"no, I'm actually an athiest"

oppenheimer1

MrStuffins wrote: »

That says it all really :rolleyes:

Well you could try and engage in debate instead of being so condescending.

MrStuffins

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Well you could try and engage in debate instead of being so condescending.

I have been. Haven't you been reading?

Turtwig

PAULWATSON wrote: »

Deep, deep thinker! I'd have thought that your millions and millions of years of evolution would have sorted everything out, no need for any medicine.

Evolution doesn't have to be beneficial to our health. The common question people ask is why didn't evolution make us live longer? There are genes that we have identified that make people live longer so one should wonder why Natural Selection didn't favour these genes over the other ones. The answer is simple, NS favours reproduction not health. Surivival is provided purely on the basis to reproduce. If a gene let's you live long enough to reproduce and gives you an advantage at getting a mate then that gene will be favoured over other genes. Even if that gene subsequently leads to you dying at a younger age.

George C Williams, used the example of a gene that causes your bones to heal quicker. It would give you excess calcium and be advantageous to you because healing bones quicker would make you more durable and resistant. However, what if that exact same gene also deposited calcium into the arteries of your heart leaving you destined to die at age 120 regardless. Even though the gene would kill you at 120, the fact that it favours survival to reproduce would mean that gene becomes selected and passed on generation by generation.

Cystic fibrosis is a well known example of whereby evolution doesn't always have your best interest in heart. If you have just one gene of CF you are immune to Cholera and it is believed have a high resistance to TB. However, if you have 2 CF genes then you have the condition known as CF that causes so much hardship to so many people. Yet because NS only favours reproduction, it doesn't care that a slight proportion of a gene pool experience ill effects as long is the gene is passed on, NS doesn't care how long the human that passed on that gene lives for. Another similar example is resistance to malaria and sickle cell disease. One gene is a person immune to malaria, two genes leaves you prone to a having a fatal blood clot that will kill you.

ya-ba-da-ba-doo

I can't understand how anyone now does not agree with evolution.

I don't even like when people using the word 'believe' when talking about evolution, it's not some sort of story tale! It's backed up by scientific evidence ffs! Watch a documentary or read a book about it!

Documentaries on Charles Darwin and Evolution

oppenheimer1

Dudess wrote: »

But if you don't believe in god, then you're bound to dismiss it - and to consider yourself more realistic and less deluded than those who fervently believe in god. It might be hard not to take offence at that, but it's ultimately just a difference in opinion, which people are entitled to have.

Yes you can dismiss it, but there is no need for the condescending attitude of some atheists. Its almost like evangelical atheism. Live and let live and keep ones opinions to ones self. This is especially when anothers belief has no impact on your life.

Is there any point in telling a faithful person there is no God, no afterlife and talking what little hope they have?

Chorizo

MrStuffins wrote: »

I love when people use this old Chestnut. "sure didn't they used to believe The Earth was flat?"

Seriously dude..........

Fine want some more. The earth the centre of the universe, the sun the centre of the universe. Europe the edge of the world. More recently p=np

Seriously DUUUUDE

MrStuffins

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Is there any point in telling a faithful person there is no God, no afterlife and talking what little hope they have?

Yes, because it's the truth! the whole "religion is comforting" thing is a cop-out.

Sure, the other side of the coin, they are told if they don't adhere to the beliefs of the church that they will burn for all eternity. Ridiculous!

Sure not being alive won't matter to them after they die. After all, it never mattered to them for the millions of years before they were born!

Stercus Accidit

Atheists seem smug because religion is just so f*cking retarded, it baffles any sane person observing it from the outside.

Religion is an awful thing and brings out some of people's worst traits, and by far the worst people I have ever met were the most religious, its a cop out for human decency and empathy.

And the OP is an example of a much worse trend, bitterness towards those that have rejected their oppressive ideas, and are better off and happier for it and this thread is the result, venom spouted at a 'group' whose only common trait is not following his superstition, and labelling them all the same.

Who is claiming to be the beloved creation of an omnipotent being and who knows the true nature of good and evil and working towards eternal life and happiness in a magic realm, and who is the smug one?

