HPS ammo

fish slapped

Anyone using the HPS 308 155gr rounds and if so what kind of results are you getting??


Picy's would be great!!

bunny shooter

I'm sure Tac will be onto this soon :eek: ............... you'll hear all about his Remmy & HPS. Apart from pimping guns those are his fav subjects :P

Cass

I have used all of the target HPS ammo (which unless you specifically order) most off HPS' ammo is.

The 155 gr bullets in .308 are a great round, as with all HPS ammo. They have an average MV of 2950 fps from a 30" barrel. They maintain supersonic velocity out to 1,000 yards giving great, and more importantly, consistant results. The other HPS ammo would include 168, 175, 190 and 200 gr bullets. Other variations are available however these must be specifically ordered from Carmicheal himself (or an agent i would presume).

The 155s are the fastest of the HPS factory loads and so use less MOA/clicks to acheieve the necessary height. They are more prone to wind than the heavier rounds, but really test your wind reading abilities. They have a BC of 0.445 compared to 0.483 - 0.535 of the heavier bullets. Most importantly they are considerably more accurate and consistant than the next available factory load here which would be Lapua Scenar's. Still a fantastic bullet, but at €42 per 20 for lapua and €52 per 50 of HPS which would you choose.

Below is a full drop chart for the 155 gr bullets i've tried at the various ranges over the last months. It was shot from a 30", 1:12 twist barrel, 100yd zero, and a 0.25 click value scope. Hope it helps.


HPS AMMO ONLY



100yds - 200yds - 300yds - 500yds - 600yds - 800yds - 900yds - 1,000yds

- 0

---

1

---

4.5 ---- 10.75

---

13

---

22.5 ---- 27.25 ---- 33.5 - MOA

- 0

---

4

---

18

---

43

---

52

---

90

---

108

---

134 - Clicks

Vegeta

ezridax wrote: »

€52 per 50 of HPS

Jesus that is good value

tac foley

bunny shooter wrote: »

I'm sure Tac will be onto this soon :eek: ............... you'll hear all about his Remmy & HPS. Apart from pimping guns those are his fav subjects :P

Pimping guns? Moi?

You must be thinking of somebody else called tac.

Most of my guns would be used as tomato stakes by the likes of youse guys.

tac

bunny shooter

tac foley wrote: »

........You must be thinking of somebody else called tac......

I am : ) tacwho ; )

And don't forget I LOVE "old" guns too ; )

fish slapped

Deffo worth putting a few down through the AI then, when the licence arrives (promised within the next 2 weeks!!)

Any other ammo worth trying for targets along with the HPS and Lapua...

Tackleberrywho

bunny shooter wrote: »

I'm sure Tac will be onto this soon :eek: ............... you'll hear all about his Remmy & HPS. Apart from pimping guns those are his fav subjects :P

hardy har har
HPS 125grain Nosler Ballistic tipped, €179 for 100= €1.79 per round= €35.80 per 20. Which makes it very high quality ammo cheaper than hornady in similar configuration, and cheaper than Remington Match .308 ammo in Target configuration.

However hornady Tap 155grain (€45 a box 20) standard deviation was 9fps and HPS was 12fps. so an extra tenner for 3 fps on average is a poor trade off.

Cass

fish slapped wrote:

Any other ammo worth trying for targets along with the HPS and Lapua...

Honestly i wouldn't even bother with the Lapua. From a price and performance point of view you will only loose out on both fronts.

Remeber if its a 1:12 to 1:14 twist stay with 155 gr, if its a
1:8 to 1:11 try stay with 175 gr to 190 gr.

Tackleberrywho, i think that fish slapped is asking from a target shooting perspective. So hornady tap and the noslar rounds you use would not be suitable for the job.

Apologies if i'm mistaken.

Tackleberrywho

ezridax wrote: »

Honestly i wouldn't even bother with the Lapua. From a price and performance point of view you will only loose out on both fronts.

Remeber if its a 1:12 to 1:14 twist stay with 155 gr, if its a
1:8 to 1:11 try stay with 175 gr to 190 gr.

Tackleberrywho, i think that fish slapped is asking from a target shooting perspective. So hornady tap and the noslar rounds you use would not be suitable for the job.

Apologies if i'm mistaken.

Ezri, I would have not replied at all except bunny was slagging me off,so without being childish I have given information on HPS ammo, I concur not target ammo, however they maintain (HPS) they use the same procedures and quality as they do in their hunting as they do in their Target

My .308 is a 1/12 and I found the Remington match were the best to group, almost 1 hole(I have not got the box any more so not definite on grain weight),
followed by hornady tap 155grain, and then followed by HPS hunting.

