Bring Back Bertie ?

The Raven.

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Seriously, can you not see the contradiction in your own views ? On the one hand you expect me to take responsibility for the actions of and people within Fianna Fail, even those that I don't agree with or even voted against. You apply the principle of collective responsibility here and I have no problem with that. . .

There is no contradiction. You chose to vote for Fianna Fail and continue to support them regardless of what you vote against within the party. As long as you and your Fianna Fail and Green colleagues continue to do that you are individually and collectively responsible. I, on the other hand, chose not to vote for Fianna Fail, and I was misled by the Greens, therefore I am not responsible for their actions.

The same principle applies at a national level. We as a people overspent . . yes you can argue that the government didn't control us and I would agree with you. I would also argue that had the government controlled us better we would have replaced them with one who would have allowed us to keep spending.

What is all this about government ‘control’? If you are addressing me, why would I argue that ‘the government didn't control us’? I’m afraid I don’t see the government as something that should control us. They are paid by us, the taxpayers. They are there to serve us, not the other way round.

We as a people overspent and now we have to pay it all back. That does not mean that every single person overspent . . but collectively we did and collectively we are responsible.

You will never convince me of that.

Liam Byrne

hallelujajordan wrote: »

The people of Ireland got greedy. I don't usually like to generalise but I really believe that.

You're happy enough to generalise there. I find that confusing.

hallelujajordan wrote: »

I don't believe in 'punishing' political partied.

Your differentiation between "punishing" and "holding accountable" is massively different to mine.

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Because I think he is a better leader than the current Taoiseach

His track record and the resulting mess states otherwise, as does his complete disapproval by the majority of the country.

Crap and evasive as Cowen is, he's nowhere near as bad as Ahern.

hallelujajordan wrote: »

If you believe that he is 'the most devious, the most cunning of all' . . as some people on here constantly quote then maybe we need some of that cunning to dig ourselves out of this hole ..

That "cunning" is what landed us in this mess, speaking out of both sides of his mouth at once.

We need honesty, integrity, acceptability and hard work.

Bad and all as Kenny is, he's a million miles better than Ahern.

Ideally, it would be Shane Ross running the country - he has shown that he has the best interests of the country at heart, even when he has nothing to gain as a Senator from doing it.

He's actually the only politician I would accept telling me that there had to be cuts and that I had to accept some of the pain inflicted by the collective; despite knowing it was wrong and unfair, at least I could accept that it was in the country's best interests.

The Raven.

hallelujajordan wrote: »

I will remember that and thank you for acknowledging that although none of us can know exactly what was in Bertie Ahern's mind it is extremely unlikely that he meant that comment literally. . .

He said it with a straight face. What do you think he meant?

There are lots of reasons to criticise Bertie Ahern . . Some I agree with; some I don't but those who continually revisit this comment to score a political dig at Ahern are not showing any more sensitivity to the families and friends of suicide victims than he did. .

It is somewhat disingenuous to describe an honest criticism of Ahern as a 'political dig'. After all you started the thread about him for the purpose of debate.

As for 'not showing any more sensitivity to the families and friends of suicide victims than he did', you have a knack of stating the opposite of what is true. The Suicide Action groups were shocked by what he said, and that needs to be remembered.

hallelujajordan

Liam Byrne wrote: »

His track record and the resulting mess states otherwise, as does his complete disapproval by the majority of the country.

You may be right here but I don't believe that you have the right to speak for 'the majority of the country' . . . Remember, the majority of the country returned his government to office in 2007 when all of his personal financial issues were already on the tribunal table. . .

Liam Byrne wrote: »

That "cunning" is what landed us in this mess, speaking out of both sides of his mouth at once.

We need honesty, integrity, acceptability and hard work.

Bad and all as Kenny is, he's a million miles better than Ahern.

Really, we are where we are because of Bertie's cunning . . . I don't think even you believe that . . We are where we are because of bad economic policies that allowed consumers and developers inflate an unsustainable bubble . . nothing to do with Bertie's cunning (unless you want to talk about the fact that we now live in a peaceful Ireland - that did have a lot to do with Bertie's skills and cunning . .

Liam Byrne wrote:

Ideally, it would be Shane Ross running the country - he has shown that he has the best interests of the country at heart, even when he has nothing to gain as a Senator from doing it.

He's actually the only politician I would accept telling me that there had to be cuts and that I had to accept some of the pain inflicted by the collective; despite knowing it was wrong and unfair, at least I could accept that it was in the country's best interests.

