How Bout Dem Bears?

Realt Dearg Sec

He he...

http://www.theonion.com/articles/jay-cutler-ill-be-the-first-person-to-admit-we-nee,37422/

EDIT: The list of suggested articles that refer to Jay Cutler over the years are brilliant. My favourite one is ""You Idiots Would Like That" Jay Cutler says to Bears fans after completing pass"

padraig_f

I looked this up, it was Emery actually who hired Tucker and DeCamillis.

Phil Emery, Architect of a Trainwreck

kennyb3

padraig_f wrote: »

I looked this up, it was Emery actually who hired Tucker and DeCamillis.

Phil Emery, Architect of a Trainwreck

Very weird - I was just coming on to ask what Bears fans think should happen now. Like we all know we're rubbish but how to fix it (properly). As in;

Emery - what's the feeling on him? Is he a GM or just a scout trying (badly) to be a GM? I read he hired Tucker via Bobby Depaul and was going to mention this.

Trestman - gone?

Cutler - try trade? stick?

Draft - which way to go?


Basically what would you do? If you had the choice.

I kind of feel a bit vindicated over the whole Cutler & Emery thing. It's not a told you so or anything and not directed at anyone, just that I took a good bit of flack here and nfl forum uk for not buying everything hook, line and sinker.

Anyway it's all a bit sad for me how it's turned out, I didn't expect so badly, but I did feel we'd be no more than ordinary. The whole organisation is going about things the wrong way.

What scares me most is how long it takes for change in our organisation. We might have Trestman another 18 months, we might have Emery another 2/3 years.

I'm not dead against Emery being here (though as I say that McClellin playing and Tucker being DC flash across my mind and I want him run out of Chicago) but his actions from here on are extremely important if we don't want to end up in a 5year slump imho.

His construction of a roster is horrible as well and that is overlooked. ST's has been ignored - we'd no punt return till about a week before the season and then the coverage unit kept changing etc. So much to be concerned about really.

And the Cutler contract - that f'ucking contract, all because he wouldn't franchise him as they couldn't move the cap hit between the years if required. Trying to be too smart again. F'ucking down right dumb is more like it.

SameOleJay

The thing is I guarantee we could get rid of Jay for a pick or two (Calling Lovie!!) but I don’t sense any appetite to do that. If Emery is unwilling to give up on Shea what are the chances he lets go his 100 million QB? We really only need to hold Jay one more year, the cap hit after that isn’t all that prohibitive (I believe 13 million or so).

Another thing you have to factor is that the McCaskeys are pretty tight with the wallet. So anyone getting notions on a big splash on Jim Harbaugh can probably forget that… he’s going to be the top paid coach in football if he leaves and it won’t be in Chicago.

So where to next. Mel is gone. Joe D is gone. I figure either both Emery and Trestman go or neither. I suspect it’ll be the latter.

Hopefully we have a top 5 pick to compensate for this massacre. I suspect it’ll be closer to 10.

kennyb3

Reading packers thread here - 6 TD's in 6 possession for Rodgers in first half. Only second time it's ever been done. On 7th drive they took field goal when on our 1 yard line.

When you read it plain and simple like that you realise every single coach on defensive side of the fall should have been let go within an hour of the game ending.

Oat23

SameOleJay wrote: »

Another thing you have to factor is that the McCaskeys are pretty tight with the wallet. So anyone getting notions on a big splash on Jim Harbaugh can probably forget that… he’s going to be the top paid coach in football if he leaves and it won’t be in Chicago.

This is the biggest crime of all. The on-field product is horse sh*t and you know full well they won't spend a little to improve it despite the Bears profiting close to $300m most years.

Remember how tight they were with Lovie after 2005 when he won coach of the year? Negotiations were canned because their offer was so bad and they were forced to re-open them only after he brought the team to the Superbowl the next season. He was the lowest paid coach in 2005 & 2006.

kennyb3

Oat23 wrote: »

This is the biggest crime of all. The on-field product is horse sh*t and you know full well they won't spend a little to improve it despite the Bears profiting close to $300m most years.