In HPS target, the price is hard to beat and accuracy for the buck.
AFAIK HPS is much more affordable than Remington match ammo.
All my tests were on the 100 yard range so for Target shooters my info is limited, however standard deviation in a product is a good indication of performance.
The caveat being, I have not got a Custom barrel so the deviation could be attributed to this.

Perhaps you could test a few HPS target and a few of my HPS hunting in your target barrel and see if the HPS SD is consistent across the product range.

bunny shooter

Slagging off is a bit strong Poking FUN is more the way I see it

Cass

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

Ezri, I would have not replied at all except bunny was slagging me off,so without being childish I have given information on HPS ammo, I concur not target ammo, however they maintain (HPS) they use the same procedures and quality as they do in their hunting as they do in their Target

Deep breaths Tack.

I'm sure the quality in all HPS ammo is the same and all top notch. However there is still a real difference between a target round/bullet compared to a hunting round/bullet.

• Firstly the BC of a 125 gr (you use) would be around 0.366 whereas my target bullets would be between 0.505 to 0.535.
• Secondly there is the powder. I think HPS use ViT140 in the target rounds, but not in the hunting rounds. Could be wrong on that, but i don't see the need to be pushing a hunting round anywhere near as fast as a target round.
• Thirdly the weight of a 125 gr hunting round is too light. You may need to go for a heavier bullet to give you some wind bucking properties. So you need 170gr hunting bullet to get the same BC as a 155 gr target.
• Lastly the price. You mentioned your hunting ammo cost €179 per 100. Target ammo costs €104 per 100. Its down to design and purpose.

I'm sure the hunting ammo is well capable of target shootig to a limited degree, however you are better of using ammo that is specifically designed for the purpose you intend it for.

All my tests were on the 100 yard range so for Target shooters my info is limited, however standard deviation in a product is a good indication of performance.

I still maintain a 100 yd distance (for target shooting anyway) is a poor guide to the true performance of a .308 cal bullet. Most rounds would not stabilise until 200yds. So for a true (minimum) test of a bullets ability would be at 300yds. After your 100 yd zero of course.

Perhaps you could test a few HPS target and a few of my HPS hunting in your target barrel and see if the HPS SD is consistent across the product range.

Afraid not. Anything under 175 gr and my rifle will not shoot well. Too light. Mine is the 1:10 twist. Have tried using lighter rounds and she sis not like them. it doesn't matter though as i had her built for the bigger bullets and 190 gr or 200 gr she loves.

dCorbus

From my relatively limited experience, the HPS .308 in 155gr stabilise best from 300-400yd's outward. The 100yd is only my zero'ing distance - and oddly enough I've found the MOA-measured groups are smaller out at 300yd.

That's in a 26'' 1:11 twist factory barrel.

They're a good round - but again, it depends on your own rifle and your own needs.

(I've also found the heavier 175gr HPS out of the same rifle bucks the wind a wee bit better at 500 - 600yds, but doesn't seem to have the legs out to the 1000yd)

What rifle / action / barrel are you using? (You mention the AI - which model?) And what distances are you intending to target shoot? - as all these will make a difference in your ammo choice.

Hope that's of some minor help (but TBH I think ezridax has probably rattled through a good few more different HPS rounds that many of us put together on his quest for perfection!:D)

dC

Cass

dCorbus wrote: »

................ (but TBH I think ezridax has probably gone through more different HPS rounds that many of us put together on his quest for perfection!:D)

dC

Still ........................................... questing.

dCorbus

PS I forgot to mention that my abovementioned rifle also likes the 168 Lapua Scenars -

but I get better results and consistency from the HPS, with the added bonus of saving a shed-load of cash (which is nice).

Tackleberrywho

ezridax wrote: »

Deep breaths Tack.

I'm sure the quality in all HPS ammo is the same and all top notch. However there is still a real difference between a target round/bullet compared to a hunting round/bullet.

• Firstly the BC of a 125 gr (you use) would be around 0.366 whereas my target bullets would be between 0.505 to 0.535.
• Secondly there is the powder. I think HPS use ViT140 in the target rounds, but not in the hunting rounds. Could be wrong on that, but i don't see the need to be pushing a hunting round anywhere near as fast as a target round.
• Thirdly the weight of a 125 gr hunting round is too light. You may need to go for a heavier bullet to give you some wind bucking properties. So you need 170gr hunting bullet to get the same BC as a 155 gr target.
• Lastly the price. You mentioned your hunting ammo cost €179 per 100. Target ammo costs €104 per 100. Its down to design and purpose.

I'm sure the hunting ammo is well capable of target shootig to a limited degree, however you are better of using ammo that is specifically designed for the purpose you intend it for.




I still maintain a 100 yd distance (for target shooting anyway) is a poor guide to the true performance of a .308 cal bullet. Most rounds would not stabilise until 200yds. So for a true (minimum) test of a bullets ability would be at 300yds. After your 100 yd zero of course.




