Ireland in Preliminary Bailout Talks

ligertigon

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Nail on head.

We're just about to pay for the banks in Irish sovereignty.

See my previous post on .... how

brianthebard

amacachi wrote: »

I think their huge levels of natural resources explain most of that tbh.

That's very true. But regardless of resources its fair to say that bankruptcy had a huge impact on the lower classes of both countries and had fairly wide ranging implications for the societies as a whole.

amacachi

brianthebard wrote: »

That's very true. But regardless of resources its fair to say that bankruptcy had a huge impact on the lower classes of both countries and had fairly wide ranging implications for the societies as a whole.

Ah I dunno what to say, about 6 or 7 posts on any of these threads is about all I can manage before I get too frustrated to go on. :pac: Just such a fcuking disaster from start to finish. Sigh.

Cavehill Red

amacachi wrote: »

I'm not in favour of any bail-out, just pointing out that a lot of people seem to be against cuts or tax increases without offering realistic alternatives.

I just offered one. Amputate the gangrenous banks from the Irish exchequer.

We've done austerity like no other country in recent times and there's much more to come.

Yet the markets remain singularly unconvinced that we can put our finances in order, and this is because they suspect the bank black hole will just keep growing and growing until we can no longer pay for it and the running of the state.

Cuts are coming (again) and the public accept this and the political parties accept this (though they differ in implementation).

But cuts won't be enough to stop the banks taking us out because they're toxic beyond belief. They need to be cut loose, with deposits only guaranteed. Do that, and a 60 billion liability vanishes from the state's books immediately.

amacachi

Cavehill Red wrote: »

I just offered one. Amputate the gangrenous banks from the Irish exchequer.

We've done austerity like no other country in recent times and there's much more to come.

Yet the markets remain singularly unconvinced that we can put our finances in order, and this is because they suspect the bank black hole will just keep growing and growing until we can no longer pay for it and the running of the state.

Cuts are coming (again) and the public accept this and the political parties accept this (though they differ in implementation).

But cuts won't be enough to stop the banks taking us out because they're toxic beyond belief. They need to be cut loose, with deposits only guaranteed. Do that, and a 60 billion liability vanishes from the state's books immediately.

An overnight cut of over 30% of government spending probably wouldn't get too much support, as much as I'd tend to be in favour of letting private losses happen.

ligertigon

There is a solution.

Put Ire up for auction, the people decide the terms.

eg, how much is some scabby island worth off the west coast to Russia?
for some radars/ nuke silos etc???

And how much is it worth to the yanks because of that??

lateral thinking folks

Cavehill Red

amacachi wrote: »

An overnight cut of over 30% of government spending probably wouldn't get too much support, as much as I'd tend to be in favour of letting private losses happen.

An overnight cut of 30% wouldn't be needed if we didn't have a massive banking liability that's not rightly our debt on our books thanks to that buffoon Lenihan and his 'cheapest bank bailout ever'.

OPENROAD

Cavehill Red wrote: »

I just offered one. Amputate the gangrenous banks from the Irish exchequer.

We've done austerity like no other country in recent times and there's much more to come.

Yet the markets remain singularly unconvinced that we can put our finances in order, and this is because they suspect the bank black hole will just keep growing and growing until we can no longer pay for it and the running of the state.

Cuts are coming (again) and the public accept this and the political parties accept this (though they differ in implementation).

But cuts won't be enough to stop the banks taking us out because they're toxic beyond belief. They need to be cut loose, with deposits only guaranteed. Do that, and a 60 billion liability vanishes from the state's books immediately.

If its that easy why is no political party advocating this? Genuine question

jimmycrackcorm

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Nail on head.

We're just about to pay for the banks in Irish sovereignty.

If you want to make that point then can you back it up by telling us how the Greek sovereignty has been affected?

brianthebard

OPENROAD wrote: »

If its that easy why is no political party advocating this? Genuine question

Pretty sure Labour and Sinn Fein have, and FG have a variation on the same theme afaik.

Cavehill Red

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

If you want to make that point then can you back it up by telling us how the Greek sovereignty has been affected?

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-05-02/greece-to-cut-spending-raise-taxes-as-part-of-eu-imf-package-summary.html

amacachi

Cavehill Red wrote: »

An overnight cut of 30% wouldn't be needed if we didn't have a massive banking liability that's not rightly our debt on our books thanks to that buffoon Lenihan and his 'cheapest bank bailout ever'.

Ah right, you mean letting the banks go so we can keep borrowing to keep up our other spending?

amacachi

brianthebard wrote: »

Pretty sure Labour and Sinn Fein have, and FG have a variation on the same theme afaik.