Remember how tight they were with Lovie after 2005 when he won coach of the year? Negotiations were canned because their offer was so bad and they were forced to re-open them only after he brought the team to the Superbowl the next season. He was the lowest paid coach in 2005 & 2006.

And i'd say it's no co-incidence that we then ended up with some chump from the CFL who kicks FG's on second down rather than with a reigning coach of the year.

kennyb3

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Thinking about it, I don't see any benefit in coaching changes right now. Get rid of Tucker, he gets replaced by...I dunno...but certainly just a stop gap, so what difference does it make? Replace Kromer? Dunno why you'd bother, he isn't the play caller on O anyway. Replace Trestman? If he goes, then you either have Kromer or, god help us, Tucker as your HC for a while. That isn't going to be the case next year so why bother? I think you play it out, see if any players or staff redeem themselves during the remainder of the year, and THEN blow it up, save for anyone who has shown some promise.

The problem for me is, I like Trestman, he seems like a good guy, he clearly has considerable ability as a quarterback coach and last year seemed to show promise as a play caller, and his book shows him to be a great person for understanding what makes people tic and what motivates them as people as well as players. But he also hasn't changed things up on offense this year, hoping the same ideas will work the same away in a different year, and we've gotten predictable. He's clearly a soft spoken kind of calm guy, which is grand (I'm not a huge fan of histrionics in managers, or at least I don't think it equates to any kind of passion that people often say is absent in quieter men), except when a bollocking is needed, that's not there. He is a big fan of the idea that people need to be respected and encouraged and blah de blah, but this is a tough sport, and sometimes people need to be tough. The worst of it is, I wonder has he the toughness to be willing to tell someone like Mel Tucker (who is all passion and anger on the sideline by the way, for all the fcuking good it's done us) that he's not good enough and he needs to go. Regarding the playcalling, my suspicion is that he's a little too clever for his own good, and when there is a clear need for, say, a long passing play, he'll second guess himself, start to get cute, and go for a screen or something. He shares that second-guessing, look how clever I am tendency with the man who hired him. In fact, hiring Trestman was itself an example of that very thing, shouldn't be a shock that he has the same habit himself.

So yeah I like him and I would hope that this whole debacle wont end his career because he would be a great QB coach for anyone, but it's harder and harder to see how anyone can look at him for a third year. A regression would be bad enough after the moves they've made in trades and FA, but a meltdown of such monumental proportions? Who'd be shocked if we had a top five draft pick next year?

I'd counter this with:

- You don't want this losing habit becoming too infectious. Yes I want a good pick and I was the first one here saying I wanted it to get worse so it could get better but it's about bad enough now. Losing by 30/40 points could destroy every player on the team long term.

- I don't want Mel Tucker anywhere near our young drafted players anymore. He can probably teach Fuller to become bad. Get anyone to come in and progress them - teach them a thing or two. String a few performances together to build on for next season. Also you can then assess players under diffferent co-ordinator scheme? Are they still s'hit? If so cut them.

- It send a message - to the players and any incoming coach that they don't stand for shi't. If they roll over and let this continue? It also send a message to the fans they ain't blind and retarded.(which i'm beginning to doubt). Honestly if it was me i'd be cutting some players too if I was phil just to make a point.

- You might hit on someone you want to keep. You've little to lose anyway.

If we scapegoat a co-ordinator in the offseason not much will change next year. This runs way way too deep, I hope people see this.