MrStuffins

Chorizo wrote: »

Fine want some more. The earth the centre of the universe, the sun the centre of the universe. Europe the edge of the world. More recently p=np

Seriously DUUUUDE

So, by your logic, because peopple in the past (allegedly, the flat earth thing is a myth) believed in things that turned out not to be true, that everything we now believe is not true?

Don't be silly!

Donkey Oaty

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

. Live and let live and keep ones opinions to ones self. This is especially only when anothers belief has no impact on your life.

In principle, yes - but in practice, there are things going on around us that we have to speak out against if we believe anything at all.

Take abortion: are you in favour of freedom of choice for the mother or against? Are you in favour of the health worker to act acording to their conscience, and should they be hired accordingly?

These are not simple issues in a society where many people disagree with you.

krudler

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Yes you can dismiss it, but there is no need for the condescending attitude of some atheists. Its almost like evangelical atheism. Live and let live and keep ones opinions to ones self. This is especially when anothers belief has no impact on your life.

Is there any point in telling a faithful person there is no God, no afterlife and talking what little hope they have?

Except religion DOES have an impact on peoples lives whether you want it to or not, want a drink in a pub on Good Friday? nope (except here in Limerick, thats how we roll :pac: )want to send your kid to a non secular school even though they havent been baptised? nope.

I'm shocked someone hasnt trotted out the "if you're an athiest why celebrate Christmas" line yet.

Turtwig

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Yes you can dismiss it, but there is no need for the condescending attitude of some atheists. Its almost like evangelical atheism. Live and let live and keep ones opinions to ones self. This is especially when anothers belief has no impact on your life.

Is there any point in telling a faithful person there is no God, no afterlife and talking what little hope they have?

I'm sure many atheists would happily keep their opinions to their selves, but religion does have a lovely habit of pushing itself into your face everywhere you go. I mean seriously, I wanted to learn about biology having largely ignored it at secondary school. Instead I found that some aspects of it were distorted, disputed and utterly dishonestly represented by some religious groups. It was almost like a catalyst from turning a deist with your an attitude similar to yours, to one who will openly criticise religion and not have any crises of conscience when doing so.

I still respect religion, but I don't respects its belief that it should be allowed to say what it wants and no one criticise it because that's offensive. You can criticise Fianna Fail to people who support that party, yet when it comes to Catholicism pointing out criticisms about the Catechism is deemed offensive.

With regards to God giving people hope, I'm sorry but would you allow a heroin addict to stay on dope on the grounds that it was providing them happiness? If the person is dying then yes I'll respect that, but if the person is alive they should be able to stand up and defend what they believe in, not just proclaim you can't ask those questions because it's offensive.

Ickle Magoo

Chorizo wrote: »

I have done research. I can not find evidence that evolution can DEFINATELY be the case. I mean 100%. No disputes. Thats the point im trying to make. I (personally) can not believe something that is not proven true. This is why i have asked for a link. As i would love to find out. Im sure evolution is probably true. Just cant say for definate.

The reason for this is that all the way through history people have been led to believe something is true, ie, the Earth is flat. Then it is disproven.

And here by the way.

http://science.jrank.org/pages/3278/Heliocentric-Theory.html

EDIT: And by all means prove me wrong. Here to learn not argue.

There are no proofs out-with mathematics - everything else deals in probability & likelihood...so if you are waiting for proofs with regards to any scientific theory you will be waiting a very, very long time. A scientific theory is a culmination of work, often over a long time and by many people, which despite being picked apart by those most knowledgeable on that topic has withstood models and questioning and remains falsifiable.

Now, there is always the chance that something will happen that will blow apart everything we know & now file under "theory of relativity" and the same can be said for evolution but it's the best answer we have to date given the evidence we have studied to date - and both have stood the test of time thus far.

oppenheimer1 wrote:

Yes you can dismiss it, but there is no need for the condescending attitude of some atheists. Its almost like evangelical atheism. Live and let live and keep ones opinions to ones self. This is especially when anothers belief has no impact on your life.

