Speed cameras in Ireland - a guide

DanWall

I got done for 10kph which is only 6 mph, as said many times you can spend all your time looking at the speedo or let it drift up and down a bit. The average system is much better

DanWall

I got done for 10kph which is only 6 mph, as said many times you can spend all your time looking at the speedo or let it drift up and down a bit. The average system is much better. My first offence in 20 yr

ironclaw

DanWall wrote: »

I got done for 10kph which is only 6 mph, as said many times you can spend all your time looking at the speedo or let it drift up and down a bit. The average system is much better

10km/h over? You do realise your speedo was probably reading anywhere between 5 and 10% over? If you were caught doing a true speed of 70km/h in a 60km/h, hence over the limit by a true 10km/h, your speedo would have been reading a minimum of around 75km/h. Thats not a drift, thats a massive gap. If you can't keep your speed with 5km/h of a limit, then there is something seriously up with your driving technique.

Also, if you were averaged at 70km/h true speed, your still speeding. 'Averaging' doesn't work in your favour if you are still speeding

The M50 is about 45km long. If you did 160km/h from start to finish, it would take you about 16 minutes. At 100km/h, it would take you about 27 minutes. If you wanted to do 160km/h on the M50, and beat an average speed camera (Assuming one at the start and one at the very end) you'd have to pull in and STOP for a full 10 mins just before the end.

aka: Absolutely no point.

Also ties in nicely to those who insist on doing 120km/h+ on the M50 100km/h sections. For the sake of 2 points and €80, your saving about 5 mins. Doesn't seem worth it to me to be honest.

DanWall

Well done. Slap on the wrist for me. As it was I was doing 60 in a 50 and I don't live anywhere near the M50, I do not know the exact spot but they do this coming into a derestriction from 60 to 50

blusey35

I'm wondering wether if I was caught speeding as the doors were open on the speed van and the operator was outside measuring how far in off the road he was can anyone be able to she'd some light on this matter

Thank you

ironclaw

blusey35 wrote: »

I'm wondering wether if I was caught speeding as the doors were open on the speed van and the operator was outside measuring how far in off the road he was can anyone be able to she'd some light on this matter

Thank you

Answered your own question. He was calibrating the system.

Mr Keek

Can video evidence from the on board, front windscreen dash cam(Not the speed cam) of a GO SAFE van whiles being driven, be given to the Guards for later prosecution?

I watched some clown speed past a Go Safe van this morning(dual carriageway, both vehicles were moving in full motion), and after he overtook the van. He made a dodgy maneuver; the driver went to change lanes in front of the van, but the car up ahead changed before him, so he suddenly change back to his origonal lane.

From what I could judge, he was obeying the limit while he was behind the van, and as soon as he would out of the way from the camera, he booted it.

As I was behind the guy, I saw the speed van driver take his reg from the other lane, and he was taking notes when they were both stopped at traffic lights. The speed van guy tried to gain the drivers attention, but your man never responded and looked like he ignored him; he didn't roll down his window anyway.

Your man deserves a Darwin award, talk about tempting fate!

ironclaw

Mr Keek wrote: »

Can video evidence from the on board, front windscreen dash cam(Not the speed cam) of a GO SAFE van whiles being driven, be given to the Guards for later prosecution?

I watched some clown speed past a Go Safe van this morning(dual carriageway, both vehicles were moving in full motion), and after he overtook the van. He made a dodgy maneuver; the driver went to change lanes in front of the van, but the car up ahead changed before him, so he suddenly change back to his origonal lane.

From what I could judge, he was obeying the limit while he was behind the van, and as soon as he would out of the way from the camera, he booted it.

As I was behind the guy, I saw the speed van driver take his reg from the other lane, and he was taking notes when they were both stopped at traffic lights. The speed van guy tried to gain the drivers attention, but your man never responded and looked like he ignored him; he didn't roll down his window anyway.

Your man deserves a Darwin award, talk about tempting fate!

Whilst in motion, a GoSafe van is like any other motorists, they are entitled to make complaints to the relevant authorities. Their DVR / CCTV systems could be shown to the Gardai but would carry no more weight than you or me in court, it would be up to the courts to decide if admissible.

For the record, GoSafe DO NOT operate while in motion. They DO NOT measure, record or capture speed offences while in motion.

chriso1969

I got caught speeding doing 80klms in a 50 klm zone..i know I was wrong but I had a medical emergency and needed to use a toilet..however the speed camera was facing the opposite direction and the other side of the road and took a photo of my back reg plate. I spoke to a serving guard who told me the speed camera has to be facing a oncoming car to check the speed I was going.Is this true? also the speed camera van was black and not visible to the eye? does anybody know if this is true?

ironclaw

chriso1969 wrote: »

I got caught speeding doing 80klms in a 50 klm zone..i know I was wrong but I had a medical emergency and needed to use a toilet..however the speed camera was facing the opposite direction and the other side of the road and took a photo of my back reg plate. I spoke to a serving guard who told me the speed camera has to be facing a oncoming car to check the speed I was going.Is this true? also the speed camera van was black and not visible to the eye? does anybody know if this is true?