Edit: actually f'uck it, 2 more losses please - a loss at home to mccown amd lovie with lovie carried off Schwartz style and then everyone will be gone, or so I'd imagine. This needs to be blown up good and proper. And when I see Shea mcclellin lining up at slb I get reminded that nothing may ,ugh may happen. Nuclear option please

kennyb3

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2014-11-12/chicago-bears-bad-contracts-jay-cutler-jared-allen-brandon-marshall-phil-emery-decision-making-trestman

Just look at those cutler romo stats. Holy f'uck.

kennyb3

From CSS

Tuckers Resume:

-- Fired after just one season for coaching the 26th ranked Defense as DC with Cleveland Browns
-- That defense only accumulated 17 total sacks - 31st in NFL
-- Went on to Jaguars where his defenses were ranked 23rd, 28th, 6th and 30th in yardage
-- His Jaguar teams gave up on average 25 PPG while averaging just 18 sacks per year
-- Was hired by Phil Emery / Trestman in an act of desperation when Rod Marinelli took a demotion just to get away from them
-- Worst Rushing defense in history of the Bears - 2013
-- Worst overall defense in history of the Bears yardage - 2013
-- Worst scoring defense in history of the Bears - 2013
-- Most points allowed in a half ever by a Bears team -2014
-- Most points allowed over a 2 game stretch by any team in NFL in 91 years - 2014
-- Most TD's allowed in a half in Bears history - 2014
-- Most games with 50 or more points allowed by any DC in NFL history - 3 (2013, 2014)
-- Worst PPG average for any defense in Bears history - 30.8 PPG - worse than the historically bad 29.9 (2013)
-- Highest QB rating for opposing QB's over 2 game stretch in NFL (151.2) Brady and Rogers
-- Has been responsible for coaching only ONE defensive player to get to the NFL Pro-bowl (Tim Jennings 2013)
-- His defense allowed 4th down, last minute TD to the rival Packers to clinch playoffs and eliminate Bears
-- Lowest team sack average for a DC over 6 seasons (since sacks became an official stat) - 19
-- Most TD's allowed over a 2 game stretch in history of the Bears - 12
-- Highest aggregate opponent QB rating for a season in history of team (currently 107.3)
-- Most points allowed in a season (2013)
-- Turned 2 HOF candidate RDE's into garbage (Allen and Peppers)
-- Largest PPG ranking swing in history of team (went from 3rd in NFL to 31st)
-- Lowest blitz per pass play percentage in the NFL
-- D has forced rival Packers to punt exactly 1 time in 2 full games while Rogers is under center.


-- Still Employed as your 2014 Chicago Bears Defensive Coordinator!

SameOleJay

The good news is there’ll be no changes in the defensive personnel this weekend. This loyalty will embolden Shea, DJ et al and we’ll witness the All-Pro displays we’ve all been waiting for.

Just you wait and see.

Realt Dearg Sec

SameOleJay wrote: »

The good news is there’ll be no changes in the defensive personnel this weekend. This loyalty will embolden Shea, DJ et al and we’ll witness the All-Pro displays we’ve all been waiting for.

Just you wait and see.

It seems to be a mental block among all of the staff from Emery down that when things are going wrong, the solution is to be found in not changing things. Emery long ago ruled out any change at qb, trestman has repeatedly said that the solutions will be found among the coaches he has, and every week we're assured that things are going great in training. Tucker this week said "the answers are in the building" (I doubt he was referring to his p45). When our back up linebackers out performed our starters against Atlanta they flat out dismissed any suggestion of displacing their starters. Every week we see the exact same awful play calling that has destroyed us before. It's so infuriatingly bullheaded, "you gotta help us doc, we've tried nothing and we're all out of ideas!"

padraig_f

kennyb3 wrote: »

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2014-11-12/chicago-bears-bad-contracts-jay-cutler-jared-allen-brandon-marshall-phil-emery-decision-making-trestman

Just look at those cutler romo stats. Holy f'uck.

I don't understand how they calculate Cutler played only 12 games between '11 and '13 (?), but I had a look at the career stats and Romo's are probably better than Cutler's (better completion percentage, TD/INT ratio, yards-per-play, QBR).

They do make a good point that the structure of the contract wasn't that smart when you compare it to the ones that came after, like Kaepernick's and Dalton's.

Kaepernick's was especially smart from the 49ers, contained $2m/year performance incentives (I think all-pro and reaching NFC championship game), and also allows the 49ers to get out pretty much any time they want.