No impact on my life? I'm not even safe in my own home from religious people trying to peddle their own brand of crazy - and don't get me started on the school system here or theists campaigning against equality legislation! I'd be feckin delighted if everyone kept their opinions to themselves! Let's not forget it wasn't very long ago that atheists would have been deemed heretics and killed for daring to give a descenting voice - I hardly think theists can bleat about atheists sharing their views since the world has had to listen to theists bang on about theirs & demanding a say in how society is run from the days of worshipping thor right up to present day! :pac:

NoQuarter

ya-ba-da-ba-doo wrote: »

I can't understand how anyone now does not agree with evolution.

I don't even like when people using the word 'believe' when talking about evolution, it's not some sort of story tale! It's backed up by scientific evidence ffs! Watch a documentary or read a book about it!

Documentaries on Charles Darwin and Evolution

To be fair its by far the lesser of the two evils.

As I said, im an avid athiest, a pretty big science buff, love astronomy etc etc but the problem I have with evolution (and i dont refute it, i just havent studied it enough) is that I think that even though the evidence is solid, the human race itself just has so much to advance still that I wouldnt be surprised if there was another explanation that we cant see yet due to lack of technology. And ive watch many documentaries on darwin, dawkins and evolution!

TL;DR - dunno if were smart enough to know THE answer to that secret yet.

MrStuffins

krudler wrote: »

I'm shocked someone hasnt trotted out the "if you're an athiest why celebrate Christmas" line yet.

Because Christmas is awesome! I love Christmas. The church has allowed me and all of my family to take time off all at the same time, and we are able to get together and have fun in a way we never do at other times of the year, and buy each other presents.

I don't celebrate the festival as such, but i take advantage of all the good things it brings

scientific1982

PAULWATSON wrote: »

These days, it seems everyone is tearing about the place mouthing off about "being an athiest".

Is this some sort of snobbish "new, new Ireland" thing that has passed me bye?

No bible basher myself, however I don't ever want to be confused with an athiest. I don't pride myself on "the scientific method", or believe in evolution for that matter.

One thing always bothered me about evolution, according to the theory the people around you are the fittest "best of the best" after two million years of dog eat dog. Now looking at this lot, what must the prototype have been like, a right clown I'd say.

(paedo this, paedo that, blah, blah, catholic church, blah, had enough, blah, superstition, blah, we're so educated, blah.)

Are you a smug little athiest?

Im not a smug little atheist. Im a big ****ing arrogant, smug atheist.

oppenheimer1

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

In principle, yes - but in practice, there are things going on around us that we have to speak out against if we believe anything at all.

Take abortion: are you in favour of freedom of choice for the mother or against? Are you in favour of the health worker to act acording to their conscience, and should they be hired accordingly?

These are not simple issues in a society where many people disagree with you.

Taking abortion, this is a Roman Catholic issue and has nothing to do with a belief in God(s).

(My opinion though: given that I'm a male its unlikely I'll ever have to get one. As for the health worker, their obligations as staff should be spelt out to them and if they have a problem with that they should seek employment elsewhere)

oppenheimer1

MrStuffins wrote: »

Yes, because it's the truth! the whole "religion is comforting" thing is a cop-out.

Sure, the other side of the coin, they are told if they don't adhere to the beliefs of the church that they will burn for all eternity. Ridiculous!

Sure not being alive won't matter to them after they die. After all, it never mattered to them for the millions of years before they were born!

Can you prove the non-existance of God?

MrStuffins

NoQuarter wrote: »

To be fair its by far the lesser of the two evils.

As I said, im an avid athiest, a pretty big science buff, love astronomy etc etc but the problem I have with evolution (and i dont refute it, i just havent studied it enough) is that I think that even though the evidence is solid, the human race itself just has so much to advance still that I wouldnt be surprised if there was another explanation that we cant see yet due to lack of technology. And ive watch many documentaries on darwin, dawkins and evolution!

TL;DR - dunno if were smart enough to know THE answer to that secret yet.

This is a great point.

However, if you REALLY read into Evolution, you will see that it's pretty much solid! And our advances will allow us to answer questions we have yet to answer yet about Evolution (there are some out there).

also, about The Big Bang.

having said that, we could wake up tomorrow and Yahweh will be standing in the middle of the Atlantic telling us to be good and that Evolution is bull!

zuroph

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Can you prove the non-existance of God?