Oh come off it . . Shane Ross has the best interests of the Sunday Independent at heart in almost everything he does . . . You don't see any conflict of interest when he sits on a finance committee during the week and writes about it in the newspaper at the weekend ? ?

raymon

Hallelujajordan

Have you read this article about your hero and great leader in the "Sindo" (as you call it ) today ???

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/fionnan-sheahan/fionnan-sheahan-ahern-says-hed-love-to-run-for-aras-but-ff-has-other-ideas-2331042.html

It ends with these 2 lines

"Living in his own deluded little universe, Bertie Ahern is still highly entertaining but gradually his adoring public is laughing at him, not with him.
What he can't see is the joke is on him."

Are you one of the last people in Ireland to see that this guy was a sponger and rogue and a very bad joke. He is still costing me money - as I pay my taxes to him for sitting in the Dail - skulking around the back benches . Him and Ivor shouldnt be in Oireachtas - they should be in Mountjoy .

I know you must have got excited reaing that terrible piece of journalism by John Drennan in last weeks Sunday Independent ..... good for you - Im glad you got excited about it , Im sure more of you FFers did too .

Liam Byrne

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Really, we are where we are because of Bertie's cunning . . . I don't think even you believe that . . We are where we are because of bad economic policies that allowed consumers and developers inflate an unsustainable bubble . . nothing to do with Bertie's cunning (unless you want to talk about the fact that we now live in a peaceful Ireland - that did have a lot to do with Bertie's skills and cunning . .

Oh wow! :rolleyes: In one paragraph you point out that I can't speak for everyone, and in the next you speak for me claiming that I don't believe what I believe. :rolleyes:

And all the while you're OK with blaming everyone else because you believe they have "collective responsibility".

I give up! I'm out! Continue on in your deluded denial if you want.

Guess it sums it all up nicely.....earlier you said that you believed "collective responsibility" included everyone; while lots of us challenged that definition, no-one was as arrogant enough to suggest that you couldn't possibly believe that.

Maybe if you get bored you can make up some more posts about how I'm responsible, along with what I think or believe, or write a thesis on why your beliefs should supercede mine (assuming, that is, that my beliefs are what I think they are and that you haven't a correction for me).

But one (two?) final word(s) on your despicable original suggestion before I leave.

NO WAY!

oceanclub

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Really, we are where we are because of Bertie's cunning . . . I don't think even you believe that . . We are where we are because of bad economic policies that allowed consumers and developers inflate an unsustainable bubble . . nothing to do with Bertie's cunning (unless you want to talk about the fact that we now live in a peaceful Ireland - that did have a lot to do with Bertie's skills and cunning . .

So you're seriously claiming that Bertie Ahern, who was Taoiseach from 1997 to 2008, had nothing to do with those "bad economic policies" during that period? It's nothing to do with him?

You, the same guy who's claiming that the entire country, including new-born babies, have collective responsibility for it?

My mind reeling, I'm now wondering does this mean that Bertie has less responsiblity than those new-born babies. Or perhaps you are prepared to be magnanimous and concede that perhaps they only have an equal responsibility.

I must admit it's interesting getting a peek into the mind of an uber-Fianna Failer; the last of the remaining faithful. This thread is turning into an anthropological study. I wonder how your arguments will work on the doorstep at the next election.

By the way, you appear to be under the delusious that Haughey's quote about Ahern was meant to be complimentary. Cunning is simply another term for "devious" - "skill employed in a shrewd or sly manner, as in deceiving; craftiness; guile." Haughey was referring to Ahern's ability to climb up the greasy pole and set up his Drumcondra mafia (now mercifully imploded).

P.

oh well , okay

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Remember, the majority of the country returned his government to office in 2007 when all of his personal financial issues were already on the tribunal table.

Again this just isn't factually correct . In fact it's patent nonsense .

Prior to the 2007 election Ahern held the famous teary eyed Dobson interview as a result of the times printing a story based on some leaked information from the tribunal . Ahern himself then made several statements to the dail and to the press proclaiming he couldn't wait to be questioned , he stated his accountant Dan Peelo had evidence/calculations that would blow the tribunal out of the water .

Ahern had free reign at this time on giving explanations as the tribunal had halted while the election campaign was underway .