Cutler's not going anywhere though now, that ship has sailed. Whatever the argument was for going another direction last season, now that you've got dead money involved, it would never make sense to go another way for another year or two.

kennyb3

padraig_f wrote: »

I don't understand how they calculate Cutler played only 12 games between '11 and '13 (?), but I had a look at the career stats and Romo's are probably better than Cutler's (better completion percentage, TD/INT ratio, yards-per-play, QBR).

It's an average over the 3 years. E.g. romo - 39Int/3yrs = 13 figure or Cutty games (10,15,11/3yrs).

I assume they went that road to show what an average season based on 3 years looks like.

padraig_f

kennyb3 wrote: »

Emery - what's the feeling on him? Is he a GM or just a scout trying (badly) to be a GM? I read he hired Tucker via Bobby Depaul and was going to mention this.

Trestman - gone?

Cutler - try trade? stick?

Draft - which way to go?


Basically what would you do? If you had the choice.

Tucker and DeCamillis def gone.

Emery I probably give another chance to. I don't think 2.5 years is a long time for a GM. He's messed up on the coaching picks, but that's an inexact science. In hindsight it looks bad, but at the time there were question marks about all the candidates (e.g. if Arians was such a sure thing, why did no-one else give him a head-coaching job til he was 59?).

Trestman, I dunno. I'm kind of 60-40 towards firing him. It depends a bit on available candidates. If there's a good one available like Harbaugh I'm more inclined to do it, and if not, maybe you give him one more year with a new DC.

But if he's fired, I wouldn't argue against it either. DaBears blog had a good rant the other day:

Monday Monologue – Bears are Poison [AUDIO]

and says at the end 'if you're not sure where the poison is, clean house'. I can't really argue with that.

I kind of feel a bit vindicated over the whole Cutler & Emery thing. It's not a told you so or anything and not directed at anyone, just that I took a good bit of flack here and nfl forum uk for not buying everything hook, line and sinker.

Anyway it's all a bit sad for me how it's turned out, I didn't expect so badly, but I did feel we'd be no more than ordinary. The whole organisation is going about things the wrong way.

I thought you were being too pessimistic in the off-season (though I appreciate the different points of view, we don't want to be all cheer-leaders). Turns out you probably weren't pessimistic enough.

kennyb3

padraig_f wrote: »

Tucker and DeCamillis def gone.

Emery I probably give another chance to. I don't think 2.5 years is a long time for a GM. He's messed up on the coaching picks, but that's an inexact science. In hindsight it looks bad, but at the time there were question marks about all the candidates (e.g. if Arians was such a sure thing, why did no-one else give him a head-coaching job til he was 59?).

Trestman, I dunno. I'm kind of 60-40 towards firing him. It depends a bit on available candidates. If there's a good one available like Harbaugh I'm more inclined to do it, and if not, maybe you give him one more year with a new DC.

But if he's fired, I wouldn't argue against it either. DaBears blog had a good rant the other day:

Monday Monologue – Bears are Poison [AUDIO]

and says at the end 'if you're not sure where the poison is, clean house'. I can't really argue with that.



I thought you were being too pessimistic in the off-season (though I appreciate the different points of view, we don't want to be all cheer-leaders). Turns out you probably weren't pessimistic enough.

Yeah hard to believe i wasn't pessimistic enough.

I'm prob okay with keeping emery to give him a second coaching hire but he has to hit on it. He also has to stop spending so much in FA, not give stupid money to 32yr olds like Allen, just stop the whole band aid thing and actually focus on youth and rebuilding. He needs to learn how to construct a roster too (balance, special teams units not coming together a week before season start etc).

The McClellin issue and Cutler contract mean i'd only want a sniff of more bad decisions to see him gone too. Very very thin ice.

Trestman I 110% want gone - it's obvious nobody is playing for him and he is too soft. It's not just the D that stinks it's the whole team and he's responsible. Needs to be gone. Not changing coach would be a disaster - there would be no real change so we'd be similar to thsi year only with a slightly better D. You can't expect a D co-ordinator to magically overhaul a team when the head coach has no interest in defence. Trestman is completely the wrong type of character and fit Chicago imho.

