Bring Back Bertie ?

WallyGUFC

Laminations wrote: »

People voted rightly or wrongly based on what government were telling them, namely that the economy was grand and that if we ever landed it would be soft - if you thought otherwise you were told to commit suicide.

FF were never given a mandate for wrecking the place and for their recent preference of baling out banks over the economy. Some people always found them fishy, others (unfortunately a majority) just believed what they were told - hopefully now we have all learnt to scrutinise government policy a bit more closely.

Blaming the electorate is like blaming the family who hire a babysitter for years, after which it emerges the sitter was doing bad stuff. Unless you were monitoring the babysitter 24/7 (which would make their job redundant) it wouldn't have been apparent at the time, especially if the sitter was lying to you. The electorate put their trust in this government and got let down.

Fool a voter once, shame on you, fool them twice then they're perfect for FF

Suppose that's true alright. Once voters don't make the same mistake again whenever the next election takes place it's grand.
And there's no point bringing back...he'll just leave for the vacant presidential post next year!:rolleyes:

Laminations

WallyGUFC wrote: »

Suppose that's true alright. Once voters don't make the same mistake again whenever the next election takes place it's grand.
And there's no point bringing back...he'll just leave for the vacant presidential post next year!:rolleyes:

Thats it Wally, we can only hope we all know better now, but the problem is there are still a sizeable portion of society who have learnt nothing. You can recognise them by their defense of the indefensible at any opportunity and their ridiculous suggestions (like bringing Bertie back). Yes we deserve what we get, but do we deserve what they aim to get us?

raymon

The only place I would like to bring Bertie is to Mountjoy . I would stop off and pick up Callely along the way to save on mileage .

raymon

Lets not forget why Bertie resigned , the public was disgusted with the level of dishonesty that he exhibited .

******************************************
Warning : the level of dishonesty contained in the following link will make you nauseous
********************************************

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bertie_Ahern

McGilla

Bring back Bertie...and I sapose we could get Sean Fitzpatrick back in, to fix Anglo Irish!

Instead of looking at the past, we need new leadership for the future, a new political system, a new banking system, and no political parties!!!

FF, FG...Green - There all one product, marketed differently, and they're all a rip off!!!

Eutow

raymon wrote: »

Lets not forget why Bertie resigned , the public was disgusted with the level of dishonesty that he exhibited .

******************************************
Warning : the level of dishonesty contained in the following link will make you nauseous
********************************************

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bertie_Ahern

And from that same page which also appears here:

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/fionnan-sheahan/straight-answers-needed-to-taxing-bertie-questions-1277938.html

"It is not correct, and if I said so, I was not correct -- I cannot recall if I said it, but I did not say, or if I did, I did not mean to say it -- that these issues could not be dealt with until the end of the Mahon Tribunal," the Taoiseach said.


Pass the sick bag

raymon

Bertie for Taoiseach , Callely for Finance Minister , Cooper Flynn for president !!!! Bring back Ray Burke for Tanaiste . Bring back Pee Flynn as Ceann Comhairle .

Let them all back to rape the country again !!!

******Correction Bertie Callely and Flynn are still there !!!! No need to bring them back

PeterIanStaker

Its a Spindo article by Drennan ffs. Bulls hit in other words. Papers' an FF rag.

maynooth_rules

This thread is exactly the reason why I am looking forward to moving over to London in October and paying my taxes to the queen.
The fact that all we have been through over the last few years, that someone would start a thread with the title 'Bring back Bertie' nearly makes me physically sick. Bertie Ahern is the epitome of everything that is wrong with politics in this country.

The scary thing is that some of the uneducated masses and some of those that have little interest in politics still associate Bertie with the Celtic Tiger and assume if he comes back, the good times will roll again. These peoples vote carries the exact same weight as those of us that understand what a corrupt, slimy, cunning, gombeen rogue Bertie is

imme

No Thanks.:cool:

He's the reason why we are where are, world economic downturn not withstanding.
He led our country and charged our economic wellbeing to Charlie McCreevy who led us to unsustainability; negative equity; to the position where ANGLO became possible.

