Shooting goats...?

tfox

Where do I stand on shooting goats ...? Farmer friend of mine has asked me to deal with 4 feral goats on his land, any problems with me shooting them ....?

Tackleberrywho

tfox wrote: »

Where do I stand on shooting goats ...? Farmer friend of mine has asked me to deal with 4 feral goats on his land, any problems with me shooting them ....?

only issue is disposal of them, and the SMELL!!

dan17

ya they sure stink

tfox

I know, thats why I cant eat goat, anything that smells like the animal it comes from isn't right !! And goats smell of goat p*** !! :mad:

Cass

If i remember correctly there is no season as they are not a protected species and therefore no minimum calibre either. However as with all things you want a quick, clean kill so a deer calibre rifle would be the solution.

Just a word of warning. Be sure they are wild/feral. As in NO OWNER. Its amazing how a "wild" goat suddenly becomes a "beloved family animal" when its been shot.

tfox

140gr of angry 6.5 will be headed their way !! Have shot plenty of goats in Scotland with .243 so not a novice to it !!

Birdnuts

tfox wrote: »

I know, thats why I cant eat goat, anything that smells like the animal it comes from isn't right !! And goats smell of goat p*** !! :mad:

Is that the case for both sexes?? - I thought only the Billy-Goat stank

PS: Can wild goats be hunted with dogs??

Tackleberrywho

Birdnuts wrote: »

Is that the case for both sexes?? - I thought only the Billy-Goat stank

PS: Can wild goats be hunted with dogs??

Billy goat stinks, but If I smell cottage cheese i get the same smell.
Nanny Goat may smell if she has been cavorting with billy goat.

Any time I hunted goat I burned my clothes after!

Cass

Never meant to imply that, so sorry if it came across as such. It was more a general statement for all.

Tackleberrywho

ezridax wrote: »

Never meant to imply that, so sorry if it came across as such. It was more a general statement for all.

imply what?

Years since I shot goat. I had a few heads, gave them away, even after boiling they stank!

There are a few feral herds near me, I could not be bothered with them. No hunting involved as the smell leads straight to them

Cass

Was replying to tfox, there Tack.

tfox wrote: »

........... so not a novice to it !!

From the time i went to reply to the post and the time i actually replied and posted there were 2 other posts, yours and Birdnuts so it looked like i was responding to your post.

Tackleberrywho

ezridax wrote: »

Was replying to tfox, there Tack.

.

There are a few goats up your way, I saw them a few years back

tfox

ezridax wrote: »

Never meant to imply that, so sorry if it came across as such. It was more a general statement for all.

God no dont worry bout it !! was taken as a general statement

The Big Fella

I heard one time that goat is the most consumed meat in the world! Its hard to believe that with the smell of em. Theres no shortage of em in the midlands!:D I seen a herd of over 25 out on the bog during the summer.

tfox

The Big Fella wrote: »

I heard one time that goat is the most consumed meat in the world! Its hard to believe that with the smell of em. Theres no shortage of em in the midlands!:D I seen a herd of over 25 out on the bog during the summer.

I heard that too. But I suppose when you think of all the middle eastern countries, sparse farmland, goats will live on nothing

Sparks

The Big Fella wrote: »

Its hard to believe that with the smell of em.

Stick them in a pit barbecue for sixteen hours, or in a strong curry, and you might change your mind

Tackleberrywho

The Big Fella wrote: »

I heard one time that goat is the most consumed meat in the world! Its hard to believe that with the smell of em. Theres no shortage of em in the midlands!:D I seen a herd of over 25 out on the bog during the summer.

I hate the taste of them
I really hate the smell of them.

they are everywhere in the midlands.
i've shot a few down the years,

I would like to make a Bodhrán out of one, although many people don't know most bodhrán's are made out of slow greyhounds lol

Tackleberrywho

Sparks wrote: »

Stick them in a pit barbecue for sixteen hours, or in a strong curry, and you might change your mind

Must be a slurry pit
Sparks, if you ever want Billy the kid i can supply

I've a mad cousin with a herd of them on his land.

he thinks they are lucky!

meathstevie

tfox wrote: »

I heard that too. But I suppose when you think of all the middle eastern countries, sparse farmland, goats will live on nothing

Aye, and the best way to keep it sparse is to keep them feckers on it...

deerhunter1

ezridax wrote: »

If i remember correctly there is no season as they are not a protected species and therefore no minimum calibre either. However as with all things you want a quick, clean kill so a deer calibre rifle would be the solution.

