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Ireland in Preliminary Bailout Talks

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    #92
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Politbureau wrote: »
    Guys,
    I have savings certificates with An Post as part of my pension plan which I have built on over the years. Would it be adviseable for me to withdraw them as I fear all commitments to pay interest (or safeguard the capital sum) my well be off if we have to borrow from the IMF? BBC say tonight that the sum Ireland wishes to borrow is in the 50-80bn mark. Of course it could be much larger and we won't know until they decide to tell us.

    I'm really worried as my partner is permanently disabled and we have to maintain our hard earned and saved finances to see us through tough times ahead. An Post require seven days notice to withdraw. If I dither we could lose everything!

    Can't give financial advice here, but the bank guarantee was given to protect savers.


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    #93
    Ronin247
    Registered Users Posts: 1,256 ✭✭✭Ronin247


    Politbureau wrote: »
    Guys,
    I have savings certificates with An Post as part of my pension plan which I have built on over the years. Would it be adviseable for me to withdraw them as I fear all commitments to pay interest (or safeguard the capital sum) my well be off if we have to borrow from the IMF? BBC say tonight that the sum Ireland wishes to borrow is in the 50-80bn mark. Of course it could be much larger and we won't know until they decide to tell us.

    I'm really worried as my partner is permanently disabled and we have to maintain our hard earned and saved finances to see us through tough times ahead. An Post require seven days notice to withdraw. If I dither we could lose everything!

    Not wishing to be rude but AH is the last place one should go for serious financial advice.Someone will run a poll and atari jaguar will be the correct course of action.


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    #94
    galwayrush
    Registered Users Posts: 12,815 ✭✭✭✭galwayrush


    Our Government are liars, plain and simple. I no longer believe anything they say.:mad:


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    #95
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Politbureau wrote: »
    Guys,
    I have savings certificates with An Post as part of my pension plan which I have built on over the years. Would it be adviseable for me to withdraw them as I fear all commitments to pay interest (or safeguard the capital sum) my well be off if we have to borrow from the IMF? BBC say tonight that the sum Ireland wishes to borrow is in the 50-80bn mark. Of course it could be much larger and we won't know until they decide to tell us.

    I'm really worried as my partner is permanently disabled and we have to maintain our hard earned and saved finances to see us through tough times ahead. An Post require seven days notice to withdraw. If I dither we could lose everything!

    As far as I know, they should be ok. I amn't aware of that happening in other countries, but I could be wrong.

    The IMF aren't as bad as some make out.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #96
    My name is URL
    Registered Users Posts: 25,067 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    lol @ RTE covering their tracks for possibly being the source of this rumor - http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1113/economy.html
    RTÉ News reported last night that some talks have taken place about how a bailout might happen in a theoretical worst case scenario.

    They just snuck that last bit in


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    #97
    brianthebard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,165 ✭✭✭✭brianthebard


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Can't give financial advice here, but the bank guarantee was given to protect savers.

    While that is the point of the guarantee its really a complete fabrication, if the banks/country goes bankrupt the government won't have the money to fulfill their end of the guarantee.


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    #98
    OPENROAD
    Registered Users Posts: 11,692 ✭✭✭✭OPENROAD


    brianthebard wrote: »
    While that is the point of the guarantee its really a complete fabrication, if the banks/country goes bankrupt the government won't have the money to fulfill their end of the guarantee.

    Does that mean our savings are stuffed :eek: Could this happen?


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    #99
    galwayrush
    Registered Users Posts: 12,815 ✭✭✭✭galwayrush


    OPENROAD wrote: »
    Does that mean our savings are stuffed :eek: Could this happen?

    Yes.


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    #100
    meditraitor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,207 ✭✭✭meditraitor


    My name is URL wrote: »
    lol @ RTE covering their tracks for possibly being the source of this rumor - http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1113/economy.html



    They just snuck that last bit in



    Just seen the last news update.... the presenter looks like he just got out of mountjoy? They had the possibility of talks over the bailout as main story


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    #101
    Cavehill Red
    Registered Users Posts: 6,109 ✭✭✭Cavehill Red


    This is why we need to renege on the guarantee of anything other than deposits.