Garda is completely wrong first of all.

On a standard two lane road, a speed camera van can measure speed of a car coming towards or going away from the rear of the van only. So they will either capture your front or rear reg plate.

Exception to that rule would be if two cars passed at exactly the same time facing in opposite directions. Then its null. There can only be one car and one car only in each photo.

Speed camera vans can be any color. They have been spotted in white, red, green, dark brown and black. The difference is, a GoSafe van to be operating and issuing fines, must be marked up accordingly (i.e. Big reflective signs, Camera logos etc) and in a GoSafe zone whilst a Garda van can be completely unmarked and appear on any road.

Are you sure it was a speed camera van? Because unless it had clear markings, it sounds like a GoSafe monitoring van which does not issue fines.

If you had a genuine medical emergency and could prove it, I'd go before a judge before taking the points. Best of luck.

usher1890

Hi

I was driving into Monasterevin today, the speed van can be parked on the road into it at least 400/600m down from a bend. I was doing about 100kph in the 80kph zone, but the second I came round the bend and seen the van I slowed down to 70kph, and maintained this speed (just to note about 4 cars passed the van down the road when I seen it).

As I approached the van (not sure on distance but very close) it flashed twice with a small gap int between, but at the same time two cars passed on the other side of the road.

Is it possible I was caught? If it was the two cars coming from the other side the flash seemed very quick, so is it possible that the flash would go off withing a second or two.

ironclaw

usher1890 wrote: »

Hi

I was driving into Monasterevin today, the speed van can be parked on the road into it at least 400/600m down from a bend. I was doing about 100kph in the 80kph zone, but the second I came round the bend and seen the van I slowed down to 70kph, and maintained this speed (just to note about 4 cars passed the van down the road when I seen it).

As I approached the van (not sure on distance but very close) it flashed twice with a small gap int between, but at the same time two cars passed on the other side of the road.

Is it possible I was caught? If it was the two cars coming from the other side the flash seemed very quick, so is it possible that the flash would go off withing a second or two.

If there was enough distance between you and the van for four cars to pass it, and by the time you had no cars in front of you and you were below the speed limit, then you are fine.

usher1890

ironclaw wrote: »

If there was enough distance between you and the van for four cars to pass it, and by the time you had no cars in front of you and you were below the speed limit, then you are fine.

Thanks, any reason why the camera flashed twice? If it was the two cars coming from the other side it seemed too quick to catch them, and to be honest they didn't appear to be speeding and would have to be blind not to see it!

usher1890

Just wondering if you were to get a fine, how long would it be before you get it?

ironclaw

usher1890 wrote: »

Thanks, any reason why the camera flashed twice? If it was the two cars coming from the other side it seemed too quick to catch them, and to be honest they didn't appear to be speeding and would have to be blind not to see it!

GoSafe uses infrared flash. You cannot see it. Some Garda vans do still however have a white, visible flash. However, there was talk of an amber flash coming from the vans recently. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me and until I see one, I can't confirm it other than hearsay. My guess is either reflection of headlights or a warning system for motorists (Contary to popular belief the vans are not all that reflective and there has been rumours of 'near misses') However, that said, all cars are photographed. Only those speeding (Apparently) are stored.

usher1890 wrote: »

Just wondering if you were to get a fine, how long would it be before you get it?

They are pretty efficient. Think anywhere between a week and month.

usher1890

ironclaw wrote: »

GoSafe uses infrared flash. You cannot see it. Some Garda vans do still however have a white, visible flash. However, there was talk of an amber flash coming from the vans recently. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me and until I see one, I can't confirm it other than hearsay. My guess is either reflection of headlights or a warning system for motorists (Contary to popular belief the vans are not all that reflective and there has been rumours of 'near misses') However, that said, all cars are photographed. Only those speeding (Apparently) are stored.



They are pretty efficient. Think anywhere between a week and month.

Thanks, it was definitely a go-safe van, and at the top of the system there seems to be a round lens at the top, that is where I seen the flashes. I'm nearly certain it was no reflective flash. Out of interest I used google maps today to calculate the distance and it said 750m, but me being paranoid I worked it out this morning speed x time and it works out at 600m. Surely with what you have said re: 300m this puts me in the clear?

