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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    race schedule for the next six months looks like this -

    March 15 -MSB 5k

    March 29 - Dunboyne 4 mile?

    April 11 - Great Ireland Run 10k?

    April 19th - Road relays?

    April 22 - first graded meet?

    April 30th to May 9th - holidays

    May 17th - Sportsworld 5 mile??

    May 24th - National League 1

    May 31 - Leinster Masters

    (graded meets)

    July 19 - National League 2

    July 26 - National T&F Masters

    August 2 - National League final

    then cross-country

    Need to put some more thought into the training schedule that goes with it...


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,370 ✭✭✭pconn062


    Lots of track in there! Good to see, I presume you're looking at 3/5k as opposed to anything shorter?


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    No race series?? Must be a 1st for you.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    Small possibility I'll do the race series five mile, or dunshaughlin ten k around the same time, but probably not.
    I expect the track races to be mainly 8 or 15. Hard to find a five slow enough for me ! :-) don't mind coming last, but if everyone is lapping me at least once I don't benefit much from the race. In the national league, I'll happily take whichever distance is available, as long as itdoesn't involve blocks or jumping over things!


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,054 ✭✭✭theboyblunder


    RayCun wrote: »
    My rough memory (must take another look at the presentation) is that he said speedwork was good, but at below max effort and the total session should not be too taxing.

    I think he'd be happy to go out and talk to your club too...

    the stuff he had in his base schedule had speedwork in it, mostly tempo intervals, fastest running was a short 10K pace bit at the end of the session


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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,079 ✭✭✭BeepBeep67


    RayCun wrote: »
    race schedule for the next six months looks like this -

    March 15 -MSB 5k 3 mile

    March 29 - Dunboyne 4 mile?

    April 11 - Great Ireland Run 10k?

    April 19th - Road relays?

    April 22 - first graded meet?

    April 30th to May 9th - holidays

    May 17th - Sportsworld 5 mile??

    May 24th - National League 1

    May 31 - Leinster Masters

    (graded meets)

    July 19 - National League 2

    July 26 - National T&F Masters

    August 2 - National League final

    then cross-country

    Need to put some more thought into the training schedule that goes with it...

    FYP


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    just a catch-up before I forget everything...

    Monday 26th - easy run home 8.61@5.00
    Tuesday 27th - easy back in again 8.6@5.00
    no session that evening, coached the kids instead
    Wednesday - 8.58@4.46, no time to do the usual long run, registration night that evening
    Thursday - 8.66@5.10
    Friday - 7.16@5.18 in the morning, 7.18@5.33 in the evening
    Saturday - nothing :eek:
    Sunday - feck all - 8.23@4.44, and another 15 minutes with the kids later

    Monday - 10.19@4.46, going back to trying high cadence - low effort on these runs, finished with diagonals but kept them to 10 seconds each one
    Tuesday - 8.69@4.47, more hc-le
    session not uploaded yet, basically the same as this one, about 900m hard up Stocking Lane to the roundabout at the top, jog down ~ 500m to a roundabout on the other side, hard up from there to the top, jog down, repeat for 6x500m
    Wednesday - not uploaded yet, about 14k @ 4.44? Followed by a 'running form' session up at the track - warmup, dynamic stretches, drills, cooldown, and some more stretches

    Core work a bit neglected last week, need to get back into it

    Also, some discussion of the Gradeds on Monday. There's going to be more endurance stuff this year, a 10, a 5 and two 3s I think (will post up thread when I get the book) Might be all track for me from April to August...


  • Registered Users Posts: 572 ✭✭✭Calvin Johnson


    Hi Ray, saw you this morning in Tymon. You were flying.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    Thursday - 7.31@4.48, easy run into work, feet took a wrong turn and brought me the shorter route

    Friday - runmutes, 8.69@5.07 and 8.63@4.54

    Saturday - easy run up to Tymon
    6x100 hills with slow walk down recovery
    2 minutes on, 3 off, 2 on, 3 off, 2 on - in theory 5k pace and regular pace, but that's impossible to judge with a watch that only shows average pace. Looking at Garmin Connect it seems to have been 5k/marathon/10k/steady/10k :pac:
    few minutes break to do the parkrun warmup
    then another 2/3/2 - looks like 5k/marathon/10k again - and 3k home

    Today - very easy run up and around Phoenix park, 17.8@4.51 followed by about 10 minutes easy with the kids at training


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    still nothing interesting to report...