Just a word of warning. Be sure they are wild/feral. As in NO OWNER. Its amazing how a "wild" goat suddenly becomes a "beloved family animal" when its been shot.

Correct on that, got caught like that some years ago:mad:

kildare.17hmr

deerhunter1 wrote: »

Correct on that, got caught like that some years ago:mad:

Howd ya get out of that one???

Tackleberrywho

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

Howd ya get out of that one???

Cash Pound notes as they say!

Many say they own them if on their land, and that they are not theirs if they are on a neighbors land!

So make sure they are feral!

deerhunter1

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

Howd ya get out of that one???

Many years ago I had a "contract" with a forestry crowd to cull goats on their land and surrounding area, land owners in the area also gave me permission to pursue goats that strayed to their land. I was getting a nice few shillings per goat shot and it kept me fit during summer months. Little did I know that there was one contrary land owner with land in the vicinity but lived elsewhere that claimed some of the goats I shot were "Pedigree" goats that belonged to him. No-one had seen this guy for years, may have been living in England. The sh-t hit the fan. Solicitors got involved, I was interviewed, then heard no more about it, dont know what transpired from it, but I was slowly faded out from being called back.:(

Deroluma

I guys, I'm new at this so please apologies if i done this wrong.
According to my research on goat hunting , as long as the goat in question is wild or ferral then it's a vermin, and like the wildboar in England it does not have any protection as it's not recognise by the government as game or vermint , therefore the ferral goat can be shot with any caliber including shotgun. On a personal note I think they should be treated with the same respect as deer so the bigger caliber is best, I use hornady .270 sst 130 gr.
As far as the meet is concerned I like it .
If you know where I can go and get some goats please let me know.

patsat

Up in an area I shoot there is a herd of goats seen every now and again, one fella that I shoot with reckons one of the goats has a gold medal head.

If so how would you go about measuring this one the goat is shot??

Also does anyone here have pics of medal goats they shot?

tfox

Deroluma wrote: »

I guys, I'm new at this so please apologies if i done this wrong.
According to my research on goat hunting , as long as the goat in question is wild or ferral then it's a vermin, and like the wildboar in England it does not have any protection as it's not recognise by the government as game or vermint , therefore the ferral goat can be shot with any caliber including shotgun. On a personal note I think they should be treated with the same respect as deer so the bigger caliber is best, I use hornady .270 sst 130 gr.
As far as the meet is concerned I like it .
If you know where I can go and get some goats please let me know.

I'm afraid the above mentioned goats have been dealt with

Deroluma

Hi there for pictures of big goats you could visit www.amplehunting.com
The gold medal are awarded on a point system and it's to do with the girth and length of the horns, I think but not sure but you may have to bring them or send them away in order to get the certificate.
In Australia they go for the distance between the tips of the horns and in Europe it's the length , although that depends on the ripe of horn, ie straight back or corkscrew type.
I have one at 30 inches long and I'm getting it mounted.
Hope that helps

patsat

Thanks Deroluma

Does anyone know where I would go to a head graded/ measured? I'm based on the border of Limerick and tipp.

Grizzly 45

Unlesss wild goat becomes a recognised trophy animal here you will have a job getting it recognised anywhere.Usually it is up to a national hunting body in the country which deals with deer,goats or antelope species to recognise and award a medal for the trophy.
Which we do not have here.:(

Feargal as Luimneach

Feral goats are a threat to the terns on Dalkey Island. Some people don't want them removed because they look nice:mad: They are non-native/vermin on the main Island. If they were removed a good sized tern colony could be established on the main Island.
http://www.birdweb.net/ternleaflet2010.pdf

Deroluma

I see what you mean about some people liking them, there is a hole section on boards.ie about them and how nice they are and also they are supposed to have a vet looking out for them. Unless the government wants them gone that's a dead duck.
Still interested in hunting them if anybody know of any farmer looking to get rid on one or two.

Deroluma

Hi patsat
www.cic-wildlife.org they may put you on the wright track on how to get your trophy measured and if there is a place near you.
Hope that helps

poulo6.5

I was out on one of my permissions this evening for a strole and I spotted a herd of about 12 goats. I am looking forward to popping one or two of them but I think I will ask around some of the farmers first.

I watched them for a while over the space of about 2 hrs and they seamed to be roaming freely.

