The Great AH Census of Religion

MagicMarker

landsleaving wrote: »

I just don't agree with that at all. The only time I have a problem with religion is when their views are forced on me, or used for evil in wars or acts of violence and aggression. Otherwise, live and let live.

If all religions felt the same then we wouldn't be having this conversation. Unfortunately, they don't, you ignoring that doesn't change the facts. There are millions out their who have views forced on them.

But no, it's all cool man, who cares if people are murdered in the name of religion, so long as you're okay, then there's no problem.

Des Carter

jfrmbray wrote: »

The irony of religion is that because of its power to divert man to destructive courses, the world could actually come to an end. The plain fact is, religion must die for mankind to live. The hour is getting very late to be able to indulge in having in key decisions made by religious people. By irrationalists, by those who would steer the ship of state not by a compass, but by the equivalent of reading the entrails of a chicken. George Bush prayed a lot about Iraq, but he didn't learn a lot about it. Faith means making a virtue out of not thinking. It's nothing to brag about. And those who preach faith, and enable and elevate it are intellectual slaveholders, keeping mankind in a bondage to fantasy and nonsense that has spawned and justified so much lunacy and destruction. Religion is dangerous because it allows human beings who don't have all the answers to think that they do. Most people would think it's wonderful when someone says, "I'm willing, Lord! I'll do whatever you want me to do!" Except that since there are no gods actually talking to us, that void is filled in by people with their own corruptions and limitations and agendas. And anyone who tells you they know, they just know what happens when you die, I promise you, you don't. How can I be so sure? Because I don't know, and you do not possess mental powers that I do not. The only appropriate attitude for man to have about the big questions is not the arrogant certitude that is the hallmark of religion, but doubt. Doubt is humble, and that's what man needs to be, considering that human history is just a litany of getting **** dead wrong. This is why rational people, anti-religionists, must end their timidity and come out of the closet and assert themselves. And those who consider themselves only moderately religious really need to look in the mirror and realize that the solace and comfort that religion brings you actually comes at a terrible price. If you belonged to a political party or a social club that was tied to as much bigotry, misogyny, homophobia, violence, and sheer ignorance as religion is, you'd resign in protest. To do otherwise is to be an enabler, a mafia wife, for the true devils of extremism that draw their legitimacy from the billions of their fellow travelers. If the world does come to an end here, or wherever, or if it limps into the future, decimated by the effects of religion-inspired nuclear terrorism, let's remember what the real problem was that we learned how to precipitate mass death before we got past the neurological disorder of wishing for it. That's it. Grow up or die.

-Bill Maher(Religulous-2008)

Dude Im sorry this is major facepalm I mean what you are talking about there is human failures not religious ones.

If God exists he gave people free will and then people chose to abuse religion by turning it into a way of elevating themselves and becomming corrupt. For example the vast majority of religious wars etc or connected to either Christianity, Islam or judaeism yet all three believe in the exact same God so why would god want people to fight each other.

As for the homophobic attitudes etc, they were implemented by the Catholic Church, not God.

Zillah

Des Carter wrote: »

As for the homophobic attitudes etc, they were implemented by the Catholic Church, not God.

The Catholic Church is pretty insistent that they represent God.

Misanthrope

Zillah wrote: »

I presume there's a typo in there maybe. Doesn't matter, my point is about a flawed argument, not grammar/spelling pedantry.



Oh yes, absolutely! But when there is a conflict...

Nope............................ just IGNORANCE:D

MagicMarker

Des Carter wrote: »

Dude Im sorry this is major facepalm I mean what you are talking about there is human failures not religious ones.

If God exists he gave people free will and then people chose to abuse religion by turning it into a way of elevating themselves and becomming corrupt. For example the vast majority of religious wars etc or connected to either Christianity, Islam or judaeism yet all three believe in the exact same God so why would god want people to fight each other.

As for the homophobic attitudes etc, they were implemented by the Catholic Church, not God.

Their God's tell them to fight each other, to kill unbelievers, to kill anyone who would tempt you towards another God.

