A Strong Leader/ Dictator

FreudianSlippers

This just in: Eating babies gives you AIDS.

Amhran Nua

ch750536 wrote: »

Point is that TD's are their to represent & debate, not to ignore completely. Somewhere there is a happy balance.

There is, but the system for the allocation of funds to each area of the country needs to take into account the development of the nation as a whole. Its a massively complicated question once you start to divvy up the roles of local and national government, with as many models as there are countries, but as far as Ireland is concerned, we effectively have nobody at the wheel. Another side effect is you have perjurers and dodgy characters not just getting re-elected but setting up their own dynasties within the state (howya Healy Rae).

People should vote for party policies at the national level, not TDs who fixed their pot holes. That way we might see some decent party policies for a change, and some real leadership.

I've never been presented with a ballot sheet that asked me if I wanted to vote FF, FG, or any other party. I've been presented with plenty that offered me a choice between various politicians who have been working as hard as possible to appease their local constituency for the last decade.

sensibleken

Amhran Nua wrote: »

I've been presented with plenty that offered me a choice between various politicians who have been working as hard as possible to appease their local constituency for the last decade.

Appeasing them with our wangs. thatll be the new order

parker kent

De Dannan wrote: »

The dictatorship of Cincinnatus in ancient Rome would be considered a successful one. He took power for a short time, defeated Rome's enemies, then famously returned to his plow, as the Roman dictatorship was supposed to work. He was a great hero of the Roman republic, and a model for George Washington when he was the first President of the United States.

Rome had a position which gave temporary power (normally 6 months) to an individual. So it is not exactly what we would recognise as a dictator. It is somebody brought in during a time of crisis and given extraordinary legal powers. The last dictator was Julius Caesar but he just didn't bother handing back the power....

Rebelheart

th3 s1aught3r wrote: »

Cowen, Kenny, Gilmore
We need a leader who will make the hard decisions that need to be made. None of these party leaders are capable of that imo, they are all too tied up in the public sector/unions and other self-serving organisations of the state. I dont want to see a potential leader of this nation talking to the people through the Late Late show to some over paid entertainer, a leader would be out talking to the people. Not arguing like children in the house of lies that is the Dail
Our model of British parlimentary democracy is not working, maybe we need someone to reorganise our state, so the party politics are wiped from the landscape

Have you been reading The Prince by Machiavelli?

More Irish people could do with reading it. There is a lot of merit in a state having a strong leader to guide it through turbulent times, no matter what any poster here might say to the contrary.

"Democracy" doesn't necessarily entail the likes of Jackie Healy-Rea holding the government of the day hostage to his latest project in the arsehole of nowhere. That is the democratic system which Ireland has adopted for itself (or rather the PR-STV voting system which the British insisted we have under the GofI Act 1920). There are many ways to have a democratic system without gobdaws like the above holding the 83% of the country which is free to ransom. Bi-cameralism is also not necessary - the existence of Seanad Éireann does more to undermine Irish democracy than most things. It, like so many other features of our "democracy", has much more to do with "jobs for the boys" than democracy.

AckwelFoley

OisinT wrote: »

This just in: Eating babies gives you AIDS.

Not if you boil them first

Mr Benevolent

You need me, Ireland.

- All political/civil servant/banking/media/regulatory figures legally proven to have significantly contributed to the downfall of the economy to be stripped of all assets and exiled to Montserrat.

- All civil services functions to be radically overhauled and have independent overseers.

- All governments decisions to be completely transparent.

- Swiss style democracy installed, with citizens able to call referenda to challenge any law at any time.

Micky Dolenz

sensibleken wrote: »

by the way. has anyone seen the tags on this thread.

They ain't funny.
removed.

RockinRolla

I think we need to incorporate many ideas of government into our system. For example, we need more local politics. Each provence of the country should have its own government building and report directly to the President - giving the President more power, but not absolute. In turn, the President would have a tribunal overlooking his-her policies etc. This way, it wouldnt be so centred around Dublin.

Mr Benevolent

RockinRolla wrote: »

I think we need to incorporate many ideas of government into our system. For example, we need more local politics. Each provence of the country should have its own government building and report directly to the President - giving the President more power, but not absolute. In turn, the President would have a tribunal overlooking his-her policies etc. This way, it wouldnt be so centred around Dublin.

That's a federal government.The Swiss have it and it seems to work.

omg a kitty

Yes, Lets take a min to remember all the wonderful past dictators who couldn't be with us for mortal reasons.. >.>
Adolf Hitler - Only killed 15million people(that had nothing to do with WWII)
Benito Mussolini - Killed all his political opponents...why didnt anyone else think of that?
Joseph Stalin - What a man..killed over 50million people and got away with it.

I'm surprised you're suggesting this.

FreudianSlippers

Stalin: killed 3 times as many people as Hilter and somehow managed to spin it so that Hitler seemed worse.

sheesh

so you want to replace the current system where FF got in nearly every election. to a system where no matter how bad the leader is we cannot get rid of them.......

I fail to see how this is an improvement :mad:

We definitely need a new system of government one half to create law and manage government departments the other to manage more local concerns.

we probably need a raft of new legislation on white collar crime

in fact I think we need a new constitution.

Hande hoche!