    Monday - no running, platelet donation. I now have a massive purple bruise on the inside of my elbow from where the return was leaking out of the vein :rolleyes:

    Tuesday - club session in the evening, 6 x 5 minute tempo with 1 minute recovery. Usual slightly up and slightly down location, and no-one in the group I was in could time the recoveries so we were guessing. Paces were
    3.45
    3.31
    3.44
    3.32
    3.47
    3.31

    Wednesday - run home with a short interruption, 8.07@4.42 and 5.55@4.44

    Thursday - easy run in, 9.46@4.52

    today is the usual runmute both ways.

    Trying to add a bit of distance into all the easy runs, but I've a couple of things on next week that are going to blow holes in my running schedule, it will probably be another light week :(


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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    Man, so much for running more in February :o:(

    Got out Saturday morning, too ****ing early - jog up to Tymon, 6 x hill sprints, 15 minute tempo, second tempo was only 7 minutes :rolleyes: because I had to get home to bring the kids out to Santry for a long day of competition.
    (The girl is still starting too slowly in distance races, the boy did great, 3rd in 600m heat and 5th in final, only two seconds off a medal. There was also long jump)

    Sunday about 90 minutes around Phoenix Park. Deer everywhere this morning - got halfway up Military Road and turned back because there was a herd infront of me, onto the path along the Kyber and another herd was there so I rand across the middle of the field to Acres Road, eventually got to Chesterfield and just ran up and down before going home for another day of juvenile competition.
    (My two were nowhere, but! all week there's been drama in the club because the under 11 girls team that ran together in the last few competitions would not be together this time. A new girl joined in September, she's fast, and she deserved her place on the team. Souting and crying, and that was just the parents :). In the final there was one second between first and fourth. The girls came third, and only because we picked the strongest team)

    Monday - no running, and shaved my beard off!, because

    Tuesday - lactate/VO2 test in Trinity. I must have had them pulling their hair out with my amateurism, because I showed up with a big bruise on my arm from the platelet donation last week (was touch and go whether they'd do the test at all, had to convince them that it is very different to a whole blood donation [and really it is]), the whole point of the test is to support training by heart rate and I don't have a HRM (but I have just bought a Garmin 220 with one), and when they asked me if I was well and healthy I said, "Yes... but the kids have had colds over the weekend and...)

    In the end - probably because I was there anyway :) - we went ahead. Since I am old and not a lifelong athlete they decided not to test me to failure, just to the point where the lactate curve was clear. So on with the monitor and the harness and the mask, and out with the blood, and onto the ****ing treadmill... (Only went to 17km/h, about 3.52/km)

    All the numbers -
    BP: 143/90
    resting pulse: 84
    BMI: 21.8
    % body fat: ~15
    VO2 max: 65.9 (estimated, I didn't go that high)
    Velocity@TLac: 15.8
    HR@TLac: 175
    % VO2 Max @TLac: 86
    % HRMax@TLac: 95
    BLa @ TLac: 3.7

    plus loads more blood and pulmonary function figures...

    Spent about 30-40 minutes after all the tests and calculations discussing the results and the training plan based on it. It's a four week cycle
    week 1: 1 interval, 3 steady, 2 easy
    week 2: 2 interval, 2 steady, 2 easy
    week 3: 1 interval, 3 steady, 2 easy
    and week 4 is a step-back week, easy and steady only
    Two easy and two steady options, all based on HR

    Supposed to drop in for another (free) blood test in a couple of months, to confirm that some of the readings on tuesday's test were down to the platelet donation, and then a full follow-up session at the end of June. All very interesting, and I will be following the plan (unless the sound of the HR alerts drives me completely crazy :pac: )

    Wednesday - just a short run back into work in the morning.Then the long drives to and from Athlone in the evening. Myself and the kid enjoyed the meet. Barshim was great, obviously, as were the 400, 4x2, and the mile. Weren't positioned well to really appreciate the sprints, not that there's much to see anyway :) The starting/timing system... what can you say, it needs to be sorted out. There were more false starts due to equipment failure than real starts (in the sprints) Kids relays seem like a good idea until it's 9.30 and the meet isn't over yet and you think about the 20 minutes they took up. But overall it was good, the atmosphere around Barshim's jumps was just fantastic.

    thursday and today -as predicted on Tuesday, sick :( Don't feel so bad when sitting in bed but start coughing my lungs up when I walk around


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    finally got out for another run this morning. Still not 100%, but I wanted to give the new watch, HRM, and workout.