The Bible, the WORD OF GOD, tells them to MURDER homosexuals.

These are not man made.

sligopark

Yep another religious thread degenerating into bitching and 'I am more right than you are' sort of sh1te

landsleaving

MagicMarker wrote: »

If all religions felt the same then we wouldn't be having this conversation. Unfortunately, they don't, you ignoring that doesn't change the facts. There are millions out their who have views forced on them.

But no, it's all cool man, who cares if people are murdered in the name of religion, so long as you're okay, then there's no problem.

That was hardly my point. I'm well aware of all the horrible things committed in the name of religion. I'm not stupid. I just mean that having no respect for people who are religious despite this is absurd. They're entitled to their beliefs and I have no problems with them. I do, as you do, have a problem with people who force their views on others, be they atheist or theist.

philologos

sligopark wrote: »

Yep another religious thread degenerating into bitching and 'I am more right than you are' sort of sh1te

Tends to be the way unfortunately!

Des Carter

Zillah wrote: »

The Catholic Church is pretty insistent that they represent God.

Ya but they clearly dont when they go around molesting young boys. I however believe in a God but I came to that conclusion myself, not cause some old men and an ancient half missing, highly censored book tells me to. The Catholic Church is plain and simple corruption and a desire to control and gain power.

MagicMarker

landsleaving wrote: »

That was hardly my point. I'm well aware of all the horrible things committed in the name of religion. I'm not stupid. I just mean that having no respect for people who are religious despite this is absurd. They're entitled to their beliefs and I have no problems with them. I do, as you do, have a problem with people who force their views on others, be they atheist or theist.

Would you have respect for someone's beliefs if they believed elvis is still alive? Or that women should be murdered for not being a virgin on their wedding night?

I have respect for a person's right to a belief, but I don't have to have respect for their actual beliefs. Some beliefs are just stupid. It's just not politically correct challenge their beliefs when they happen to be shared by a large number of people.

Misanthrope

Des Carter wrote: »

Dude Im sorry this is major facepalm I mean what you are talking about there is human failures not religious ones.

If God exists he gave people free will and then people chose to abuse religion by turning it into a way of elevating themselves and becomming corrupt. For example the vast majority of religious wars etc or connected to either Christianity, Islam or judaeism yet all three believe in the exact same God so why would god want people to fight each other.

As for the homophobic attitudes etc, they were implemented by the Catholic Church, not God.

Is god not omniscient omnipotent infallible and benevolent?Then he could and should have intervened.There was no need for bad **** to happen.Or would you contend that god has a requirement for us to suffer.We're told he required his own son to suffer immeasurably for things we did?This is a sick mentality.

If I believed this god existed I would set out to murder him.

Des Carter

MagicMarker wrote: »

Their God's tell them to fight each other, to kill unbelievers, to kill anyone who would tempt you towards another God.

The Bible, the WORD OF GOD, tells them to MURDER homosexuals.

These are not man made.

Wow I really need to read the bible as I thought it said that they were supposed to convert unbelievers not kill them??????

Misanthrope

Des Carter wrote: »

Wow I really need to read the bible as I thought it said that they were supposed to convert unbelievers not kill them??????

Yeah you do need to have a read of it.Not the Childrens bible or one of the new 'cleaned up' versions though.Read the old books

philologos

MagicMarker wrote: »

Their God's tell them to fight each other, to kill unbelievers, to kill anyone who would tempt you towards another God.

The Bible, the WORD OF GOD, tells them to MURDER homosexuals.

These are not man made.

*sigh*

Des Carter

Misanthrope wrote: »

Is god not omniscient omnipotent infallible and benevolent?Then he could and should have intervened.There was no need for bad **** to happen.Or would you contend that god has a requirement for us to suffer.We're told he required his own son to suffer immeasurably for things we did?This is a sick mentality.

If I believed this god existed I would set out to murder him.

This is all taken from the bible and it is common knowlede that at the 1st council of nicea or whatever the heads of the church heavily edited the book and manipulated its words and meanings with the best known example being them discrediting Jesus' wife and portraying her as a prostitute.