Afraid not. Anything under 175 gr and my rifle will not shoot well. Too light. Mine is the 1:10 twist. Have tried using lighter rounds and she sis not like them. it doesn't matter though as i had her built for the bigger bullets and 190 gr or 200 gr she loves.

Fair enough Ezri, I think the Match ammo was 175 grain, however I can not be sure.
I've only a 20" barrel so I'm not sure if the round will stabilize at the same range.

Perhaps the barrel length would make no difference, but one would imagine that different lengths would give a variance in results.

Anywho, much as I'd love to stay and chat, I'm off to my 30th birthday Party

Cass

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

Anywho, much as I'd love to stay and chat, I'm off to my 30th birthday Party

You can read this when you get back so.

I've only a 20" barrel so I'm not sure if the round will stabilize at the same range.

Perhaps the barrel length would make no difference, but one would imagine that different lengths would give a variance in results.

Barrel length is crucial. The majority of HPS ammo is loaded to be fired from a 30" barrel. Some sources say that for every 1" you are short of the 30" inch mark you loose between 35-50 fps from the true MV of the round. Say thats true and the 155 target ammo has a MV of 2950 fps. You would (possibly) loose 350 - 500 fps meaing your MV could potentially be 2450 - 2500 fps. Meaing if you were to shhot beside me with the same ammo and both zeroed for 100yds and we moved to say 300yds. You would need more MOA than me to reach the same distance.

There is also the fact that with a reduced MV (because of the shortened barrel) you may not have, either the MOA on your scope to reach the longer distances or worse again, because of the reduced MV, not have the speed needed to accurately hit the target with any consistancy. I hope i explained that somewhat well.

You could always go the other way too. It is somewhat agreed that at 32" you have reached the optimal length for a barrel to achieve the best results. A 34" or even 36" barrel may produce slightly higher velocities however the extra velocity attained would be minimal compard to the cost (and weight) of having such a long barrel. In other words after 32" you do not get as much in return for the extra length.

Tackleberrywho

I always adhere to your advice !

ranger4

Is the HPs ammo availible mollycoated.

Cass

With a hunting bullet, perhaps, but as per the name of the forum we are refering to the target bullets. So it would be a no to them being moly coated.

demonloop

ranger4 wrote: »

Is the HPs ammo availible mollycoated.

Affirmative.

Tackleberrywho

ezridax wrote: »

With a hunting bullet, perhaps, but as per the name of the forum we are refering to the target bullets. So it would be a no to them being moly coated.

If HPS in this configuration
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=273029
The BC is quite good,(almost as good as 168 grain hornady match ammo) and it's a hunting round, but could do target for guys plinking.

For someone who likes plinking and not bothered about comps (I'm guessing there is some out there )

Cass

There is no doubt Tack that there are hunting rounds out there with as good a BC as HPS. Two things though that would stop me or anyone from using them;

• With a hunting type bullet you generally have to go higher than the HPS target bullet to achieve the same BC. For example a 168 gr Hornady or 168gr Noslar BT would have a BC of about 0.445 the same as the HPS 155gr. So if you are using a 1:13 twist barrel/rifle that would like the lighter 155 gr, but may not like the heavier 168 or even 175 gr you could find yourself getting inconsistant groups, etc.
• The second would be (hate to repeat myself) the cost. Even buying HPS hunting rounds you are still looking at a price (per 50) of twice that of the HPS target stuff. So even from a plinking point of view it would in fact be cheaper for a hunter or target shooter to use the target ammo for plinking/zeroing, etc then switch to the hunting bullet for actual hunting. Now if i'm wrong on the price of Hornady i apologise, but they would have to be coming in at less than €52 per 50 (or €20 per 20) to be competitive, price wise.

I nort dismissing what you're saying merely trying to explain my opinion on the matter.

tac foley

'....................doesn't seem to have the legs out to the 1000yd)'

Well, shoooting from a 26" barrel it certainly won't - that's why target rifle barrels are 30" or longer.

tac

dCorbus

that's why target rifle barrels are 30" or longer

I think what you mean to say is that "most competitive custom target rifle barrels are 30'' or longer"?

My rifle is a target rifle and has a 26'' barrel - Or is this the exception that proves your point?;)

A longer barrel will certainly help me increase my scores (at least that's the plan;):D), but rest assured a 26'' barrel with good wind-reading skills will have no difficulty putting rounds into the 5 Ring at 1000yds (Pity my wind-reading skills are not yet up to the job!). Even without good wind-reading skills, she'll still send them downrange into the 4-5 at 1000yds without too much fuss and bother.

Yes, a 30-32'' barrel would be a better job - but not many factory rifles come with them.