On Arians - no such things as a sure thing. However he was known as a very good OC. He's just never been given a head coach job until taht colts season - understandable, loads of good co-ordinators never get the chance. But, and this is a big but, he was given the chance when Pagano got ill - and how did that turn out?

He took a team that was 1-2 with losses to the Jags & bears to 9-3. He got coach of the year. Yet wasn't good enough for us? Surely there were signs there he was very good.

Yeah he was no sure thing - but you get paid to make decisions and get them right. Emery got it wrong - bad decision. History judges you. Trestman = bad pick, Arians = missed excellent pick. We wouldn't mind missing Arians if we'd got someone even half way average but we didn't.

We hired Mr.CFL - as i showed before of all the coaches hired that year only Bradley has a worse record. We've gone from 10-6 to 8-8 to ??? (6-10?). I don't understand how anybody can give Trestman the benefit of the doubt when looking at it like that. He is responsible for this whole team. Every aspect of it is failing and failing badly.

In summary it was a terrible hire. Hard to imagine anyone doing a worse job tbh.

So emery failed spectacularly on that decision - end of for me. The very least Trestman should have been able to do is fix cutler, even a little. Even on that he's failed.

The job is too big for him and he's in way over his head. Watch that first half again - after a bye if you ever have any doubts. He has no answers - where were they Sunday night? Where will they be next season. Will he feed the players magic beans and it will all turn around?

(sorry not having go at you, just you got ask yourself what exactly will change. You can't have blind faith. You got to look at every aspect of the team - not just hang your hat on those few great offensive performance last season (mainly under McCown anyway). The same offense was blasted off the field by Philly in a must win.)

Realt Dearg Sec

kennyb3 wrote: »

Yeah hard to believe i wasn't pessimistic enough.

I'm prob okay with keeping emery to give him a second coaching hire but he has to hit on it. He also has to stop spending so much in FA, not give stupid money to 32yr olds like Allen, just stop the whole band aid thing and actually focus on youth and rebuilding. He needs to learn how to construct a roster too (balance, special teams units not coming together a week before season start etc).

The McClellin issue and Cutler contract mean i'd only want a sniff of more bad decisions to see him gone too. Very very thin ice.

Trestman I 110% want gone - it's obvious nobody is playing for him and he is too soft. It's not just the D that stinks it's the whole team and he's responsible. Needs to be gone. Not changing coach would be a disaster - there would be no real change so we'd be similar to thsi year only with a slightly better D. You can't expect a D co-ordinator to magically overhaul a team when the head coach has no interest in defence. Trestman is completely the wrong type of character and fit Chicago imho.

On Arians - no such things as a sure thing. However he was known as a very good OC. He's just never been given a head coach job until taht colts season - understandable, loads of good co-ordinators never get the chance. But, and this is a big but, he was given the chance when Pagano got ill - and how did that turn out?

He took a team that was 1-2 with losses to the Jags & bears to 9-3. He got coach of the year. Yet wasn't good enough for us? Surely there were signs there he was very good.

Yeah he was no sure thing - but you get paid to make decisions and get them right. Emery got it wrong - bad decision. History judges you. Trestman = bad pick, Arians = missed excellent pick. We wouldn't mind missing Arians if we'd got someone even half way average but we didn't.

We hired Mr.CFL - as i showed before of all the coaches hired that year only Bradley has a worse record. We've gone from 10-6 to 8-8 to ??? (6-10?). I don't understand how anybody can give Trestman the benefit of the doubt when looking at it like that. He is responsible for this whole team. Every aspect of it is failing and failing badly.

In summary it was a terrible hire. Hard to imagine anyone doing a worse job tbh.

So emery failed spectacularly on that decision - end of for me. The very least Trestman should have been able to do is fix cutler, even a little. Even on that he's failed.