See how quickly they'd change their minds having won an election and the EU having a quick word with them. :pac:

epgc3fyqirnbsx

My main concern is that a few weeks back Ollie Rehn suggested that it would not be possible for Ireland to maintain its low corporation tax.
Now it's not possible for anyone to demand we change our tax rates, by all treaties it is officially a sovereign matter, but the pressure applied may be enormous and our MNE's have already stated that a rise in the tax would undoubtedly lead to them finding elsewhere to set up

Like it or not, we are relying on these MNE's for the next few years at least, and corporation tax accounts for up to 20% of receipts so if this is increased, for whatever reason, we are in big trouble

All the rest we can deal with, we just really can't deal with losing more jobs. It's down to whatever government we have standing their ground and refusing to adjust corp tax if (when) asked to do so

OPENROAD

brianthebard wrote: »

Pretty sure Labour and Sinn Fein have, and FG have a variation on the same theme afaik.

I am open to correction here but from my understanding that is not the case, rather they would let those who lent more risky ones go but only those.

ligertigon

OPENROAD wrote: »

You don't live in Ireland?

I do why you ask?

Cavehill Red

amacachi wrote: »

Ah right, you mean letting the banks go so we can keep borrowing to keep up our other spending?

In principle, yes. It's not the debt of the Irish people but of banks based in Ireland. Therefore it's not the responsibility of the Irish people to guarantee those debts.

brianthebard

amacachi wrote: »

See how quickly they'd change their minds having won an election and the EU having a quick word with them. :pac:

If we got as far as an election without a bailout I don't think they would have too much direct pressure to fear from the EU. who knows tohugh.

skelliser

Just remember guys in the polling both in the upcoming election the party that has lead us to this point.

Actually pause and think a little before you make your mark.

Reflect on 13 years of
arrogance,
hypocracy,
unvouched expenses,
"dig outs",
misdirection,
no tax clearance certs,
self-entitlement,
golden circles,
chauffer driven mercedes benz's,
gov. jets,
2 referenda repeated TWICE,
carbon tax,
48+ hours on a trolley,
private hospitals,
m50 toll bridge,
fishing industry destroyed,
400m euro on contaimiated glass bottle factory,
450,000 people on the dole,
the "cheapest bank bailout" turning out to be the worst bailout i the history of the modern world!
the list goes on....


and now the final nail, needing to be bailed out!


The legacy of Fianna Fail

OPENROAD

ligertigon wrote: »

I do why you ask?

Your post suggested you didn't

brianthebard

OPENROAD wrote: »

I am open to correction here but from my understanding that is not the case, rather they would let those who lent more risky ones go but only those.

but how is that different to what cavehill red was saying? obviously any bank still in good health would and should be left to its own devices.

Cavehill Red

brianthebard wrote: »

If we got as far as an election without a bailout I don't think they would have too much direct pressure to fear from the EU. who knows tohugh.

This might be an upside for Fianna Fail actually. They get fecked out and then sit on the sidelines pointing fingers at others forced to concede sovereignty in payment for their policies.

istr that when the last British general election was over the new chancellor of the exchequer went to his new office, he found a memo form the previous chancellor saying something like " sorry all the money's gone!

amacachi

Cavehill Red wrote: »

This might be an upside for Fianna Fail actually. They get fecked out and then sit on the sidelines pointing fingers at others forced to concede sovereignty in payment for their policies.

Sure have ya heard some of the statements they've made lately along the lines of getting the party and the country through this mess, in that order.

galwayrush

Cavehill Red wrote: »

This might be an upside for Fianna Fail actually. They get fecked out and then sit on the sidelines pointing fingers at others forced to concede sovereignty in payment for their policies.

Their masterplan failed..:rolleyes:

amacachi

Deleted User wrote: »

istr that when the last British general election was over the new chancellor of the exchequer went to his new office, he found a memo form the previous chancellor saying something like " sorry all the money's gone!

Dunno about the last one but in the 70s I think it was one of them left a note saying "Sorry about the mess" and it wasn't the office he was referring to. :pac:

brianthebard

Cavehill Red wrote: »

This might be an upside for Fianna Fail actually. They get fecked out and then sit on the sidelines pointing fingers at others forced to concede sovereignty in payment for their policies.

Its definitely a possibility, as is FF blaming everything on the pd's and greens like they did in the last election. However the sustained poor polling rates for FF suggest the electorate may not let them off as easily as they have in the past. Only time can tell I guess.

ligertigon

OPENROAD wrote: »

Your post suggested you didn't

You being facetious?

amacachi

brianthebard wrote: »

Its definitely a possibility, as is FF blaming everything on the pd's and greens like they did in the last election. However the sustained poor polling rates for FF suggest the electorate may not let them off as easily as they have in the past. Only time can tell I guess.

They'll bounce back though. Dermot Ahern will most likely still top the poll here next time despite not attending meetings to save the hospital in Dundalk (not something that's particularly close to my heart but does seem to matter to a lot of others) and generally being a prick. He's done very little for the area and is just a ladder climber. I don't like parochial politics but at least there's a twisted logic for voting for JHR and the like, I cannot see why anyone would ever vote for Dermot Ahern.

Cavehill Red

amacachi wrote: »

Dunno about the last one but in the 70s I think it was one of them left a note saying "Sorry about the mess" and it wasn't the office he was referring to. :pac:

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/economics/article7128665.ece