On a slightly unrelated note, for someone who has the opinion that F-Class and Long-range Target Shooting is in some way "elitist" (why and who tells you this stuff, I don't know), posting misleading information which could lead a lad to not take up long-range target shooting due to barrel length issues etc., seems to be, in itself, to be the kind of elitism and arms-race attitude which you yourself have on previous occasions eluded to in others.

And now you've gone and got me all flustered and off-topic

ranger4

ezridax wrote: »

With a hunting bullet, perhaps, but as per the name of the forum we are refering to the target bullets. So it would be a no to them being moly coated.

Why not moly coated for Target work? with Less friction of naked bullets down bore and higher velocity with Less presure issues moly coated bullets are used for Target and special purpose Loadings.

tac foley

dCorbus wrote: »

I think what you mean to say is that "most competitive custom target rifle barrels are 30'' or longer"?

My rifle is a target rifle and has a 26'' barrel - Or is this the exception that proves your point?;)

A longer barrel will certainly help me increase my scores (at least that's the plan;):D), but rest assured a 26'' barrel with good wind-reading skills will have no difficulty putting rounds into the 5 Ring at 1000yds (Pity my wind-reading skills are not yet up to the job!). Even without good wind-reading skills, she'll still send them downrange into the 4-5 at 1000yds without too much fuss and bother.

Yes, a 30-32'' barrel would be a better job - but not many factory rifles come with them.

On a slightly unrelated note, for someone who has the opinion that F-Class and Long-range Target Shooting is in some way "elitist" (why and who tells you this stuff, I don't know), posting misleading information which could lead a lad to not take up long-range target shooting due to barrel length issues etc., seems to be, in itself, to be the kind of elitism and arms-race attitude which you yourself have on previous occasions eluded to in others.
And now you've gone and got me all flustered and off-topic

Sir - it's posts like this one if yours that make me wonder why I bother to get out of bed some mornings.

No, I don't have a target rifle.

No, I don't shoot target rifle.

BUT - I DO know a man who makes them, although with all the fine target rifle builders you have over in the RoI I doubt if his name means anything to you.

His name is Norman Clark.

He builds target rifles.

They ALL have barrels of around 30" or longer.

There were four of his rifles on our range today [two in 6.5-284, one in 6.5AI and one in .308Win. He is a member of our gun club - and all had either 30" or 32" barrels - designed to 'beat the bump' that the .308Win round seems to suffer, and ensure that the bullet is still supersonic at 900m/1000yds.

Look at a line-up at Bisley, and show me the 26" barrelled target rifles there.

As for 'seems to be, in itself, to be the kind of elitism and arms-race attitude which you yourself have on previous occasions eluded to in others' - I haven't the foggiest notion what you are talking about. I have absolutely no axe to grind where target rifle shooting of any kind is concerned, not having taken part in civilian-style target shooting for fun since I had all my semi-autos taken off me back in 1988. I have nothing but admiration for the dedication and application of those who shoot in this difficult discipline, at whatever level they take part. Perhaps you are confusing me with somebody else?

If you want to carry this on, please do it by PM....and by the way, your use of emoticons passes me by completely. As I've noted countless times before, I don't see them except as hollow squares so you could be laffing, frowning or simply taking the p*** for all I know.

tac

BTB - the word you are looking for is 'aluded' not 'eluded'. ;=)

Cass

ranger4 wrote: »

Why not moly coated for Target work?

Apologies. I will clarify.

The bullets currently available at the moment are the non moly coated variety. HPS do a line of moly coated bullets, such as the new 155 gr. They are ( i hesitate to use the word) specialist order.

Personally i (and most of the lads if not all that i shoot with) can and are getting good to great results with the non moly bullets. Also if only some of the bullet types are moly and a shooter wishes to change to a different type which does not come in moly then its a serious cleaning needed to remove any coating of the barrel and then recoating if you go back to the moly. Alot of unnecessary hassle for some (me included)

tac foley

ranger4 wrote: »

Why not moly coated for Target work? with Less friction of naked bullets down bore and higher velocity with Less presure issues moly coated bullets are used for Target and special purpose Loadings.

Many target rifle shooters in the rest of the world still use moly-coated bullets.

Three of the four on our range today, shooting-in their new barrels, were shooting moly-coated bullets.

tac

Sandy22

tac foley wrote: »

BTB - the word you are looking for is 'aluded' not 'eluded'. ;=)

BTB - the word you are looking for is 'alluded', not 'aluded'. Maybe the other 'l' eluded you. TTP

tac foley

Sandy22 wrote: »

BTB - the word you are looking for is 'alluded', not 'aluded'. Maybe the other 'l' eluded you. TTP

Thanks for reading.

'TTP'?

tac