OisinT wrote: »

Stalin: killed 3 times as many people as Hilter and somehow managed to spin it so that Hitler seemed worse.

To be fair Stalin had a fuller,healthier mustache.

sheesh

OisinT wrote: »

Stalin: killed 3 times as many people as Hilter and somehow managed to spin it so that Hitler seemed worse.

Didn't you know everybody who won WW2 got a get out of war crimes jail free card.

:pac:

th3 s1aught3r

sheesh wrote: »

Didn't you know everybody who won WW2 got a get out of war crimes jail free card.

:pac:

History they say, is written by the victor

K-9

Come back Ray McSharry, all is forgiven.

Killer Pigeon

It's not too late yet to start a new Irish National Front Party. I'd say it would gather a lot of pace in times like these, the recession isn't over yet comrades.

ch750536

Amhran Nua wrote: »

People should vote for party policies at the national level, not TDs who fixed their pot holes. That way we might see some decent party policies for a change, and some real leadership.

Yeah, tell that to the people who voted lib dem. Politicians want power, a better tomorrow for them. Policies change very quickly if it means they get more power.

Amhran Nua wrote: »

I've never been presented with a ballot sheet that asked me if I wanted to vote FF, FG, or any other party.

Exactly my point, so why is it that you have voted for one of them? Why is it that your vote becomes pointless as the whip is cracked?

Amhran Nua wrote: »

I've been presented with plenty that offered me a choice between various politicians who have been working as hard as possible to appease their local constituency for the last decade.

Bull. Where do you live, lets take a look at your wonderful options at the last election.

TD's have far more in common with TD's than average Joe. Who are they gonna look after?

Capt'n Midnight

The nearest thing we had to a dictator was deValera

still a controversial figure for some and a lot of his legacy don't look so good anymore
while he may not have started the civil war, he could probably have prevented it

L.Jenkins

Not having read the entire thread, in a way a dictator would be a good idea, if sufficent guidelines were set to retain democracy so we don't become another burma.

We need someone who'll give all these unions and whinging bankers the beat down, sort shít out and get things back on track. We need a person who's prepared to tell people do or die in the none evil, drag you out of your home in the middle of the night and shoot you kind of way.

Such guidelines for a dictatorship could include, a general election every 2 to 4 years, targets to be set to get Ireland back into productivity and growth, then when targets have been met, dismanteling of said dictatorship and a return to similar style of government we have today.

On a side note, such a dictator should have a vested interest in a highly prosperus state and have to come to the realisation that growth and a higly productive state would benefit everyone, and not just themselves.

sheesh

Actually we had a strong leader recently, he was popular had his party behind him did great work in the north and was taoiseach for 3 terms. his name was bertie ahern.:D

L.Jenkins

sheesh wrote: »

Actually we had a strong leader recently, he was popular had his party behind him did great work in the north and was taoiseach for 3 terms. his name was bertie ahern.:D

Yeah, but from how people I know describe him, he's the gone done in history as the next Charlie McCrevey.

Holden Caulfield

A modernised Roman Empire structure would not only re-energise and recreate the country but give a true sense of civilisation to the majority of fools living in Ireland at the moment.

sensibleken

ItsThatManAgain wrote: »

Not having read the entire thread, in a way a dictator would be a good idea, if sufficent guidelines were set to retain democracy so we don't become another burma.
.

a dictatorship with guidelines to retain democracy? is there a dictionary forum?

Capt'n Midnight

ItsThatManAgain wrote: »

Not having read the entire thread, in a way a dictator would be a good idea, if sufficent guidelines were set to retain democracy so we don't become another burma.

If you look through recorded history you will see most such schemes where ultimate power was handed to an individual had all sorts of checks and bounds. Sulla ( who stepped down in 81 BC ) is the only case I know of where any of them handed the power back without being forced to.

History is important, those gobshítés running our country didn't even learn form the events that happened in their lifetime in this country, nevermind all of the well known unsubstainable bubbles and markets in others.

De Dannan

The most worrying thing is that the Irish people have proven themselves to be so apathetic that a dictator would not have much trouble taking over the country in the first place.
All they would face is a flood of calls to Joe Duffy and a load of angry posts on boards :rolleyes:

th3 s1aught3r

As the situation deteriorates the need for a leader grows ever stronger

Proposals (early ideas)

1. Outlawing Fianna Fail
2. Decrease our reliance on multinationals, If we can create Irish companies this is much better in the long term. If your economy relies on multinationals you are in constant fear of the day they will pull out
3. A return to the land, family values and getting rid of our consumer culture, we are not a people whose only interest in money, are we ?
4. All professional fees be cut by 50%. How many mercs do these guys need ?
5. Special elite wing of the army be created to deal with drug lords and no go areas. Civil liberties will be suspended while these troops clean out the scum drug lords, particulary in Limerick and Dublin
5. New flag , green with a harp.
6. Ultimatley we will leave the EU. Thanks for everything but we want a seperate nation state, a nation,not just an economy

knock away

Pherekydes

th3 s1aught3r wrote: »

3. A return to the land, family values and getting rid of our consumer culture...?

5. Civil liberties will be suspended...

A great collectivisation and a suspension of civil liberties. Who'd have thunk?

Jazzy

well if anakin skywalker said it