Stealing from work. Is it ever justified?

Biggins

I was reading a report in today's English Times and it got me thinking...
Is there anyone that feels its ok to steal from work? Is it ever justified?

My own thoughts is that its not. I've had to let people go before due to this very misbehaviour.
I knew of others that were at it elsewhere and I suspect a few that are currently at it now.

It will never be eradicated but how can it be stopped to some extent?
Have you ever just thought about doing it?
So 'After Hours', whats your call on stealing from work?
Will it get worse in this area of crime, if the country gets worse and the lower paid are hit more in the pocket by our government?

---

Here is a copy of the Times report by the way: http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/2172/wwwthetimescoukttonewsu.jpg

phill106

Seems if you are a banker, it is fine.

prinz

No. Although I will come clean and admit that I have from time to time printed personal items on company printer paper :eek:

listermint

What if your a fulltime burglar?

phasers

Does shaking the vending machines count as stealing from work?

twinsen

Stealing is stealing for me. It doesnt matter who you are stealing from.

Riskymove

listermint wrote: »

What if your a fulltime burglar?

would that mean you put things back!!

phill106

Does stealing time, posting on boards.ie count?

senordingdong

Haha, it's like the stealing to feed your family routine.

anniehoo

Do heavy duty bin bags count? Theyre expensive in the shops.

colinod0806

twinsen wrote: »

Stealing is stealing for me. It doesnt matter who you are stealing from.

op wasnt asking if you would call it something else. is it justified?

listermint

Riskymove wrote: »

would that mean you put things back!!

Touche :cool:

mikemac

Biggins wrote: »

My own thoughts is that its not.

But you thought it was ok for an Army intelligence analyst to release classified and private information?
They are an employee paid to do a job

Duggy747

I've stolen the hearts & minds of everyone at work..........


























Now I just need to find out where to put their corpses :pac:

Vourney

No it's never justified.
I'd never stoop down to the level of my employer.

Biggins

feelingstressed wrote: »

But you thought it was ok for an Army intelligence analyst to release classified and private information?
They are an employee paid to do a job

...And he did it by gathering all the information didn't he, which I'm sure he was being paid to do anyway?
He, by the way also didn't gain from it at any stage - but that whole area is a big topic in itself and I understand where your coming from.

I won't derail this thread so I'll stop there on that topic.

Elenxor

Yep..I use stapler for personal letters, print off recipes, paper clips, biro,walk out with rubber bands on my wrist....
Gawd I'm so bad!

lisaface

phill106 wrote: »

Seems if you are a banker, it is fine.

... or a government official - let's not forget the 'Ahern Scandal' not too long ago

ebixa82

Perhaps not justified but when you are working a minimum wage job for a large multinational company like Tescos or Boots I can see how some people might see it as a victimless crime.

Who is the real victim if an employee steals something worth 5-10€ from the likes of Tesco's who could easily take in 30,000-40,000€ through the tills daily?

prinz

ebixa82 wrote: »

Who is the real victim if an employee steals something worth 5-10€ from the likes of Tesco's who could easily take in 30,000-40,000€ through the tills daily?

Sure why stop at €10 and why stop at one employee... you realise that every employee doing a bit of thieving from Tesco's or the likes is putting other employees job's on the line?

Mr Benevolent

ebixa82 wrote: »

Who is the real victim if an employee steals something worth 5-10€ from the likes of Tesco's who could easily take in 30,000-40,000€ through the tills daily?

What?

thebigbiffo

pens and other such stationary - i'm going to hell i know

Duggy747

ebixa82 wrote: »

Who is the real victim if an employee steals something worth 5-10€ from the likes of Tesco's who could easily take in 30,000-40,000€ through the tills daily?

Uh....................children?

lisaface

prinz wrote: »

Sure why stop at €10 and why stop at one employee... you realise that every employee doing a bit of thieving from Tesco's or the likes is putting other employees job's on the line?

This made me laugh, thanks for the laughs!

Duggy747 wrote: »

Uh....................children?

I don't quite understand your reply to the other person. How are Children the victims?? Are you saying All of Tesco workers have Children?

...And how did you come up with that idea??
*scratches head* I personally think that's a really snobby frame of thinking, or perhaps that's just me interpreting you entirely wrong.. do share on what you did mean though, because I'm intrigued, how are Children the victims?

ebixa82

prinz wrote: »

Sure why stop at €10 and why stop at one employee... you realise that every employee doing a bit of thieving from Tesco's or the likes is putting other employees job's on the line?

I wasn't condoning it. I was just stating how certain people might justify it.

Not every employee will steal. However a certain proportion will. It is human nature unfortunately and something that the likes of large supermarkets factor into the costing of their products.

BTW How are those who steal putting others jobs on the line??

stovelid

Used to help myself to my groceries from a collage job I worked in that amongst other things paid me buttons and made me finish a shift alone after being held up at gunpoint.

I wouldn't do it now but I've zero shame whatsoever about having done it.