The election was held on 24th May and the tribunal resumed on May 27th at which point the full extent of Aherns finances began to become apparent . Ahern then attended his first public hearing in September of that year and his explanations began to get more and more muddled .

On his first day of questioning the tribunal spent the morning outlining their dealings with Ahern thus far , it soon became apparent that Aherns claims that he couldn't wait to be interviewed were nonsense , he'd been stalling the tribunal since 2004 .

Whatever happened to his magic formula that would prove his innocence ? He ran to the high court to prevent the tribunal gaining access to it .

When the tribunal wished to question him on the contradictions between his dail and tribunal explanations what happened ? He ran to the high court to claim dail privilege .

In May 2007 the Irish public did not know about lodgements that equated to vast sums of sterling or dollars . They did not know about dinners where some ate and some didn't , about brown envelopes left in drawers or suitcases stuffed with cash left in closets . They didn't know a loyal secretary would be hung out to dry or that a dead solicitor would be so unprofessional as to organise a whip round to pay his own legal bill ! They didn't know that a man could spend way over the price of a normal house on cushions and curtains . They certainly didn't know that Ahern was such a dab hand at the race track .

The general public had part of the story prior to the election but only got the details at a later date . As is often the case with these things the devil is in the detail .

To say that all Aherns finances were out in the open prior to the 2007 election is rubbish .

Biggins

oh well , okay wrote: »

...To say that all Aherns finances were out in the open prior to the 2007 election is rubbish .

Speaking of expenses (as i posted in AH):

* He has full time use of a state car and full time driver to ferry him around Dublin and still Bertie Ahern gets paid on top of that, a "constituency travel allowance" since he stood down as taoiseach.

* Ahern gets additionally paid €2,500 national travel expenses, the same amount as other TDs in geographically small constituencies. This is on top of his annual salary as a deputy, cut to €92,500 a year, and his pension as a former taoiseach, which is €83,250 a year.

* He is entitled to two secretaries at expense allowance for each of 50,000 a year till 2012 - after that his qualification for secretaries is reduced down to one.

* He gets a mobile phone for life with an additional allowance of 5,700 a year for that. He does NOT have to produce paperwork for it.

* Ahern received severance pay worth €68,000 after he stepped down as Taoiseach.

* In addition, Ahern gets a miscellaneous expenses allowance of €5,000, again paid with his salary and with no need for receipts.

* Some €200,000 was spent by the Office of Public Works fitting out a suite of offices for Ahern after he stood down as taoiseach and vacated Government Buildings. The suite includes an office for Ahern, one for his secretaries, a bathroom, waiting room and storage area. The bill included furnishings, as well as crockery and cutlery.

* Bertie is so busy with his own personal business that sometimes he misses out on votes of national importance such as one last year on reforms to social security cut backs - he chose instead to travel (which I'm sure we all paid for) to Kerry for a book-signing session in Killarney (which by the way he got 400,000 advance from the publishers - and because he's a "writer", tax free laws apply!).

* Other present earnings come from a 2 newspapers for writing for them occasionally and in one case weekly, an international-property company directorship, the lucrative universal lecture circuit and being just a guest at dinners as well as a speaker!

raymon

What a sponger this man is !!!!:mad:

hallelujajordan

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Oh wow! :rolleyes: In one paragraph you point out that I can't speak for everyone, and in the next you speak for me claiming that I don't believe what I believe. :rolleyes:

And all the while you're OK with blaming everyone else because you believe they have "collective responsibility".

I give up! I'm out! Continue on in your deluded denial if you want.

Guess it sums it all up nicely.....earlier you said that you believed "collective responsibility" included everyone; while lots of us challenged that definition, no-one was as arrogant enough to suggest that you couldn't possibly believe that.

Maybe if you get bored you can make up some more posts about how I'm responsible, along with what I think or believe, or write a thesis on why your beliefs should supercede mine (assuming, that is, that my beliefs are what I think they are and that you haven't a correction for me).

But one (two?) final word(s) on your despicable original suggestion before I leave.

NO WAY!

I didn't say that you didn't believe it . . Only you know what you believe and as we explored earlier in the thread, just because you say you believe it does not mean that I and others will accept that as a fact. . . If you read back you will see that I said I dont think you believe it . .