The job is too big for him and he's in way over his head. Watch that first half again - after a bye if you ever have any doubts. He has no answers - where were they Sunday night? Where will they be next season. Will he feed the players magic beans and it will all turn around?

(sorry not having go at you, just you got ask yourself what exactly will change. You can't have blind faith. You got to look at every aspect of the team - not just hang your hat on those few great offensive performance last season (mainly under McCown anyway). The same offense was blasted off the field by Philly in a must win.)

Well we don't actually need to wait till next year to see if anything will change. Every week he has promised changes will happen and we play the exact same vanilla defense and an ultra conservative version of a WCO (forte has been decent until lat week but all the check downs are inflating his stats). The micro stuff (play calling) and the macro stuff (willingness to make coaching changes) are indicative, it simply won't change. I'd especially agree that if Emery is to have a future he needs to abandon the win now attitude. That article you posted lambasted his drafting but I think he's done pretty well. Mcclellin is a bust but the article doesn't give him credit for long, who was regarded as a bad choice at the time and has been brilliant. We can go into the drafts in detail but he's clearly a good scout, so if he hires right, and focuses on the draft instead of free agency, then I think fans would be happy enough to watch for signs of progress. The hate for him is his own doing, his fa moves indicate a win now attitude, and I don't think even the wildest opportunist was thinking of a superbowl tis year or next.

kennyb3

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Well we don't actually need to wait till next year to see if anything will change. Every week he has promised changes will happen and we play the exact same vanilla defense and an ultra conservative version of a WCO (forte has been decent until lat week but all the check downs are inflating his stats). The micro stuff (play calling) and the macro stuff (willingness to make coaching changes) are indicative, it simply won't change. I'd especially agree that if Emery is to have a future he needs to abandon the win now attitude. That article you posted lambasted his drafting but I think he's done pretty well. Mcclellin is a bust but the article doesn't give him credit for long, who was regarded as a bad choice at the time and has been brilliant. We can go into the drafts in detail but he's clearly a good scout, so if he hires right, and focuses on the draft instead of free agency, then I think fans would be happy enough to watch for signs of progress. The hate for him is his own doing, his fa moves indicate a win now attitude, and I don't think even the wildest opportunist was thinking of a superbowl tis year or next.

I agree - nothing has or will changed under this coaching team. As i said they are not much short of buying magic beans for the players and feeding them to them in hope and desperation. I want every coach in this building they keep referring to sent on their way.

I also agree emery seems like a good talent evaluator - he does swing a bit and miss. We've been through all the bad picks before but it does look like he's at least a good bit better than Angelo - however that's a low bar. Time will tell if he's good, good or just good compared to what we are used to.

Still if he can't hire the right coaches (Trestman, Tucker & Joe D all failing), learn to write off draft picks (McClellin), make the right contract decisions at the right price (Cutler) and hit on any free agents we do sign (massive props for Young but Allen & Houston have failed. As have signing LBers like Anderson last season & Williams).

I am in agreement with you - I'm happy to give him the benefit of so long as:

A) He acknowledges it's a rebuild and stop using FA to patch work things
He fires the entire coaching team
C) Cuts McClellin, Williams and all the other rubbish we have immediately after the season (preferably before really)
C) the next coach hire is good and not a smartest person in the room hire.

kennyb3

Personally if I'm emery i start the whole process now. I change HC and DC immediately.

I bring in someone who will start the youth with an eye to next year - let's see what we have. Mix of Bostic, Jones, Sharpton and Greene at LBer for example for rest of season.

I start working behind the scenes on new head coach (letting him select staff). Start focusing on the draft and a path forward.

I hire a legal team to see if I can get out of the cutler contract (joking!)

Realt Dearg Sec

kennyb3 wrote: »

I change HC and DC immediately.