Misanthrope

Only 6.6% of those polled have true faith.Everyone else is leaving the door of possibility open at least a crack.

What does god say about those who doubt him or don't have faith.Is he cool with it or will you have to go to purgatory or something.Or will you wind up down in hell with the other deniers?

philologos

Des Carter wrote: »

This is all taken from the bible and it is common knowlede that at the 1st council of nicea or whatever the heads of the church heavily edited the book and manipulated its words and meanings with the best known example being them discrediting Jesus' wife and portraying her as a prostitute.

The books of the Bible weren't altered at Nicea, rather the books of the New Testament were chosen. The criterion for which the Gospels were chosen were based on which texts had been used from the first century onwards, and which were thought to be attributed to the disciples / Apostles. The textual evidence shows that the Biblical text has remained as it was in the first century with the exception of 40 passages in the New Testament which are considered doubtful in origin.

There is nothing to suggest that Jesus had a wife.

I wonder why people are so willing to hold Christianity with skepticism, and then soon after believe in rumours such as these which have no actual backing.

Misanthrope

Jakkass wrote: »

I wonder why people are so willing to hold Christianity with skepticism, and then soon after believe in rumours such as these which have no actual backing.

Maybe they're using irony to reinforce a point?

smcgiff

I am a strong 6 - I can't disprove a god, but think it's at least as unlikely as their being a living T-Rex at this moment in time in some corner of the world stalking a busty, immaculately coiffed, beauty in a leather bikini.

Evolution is a fact. Look at diseases adapting to anti-biotics.

I do not comprehend how anyone that understands evolution can believe in any of the major religions currently doing the rounds.

For evolution to be true the planet needs to be much much older than what the bible would account for. Otherwise you need to believe the bible is made up of allegories, which would have got you burnt at the stake by your contemporaries only a heart beat ago geologically speaking, but ye, thankfully, have evolved!

If the bible has allegories then all bets are off – you cannot stand over it. It’s a false witness.

philologos

smcgiff wrote: »

For evolution to be true the planet needs to be much much older than what the bible would account for. Otherwise you need to believe the bible is made up of allegories, which would have got you burnt at the stake by your contemporaries only a heart beat ago geologically speaking, but ye, thankfully, have evolved!

Evolved, thanks be to God!

Where does the Bible say how old the world is? Just curious.

smcgiff wrote: »

If the bible has allegories then all bets are off – you cannot stand over it. It’s a false witness.

This is awful reasoning. Given that Jesus often spoke in parable, and much of the Bible is poetic.

Do you understand what Christians believe the Bible to be before criticising it?

Misanthrope

Des Carter wrote: »

This is all taken from the bible and it is common knowlede that at the 1st council of nicea or whatever the heads of the church heavily edited the book and manipulated its words and meanings with the best known example being them discrediting Jesus' wife and portraying her as a prostitute.

Where can I get a copy of the 'correct' bible.I'm sick of referring to all these bogus ones.

Could we maybe all agree on one version.Let it be the one straight from the horse's mouth , whichever one that is

MagicMarker

Jakkass wrote: »

*sigh*

So why did God change his mind? Being the all knowing fella that he is why didn't he just not condemn homosexuals to death in the first place if Jesus was going to pay for our sins anyway?

You can try and rationalise it all you want though, but it doesn't really wash with me.

philologos

MagicMarker wrote: »

So why did God change his mind? Being the all knowing fella that he is why didn't he just not condemn homosexuals to death in the first place if Jesus was going to pay for our sins anyway?

He didn't change His mind at all, it was a part of a divine plan to be brought about over time.

MagicMarker wrote: »

You can try and rationalise it all you want though, but it doesn't really wash with me.

Good for you. Personally if I see inaccurate claims about what Christians believe posted here, I'll try to clear them up.

Misanthrope

I am a strong 6 - I can't disprove a god, but think it's at least as unlikely as their being a living T-Rex at this moment in time in some corner of the world stalking a busty, immaculately coiffed, beauty in a leather bikini.