Only you know what you believe but I can form an opinion based on what I can see. . . I can see from your posts that you have a good insight and understanding of what happened over the last 10 years . . Regardless of what you say I personally find it very difficult to believe that with your knowledge and understanding of our situation you believe we are in this situation because of Bertie Ahern's cunning ..

hallelujajordan

oceanclub wrote: »

So you're seriously claiming that Bertie Ahern, who was Taoiseach from 1997 to 2008, had nothing to do with those "bad economic policies" during that period? It's nothing to do with him?

Did you read the thread ? ? ?

hallelujajordan wrote:

Yes, I believe in accountability . . I've never tried to avoid it . . I believe that Fianna Fail are responsible for following a set of policies that got us into this situation. I've never said otherwise. . I believe that Bertie Ahern as Taoiseach has a level of personal responsibility as the leader of the government who made the wrong decisions. I've never suggested otherwise. . . I believe that I have a responsibility as a member of Fianna Fail. I've never tried to avoid that responsibility.

oceanclub wrote:

You, the same guy who's claiming that the entire country, including new-born babies, have collective responsibility for it?

Again, read the full thread and understand my views before you criticise them . .

hallelujajordan wrote:

. Liam Byrne asked if babies were responsible as a complete red herring . . I think its as ridiculous as you do (and if you read my other responses and didn't quote selectively, you'd see that)

oh well, okay wrote:

Again this just isn't factually correct . In fact it's patent nonsense .

Accepted and apologies. . I got the timings wrong. . A lot was on the table, including the information about Michael Wall and his house, but you are correct .. much of the other information came out in late 2007 / early 2008.

oceanclub

A letter to the beloved Ahern in a Galway paper is worth reading:

http://www.advertiser.ie/galway/article/30644


Quote:

Mr Bertie Ahern TD.

Dáil Eireann,

Leinster House,

Dublin 2.

A Chara,

I witness the daily spectacle of this country having its soul destroyed with a heavy heart. Why is this happening, who caused the problem and how did they cause it? I have many other questions too. As you are handsomely paid from the public purse I believe you owe me some answers. So here goes.

1) You were Taoiseach and implemented economic policies, which have driven the country to the brink of ruin and bankruptcy...

2) You arrogantly claim to have created the "Celtic Tiger" yet you refuse to acknowledge that much of the mirage was created as a result of massive increases in public debt and unsustainable levels of public expenditure. Why is this? Could it be that you did not have a clue how to manage an economy?

3) The lack of regulation in the banking system led to a corrupted financial system lauded by you as being the “best in the world" Why did you do this when this was obviously not the case? Were you covering something up?

4) Your claims to having attended UCD, and the London School of Economics has been proven false. Your only experience was as a clerk in the Mater Hospital with no formal financial or business qualifications whatsoever..

5) When challenged about potential economic problems you queried why those with legitimate concerns regarding the economy don't just go and commit suicide..

6) Why are you still unable to provide a tax clearance certificate to prove that you are tax compliant? As a businessman if I wish to get state contracts I need a tax clearance certificate. Why should you be any different? Do you consider yourself to be above the law?

7) Why have you refused to give proper explanations of monies you received to a tribunal established by yourself? Your claim that unexplained monies were "won on the horses" is a claim also made by convicted criminal John Gilligan for money that he too could not account for. Do you for one minute think that the general public believe this story? Do you even care?

8) This country has suffered hugely from your incompetent leadership, greed and the aggrandisement of a small group of your supporters, leaving the taxpayer to pay for cleaning up the mess. Yet you continue to enjoy numerous salaries, extra allowances, speaking fees, expenses, pensions, directorships, fully expensed state car for life and Garda drivers. You are reputed to enjoy the highest pension entitlements and allowances of any head of state in the Europe...

9) Revenues generated from your book enjoy tax-free status. Given your significant expense to the country especially as you spend practically no time in the Dáil do you think this is fair? Does this tax free status indicate that your book is a complete work of fiction?

10) Given your legacy and dubious ethical record do you really think you are a suitable candidate to become president?

In summary therefore I cannot understand why you get so much for contributing so little? In any other world you would have been dismissed for your incompetence, corruption and wanton profligacy. Why should people continue to pay for your greed, vanity and excess? This is your opportunity to set the record straight. If you can.

Yours sincerely,

A Betrayed Citizen

P.

Biggins

oceanclub wrote: »

A letter to the beloved Ahern in a Galway paper is worth reading:

http://www.advertiser.ie/galway/article/30644

Great find.
Everything nicely summed up

Edit: Just reading back again - I love the book "Fiction" bit Haha... :pac:

Classic! :cool:

The Raven.