Stay where you are Bertie please and collect your pensions, you've earned them!!!

Seth Brundle

raymon wrote: »

Bertie for Taoiseach , Callely for Finance Minister , Cooper Flynn for president !!!! Bring back Ray Burke for Tanaiste . Bring back Pee Flynn as Ceann Comhairle .

Let them all back to rape the country again !!!

******Correction Bertie Callely and Flynn are still there !!!! No need to bring them back

Ivor was rejected and whilst I do hope that he remains a cost to society it won't be as a politician!!!

Bertie on the other hand, given his Dail attendance record, surely could not be considered as being "still there"

Liam Byrne

Did anyone see "Freefall" on RTE earlier ?

Ahern showed up in a clip at the end of it and (can't remember the exact quote) but was basically suggesting that he asked about stuff and was told to "whisht up".....

.........some f*&king "leader" !!!! What a plonker!!!!! Doesn't mind how much of a gormless idiot he looks as long as it seems cutesy and amiable!

Ulysses Gaze

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Did anyone see "Freefall" on RTE earlier ?

Ahern showed up in a clip at the end of it and (can't remember the exact quote) but was basically suggesting that he asked about stuff and was told to "whisht up".....

.........some f*&king "leader" !!!! What a plonker!!!!! Doesn't mind how much of a gormless idiot he looks as long as it seems cutesy and amiable!

That programme was a disgrace to the taxpayer - historical revisionism by Pravda-RTE and FF. Why are we paying a license fee to fund a programme that wouldn't have been out of place in Ceaucescu's Romania?

The Soldiers of Bankruptcy are preempting the Banking investigation by throwing the spin out about Lehman's and 'No body could have seen it coming'. Anyone else find it disgusting, terrifying and rage-inducing that Lenihan laughed about being uncontactable by the Head of the ECB at the height of the greatest financial crisis since the Great Depression 'cos he was on the lash at an FF piss-up in Kilkenny?

As for the thoughts of Ahern as Taoiseach again? Enough to fill me with a murderous rage...but seeing as it comes from the pen of a man who reveres the corrupt Haughey, I'd expect nothing less.

hallelujajordan

maynooth_rules wrote: »

This thread is exactly the reason why I am looking forward to moving over to London in October and paying my taxes to the queen.

Because British taxes are always put to noble and ethical use ? Did the expenses scandal in 2009 pass you by or do you just choose to ignore it ?

I wish people would quit the drama talk about leaving Ireland. I travel (a lot) and believe me the grass is not always greener !!

Liam Byrne

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

Anyone else find it disgusting, terrifying and rage-inducing that Lenihan laughed about being uncontactable by the Head of the ECB at the height of the greatest financial crisis since the Great Depression 'cos he was on the lash at an FF piss-up in Kilkenny?

Absolutely. Didn't dwell on it because the thread is about Ahern.

But yeah, and unless I'm mistaken, I think it was a race night that he said ? Galway Tent = objectionable, so they move it to Kilkenny, and can't be contacted by the EU.

You'd imagine that Ivor would have given Lenihan one of his many phones.

Unbelieveably sickening, with all of those incompetent con-men laughing and joking all the way to their buddies in the banks, and all of them on at least half a million a year......

Ulysses Gaze

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Because British taxes are always put to noble and ethical use ? Did the expenses scandal in 2009 pass you by or do you just choose to ignore it ?

I wish people would quit the drama talk about leaving Ireland. I travel (a lot) and believe me the grass is not always greener !!

At least the Brits own up when caught out and are sanctioned by their parties.

Tell me again what Ivor Callelly is going to do since he's been found out? Oh yeah, take the Seanad committee to Court to sue them!!

hallelujajordan

imme wrote: »

No Thanks.:cool:

He's the reason why we are where are, world economic downturn not withstanding.