Lardy

The little round camera on the top is CCTV. It doesn't flash at all. It will have a red glow at night though as it uses infrared.

ironclaw

usher1890 wrote: »

Thanks, it was definitely a go-safe van, and at the top of the system there seems to be a round lens at the top, that is where I seen the flashes. I'm nearly certain it was no reflective flash. Out of interest I used google maps today to calculate the distance and it said 750m, but me being paranoid I worked it out this morning speed x time and it works out at 600m. Surely with what you have said re: 300m this puts me in the clear?

Well, if you are looking straight down a queue of people, and you want to see the fourth person in the queue, how hard is it to see that person? You said there were 3 cars in front of you, between you and the van. Think about it

Either way, as a rule of thumb, a van can only measure the speed of a car roughly twice the width of an average road away, and thats if its clear. If you are speeding, that close to a van, you deserve to be caught as rarely you'll have that little time to slow down (Not that you should be speeding anyway in these zones or anywhere)

cabledude

ironclaw wrote: »

Accuracy apparently is +/- 1.5km/h. At a minimum, its +/- 3km/h. At least that was the old spec I read.

But look at it this way, your car speedo is normally over reading by between 5 to 10%. So at 60km/h on your speedo, your probably doing anywhere between 57km/h and 54km/h in reality.

So, if a camera snaps you at 62km/h, your speedo will be (most likely) reading higher than 65km/h. So you know you are speeding. You know you are well over.

Anyway, Irish law states there is no requirement for the unit to be calibrated or for them to prove the unit is accurate or even in full working order.

That is shocking. I did not know that. Why would the Go Safe vans need to calibrate their machinery when the Gardai do not.

What is the story in other jurisdictions?

ironclaw

cabledude wrote: »

That is shocking. I did not know that. Why would the Go Safe vans need to calibrate their machinery when the Gardai do not.

What is the story in other jurisdictions?

Legally, they don't have to calibrate them. There is no onus, on them or the Gardai, to even prove the equipment is in fully functional working order. A scandal. But unfortunately to fight that you'd need to go pretty high in the court system as you would be fighting on a point of law. Also, I'd imagine if the law was changed, you would have to refund a good few speeding tickets retrospectively :pac:

GoSafe, and I'm pretty sure the Garda vans, do have a quick 'set up' process before they can begin capture. Its basically a distance measurement to take into account the angle they are at, placement, height about roadway etc. But its not to be mistaken for calibration.

Iwannahurl

I'd say there are more than a few motorists who get terribly vexed about the calibration of speed cameras yet at the same time are not very attentive to what their own speedometer is telling them.

If we motorists adhere to the posted limit, drive at a speed appropriate for the conditions and pay attention to our driving, the calibration of GoSafe and Garda equipment becomes pretty much irrelevant.

cabledude

Iwannahurl wrote: »

I'd say there are more than a few motorists who get terribly vexed about the calibration of speed cameras yet at the same time are not very attentive to what their own speedometer is telling them.

If we motorists adhere to the posted limit, drive at a speed appropriate for the conditions and pay attention to our driving, the calibration of GoSafe and Garda equipment becomes pretty much irrelevant.

When those same people receive fines and points on their licences, are they not entitled to ascertain whether the device used to catch them is operating correctly. Thats not a lot to ask.

ironclaw

Iwannahurl wrote: »

I'd say there are more than a few motorists who get terribly vexed about the calibration of speed cameras yet at the same time are not very attentive to what their own speedometer is telling them.

If we motorists adhere to the posted limit, drive at a speed appropriate for the conditions and pay attention to our driving, the calibration of GoSafe and Garda equipment becomes pretty much irrelevant.

By the way the law is, there is nothing me stopping from flashing the firmware of the camera system to add 10km/h to every car that passes. So it doesn't matter how attentive I am. If I pass at 59km/h in a 60km/h zone (Pretty safe going on where they normally are :rolleyes:) I'll be charged (wrongly) for it. Thats unjust.

Frankly, its lunacy. And even if the firmware was perfect, whats to say the system is perfectly set up? When was it last benchmarked and verified? Who did it? Joe soap or an actual qualified engineer?

Its the same as saying 'Well, its a murder trial and all but we never cleaned the DNA analysis machine before hand but that doesn't matter' No. You need to show due process was followed and the machine was in perfect working order before the test was carried out.

Put it another way, how miffed would one be if the NCT emissions machine wasn't calibrated as scheduled? And you failed because of it?

I'm sorry, but its not 'irrelevant' If you want to charge someone with an offence under the law, you better show a clear, challengeable and unambiguous chain of evidence. To accept a machine, especially an electronic one as infallible, is nonsense.

I'm not debating speeding or the act of speeding. I'm debating how wrong and unjust it is to accept that a machine (Thats in the rear of a van, in all temperatures, all humidities and driven on Irish roads) is in perfect working order and it cannot be challenged in court.