Pyr0

Another day another box of stolen pens!

prinz

ebixa82 wrote: »

BTW How are those who steal putting others jobs on the line??

When you are the manager of a store and that store is losing €xxxx amount every month due to theft by staff who do you think headoffice threatens?

Not to mention the security staff who are obviously not doing their jobs if they cannot see staff pocketing stock.

Sheeps

It makes too much financial sense to stop stealing from work. I work in a shop so I usually discount(steal) all my groceries.

jokettle

They took away our stationary cupboard last year

I use the printer for personal letters, I've had things faxed from the secretary's office, and once I accidentally brought home a fork from the common room. I don't think it's morally reprehensible. I do have several thousand euro's worth of equipment for my use here, but I don't plan on taking any of it with me when my contract runs out.

Well, maybe one of the external hard drives. It's a terabyte, after all!

sbsquarepants

Not much worth stealing here. If there was, I probably would!

Oblomov

Irish shop workers are the worst shoplifters. Light-fingered retail staff are helping themselves to €167m in goods and cash a year, the worst rate in Europe, a global survey has found.

While Ireland ranked 11th out of 22 countries in Europe for shoplifting, it was worst for employee theft, according to the research by the UK’s Centre for Retail Research.

Its report surveyed 21 retailers in Ireland with a total of 358 stores, and estimates that all Irish shops lost €453m, or 1.38% of annual sales, from what the industry describes as “shrinkage” — stock losses from crime or waste expressed as a percentage of retail sales.

Employee theft accounted for 36.8% of shrinkage in Ireland, the highest rate in Europe. While retailers estimated that shoplifters were responsible for 40.6% of their losses and stole €183.9m worth of items, thefts by shop workers cost €166.7m. Across Europe, the average amount stolen by dishonest employees was 19.8 times higher than that snatched by shoplifters.

“It’s a sector where people can be unhappy because it’s hard and thankless work with low pay,” said Rowan Manahan, managing director of Fortify Services, a human-resources consultancy. “People in Ireland are not always particularly pleasant to shop assistants.

“But it’s also been said that the Irish have a delinquent gene and there could be the feeling that if solicitors and politicians are on the make, then why not.”

The proportion of Irish retailers experiencing shoplifting over the 12-month period increased by 39%. The recession is causing more crime in a sector already suffering from a slump in consumer demand, with Central Statistics Office (CSO) figures indicating that retailers experienced a 10% slump in sales in September from a year earlier.

Joshua Bamfield, director of the Centre for Retail Research and author of the study, said: “People are stealing more household items, such as bread and cheese, and retailers caught all sorts of people who’d never shoplifted before and were older and better dressed. Shoplifters looking to sell on goods take what’s in demand, of high value and easily sold on, such as razor blades, electronic books, perfume, cosmetics and Satnavs.

“Because music is relatively cheap now, they are concentrating on Blu-ray DVDs and DVD box sets of television series. This is even truer in the run-up to Christmas.”

Torlach Denihan, director of Retail Ireland, believes the increase in shoplifting is part of a wider trend of petty crime spurred by the recession. The gardai recorded 5,083 incidents of theft from shops during the third quarter of this year, up 13% from the first quarter of 2006, the peak of the boom.

The losses incurred by shops as a result of theft is equivalent to a tax on every Irish household of €348.91 a year, Bamfield said. “I don’t think our moral compass is any weaker than anyone else’s and the vast majority of employees are as honest as the day is long,” Denihan said. “Offences involving dishonesty are up and that’s a response to the recession. There are organised shoplifting gangs. But because of cumbersome rules of evidence, it’s challenging for the gardai to secure convictions. If there was greater willingness to convict, we could start to tackle it.”

Tesco Ireland is protecting foodstuffs such as packaged meat and cheese by attaching anti-theft security tags similar to those used for clothing and alcohol on a trial basis in its express outlets in Dolphin’s Barn, Talbot Street and Parnell Street in Dublin.

raah!

People steal music and tv from the internet all the time. Everytime they do that someone loses money.

So, apparently, for your common man, The justification for stealing something is "I can get away with it". So, those people who steal from the internet, and then go into work and everyday and do not steal, are none but the most base of cowards.

knird evol

There's some nice curtains in the offices here, and the poles and fittings are of reasonable quality.
Things to do list.........bring drill/screwdriver to work tommorow

28064212

raah! wrote: »

People steal music and tv from the internet all the time. Everytime they do that someone loses money.

Except that's not true at all. It's only true if they were going to buy it instead of downloading it, and that they didn't buy after listening to it

scientific1982

I used to work in a supermarket when I was a teenager and "borrowed" the odd ice cream. Looking back at it now, it was a scumbag thing to do. However, I was a scumbag and ice cream is tasty.

Aswerty

scientific1982 wrote: »

I used to work in a supermarket when I was a teenager and "borrowed" the odd ice cream. Looking back at it now, it was a scumbag thing to do. However, I was a scumbag and ice cream is tasty.