Do you know how crazy that sentence sounds. Read it back to yourself. The World Economy took a downturn; several countries went (or almost went) bankrupt yet HE is the reason we are where we are ?

Nothing to do with the people who bought the houses (often multiple) that they couldn't afford with mortgages that were unsustainable ?

Liam Byrne

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Because British taxes are always put to noble and ethical use ? Did the expenses scandal in 2009 pass you by or do you just choose to ignore it ?

Remind us again how that was dealt with ?

Just in case you don't want us to compare and contrast :

The scandal aroused widespread anger among the UK public against MPs and a loss of confidence in politics. It resulted in a large number of resignations, sackings, de-selections and retirement announcements, together with public apologies and the repayment of expenses.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_Parliamentary_expenses_scandal

As stated before, it's not that you can 100% prevent scandals and scoundrels; it's how you deal with them that counts.

hallelujajordan

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

At least the Brits own up when caught out and are sanctioned by their parties.

Tell me again what Ivor Callelly is going to do since he's been found out? Oh yeah, take the Seanad committee to Court to sue them!!

Really ? Some of them did when put under party pressure to ? Many of them kept their heads down and hoped the Daily Telegraph would pass over them.

And as for sanctions. Did FF not apply an equivalent set of sanctions on Ivor (up to and including booting him out of the party) ???

Liam Byrne

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Nothing to do with the people who bought the houses (often multiple) that they couldn't afford with mortgages that were unsustainable ?

Nothing to do with the fact that the mortgage (often singular) was sustainable until they lost their job because of economic mismanagement ?

Nothing to do with the fact that they might have been getting worried about the economy but your beloved former Taoiseach dispelled their worries and told them that nasty negative thoughts like that would drive them to commit suicide ?

hallelujajordan

The scandal aroused widespread anger among the UK public against MPs and a loss of confidence in politics. It resulted in a large number of resignations, sackings, de-selections and retirement announcements, together with public apologies and the repayment of expenses.

O'Dea - resigned
O'donoghue - resigned
Callelly - booted out
Cooper Flynn - booted out ( and before you go on about her being let back in, remember the British labour party have some similar examples )

Why do we look at the UK and kid ourselves that it is so different and that we are so much worse?

hallelujajordan

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Nothing to do with the fact that the mortgage (often singular) was sustainable until they lost their job because of economic mismanagement ?

Nothing to do with the fact that they might have been getting worried about the economy but your beloved former Taoiseach dispelled their worries and told them that nasty negative thoughts like that would drive them to commit suicide ?

You are missing my point. The fact that we were willing to take out massive mortgages to pay for properties (or second properties!) in part drove the bubble that was going to burst regardless of whether or not they kept their jobs.

Liam Byrne

Corrections

O'Dea - resigned still a TD and an FF member
O'donoghue - resigned still a TD and an FF member
Callelly - eventually booted out
Cooper Flynn - booted out still a TD and an FF member

Ahern - still a TD and an FF member
Lowry - still a TD and propping up FF

Why do we look at the UK and kid ourselves that it is so different and that we are so much worse?

Well you're the one who highlighted the expenses scandal there. But now that you mention it, why do we even have to look to the UK ?

Why can't we have ethical and competent and accountable politicians here in this country, and forget about everywhere else ?

Mind you, if we did suggest that, we'd hear that "corruption goes on everywhere", as if it were the same. :rolleyes:

Liam Byrne

hallelujajordan wrote: »

You are missing my point. The fact that we were willing to take out massive mortgages to pay for properties (or second properties!) in part drove the bubble that was going to burst regardless of whether or not they kept their jobs.

And you are missing the reality of the point.....lots of "us" didn't take out massive mortgages and definitely didn't take them out on second properties!

What planet are FF members on if they believe that stuff like that is the norm ? :mad:

Plus you've avoided commenting on your beloved Ahern's complicity in the above by egging people on.