Can you present any evidence?

MagicMarker

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Can you prove the non-existance of God?

Can you prove the non existence of the fairy sitting on my shoulder?

cypharius

Seeing as this thread has moved on to the annoying Evolution "Debate", I may as well say it.

Lenskis e.coli experiment. Case closed.

JohnathanM

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Can you prove the non-existance of God?

Can you prove that the universe was not created by fluffy pink unicorns from the planet Norris?

MrStuffins

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Can you prove the non-existance of God?

Oh God!

Oh God oh God! Where's Patrick Stewart when you need him?

You are saying there is a God, is to you to prove it!

I have a house made completely of cheese situated on Jupiter!

Prove that i don't! :rolleyes:

Turtwig

People here have been saying that evolution hasn't been 100% proven, others are saying it has; it hasn't. Science doesn't prove anything absolutely, it still hasn't been 100% proven that the Earth is smaller than the Sun. Or that Ice turns into water when melted. Science doesn't deal in proofs, yet what we can say is that it seems beyond reasonable doubt that the Sun is larger than earth, and in that sense it can be regarded as colloquial fact. Evolution can also be regarded as a colloquial fact, there is a debate alright, but not the kind of debate anti-evolutionists would like lay people to think there is. Scientists still debate mechanisms or aspects of evolutionary theory, what they don't doubt is that organisms changed over time via various selection processes. Anti- evolution is purely driven by people who think their holy books written thousands of years ago are to be taken literal and as a fact. Ask most modern day theologians about Exegesis and they'll tell you that parts of the bible are a poem and metaphor, not a fact. In fact, most modern day theologians accept evolution because it's quite simply a part of reality.

oppenheimer1

krudler wrote: »

Except religion DOES have an impact on peoples lives whether you want it to or not, want a drink in a pub on Good Friday? nope (except here in Limerick, thats how we roll :pac: )want to send your kid to a non secular school even though they havent been baptised? nope.

I'm shocked someone hasnt trotted out the "if you're an athiest why celebrate Christmas" line yet.

No it appears you have more of a problem with the historic influence of the Catholic Church rather than someone having a belief in a superior being.

This isn't a threat bout the Catholic Church, but one about the dismissive attitude atheists have towards theists.

Ickle Magoo

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Can you prove the non-existance of God?

Until the day that someone can prove the existence of a god, then in terms of evidence it's up there with unicorns and the loch ness monster. I'm not sure how or if it's even necessary to actively disprove the existence of something that cannot be shown to exist...especially when the lack of evidence proffered by the opposition does the job better than any atheist argument ever could.

MrStuffins

cypharius wrote: »

Seeing as this thread has moved on to the annoying Evolution "Debate", I may as well say it.

Lenskis e.coli experiment. Case closed.

Amen!

JohnathanM

MrStuffins wrote: »

I have a house made completely of cheese situated on Jupiter!

In this market? You'll never shift it.

AudreyHepburn

I personally have no problem with athiesim itself. What I do have a problem with though is this attitude that being atheist somehow makes you superior to some-one of faith and gives them right to be condescending and insulting.

Many times on boards I've seen athiests argue that they are smarter and more enlightened than believers only to turn around and redicule and insult the believers. If you truely are enlightened and intelligent then you would respect other people's beliefs and not look down on them for it.

I've lost track of the amount of times I've seen words like ignorant, retarded, naive, deluded and weak-minded levelled at believers and honestly it makes me want to scream sometimes. Athiests often complain that their beliefs are not respected and that they get a lot of hassel from believers but really if you aren't going to respect the believer's views you can hardly expect them to respect yours.

As for the complaint about religion being pushed in your face, ,many athiests do exactly the same thing, but think it's ok for them because they are superior. They are as guilty of trying to convert people as those they critise for trying convert them.

These are the things that really really get my goat when it comes to athiesim.

Believe in whatever you want to believe but do not think that gives you that right to look down on and belittle on those who don't share your beliefs.