    Screw Roman Abramovich and the other bondholders. They gambled and lost.


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    #102
    brianthebard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,165 ✭✭✭✭brianthebard


    OPENROAD wrote: »
    Does that mean our savings are stuffed :eek: Could this happen?

    Well an EU/IMF bailout is not going to pay to recapitalise the banks yet again.


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    #103
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,316 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    It could happen. It's a bit like how talk of a run on a bank is what causes a run, they're hoping that "guaranteeing" the savings will keep savings in and keep the banks well capitalised. Though the end of that sentence should tell ya plenty about what's actually happening. :P


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    #104
    Clown Shoes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 38 ✭Clown Shoes


    Politbureau wrote: »
    Guys,
    I have savings certificates with An Post as part of my pension plan which I have built on over the years. Would it be adviseable for me to withdraw them as I fear all commitments to pay interest (or safeguard the capital sum) my well be off if we have to borrow from the IMF? BBC say tonight that the sum Ireland wishes to borrow is in the 50-80bn mark. Of course it could be much larger and we won't know until they decide to tell us.

    I'm really worried as my partner is permanently disabled and we have to maintain our hard earned and saved finances to see us through tough times ahead. An Post require seven days notice to withdraw. If I dither we could lose everything!

    My opinion.

    In the greater scheme of things, it doesn´t really matter right now. If we get funds from the ESF now, we´ll recover to a modest and hopefully stable standard of living. If we wait until the Italians, spanish and portuguese ask for help (and they will), it could be too late. Capital flight will kick in, the big boys will sling their crocks of gold to another end of the rainbow and the plebs will be left with regulations that restrict us to a few crumbs. For example, you might only be allowed access or transfer $1000 a day.

    Bottom line is we are small and can only do so much damage. When one of the big boys goes under, well trading butter for cheese might look quite visionary.


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    #105
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,316 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    Cavehill Red wrote: »
    This is why we need to renege on the guarantee of anything other than deposits.

    Screw Roman Abramovich and the other bondholders. They gambled and lost.

    Doing that would mean savage cuts in spending and tax rises over the next while, something else people seem to be against.


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    #106
    OPENROAD
    Registered Users Posts: 11,692 ✭✭✭✭OPENROAD


    brianthebard wrote: »
    Well an EU/IMF bailout is not going to pay to recapitalise the banks yet again.

    Well many are predicting we could well have a bailout, so in that case are you saying ordinary people will lose savings?


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    #107
    OPENROAD
    Registered Users Posts: 11,692 ✭✭✭✭OPENROAD


    amacachi wrote: »
    Doing that would mean savage cuts in spending and tax rises over the next while, something else people seem to be against.

    Would it also mean that it would be highly likely we would never be able to borrow again?


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    #108
    brianthebard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,165 ✭✭✭✭brianthebard


    OPENROAD wrote: »
    Well many are predicting we could well have a bailout, so in that case are you saying ordinary people will lose savings?

    I don't know for sure. All I know if the banks won't be given a third or fourth chance. What happens after that I have no idea.

    OPENROAD wrote: »
    Would it also mean that it would be highly likely we would never be able to borrow again?

    No that wouldn't be the case. Look at the experiences of Argentina and Russia to see what could happen.


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    #109
    ligertigon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 556 ✭✭✭ligertigon


    You should watch this if you think the bailout is good:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTbdnNgqfs8

    confessions of an economic hitman

    windpower/oil/gas/water/fishing.... thats the payback


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    #110
    OPENROAD
    Registered Users Posts: 11,692 ✭✭✭✭OPENROAD


    brianthebard wrote: »
    I don't know for sure. All I know if the banks won't be given a third or fourth chance. What happens after that I have no idea.

    Why hasn't their been a panic run yet then? Lets be honest, we can't borrow in the markets at the current rate, now if the govt push the budget through, rates should fall.


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    #111
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,316 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    brianthebard wrote: »
    No that wouldn't be the case. Look at the experiences of Argentina and Russia to see what could happen.

    I think their huge levels of natural resources explain most of that tbh.


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    #112
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    brianthebard wrote: »
    I don't know for sure. All I know if the banks won't be given a third or fourth chance. What happens after that I have no idea.