Ulysses Gaze

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Really ? Some of them did when put under party pressure to ? Many of them kept their heads down and hoped the Daily Telegraph would pass over them.

And as for sanctions. Did FF not apply an equivalent set of sanctions on Ivor (up to and including booting him out of the party) ???

And here I was thinking Ivor had resigned.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0825/callelyi.html

hallelujajordan

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Well you're the one who highlighted the expenses scandal there. But now that you mention it, why do we even have to look to the UK ?

Why can't we have ethical and competent and accountable politicians here in this country, and forget about everywhere else ?

Mind you, if we did suggest that, we'd hear that "corruption goes on everywhere", as if it were the same. :rolleyes:

Now you are just dragging this even further off topic. I think you and I can both agree that we deserve to have a fair and ethical political system in Ireland with competent and accountable politicians regardless of what exists in other countries.

However, if maynooth rules is ready to declare how happy he is to be leaving our (corrupt) state to pay taxes to the (presumably non corrupt) UK state, then someone should point out the obvious to him.

raymon

hallelujajordan wrote: »

we deserve to have a fair and ethical political system in Ireland with competent and accountable politicians regardless of what exists in other countries.

So you joined FF to change it from within - tell me how is that going ???
Did they get back to you yet on your great ideas that you proposed ???
Tell us what great strides you are making within your party !!

Is proposing Bertie (the murkiest politician by far since charlie) the best reform you can make ???

Bertie has given up on politics - this is clear from his attendance record in the dail . He is an old man with a track record of grossly dishonest acts .

Bertie has a bigger list if dishonorable deeds than Ivor has .

Hallelujah - I havent seen one post in support of your argument voting this scumbag in for taoiseach.

Bertie was a very weak leader even at his peak .

Look..... Cowan is a buffoon -and Lenihan is actually a good politician . These two are the only people who can save FF. Because they are not thieves . They are bankrupting our country , but they are not thieves.

I think you may have got a little bit too excited when you read that terribly written piece on Bertie last Sunday

It actually made me sick to read it !

jank

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Now you are just dragging this even further off topic. I think you and I can both agree that we deserve to have a fair and ethical political system in Ireland with competent and accountable politicians regardless of what exists in other countries.

.

Ethical? If you are on about ethical than why the hell do you want to bring back Bertie?

Liam Byrne

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Nothing to do with the fact that they might have been getting worried about the economy but your beloved former Taoiseach dispelled their worries and told them that nasty negative thoughts like that would drive them to commit suicide ?

Could you expand on that?
Apart from the builders who lost their jobs because supply outstripped demand and banks couldn't lend because they had no money due to irresponsible lending-what economic mismanagement specifically are you referring to ?

If it's regulation,it mirrored and competed with standards in other countries as promoted by people as far back as Reagan ie lets have none of it.

The rest of it was just a microcosm in my view of what we do well in this country,perhaps better than most and that is greed.

As did Bertie incidently.Like Haughey he appears to have had a cunning ability to use his position to legally feather his own nest.
I say legally because nothing illegal has been proven..Alls thats been shown with him is sloppy finances unbecoming of a countries leader.

But hey don't confuse that with the culpability of this nations greed.A human failing is in large part responsible for this mess.
We're all intelligent...it's just that we are stupid beyond belief at the same time in defence of our greed.

Seth Brundle

hallelujajordan wrote: »

And as for sanctions. Did FF not apply an equivalent set of sanctions on Ivor (up to and including booting him out of the party) ???

FF launched an investigation into conduct unbecoming a FF member (ha ha!) and Ivor resigned from the party - FF did not boot him out!

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0825/1224277544671.html

hallelujajordan wrote: »

O'Dea - resigned
O'donoghue - resigned
Callelly - booted out
Cooper Flynn - booted out ( and before you go on about her being let back in, remember the British labour party have some similar examples )

As above!