I know we've disagreed on this already but I think if the idea is to blow it up and start next year (notwithstanding the damage Tucker could do to Fuller etc) a change right now could be bad. What if it worked out and we got to 7-9 or something? The time we drafted McClellin we won a game (was it the Vikings?) that brought us to 8-8 and dropped our draft pick from 11 to 19 or thereabouts. I'm sure my numbers are wrong.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not someone who will cheer on our opposition for the sake of a draft pick. I do want us to win Sunday. I'm just saying if I'm Emery, and I know MY job is safe, and I want my future coordinators and HC to get a fair crack of the whip, I could see an advantage in letting the lads flush themselves down the jacks. I doubt that's what his rationale actually is, of course, but there again I don't really know at this point what anyone's rationale is in HH.

kennyb3

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

I know we've disagreed on this already but I think if the idea is to blow it up and start next year (notwithstanding the damage Tucker could do to Fuller etc) a change right now could be bad. What if it worked out and we got to 7-9 or something? The time we drafted McClellin we won a game (was it the Vikings?) that brought us to 8-8 and dropped our draft pick from 11 to 19 or thereabouts. I'm sure my numbers are wrong.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not someone who will cheer on our opposition for the sake of a draft pick. I do want us to win Sunday. I'm just saying if I'm Emery, and I know MY job is safe, and I want my future coordinators and HC to get a fair crack of the whip, I could see an advantage in letting the lads flush themselves down the jacks. I doubt that's what his rationale actually is, of course, but there again I don't really know at this point what anyone's rationale is in HH.

Ah yeah that's fair enough. I can see it from both sides really.

I still think if I was going your way i'd be ordering the older LBers benched so you at least get a better idea of what you're going to be left with, even if it is Tucker coaching and playing vanilla. If the likes of Greene aren't going to pan out you've more holes to fill - you need to know soon, not next year.

And I should of added above I'd keep drafting defence - a proper MLB, some safties, a DE. I'd let the offence muddle along with cutler there. Then if he still produces nothing over next 2 years you go new direction and focus on offence then.

If i could trade him I would, but that won't happen. We got ourselves into one ****ty situation with him.

Realt Dearg Sec

kennyb3 wrote: »

Ah yeah that's fair enough. I can see it from both sides really.

I still think if I was going your way i'd be ordering the older LBers benched so you at least get a better idea of what you're going to be left with, even if it is Tucker coaching and playing vanilla. If the likes of Greene aren't going to pan out you've more holes to fill - you need to know soon, not next year.

And I should of added above I'd keep drafting defence - a proper MLB, some safties, a DE. I'd let the offence muddle along with cutler there. Then if he still produces nothing over next 2 years you go new direction and focus on offence then.

If i could trade him I would, but that won't happen. We got ourselves into one ****ty situation with him.

Well certainly with the players there needs to be a policy of playing the younger players. Especially at linebacker where we already know they have some potential there's no excuse. The weird thing, regarding the offense, is we already know they are capable if being fantastic, so yeah, no reason, even now, to dismiss the idea that they can ever be great again.

Question for anyone who knows: Arians was supposedly told that he would have to accept Marinelli as a condition of the job (which is idiotic but whatever). Did Marinelli walk afterwards or do we know why he wasn't kept on or what? Tucker can only be explained as a panic hire, although that doesn't explain him still being there.

Anyway as someone on wcg said we need a coach who'll have them playing with fire in the belly not fire in the dumpster. And that comes back to drafting also. 35 free agents means very few people likely to be really playing for the team or feeling like being a bear is meant to mean something, which it always should for the core of the team at the very least.

kennyb3

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Well certainly with the players there needs to be a policy of playing the younger players. Especially at linebacker where we already know they have some potential there's no excuse. The weird thing, regarding the offense, is we already know they are capable if being fantastic, so yeah, no reason, even now, to dismiss the idea that they can ever be great again.

Question for anyone who knows: Arians was supposedly told that he would have to accept Marinelli as a condition of the job (which is idiotic but whatever). Did Marinelli walk afterwards or do we know why he wasn't kept on or what? Tucker can only be explained as a panic hire, although that doesn't explain him still being there.