    Setting up workouts was a bit of a pain in the arse. I created the five of them in Garmin Connect, but they didn't send to the watch. Read the comments on the DC Rainmaker review and someone recommended using Training Centre instead, that did the trick.

    The watch itself is great. Picked up the HRM and satellites instantly, before I'd even locked the door behind me, and starting the workout was very easy. The run itself... I should explain the workouts first...

    heart rate zones are
    A1 = 145-155
    A2 = 156-164
    A3- = 165-170
    A3+ = 170-175
    A4 = 180+

    Interval session is 4-8 x 1km@ A4 (180+) and 1.5 x (interval duration) for recovery
    Steady(1) is 20 @ A3-, 20 @ A3+, 20 @ A3-
    Steady(2) is 15 @ A3-, 15 @ A3+, 15 @ A3-, 15 @ A3+
    Easy (1) is (5 @ A1, 10 @ A2) x 4
    Easy (2) is (5 @ A1, 9 @ A2, 1 minute hard) x 4
    all with a warmup first and cooldown afterwards

    and the overall plan is
    week 1 - Interval, Easy, Steady, Steady, Easy, Steady, off
    week 2 - Interval, Easy, Steady, Interval, Easy, Steady, off
    week 3 - Interval, Easy, Steady, Steady, Easy, Steady, off
    week 4, 2 easy, 2 steady
    3rd and 4th runs are on successive days, which is not ideal, so 3 should be in the morning and 4 in the evening. Logistically I can't avoid a run on the 'off' day, but will keep it as short and easy as possible

    Sunday is an easy day anyway, so that's what I did today. Not the full session because I'm still not 100% and I was helping out at a Meet & Train later in the morning, just three sets of 5/9/1. It went okay - I wasn't really up for a windy, rainy run, and I am clearly going to have to get used to the sound of HR alerts as I drift up and down the effort zones! - but glad to be back out.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    oh, and was talking to one of the organisers of the Graded meets yesterday. First meet (April 22nd) has a track 10k, and they want a big field, even if that means a big field with lots of old and slow runners, so....


  • Registered Users Posts: 112 ✭✭P_Fitz


    That's a fairly detailed training plan there Ray, best of luck with it.

    Good to here the watch picks up a signal quickly, mine's a disaster, it usually takes about 5 minutes to get a signal.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,895 ✭✭✭Sacksian


    RayCun wrote: »
    oh, and was talking to one of the organisers of the Graded meets yesterday. First meet (April 22nd) has a track 10k, and they want a big field, even if that means a big field with lots of old and slow runners, so....

    That could be good. Based on the past few years of graded races, it's usually 800s and 3ks on the first night of the graded - do you know if the 10k is going on first (I think that's what they usually do) or replacing one of these? I'm trying to plan my summer.

    Any other juicy details beside the DMR and 10k? Is there a steeplechase in there? I'm going to skip the 10k; I'm pretty sure my hips would snap off if I did a 25 lap track race. I'd probably need a water station too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    They had a water station at nationals for the 10k last time I was there, might have one here too...

    They haven't released the gradeds book yet, maybe at next week's AGM. There is a bit of a push to have more endurance competition in the gradeds, so as well as the 10 there'll be a 5 and two 3s.. there was some talk of a endurance league through the meets, but that might just have been an idea floated for next year, I can't remember :o

    Can't imagine they'd have a 3k on the same night as the 10k. Don't know if they plan to open the meet with the 10k or have it as the last race. Steeplechase... can't remember either :o


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,895 ✭✭✭Sacksian


    RayCun wrote: »
    They had a water station at nationals for the 10k last time I was there, might have one here too...

    They haven't released the gradeds book yet, maybe at next week's AGM. There is a bit of a push to have more endurance competition in the gradeds, so as well as the 10 there'll be a 5 and two 3s.. there was some talk of a endurance league through the meets, but that might just have been an idea floated for next year, I can't remember :o

    Can't imagine they'd have a 3k on the same night as the 10k. Don't know if they plan to open the meet with the 10k or have it as the last race. Steeplechase... can't remember either :o

    Excellent! Thanks - looking forward to it. They didn't too badly in terms of endurance last year - think there were two 5ks and a 3k - don't think a 10k was added but there may have been another 5 or 3 added.