They varied in color from grey,White,black and brown and variations of White/brown, grey/black and so on.
Is that normal for wild goats. I would imagin if they were belong to someone that they might all be the same or similar. Like other goats i'v seen that are penned in and obviously belong to someone

Should I treat them as vermin and try eliminate the whole herd or should I just take one at a time like I do with deer. I will be using my .308 to cull them and I will be shooting them with a quick clean kill in mind.

Tackleberrywho

poulo6.5 wrote: »

I was out on one of my permissions this evening for a strole and I spotted a herd of about 12 goats. I am looking forward to popping one or two of them but I think I will ask around some of the farmers first.

I watched them for a while over the space of about 2 hrs and they seamed to be roaming freely.

They varied in color from grey,White,black and brown and variations of White/brown, grey/black and so on.
Is that normal for wild goats. I would imagin if they were belong to someone that they might all be the same or similar. Like other goats i'v seen that are penned in and obviously belong to someone

Should I treat them as vermin and try eliminate the whole herd or should I just take one at a time like I do with deer. I will be using my .308 to cull them and I will be shooting them with a quick clean kill in mind.

Feral can be all colours.
I've shot Brown, black, black and white, white, fawn etc.
Although, TBH I could not be bothered now.
The fu*kin smell man
Nobody will eat them.

There is a pub i know of where there is the skull of a coat that has horns the width of a good sized curtain rail.

I have a few herds near me, nobody owns them when they invade aturnip field and are eating the tops, however if yo8u shoot them on some people land they suddenly become pets.

And honestly, there is very little skill involved in hunting them.
I would recommend that if someone wanted to consider deer stalking that goat stalking would be a good starting place though.

However the caveat being, once they are shot, you have a smelly carcass on your hands...... They only man to take him is the Knacker

Birdnuts

I know of one lad who has nailed a few young ones with his mixed pack of terriers and elk hound/lurcher types while out hunting fox,rabbit etc.:)

Tackleberrywho

Birdnuts wrote: »

I know of one lad who has nailed a few young ones with his mixed pack of terriers and elk hound/lurcher types:)

Without sounding all high and mighty, I prefer to shoot goats, quick and simple.

They are a tough animal, give any dog a run for its money, a big puck is not to be trifled with.
I know a man who kept a big puck out with sheep to ward away foxes and dogs, it worked!

weldersmask

hunting goats with lurchers is illegal, disgusting and irresponsible and exceedingly cruel:mad::mad::mad:

Birdnuts

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

Without sounding all high and mighty, I prefer to shoot goats, quick and simple.

They are a tough animal, give any dog a run for its money, a big puck is not to be trifled with.
I know a man who kept a big puck out with sheep to ward away foxes and dogs, it worked!

I appreciate what you are saying but a good hunting dog will always pick out the easiest target ie. the young, old or sick:)

Birdnuts

weldersmask wrote: »

hunting goats with lurchers is illegal, disgusting and irresponsible and exceedingly cruel:mad::mad::mad:

Thats what I was trying to find out - so if it is illegal then I will pass the message on since I was not aware myself that it was illegal

PS: These are "wild" goats we are talking about here, not pets or domestic stock. Like any wild ungulate they will naturally be prey for the likes of wolves, bears, Lynx, Leopards and other medium to large predators as is the case in large parts of Europe. So IMO hunting them with dogs is no more "cruel" then what happens in nature anyway. Indeed healthy ecosystems the world over depend on such things:)

It wasn't me!

weldersmask wrote: »

hunting goats with lurchers is illegal, disgusting and irresponsible and exceedingly cruel:mad::mad::mad:

It certainly wouldn't be my bag, but under what law is it illegal?

Birdnuts

It wasn't me! wrote: »

It certainly wouldn't be my bag, but under what law is it illegal?

I have my doubts too since I have the impression that they are considered vermin in many cases as Feargal pointed out earlier and have no official protection or hunting season - which would put them in the same category as Foxes, mink, muntjac deer etc.

Deroluma

You guys are lucky, were I am goats are scarce and nobody seems to know of any. I went on the cooleys to see if my luck would change but no luck the goats never recovered after the foot and mouth outbreak.

kildare.17hmr

weldersmask wrote: »

hunting goats with lurchers is illegal, disgusting and irresponsible and exceedingly cruel:mad::mad::mad:

Id also like to know what makes it illegal/where it says its illegal, link?

weldersmask

can't find anything that gives any kind of legislation , i know shooting them while emotive for some people is legal , however hunting if you can call it that with a pack of terriers and lurchers would end you very quickly in court for annimal cruelty and rightly so :mad::mad::mad::mad:

tfox

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

Id also like to know what makes it illegal/where it says its illegal, link?