Iwannahurl

cabledude wrote: »

When those same people receive fines and points on their licences, are they not entitled to ascertain whether the device used to catch them is operating correctly. Thats not a lot to ask.

ironclaw wrote: »

By the way the law is, there is nothing me stopping from flashing the firmware of the camera system to add 10km/h to every car that passes. ... Thats unjust.

Frankly, its lunacy. And even if the firmware was perfect, whats to say the system is perfectly set up? When was it last benchmarked and verified? Who did it? Joe soap or an actual qualified engineer?

...

I'm sorry, but its not 'irrelevant' If you want to charge someone with an offence under the law, you better show a clear, challengeable and unambiguous chain of evidence. To accept a machine, especially an electronic one as infallible, is nonsense.

I'm subject to precisely the same speed surveillance technology as the people who have received points and fines, yet I have received neither points nor fines. The same goes for the thousands of motorists who have never received a ticket.

Why do you suppose that is?

cabledude

Iwannahurl wrote: »

I'm subject to precisely the same speed surveillance technology as the people who have received points and fines, yet I have received neither points nor fines. The same goes for the thousands of motorists who have never received a ticket.

Why do you suppose that is?

Not the point.

The last time I received a fine was in 2004. Notwithstanding that, I am uncomfortable with the Gardaí using machinery that has not or does not need to be calibrated.

Iwannahurl

cabledude wrote: »

Not the point.

The last time I received a fine was in 2004. Notwithstanding that, I am uncomfortable with the Gardaí using machinery that has not or does not need to be calibrated.

It is the entire point of the system.

For people who don't get points or fines, where's the discomfort?

ironclaw

Iwannahurl wrote: »

It is the entire point of the system.

For people who don't get points or fines, where's the discomfort?

What?

Ok, random breath testing check point. Imagine the equipment didn't have to be calibrated. You weren't drinking however there are tones in your breath that can trigger a positive readings (High and low blood sugar, especially common with diabetes and some other conditions) You get a positive result. Go back to the station. Once again, no calibration required and its as dodgy as hell. Fines, point and ban as a result. Completely unjust.

What if you did get points from a dodgy laser gun? Lens a little askew, timing circuit a shade off from being lugged in and out of the Traffic Corp car etc etc. All probable.

Do you still not have an issue with this equipment being used? Just because it doesn't affect you doesn't mean its unjust.

I have zero issue with someone fair and square getting caught speeding. But I have a serious issue with someone being caught speeding with dodgy equipment. Its literally a case that a Garda can point at a car and say 'You. You were speeding' and there is nothing you can do about it.

cabledude

Iwannahurl wrote: »

It is the entire point of the system.

For people who don't get points or fines, where's the discomfort?

I had no discomfort with it up until today. Then I found out that the law of the land does not require sensitive electronic devices to be calibrated. That is crazy stuff. If you are happy with that situation, fair enough.

I am uncomfortable with it. Justice should be transparent and above board. Having equipment that is not calibrated in use to hand out fines is not above board.

Damien360

cabledude wrote: »

I had no discomfort with it up until today. Then I found out that the law of the land does not require sensitive electronic devices to be calibrated. That is crazy stuff. If you are happy with that situation, fair enough.

I am uncomfortable with it. Justice should be transparent and above board. Having equipment that is not calibrated in use to hand out fines is not above board.

Calibration of equipment is expensive. I have to get work equipment calibrated and it often little more than a certificate. Looking at the data over many years, all of the devices have barely changed their read backs in all that time. This is for a range of equipment like flow meters, thermocouples, pressure meters etc., all electronic.

Devices such as lasers will never change by any significant amount, certainly not measure able amount for you to fail/pass speeding. We are talking less than a kmph and the angle at which the laser is pointed at the car will have more bearing on the result.

The handheld breatyliser is not court admissible evidence as it is just an indicator of alcohol. You are taken to the station one, which is calibrated. That is the court admissible evidence. If you refuse this test, you are deemed to have failed the test, again court evidence. You are arrested on suspicion at the roadside but not charged. Pass the station one and you get a lift back. Fail and you get charged. It is not in the interest of a Garda to use a faulty roadside device.

If a Garda keeps getting fails at the roadside and passes at the station then something is wrong and to save their own time, a reasonable person would get rid of it.

The need to have calibrated roadside devices will open a legal can of worms with every tom, dick and Harry calling his solicitor to check the calibration, wasting time and money.

cabledude

Damien360 wrote: »

The need to have calibrated roadside devices will open a legal can of worms with every tom, dick and Harry calling his solicitor to check the calibration, wasting time and money.

No need to check the calibration. When calibrated, the cal lab will just put a cal sticker on the unit. This is what happens in Industry. No reason why it cannot be done in the context of radar guns.