Anyway as someone on wcg said we need a coach who'll have them playing with fire in the belly not fire in the dumpster. And that comes back to drafting also. 35 free agents means very few people likely to be really playing for the team or feeling like being a bear is meant to mean something, which it always should for the core of the team at the very least.

Marinelli walked because lovie was fired, they were pretty close. I'm not sure what gave emery the impression marnelli would stay, I doubt it was marnelli anyway.

He took a lesser job - dline coach just to get away. It's not like he got an amazing offer or anything.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-01-17/sports/ct-spt-0118-bears-trestman-chicago--20130118_1_phil-emery-bears-marc-trestman
Bit there about it, confirming he wanted trestman to go his own way - I.e. Never intended to stay under trestman.

Also that article reminded me of trestman having everyday planned out up to Super Bowl for phil in interview - so funny now.

Realt Dearg Sec

kennyb3 wrote: »

Marinelli walked because lovie was fired, they were pretty close. I'm not sure what gave emery the impression marnelli would stay, I doubt it was marnelli anyway.

He took a lesser job - dline coach just to get away. It's not like he got an amazing offer or anything.

I knew he was a Lovie guy but I always assumed that if his being there was a condition of the job that at some point he and Emery had agreed on this being the case. Maybe not, of course, but presumably he only left one trest was hired? Otherwise it wouldn't have come up with Arians, and they wouldn't have gone to the special offers bin to pick up Tucker. Dunno how good Marinelli would have been under a new HC, but it's hard to believe the wheels would have come off the wagon. But it's surprising because clearly Emery had faith in him.

kennyb3

http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/bears/post/_/id/4682485/tucker-wont-change-much-on-defense#more

Confirms trestman knew feck all about the tucker hire - met him at the interview - bit weird no. That's what happens when your up in cfl - no contacts.

Arians for example knew exactly who all his staff would be.

Realt Dearg Sec

kennyb3 wrote: »

http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/bears/post/_/id/4682485/tucker-wont-change-much-on-defense#more

Confirms trestman knew feck all about the tucker hire - met him at the interview - bit weird no. That's what happens when your up in cfl - no contacts.

Arians for example knew exactly who all his staff would be.

So much of that article/interview seems to telegraph (as compliments) all of the things that have failed in Tucker's D. The need for communication on plays and with veterans is hilarious in light of the first Nelson TD Sunday, where first Briggs tried to check out of a play only for it to all break down (Rodgers said he saw three different defensive plays before the snap, must have been what he was laughing about), and then later after Briggs explained this tucker in his presser said it wasn't a communication issue (as an aside, he also said he didn't know what went wrong, he'd have to look at the tape. Trestman says that a lot too. I really wish they wouldn't keep admitting they can't read the game as it's happening).

Ugh, I dunno...if the sight of our biggest rivals throwing a party, whooping it up and laughing their arses off at our ineptitude on prime time tv doesn't elicit a reaction Sunday, they should all admit football isn't for them. Short of cracking out beers for the lads they couldn't have shown any less respect, and who on earth would blame them? Rodgers earned like a million in bonuses in one half of football. I'd be laughing too.

kennyb3

http://chicagosuntimes.com/sports/jay-cutler-is-regressing-and-the-numbers-confirm-it/

Good read.

kennyb3

Rarely get on at the weekend with family time etc but will catch the game.

Want to say in advance I hope we lose, sorry if anyone doesn't like that but it's ultimately for the best. I ve watched us finish mid rank, many a season with mid rank draft picks and nothing change.

It's because I love this team I wAnt this loss, ultimately we all want to see this team challenge and see a Super Bowl win (was 1 for our only ever one). Wanting us to lose doesn't make anyone any less of a fan so never be afraid to say it - in this case it's a means to an end.

Insanity : doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Tuckers quotes are hilarious about no chsnge, just getting better. This coaching staff is insulting the publics intelligence.

Talk to you all Monday, have a good one.

Badabing

Bears win, didn't see game but by reports vikings were /are a poor team

SameOleJay

We're still terrible. Vikings might have the worst offence in the league and that's what did for us.