Prostitution in Ireland.

Wolfe Tone

Millicent wrote: »

A lot of the draw of prostitution is resultant from the current attitudes to sex though. People often want the sort of sexual encounter from a prostitute that they would be too ashamed or disgusted by to ask of a partner. It's an odd dichotomy but the closing off of sexual freedom actually fuels a lot of prostitution. When people stop looking at sex as dirty or shameful, they will stop feeling the need to separate sexual partners into the categories of "whore" or "wife." I can't prove it but I would speculate that prostitution might have a positive effect on some relationships.

I am 19. If I was in a society where prostitution is an acceptable "norm" what sort of effect will that have on my attitude to sex, and indeed women?

I dont think it would be a positive one tbh.

Wolfe Tone

I would describe myself as left leaning actually.

Monty Burnz

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

I would describe myself as left leaning actually.

Sorry, that was a joke based on your name.

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*Checks PMs for offers of payment to romance Boards ladies*

Wolfe Tone

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Sorry, that was a joke based on your name.

---

*Checks PMs for offers of payment to romance Boards ladies*

Yeah I know, my fault for picking a daft name.

Millicent

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

I am 19. If I was in a society where prostitution is an acceptable "norm" what sort of effect will that have on my attitude to sex, and indeed women?

I dont think it would be a positive one tbh.

What sort of effect do you think it has now where paid sexual encounters are too shameful to be legally accepted? Just for food for thought, statistically straight male prostitutes make up a tiny proportion of the sex worker trade while prostitute geared toward gay women is almost unheard of. The majority of prostitutes are straight women or gay men. Doesn't say a lot for current attitudes toward women.

Mike 1972

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

I am 19. If I was in a society where prostitution is an acceptable "norm" what sort of effect will that have on my attitude to sex, and indeed women?.

For a guy who reckons he is "left leaning" you seem to be very heavily influenced by "societys norms" ?

Millicent wrote: »

statistically straight male prostitutes make up a tiny proportion of the sex worker trade while prostitute geared toward gay women is almost unheard of. The majority of prostitutes are straight women or gay men. Doesn't say a lot for current attitudes toward women.

So are you suggesting that gay men who use male prostitues are homophobic

drkpower

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

I am 19. If I was in a society where prostitution is an acceptable "norm" what sort of effect will that have on my attitude to sex, and indeed women?

I dont think it would be a positive one tbh.

As a rule, it is not the role of the state to tell us what private consenting activity is a 'norm' and to criminalise private consenting activity it considers not to be a 'norm'. Society & parts thereof are perfectly capable of determining what private activities are 'norms', without the state making something illegal.

Taking a dump on your partner's t*ts would be frowned upon in most circles without the state feeling the need to make it illegal. Its summed up by this famous phrase.......: I vehemently disagree with your taste for taking a sh!t on your wife, but i will fight, to my last breath, for your right to do so......

Wolfe Tone

drkpower wrote: »

As a rule, it is not the role of the state to tell us what private consenting activity is a 'norm' and to criminalise private consenting activity it considers not to be a 'norm'. Society & parts thereof are perfectly capable of determining what private activities are 'norms', without the state making something illegal.

Taking a dump on your partner's t*ts would be frowned upon in most circles without the state feeling the need to make it illegal. Its summed up by this famous phrase.......: I vehemently disagree with your taste for taking a sh!t on your wife, but i will fight, to my last breath, for your right to do so......

But it aint private, you want it as a taxable job.

Monty Burnz

Mike 1972 wrote: »

So are you suggesting that gay men who use male prostitues are homophobic

Without wanting to speak for M here, I presume she is saying that the people in the sex industry are historically marginalised/disenfranchised groups.

Millicent

Mike 1972 wrote: »

So are you suggesting that gay men who use male prostitues are homophobic

Um, what?! right back at ye!

Wolfe Tone

I would say that the reason there are very few straight male prostitutes is that women generally can go out and have a sexual encounter, unless they are as ugly as sin.

Millicent

Mike 1972 wrote: »

So are you suggesting that gay men who use male prostitues are homophobic

Just to expand on what I meant Mike, prostitution will always be a viable industry as long as current attitudes toward sex prevail. I was hoping to suggest to Mussolini that it would be better to address and try to change those attitudes than to criminalise people who are cashing in on a niche. They are only taking advantage of a gap in the market -- keeping it illegal helps neither prostitute nor client.

drkpower

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

But it aint private, you want it as a taxable job.

What do you mean by 'private'; do you think if it were legal, sex with prostitutes would be happening on the streets?

'Private' has no relationship to taxation; a packet of condoms are taxed but people use them in private.

You might clarify your statement; you seem confused.

Millicent

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

I would say that the reason there are very few straight male prostitutes is that women generally can go out and have a sexual encounter, unless they are as ugly as sin.

What about gay women? Why the dearth in lesbian prostitutes? I wouldn't imagine picking up a woman would be all that easy given the percentages of gay women in society compared to heterosexual.

Mike 1972

Millicent wrote: »

Um, what?! right back at ye!

Youre making sweeping generalisations about men who use female prostitutes and their attitude towards the female gender in general. If there were any foundation to such generalisations wouldnt it follow that they are also applicable to men who use male prostitutes.

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

I am 19. If I was in a society where prostitution is an acceptable "norm" what sort of effect will that have on my attitude to sex, and indeed women?

If I had all day I could investigate how well women have historically been treated European societies with more liberal to attitudes to prostitution as compared to Ireland. As it happens I dont but I somehow suspect Ireland wouldnt exactly come out shining in such a comparison.