    No that wouldn't be the case. Look at the experiences of Argentina and Russia to see what could happen.

    Latvia is a more recent example on how the IMF deal with countries now.

    It isn't all cuts. They endorsed raising the minimum wage there (albeit very low) and have no problems with a scheme to help people in arrears.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #113
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,316 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    OPENROAD wrote: »
    Why hasn't their been a panic run yet then? Lets be honest, we can't borrow in the markets at the current rate, now if the govt push the budget through, rates should fall.

    The current rates are fairly meaningless, if the budget gets through the rate will probably fall back to where it was last time we sold bonds. Even with what we've already borrowed we're going to be using double digits percentages of tax revenue just to service our debt for the foreseeable future.


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    #114
    Cavehill Red
    Registered Users Posts: 6,109 ✭✭✭Cavehill Red


    amacachi wrote: »
    Doing that would mean savage cuts in spending and tax rises over the next while, something else people seem to be against.

    Not doing it means even more savage cuts. On top of the existing savage cuts.

    Continuing the guarantee = giving 60 billion to the bondholders and creditors of the gangrenous banks.

    Reneging on the guarantee to all but depositors = not having to give that money to the bondholders.

    I don't get bailed out when I punt and lose at Paddy Power. Paddy ain't bailing me out, neither's the government and nor is the EU. Why does Roman get his losing bets repaid out of Irish taxes?


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    #115
    Cavehill Red
    Registered Users Posts: 6,109 ✭✭✭Cavehill Red


    OPENROAD wrote: »
    Would it also mean that it would be highly likely we would never be able to borrow again?

    Actually, taking a bailout is more likely to mean that than reneging on the bank guarantee for bondholders of the banks.
    A bailout affects our sovereign ability to repay (currently poisoned by being overloaded with banking debts that aren't the Irish state's responsibility).


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    #116
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Hopefully most people realise that a bailout essentially means that the ship is pumped, the captain is relieved of his duties, the next budget will not be written by the Irish government. It will be written by the ECB/IMF or whomever it is that provides the money, effectivily the country loses part of it independance.


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    #117
    Cavehill Red
    Registered Users Posts: 6,109 ✭✭✭Cavehill Red


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Hopefully most people realise that a bailout essentially means that the ship is pumped, the captain is relieved of his duties, the next budget will not be written by the Irish government. It will be written by the ECB/IMF or whomever it is that provides the money, effectivily the country loses part of it independance.

    Nail on head.

    We're just about to pay for the banks in Irish sovereignty.


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    #118
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,316 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    Cavehill Red wrote: »
    Not doing it means even more savage cuts. On top of the existing savage cuts.

    Continuing the guarantee = giving 60 billion to the bondholders and creditors of the gangrenous banks.

    Reneging on the guarantee to all but depositors = not having to give that money to the bondholders.

    I don't get bailed out when I punt and lose at Paddy Power. Paddy ain't bailing me out, neither's the government and nor is the EU. Why does Roman get his losing bets repaid out of Irish taxes?
    I'm not in favour of any bail-out, just pointing out that a lot of people seem to be against cuts or tax increases without offering realistic alternatives.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    Hopefully most people realise that a bailout essentially means that the ship is pumped, the captain is relieved of his duties, the next budget will not be written by the Irish government. It will be written by the ECB/IMF or whomever it is that provides the money, effectivily the country loses part of it independance.
    We lost part of our independence when we decided to inflate a bubble using foreign money and continued to take it when the bubble burst.


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    #119
    ligertigon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 556 ✭✭✭ligertigon


    amacachi wrote: »
    I'm not in favour of any bail-out, just pointing out that a lot of people seem to be against cuts or tax increases without offering realistic alternatives.

    We lost part of our independence when we decided to inflate a bubble using foreign money and continued to take it when the bubble burst.


    Who is "we"

    I didn't


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    #120
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,316 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    ligertigon wrote: »
    Who is "we"

    I didn't

    That state which I assume you live in.


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    #121
    OPENROAD
    Registered Users Posts: 11,692 ✭✭✭✭OPENROAD


    ligertigon wrote: »
    Who is "we"

    I didn't

    You don't live in Ireland?


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