Worked a bit in a shop when I was in my teens as well, ate and drank the odd item but to my shame pocketed small amounts of money every now and then too. So I trump you on the teenage scumbag scale. I've grown up a fair bit since though and realised the error of my ways. Sometimes mistakes are worth while when we learn from them.

scientific1982

Aswerty wrote: »

Worked a bit in a shop when I was in my teens as well, ate and drank the odd item but to my shame pocketed small amounts of money every now and then too. So I trump you on the teenage scumbag scale. I've grown up a fair bit since though and realised the error of my ways. Sometimes mistakes are worth while when we learn from them.

Scumbag.

Sofiztikated

I used to work in a hotel in Dublin, I'll leave it unnamed.

Everyone stole, in one way or another. One of the really comfy leather business man chairs from the meeting rooms made its way into one of the guys car.

Bottles of wine, champagne, spirits all walked from the bars.

TV's, lamps, vacuums and beds walked out of the housekeeping stores.

Management were as bad as the staff. Noone said anything, as long as head office didn't know, everything was grand. And the union was strong with this one.

Tiddlypeeps

Oblomov wrote: »

Employee theft accounted for 36.8% of shrinkage in Ireland, the highest rate in Europe. While retailers estimated that shoplifters were responsible for 40.6% of their losses and stole €183.9m worth of items, thefts by shop workers cost €166.7m. Across Europe, the average amount stolen by dishonest employees was 19.8 times higher than that snatched by shoplifters.

How do shops decide how much of their missing stock was taken by staff or shoplifters?

Blazer

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

How do shops decide how much of their missing stock was taken by staff or shoplifters?

toss a coin or make it up..

Run_to_da_hills

Normally I wouldn't steal from my employers but in one instance I did.

I worked in an engineering shop in Boston during the early 90's, After two months I had a row with the boss and I decided to hand in my notice.

Coming towards the end of the week the Boss refused to hand me my back week. When leaving I deciided to fill my lunchbox with micrometers and other measuring equipment to the value of the discrepancy in my wages.

Rebelheart

phill106 wrote: »

Does stealing time, posting on boards.ie count?

How very true. It's the same as stealing money if you're being paid for that time.

ruffles91

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Normally I wouldn't steal from my employers but in one instance I did.

I worked in an engineering shop in Boston during the early 90's, After two months I had a row with the boss and I decided to hand in my notice.

Coming towards the end of the week the Boss refused to hand me my back week. When leaving I deciided to fill my lunchbox with micrometers and other measuring equipment to the value of the discrepancy in my wages.

lol.. fair play!

Aswerty

scientific1982 wrote: »

Scumbag.

You're so friendly. :pac:

sashafierce

This post has been deleted.

raah!

28064212 wrote: »

Except that's not true at all. It's only true if they were going to buy it instead of downloading it, and that they didn't buy after listening to it

So, say for example, I thought spending 2000 euros on some gold is a complete waste of money. But if I were to surreptitiously snatch said gold, reasoning that they would not have made any money from me anyway, then it's not stealing? Or not bad, or not whatever it needs to not be to make my statement untrue?

csm

No because they would then have lost the gold and couldn't sell it to someone else. For an mp3 file, it can just be copied at no extra cost to the producer, so if someone takes a copy without paying the producer is only losing profit if that person would have bought the item before stealing it.

raah!

Ok well, you are depriving the person of their profit. You're stealing the money from them. Regardless of whether or not they would be able to keep selling the thing, you are causing them to make less money.

If it's ok to just deprive fat cats of profit, then it's ok to deprive those fat cat's running one's place of work of profit.

Another example could be if someone made loads of copies of their book, and had them copied where the price was infinitesimally small. Does that mean it's ok to steal the book because it cost them nothing to copy it, and they will not lose any money when you steal it? Again doesn't this mean it's ok to steal things if the people who own them don't need them, and the losses they suffer from those things being stolen are negligible with respect to their profits.

dotsman

raah! wrote: »

People steal music and tv from the internet all the time. Everytime they do that someone loses money.

So, apparently, for your common man. The justification for stealing something is "I can get away with it". So, those people who steal from the internet, and then go into work and everyday and do not steal, are none but the most base of cowards.

raah! wrote: »

So, say for example, I thought spending 2000 euros on some gold is a complete waste of money. But if I were to surreptitiously snatch said gold, reasoning that they would not have made any money from me anyway, then it's not stealing? Or not bad, or not whatever it needs to not be to make my statement untrue?

I don't think you understand the basics of economics here. Can I suggest you study concepts such as fixed, step, variable * marginal costs as well as "cost of opportunity" etc before repeating what some muppet forces you to watch at the start of every dvd?

Downloading copyright material for personal consumption is not stealing.

TimeToShine

dotsman wrote: »

Downloading copyright material for personal consumption is not stealing.

Well then it's off to Limewire/PirateBay/Isohunt for the night...