Wolfe Tone

drkpower wrote: »

What do you mean by 'private'; do you think if it were legal, sex with prostitutes would be happening on the streets?

'Private' has no relationship to taxation; a packet of condoms are taxed but people use them in private.

You might clarify your statement; you seem confused.

If it is run as a business, then how is it private? If it is taxed, regulated etc etc, then it aint private is it?

They would set themselves up as a company I am sure.

scientific1982

I wouldnt do it, but I have a few mates who did. Id feel like a scumbag.

drkpower

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

If it is run as a business, then how is it private? If it is taxed, regulated etc etc, then it aint private is it?.

The activity that people pay for (ie. sex) will be in private. It is a transaction that one private individual pays another private individual in a privately negotiated contract and which is performed in a private setting with no doubt strict privacy being a condition of the contract........ How do you consider that public? :D

The Governemtn regulate my interaction with my doctor, but when he sticks his finger up my ass in a private consultation room and i pay him €50 for the pleasure, I consider it to be an entirely private transaction. How does the Goverment regulation of that transaction make it public in any substantive way?

Wolfe Tone

drkpower wrote: »

The activity that people pay for (ie. sex) will be in private. It is a transaction that one private individual pays another private individual in a privately negotiated contract and which is performed in a private setting with no doubt strict privacy being a condition of the contract........ How do you consider that public? :D

The Governemtn regulate my interaction with my doctor, but when he sticks his finger up my ass in a private consultation room and i pay him €50 for the pleasure, I consider it to be an entirely private transaction. How does the Goverment regulation of that transaction make it public in any substantive way?

So by your logic a contract negotiated in that way is no one elses business and should be beyond the remit of the law?

MazG

Monty Burnz wrote: »

MazG - you think a casual encounter is fine, but a professional agreement is not? I find that bizarre, quite frankly. And you don't address the fact that the options you consider 'fine' may not be possible for some people at all. How are they supposed to deal with their sex drives? Castration?

Eh - that's not what I said. I was using that list as examples of how one might otherwise attain sexual gratification if one did not pay for sex.

I am saying that I'm very uncomfortable with the attitude that people are entitled to sexual gratification. That it's something everyone should be able to demand

Deus Ex Machina

I would get absolutely nothing out of sexual intercourse with a person I don't know or like. I wouldn't have sex with a prostitute, just as I wouldn't have a one night stand purely for the purposes of the sex itself. For me sex isn't enjoyable unless you like the person and they like you.

t0mm13b

If your hand is tired then that's the last resort - in that case no, I would not pay for it... what with CCTV cameras an' all placed all around, then finding its way to the intertubez meh... no thanks.... better safe than sorry, "talk to the hand" instead... no stds etc etc...

drkpower

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

So by your logic a contract negotiated in that way is no one elses business and should be beyond the remit of the law?

The very existence of the contract should be beyond the remit of the criminal law, yes, of course.

Millicent

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Youre making sweeping generalisations about men who use female prostitutes and their attitude towards the female gender in general. If there were any foundation to such generalisations wouldnt it follow that they are also applicable to men who use male prostitutes.

Oh God, honestly that wasn't what I meant. Sorry if it came across like that. I meant to make a point about societal attitudes to sex but appear to have made a hash of it.

Procasinator

Millicent wrote: »

What about gay women? Why the dearth in lesbian prostitutes? I wouldn't imagine picking up a woman would be all that easy given the percentages of gay women in society compared to heterosexual.

Which is why facilities such as gay bars are popular.

I'd imagine an "average" homosexual female going to a lesbian bar would have a lot more opportunities than an "average" guy going to a "normal" bar.

rossie1977

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

I would describe myself as left leaning actually.

reading your posts on this thread you are clearly right-wing, your posts remind me of many republicans i have debated with on us forums

MazG

Millicent wrote: »

But why wouldn't you? Is it strictly to do with your morals or is something else at play?

Also, I don't really drink (bar the odd glass of champagne or a seasonal alcopop or two). I don't think anyone is entitled to drink but if they want to pay for it, I don't have a problem with it so long as they don't harm anyone when drunk.

Yes, of course it's to do with my morals. I don't deny that. That's what any debate about whether something is right or wrong will come down to.

I maintain that prostitution has close links with human trafficking, coercion, violence, drug-abuse, organised crime, transmission of sexual diseases and the objectification of humans as sex-objects and for all these reasons (and possibily more that I can't think of right now) I think prostitution is wrong. And I have never seen any evidence that total legalisation and regulation of prostitution has solved or even ameliorated these problems.

MazG

rossie1977 wrote: »

reading your posts on this thread you are clearly right-wing, your posts remind me of many republicans i have debated with on us forums

Sorry Rossie, but I think that's a bit harsh. It bothers me if people can't make a case without accusations being made about being a right-wing republican/treehugging liberal hippy (delete as appropriate)

C'mon, you can do better than that!

drkpower

MazG wrote: »

Yes, of course it's to do with my morals. I don't deny that. That's what any debate about whether something is right or wrong will come down to.

Very true; but your morals should have nothing to do with whether the activities, in private, of two other adult individuals, are criminalised.

Millicent

Procasinator wrote: »

Which is why facilities such as gay bars are popular.

I'd imagine an "average" homosexual female going to a lesbian bar would have a lot more opportunities than an "average" guy going to a "normal" bar.

I wouldn't say that's true. If women are as picky as they are often made out to be here, why would gay women have lower standards than straight women?