 wrote: »

No its that hard for Mods to keep their egos in check.

Please provide examples of it happening in this thread?

War Machine 539

No offense here, But I have better things to be do with my time than to do your job for you. I suggest you read back over this discussion and find the examples your self!

Witcher

Could we actually have the people of this "clique" named please? If people are big enough to say it exists name the people in it and be done with it.

Using the "oh deyz are ganging up on us" line is just an attempt to hide the fact people are sickened by the forum at the present.

Speaking only for myself here but back at the start I said I had nothing against the mods as users just the way they're going about it, that hasnt changed, if at the end of this they were still here and said "right we'll go with these changes" I wouldn't mind.

I don't appreciate it being insinuated that everyone complaining here is out for the heads of the current moderators because I for one am not.

Poccington

War Machine 539 wrote: »

No offense here, But I have better things to be do with my time than to do your job for you. I suggest you read back over this discussion and find the examples your self!

I have read over the thread.

The only Mod taking part in the discussion here is Steve and I think most people would agree that he's far from egotistical.

So, where in this thread has a Mod's ego come into play? Or can we just assume that there's no real case of it happening and you're making an allegation with no real basis for making it?

War Machine 539

Stonewalling, erasion of relevent posts based on difference of opinion? If you dont think thats unfair, you dont deserve your position period.

Lemming

War Machine 539 wrote: »

Stonewalling, erasion of relevent posts based on difference of opinion? If you dont think thats unfair, you dont deserve your position period.

Relevant posts? Relevant to what might I ask? And who is stonewalling you personally WM?

Poccington

War Machine 539 wrote: »

Stonewalling, erasion of relevent posts based on difference of opinion? If you dont think thats unfair, you dont deserve your position period.

I'm gonna assume you're referring to Gerrowadat's ban.

How is discussing the reasons behind his banning in anyway relevant to this thread? There's seperate channels for Gerrowadat to go down, if he wishes to appeal his ban. In fact, one look over at the Help Desk area show's he's already began heading down that route.

This thread is for feedback on helping to fix the problems in the forum, not to discuss someone's ban. As Steve has already explained, there's avenues to go down and this thread isn't one of them. Not to mention the fact that Steve wasn't even the one that implemented the ban.

Asking people to use the proper channels is quite fair, IMO.

War Machine 539

This is the point, what makes your opinion better than mine? This thread was setup regarding feedback and its been sensored. Its pathetic. Im not going to continue with this discussion, not because what Im saying is unfounded I might add, but because, you as a moderator have a nice little gang around you to step in if it all goes pear shaped for you. You have all the cards. That point no matter how hard you deny it is true. No point in fighting a losing battle. Im going to bide my time on this one!

I hope you manage to fix this lads, honestly I do. See you on the fields.

swiftblade

War Machine 539 wrote: »

This is the point, what makes your opinion better than mine? This thread was setup regarding feedback and its been sensored. Its pathetic. Im not going to continue with this discussion, not because what Im saying is unfounded I might add, but because, you as a moderator have a nice little gang around you to step in if it all goes pear shaped for you. You have all the cards. That point no matter how hard you deny it is true. No point in fighting a losing battle. Im going to bide my time on this one!

I hope you manage to fix this lads, honestly I do. See you on the fields.

He has nothing to do with the Airsoft forum. He's impartial, and frankly he raises a valid point.

War Machine 539

Just because it fits the Charter doesnt make it right. Impartiality is something that does not exist on Boards.

defenderdude

Blay wrote: »

snip>
Speaking only for myself here but back at the start I said I had nothing against the mods as users just the way they're going about it, that hasnt changed, if at the end of this they were still here and said "right we'll go with these changes" I wouldn't mind.

I don't appreciate it being insinuated that everyone complaining here is out for the heads of the current moderators because I for one am not.

Agreed.

In fairness; who in their right mind would be a mod here now.

Fecked if ya do - Fecked if ya dont...

Has to be the most thankless, unrewarding and difficult jobs ever.

Fair play to those who at least "try".

It really, really saddens me to see so much vitriol and revilement within our small (and once wonderful) community.:(:(:(

None of us are perfect - can we not cut each other a bit of slack.
Please.

War Machine 539

I would love to hash this out over a few pints! Hmmm pints!

defenderdude

War Machine 539 wrote: »

I would love to hash this out over a few pints! Hmmm pints!

This is the best suggestion yet.
:):):):):):):):):):):):):):)

Vents

The charter is what guides the forum along. As was said before, when people start to push the boundaries of the charter, the mods get swamped by complaints and need to clamp down. The charter is not so strict that it restricts open discussion or free information transfer. What it does do is help stop the forum from slipping into a quagmire of nonsense produced by thread spoiling and the such. Are the mods restricting certain people from speaking their mind? Not to my mind. Not when it comes to airsoft related subjects that don't contradict the prime directives.......(Robocop reference). Anything not airsoft related you want to talk about.....get a blog.

My 2 cents

Paddy The Pirate

This is the first time I've posted here in this thread. I don't really know sites like Boards myself, but in the few months i've had here I hope i've picked up the general gist of the place. The main thing I notice (this is only my opinion) is that when I started with boards I was happy to come on every once a while, check out the different sub-forums, have a look through adverts and in gerneral just have a good time. I enjoeyd the new experience, and the general community spirit there seemed to be in the airsoft forum...

But, now (I might be wrong) that feels like in some ways it has gone a bit. I find myself just getting annoyed reading through all of this stuff. I can see how it may be necessary in some ways to sort some things out, but like some poeple have said, It seems like there were slight (maybe easily implanted) changes to be made, I can understand some of the points people make and made about thread locking and the such, but it doesn't seem like the problems need such massive uproar. Like the mods have to be treated as if they are ''The Enemy''...

I'm sorry if this isn't making much sense, I'm really tired but the thing is, i feel passionately about airsoft, over the last few months it has become one of my favourite pastimes, and as such i find that i feel like this Airsoft forum on Boards is important for airsoft, if this was closed down at midnight tonight, suddenly airsoft in Ireland would lose a lot, the Adverts section, where i bought my first gun and a few other things. And so on...

I'm mostly talking about the stuff that started this debate in the first place weeks ago, not the bans and everything that have happened in the last few days, I just have to say that i would HATE to see this forum tear itself to pieces. It seems to me, (and I'm trying to be as objective as possible) that there seems to be a bit of confusion with the ''everyone wants the mods out'' sort of thing, I'm not really reffering to any particular post or poster with that, but i feel like that's what's happening in some ways, I know for certain that I wouldn't see any reason really for any current mods to step down, only if we could be civil, and find a simple way of saying ''okay, lets do 1. 2. and 3. and that'll fix it'' i don't really know what those things are yet, but i really hope we can find them, and keep this brilliant, brilliant community going.

So, sorry if i've bored or confused you, just wanted to add my opinion.

Ronan

P.S I do realise that like with many things, it can't be a quick proccess, but maybe, if people tried to work together more, could it be slightly less of a painful one?

And Sorry if i have offended anyone with my post, that's not my intention in anyone