    There's always 5ks at the National League and Leinsters too (and neither are too scary), so having a 10k and two 3ks would be good for variety.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 558 ✭✭✭ECOLII


    In terms of Water stations didn't have one last year and race was held at start of the night which generally meant anyone competing/ warming up for 1st "official" event tended to be around and no one else.

    I can't imagine steeplechase making a comeback to be honest numbers used to be very poor for this which was one of the reasons it was scrapped in the past

    Definitely puts a spanner in the works as the 2 target 10k's are now 10 days rather than 6 weeks apart :(


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    RayCun wrote: »
    Spent about 30-40 minutes after all the tests and calculations discussing the results and the training plan based on it. It's a four week cycle
    week 1: 1 interval, 3 steady, 2 easy
    week 2: 2 interval, 2 steady, 2 easy
    week 3: 1 interval, 3 steady, 2 easy
    and week 4 is a step-back week, easy and steady only
    Two easy and two steady options, all based on HR

    Great detail here Ray.
    How was the training plan arrived at?
    Did it account if you were training for 800m/5km/Marathon etc?

    I'm very interested to see how this goes- more so with the 2 steady days or the intervals following a steady day.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    Yeah, its not a one size fits all plan, but it might be the same for 5k to half marathon. Also, I gave them the details of a standard training week before starting the medical tests, so that would have fed in to the plan. If Krusty came in, he might have been given the same basic structure, but more reps in the interval session, more time at A3+ in the steady runs. Or he might have been given two runs a day, I don't know.

    Steady run after steady run leaves me tired!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    more stats to geek out over :)

    So Sunday was warmup, 3 x(5@A1, 9@A2, 1@hard), an extra 5 at A1, cooldown
    warmup: 1.99 @5.14/km, AHR 144
    A1: 1.02@4.54 /km, AHR 150
    A2: 1.94@ 4.39/km, AHR 159
    hard: .31@ 3.15/km, AHR 171
    A1: 1.03@ 4.52/km, AHR 154
    A2: 2.01@ 4.29/km, AHR 160
    hard: .29@ /3.27km, AHR 174
    A1: 1.01@ /4.57km, AHR 154
    A2: 2.05@ /4.23km, AHR 160
    hard: .31@ /3.11km, AHR 171
    A1: .98@ /5.05km, AHR 155
    cooldown: .79@ /4.25km, AHR 161

    shorter than on the schedule, but it was just a tester for equipment and workouts really

    Monday plan - warmup, 15@A3, 15@A2, 15@A3, 15@A2, cooldown
    warmup: 1.1 @5.09/km, AHR 143
    A3: 3.71@4.02 /km, AHR 166
    A2: 3.71@ 4.03/km, AHR 173 (this had me puzzled until I remembered I had to stop and tie my shoelace :pac: )
    A2: 3.58@ 4.12/km, AHR 169
    cooldown: 1.36@ 4.58/km, AHR 155

    for this one I got up early, cycled into work, and hit the trail around UCD before work. I was wrecked by the end of the 3rd 15 minute interval, the snow started and I was back near the office again so I bailed. Don't feel guilty, tbh, because I was still fairly sick at this stage, okay during the day but a lot of coughing at night, possibly shouldn't have been running at all :o

    Anyway, lesson learned: this is the harder of the 2 steady workouts, and the structure makes dropping the last 15 too tempting. Not a good choice for an early morning run on a loop near the office

    Tuesday plan - warmup, 20@A3, 20@A2, 20@A3, cooldown
    warmup: 0.23 @4.58/km, AHR 146
    A3: 4.56@4.18 /km, AHR 167
    A2: 4.87@ 4.06/km, AHR 173
    A3: 4.53@ 4.25/km, AHR 167
    cooldown: .89@ 5.29/km, AHR 154

    lesson learned from this run - check you are doing the right workout before you start! Warmed up and started the first interval, watch kept beeping to tell me I was too slow, I kept speeding up and thinking it felt like very hard work... then the watch beeped again after a k to tell me I'd finished my first interval :o

    So, started the right workout and off I went again, just a short warmup (because I'd been running ten minutes :rolleyes:) and into the intervals. Lots of laps of Bushy park, handily placed on my way home. Felt fine overall, but pretty tired by the time I got home.