According to Wikipedia:

Ahern was educated at St. Patrick's National School in Drumcondra and at St. Aidan's Christian Brothers in Whitehall. He received his third level education at the College of Commerce, Rathmines, part of the Dublin Institute of Technology. Ahern has claimed or it has been claimed by others in circulated biographies that he was educated at University College Dublin and the London School of Economics but neither university has any records that show Ahern was ever one of their students.

He worked in the Accounts Department of the Mater Hospital, Dublin but though a self-described accountant, as in a TV interview with Bryan Dobson in 2006 and radio interviews during May 2008 with George Hook and on his party's website, he never qualified as a member of any accountants association. The Irish Independent described him as an accounts clerk.

I just noticed that a couple of days ago. Typical of his ilk :rolleyes:!

Liam Byrne

The Raven. wrote: »

According to Wikipedia:



I just noticed that a couple of days ago. Typical of his ilk :rolleyes:!

Neither university has any records ?

Maybe Ahern was in charge of admissions, and dealt with them the same as he did Haughey's cheques and his own "dig-outs".

Darlughda

Gas thing it seems some of the FFs are trying to negotiate with the Bertie that it may not be a good idea him being the poster boy anymore and his nibs is still trying to ride it out, believing that we will all love him for 'creating' the celtic tiger boom years.

ha de ha. I would laugh very hard but the outrage of how much money is has accumulated as part of his 'entitlements' just has me frothing like a little rabid attack dog.

Callan57

Darlughda wrote: »

Gas thing it seems some of the FFs are trying to negotiate with the Bertie that it may not be a good idea him being the poster boy anymore and his nibs is still trying to ride it out, believing that we will all love him for 'creating' the celtic tiger boom years.

ha de ha. I would laugh very hard but the outrage of how much money is has accumulated as part of his 'entitlements' just has me frothing like a little rabid attack dog.

Eamon Gilmore must be behind the notion of retaining Bertie as 'poster boy' for FF for the next election .. it has to be a 'cunning plan' right?

jank

To the OP.
Ireland needs Bertie Ahern like Ireland needs another Anglo Irish Bank.

Bertie will go down as one if not THE worst leader this country has ever had!
All he was was a spoofer. Giving everyone what they wanted and letting certain business interested run the country on our behalf.

I can sum it up that his actions was treason.
All he is doing now is trying to rebuild his legacy that has crumbled before him. He left office thinking he was great, up there with Dev and Lemmas.

Now the house of cards have fallen and the emperor has no clothes.......

The Raven.

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Neither university has any records ?

Maybe Ahern was in charge of admissions, and dealt with them the same as he did Haughey's cheques and his own "dig-outs".

!

Not this time! These records never existed. He pretends to be a qualified accountant - more lies. He never attended university, as claimed. That is really cheap!

http://www.fiannafail.ie/people/bertie-ahern/

Liam Byrne

Seriously, though - has no-one ever questioned him during an interview about this ?

We all know that he likes to rewrite history to make himself look better, but this is misrepresentation and possibly fraudulent on some level on its own.

I accept that no-one's qualifications matter as a TD, and so this type of misrepresentation would only be seriously objectionable here in the real world; I also know that such lies might be overlooked if they emerged post-hiring after it turned out you were damn good at your job.

But combine those with what Ahern did to this country, and it has to be reason to kick him out as TD, no ?

Afterthought : probably not, considering that a tax clearance cert is legally required. Obviously the rules don't apply to the rat that Gift Grub unfortunately made appear to be a cuddly "man of the people".

round tower huntsman

jank wrote: »

To the OP.
Ireland needs Bertie Ahern like Ireland needs another Anglo Irish Bank.

Bertie will go down as one if not THE worst leader this country has ever had!
All he was was a spoofer. Giving everyone what they wanted and letting certain business interested run the country on our behalf.

I can sum it up that his actions was treason.
All he is doing now is trying to rebuild his legacy that has crumbled before him. He left office thinking he was great, up there with Dev and Lemmas.

Now the house of cards have fallen and the emperor has no clothes.......

exactly what he is. same as cowen, lenehin,neary,fitzer the lot of em. they should be arrested and tried traitors.

dan_d

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/fionnan-sheahan/fionnan-sheahan-ahern-says-hed-love-to-run-for-aras-but-ff-has-other-ideas-2331042.html

Anyone read this yesterday?