Me too. A friend of mine regularly hunt a herd locally with lurchers, has never managed to catch any as they just drop off down a cliff face where the dogs wont follow ! But I know he'd be upset to think he was breaking the law !!

kildare.17hmr

weldersmask wrote: »

can't find anything that gives any kind of legislation , i know shooting them while emotive for some people is legal , however hunting if you can call it that with a pack of terriers and lurchers would end you very quickly in court for annimal cruelty and rightly so :mad::mad::mad::mad:

i dont see the differance between hunting a fox with a dog and hunting a feral goat with a dog

EDIT who told you it was illegal??

It wasn't me!

weldersmask wrote: »

can't find anything that gives any kind of legislation , i know shooting them while emotive for some people is legal , however hunting if you can call it that with a pack of terriers and lurchers would end you very quickly in court for annimal cruelty and rightly so :mad::mad::mad::mad:

The problem is there's no way to adequately define it as such that isn't subjective. While dogs are used to kill foxes and even in some cases assist in the tracking and dispatch of wounded deer, it's difficult to claim that because the animal in question is a goat that it's cruel. A dog capable of cleanly arresting and dispatching an animal the size of a deer would certainly be capable of cleanly killing a goat, an unprotected species with no clearly defined minimum standard of rifle used to hunt them. Cruelty is entirely dependant on the event, rather than the theory. If the animal is killed quickly, it's not cruel, whether by dog or bullet. If I shoot a deer in the guts, it'll die, but no matter how big a round I use, it's going to be a cruel death. If it's an accident, then it's not cruelty, but if I do it on purpose, it's a wanton disregard for the wellbeing of the animal. Likewise if I use a dog to hunt an animal which isn't capable of dealing with it efficiently, it's cruelty, while if I use a dog capable of a clean dispatch, then even should a complication arise that prevents an absolutely clean dispatch, and provided a follow-up measure is taken to minimise suffering, it's difficult to consider the act itself cruelty, as it's impossible to demonstrate such wanton disregard on my part for the wellbeing of the animal that it could be shown I didn't act in good faith.

weldersmask

ok before this turns into a slanging match i'll put my credentials on the line i shoot all legal quarry on this island ,and i have kept working terriers and lurchers for years ,no-one told me it was illegal but common sense in this case i thought would prevail , a good big dog fox is easily dispatched by a lurcher that knows its game ,a goat is considerably bigger than any fox probably 3x the weight at least, no dog on this island(and i have kept bull x greyhounds in the past ) is going to kill that with one bite it'd be a messy drawn out buisness and very noisy too goats are vocal creatures !!!!let alone a pack of terriers the same principle that makes it wrong to hunt deer with a lurcher i thought would have applied to goats
using a tracking dog for deer is very different to using a lurcher for 'lurchering'
i bet a pound to a penny if you ended up in court for hunting and catching a goat with a pack of terriers and lurchers it'd end up in a conviction against you

kildare.17hmr

I understand what your saying but i ment with regards the law i see no differance between the two, no season and no min cal. surly a good deerhound would be well able to take a goat quick enough?

It wasn't me!

weldersmask wrote: »

ok before this turns into a slanging match i'll put my credentials on the line i shoot all legal quarry on this island ,and i have kept working terriers and lurchers for years ,no-one told me it was illegal but common sense in this case i thought would prevail , a good big dog fox is easily dispatched by a lurcher that knows its game ,a goat is considerably bigger than any fox probably 3x the weight at least, no dog on this island(and i have kept bull x greyhounds in the past ) is going to kill that with one bite it'd be a messy drawn out buisness and very noisy too goats are vocal creatures !!!!let alone a pack of terriers the same principle that makes it wrong to hunt deer with a lurcher i thought would have applied to goats
using a tracking dog for deer is very different to using a lurcher for 'lurchering'
i bet a pound to a penny if you ended up in court for hunting and catching a goat with a pack of terriers and lurchers it'd end up in a conviction against you

What about dogs like GWPs which are intended to be capable of bringing to bear and dispatching a deer? They'd be well capable, just as they are on deer.

weldersmask

your splitting hairs;) your talking about a dog that is trained to track and dispatch a WOUNDED and maybe dying annimal and that is still a grey area afaik
the op was referring to a pack of terriers and lurchers