Dude that actually happened.I saw a movie about it

Evolution is a fact. Look at diseases adapting to anti-biotics.

No.God created diseases.Man tried to kill them with anti biotics but couldn't

I do not comprehend how anyone that understands evolution can believe in any of the major religions currently doing the rounds.

The existence of a phenomenon such as this is not dependent on your comprehension.

For evolution to be true the planet needs to be much much older than what the bible would account for. Otherwise you need to believe the bible is made up of allegories, which would have got you burnt at the stake by your contemporaries only a heart beat ago geologically speaking, but ye, thankfully, have evolved!

In the days of Noah the Earth turned much more slowly, like a few million times slower thus explaining your time discrepancy.After the flood it speeded up.

If the bible has allegories then all bets are off – you cannot stand over it. It’s a false witness.

b

There are no allegories in it.This is a smear by atheists to deny gods true word.

Jev/N

Zillah wrote: »

The Catholic Church is pretty insistent that they represent God.

Lots of people insist lots of things, that does not make those things so

Kurtosis

Misanthrope wrote: »

I suppose smug is what you could call it.If smug means being at ease with my sense of reasoning and the honesty of my position, then you can call me Smuggles.

The ignorance is all yours.What have you brought to this thread but a rebuke with no substance.

By common sense, I mean to infer logic.It is illogical to believe in an omniscient omnipotent infallible and benevolent higher power.

If god is all that why do good people die in misery and agony,deprived of love and dignity?And don't say it's mans fault.Such a god could end it with a whim.Such is not his fancy.

Cheers for the scolding

The ignorance which I referred to was two-fold.

Your post displayed a lack of knowledge/understanding of the concept of belief systems and the debate that surrounds them. To suggest that any belief system "wins" due to a poll (be it online or in the form of a census) and that those who hold any other belief system should reconsider their position based on this exemplifies this. This is a complex multifactorial debate and, as I said, to think of it as a contest to be won or lost on a poll does not do justice to the intelligent discussion that has been displayed my the majority of contributors.

Secondly, your argument from authority, being dismissive and condescending towards a minority opinion and branding such an opinion as lacking common sense (regardless of what you may have been trying to infer), I consider to be ignorant in the sense of rude (as Zillah posted). Such a post does not help either side in this debate, it only serves to damage the discussion.

Really though, my post can stand on its own without my use of the word ignorance, as people seem to have taken exception to it.

To respond to your question regarding god, you may notice I did not claim anything of that sort in my post, you have simply made an assumption of the belief that I hold. For your information, I would categorise my view as option 3.

philologos

To be honest with you, there is little to be gained from discussions like these unless people are really willing to listen (in our case read) & consider each others points. Personal conviction comes down to much more than mere words and arguments.

Des Carter

Did you hear about the dyslexic Atheist?

He didnt believe in Dogs!!!

landsleaving

MagicMarker wrote: »

Would you have respect for someone's beliefs if they believed elvis is still alive? Or that women should be murdered for not being a virgin on their wedding night?

I have respect for a person's right to a belief, but I don't have to have respect for their actual beliefs. Some beliefs are just stupid.

As long as it doesn't hurt anyone, who cares if they believe Elvis is alive. I might not think it's the smartest thing in the world, but I'm sure there's plenty of things I believe that could be insulted too.

As for the second belief, that's just plain wrong, and if your argument is to suggest that a religion promotes this I would suggest that its an extreme case. Not that that makes it any better, it's utterly despicable.

I think you've taken me out of context a bit. I'm not denying that people have committed atrocities in the name of religion. They absolutely have, and will continue to do so. i just disagree with the notion that its ok to belittle someones beliefs because of these things. It isn't faith which causes it, but the failures of people.

Des Carter

Jakkass wrote: »

There is nothing to suggest that Jesus had a wife.

I wonder why people are so willing to hold Christianity with skepticism, and then soon after believe in rumours such as these which have no actual backing.

http://www.unsolvedmysteries.com/usm87680.html