    this morning - warmup, 4 x(5@A1, 10@A2), cooldown
    warmup: .59 @5.49/km, AHR 133
    A1: 1@5.01 /km, AHR 150
    A2: 2.2@ 4.32/km, AHR 158
    A1: .97@ 5.09/km, AHR 152
    A2: 2.22@ 4.30/km, AHR 160
    A1: 1@ /5.01km, AHR 152
    A2: 2.18@ /4.36km, AHR 161
    A1: .95@ /5.16km, AHR 152
    A2: 2.18@ /4.35km, AHR 161
    cooldown: .83@ 5.16/km, AHR 152

    Legs were pretty tired this morning, easy run didn't feel all that easy! Stiff for the day too, should be okay by tomorrow afternoon though

    one annoying side-effect of all this heart rate stuff - I can no longer stand patiently at a traffic light waiting to cross, because my watch will start beeping at me! So I have to go running up and down the side of the road or take a detour to avoid stopping running...


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    reading that ^^ gives me a headache :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    don't worry, I'm not going to be typing all that in every week :pac:


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,272 ✭✭✭Dubgal72


    RayCun wrote: »
    don't worry, I'm not going to be typing all that in every week :pac:
    Ah good, I was going to advertise for a translator otherwise :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    and obviously I'm not aware of any of that when I'm running!

    When each new bit of the workout starts it says what it is (eg '15 minutes at A2') (which is great if I look at the watch rather than assuming I have it on the right workout). Then during the interval it counts down how much is left. In smaller numbers at the top it says what my HR is, but not as an absolute value, a number like 3.2 - zone 3 and .2 of the way to zone 4. I don't look at it much, just listen for the beeps


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,895 ✭✭✭Sacksian


    This is all very interesting to me! I did the UCD test towards the end of last year and got the HRMax, Vo2max, etc.

    I'm just doing my easy/recovery/non-session running at HRMAX-50 (the rough HADD guideline, rather than what UCD recommended), which is around 70% of HRMax. And then checking it ocassionally during a session to make sure I'll finish!

    Have you found any difference in effort/pace on the easy runs yet?


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    so far I have done 2 steady runs (or 1.75 steady runs!) and 1.85 easy runs... so haven't noticed any change yet :)

    Compared to what I was running before this training started...

    average pace on the easy runs seems to be about the same, but the runs are longer
    average pace on the steady runs is faster than on previous easy runs and they are longer, substantially slower than tempo efforts but much longer
    total distance/week will probably be about 10k up in a regular week, 20k down in a stepback week

    I'm in no hurry to draw conclusions anyway. This week is an outlier because I'm getting over illness, next week is a stepback week (my schedule runs backwards from a race not forwards from the test)... we'll see what I'm like in June - if my legs are still attached - and how the follow-up test goes


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    Jesus, that session is not much easier in the afternoon!


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    this morning - supposed to be a day off, but my bike was in work, so had to run in. Set an alert to keep my HR under 150, don't know if it even went over 140, a very easy jog in


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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    Month|2010|2011|2012|2013|2014|2015
    January|38.8|105.61|187.46|257.13|202.59|199
    February|35.5|106.68|191.79|212.8|217.1|190
    March|53.2|121.83|214|45.93|249.45
    April|72|106.33|201.18|51|150.36
    May|75.9|107.13|175.21|41.9|123.51
    June|90.2|64.85|150.09|89.72|150?
    July|118.1|126.92|242.21|147.92|200?
    August|124.4|168|240.27|173.96|227.51
    September|154|171.75|203.69|178.55|202.86
    October|108.7|191.2|229|196.88|201.55
    November|58.4|128.9|283.87|208.34|177.62
    December|83|166.58|285|233.23|219.01
    Total|1012.2|1578.1|2604|1837.3|~2300


    Steady #1 session on Thursday, loops of Bushy park again. The funny thing about training by HR instead of pace is that I find myself looking forward to uphill drags or having the wind in my face, because I find it easier to keep the effort levels high when the terrain is against me. There's one bit of Bushy that is slightly downhill with the wind at your back, and every time I ran down it I dropped out of the HR zone, just couldn't get my legs to go fast enough.

    recovery on Friday

    Steady #1 again this morning, around Tymon

    one annoying thing from the last few days, middle right toe is sore, the nail is all over the place. This toenail and the one beside it went black after DCM and they've never been the same since...


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