I didn't hear the radio interview, but Bertie Ahern is actually delusional!How can anybody take him seriously?? (and I know the indo is not a fantastic journalistic publication either, but still..)

oceanclub

I didn't foresee Lehman's coming and the rules changing,"

It's bizarre. Somehow he thinks that have an economy based mainly around buying and selling overpriced property to each other and letting the government operate on the stamp duties acquired was a working solution that could have gone on indefinitely. It's quite obvious that's he gone entirely mad.

It just shows the mentality of the guy that his main concern is that he didn't get to build his trophy stadium.

P.

oceanclub

Matt Cooper lets fly:

http://www.irishexaminer.ie/opinion/columnists/matt-cooper/would-you-embrace-bertie-just-like-that-busted-property-developer-130355.html

Here were two men high on the list of those culpable for landing this nation in the mess it’s in rubbing our noses in it as they enjoyed another big day out.

The last time we saw a picture of Ronhan embracing anybody it was on the front page of a tabloid newspaper; he was locked in a romantic clinch with former Miss World Rosanna Davison, a woman less than half his age.


[...]


[Ahern] has a considerable ego and a belief that he won’t be blamed for the mess he left behind when he departed suddenly in May 2008.

"The reality is I left this country in a state where we had low national debt, where we had full employment, low taxes and I didn’t foresee Lehman’s coming down and the rules changing," he said in an interview with RTÉ’s John Murray.

This is an outrageous misrepresentation of what happened. This myth, or lie, that the collapse of the US bank Lehman Brothers in September 2008 caused all of Ireland’s problems has been well and truly debunked by this stage, no matter how often those in power try to peddle it.

The Irish economy was unravelling by that stage – because of the Ahern-encouraged property bubble – and even if the liquidity issues faced by the banks were accelerated by Lehmans, the bad debts were going to come crashing down upon them anyway.


[...]


"What I was talking about that day was that when a bit of pressure comes on, the thing to do is to talk up your country, not talk down your country. That was the context and I share that sentiment today," he said. "The world recession didn’t start in Ireland and we have to lead ourselves out of this."

AGAIN this suggests we are victims of events elsewhere – when many of our biggest problems are self-inflicted. It also suggests it is anti-patriotic to try to tell the truth rather than engage in fiction. Have we learned nothing?

He may gamble that we haven’t. So Ahern for President? Well, let’s see how the public reacts to the eventual publication of the planning tribunal report into his bizarre personal financial dealings.

And remember too Ahern is the man who was responsible for maintaining Ivor Callely’s political career. Callely had just lost his seat and had failed in his bid to be elected to the Seanad when Ahern give him one of the 11 Taoiseach’s nominees in his gift.

P.

Biggins

Seriously - does anyone think his ghost written book belongs in the fiction, non-fiction or just (bad) comedy section?

The Raven.

Biggins wrote: »

Seriously - does anyone think his ghost written book belongs in the fiction, non-fiction or just (bad) comedy section?

I certainly won't be wasting my time reading it, but by all accounts it seems to be largely fiction. The idea of Bertie writing a book in the first place is bad comedy.

Ulysses Gaze

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Seriously, though - has no-one ever questioned him during an interview about this ?

We all know that he likes to rewrite history to make himself look better, but this is misrepresentation and possibly fraudulent on some level on its own.

I accept that no-one's qualifications matter as a TD, and so this type of misrepresentation would only be seriously objectionable here in the real world; I also know that such lies might be overlooked if they emerged post-hiring after it turned out you were damn good at your job.

But combine those with what Ahern did to this country, and it has to be reason to kick him out as TD, no ?

You expect Pravda-RTE to ask him hard questions?

Afterthought : probably not, considering that a tax clearance cert is legally required. Obviously the rules don't apply to the rat that Gift Grub unfortunately made appear to be a cuddly "man of the people".

We really, really need a Scrap Saturday these days.

caseyann

jank wrote: »

To the OP.
Ireland needs Bertie Ahern like Ireland needs another FAMINE.

Bertie will go down as one if not THE worst leader this country has ever had!
All he was was a spoofer. Giving everyone what they wanted and letting certain business interested run the country on our behalf.

I can sum it up that his actions was treason.
All he is doing now is trying to rebuild his legacy that has crumbled before him. He left office thinking he was great, up there with Dev and Lemmas.

Now the house of cards have fallen and the emperor has no clothes.......

We could say it like highlighted also