Should I dock the tails of my Rottweiler pups

Feargal as Luimneach

If would be less painfull to cut the tail off than to do the "method" you describe:(.

sligopark

Method removed.

sorry I would mgo that bit further and suggest such on one's d1ck

no need really I would think other than working dogs (ie bushing/shooting) and I know this might not be flavour of the month either

Hellrazer

Ive removed all references to the "method" that was suggested by Boxermad which I feel is bordering on breaching our cruelty against animals rule.

Try keep the cruel methods out of the thread.

morganafay

Feargal as Luimneach wrote: »

You can put local anaesthetic in the tail before the tail is cut off. So they don't feel the amputation. Thay will however feel pain once it wears off.

Do you think the local anaesthetic would stop all the pain?

Apparently if you just put local anaesthetic on the skin, it'll numb the skin but still hurt when you cut into it.

If the local anaesthetic is injected if might work better, but I had my hand cut open and stitched up with local anaesthetic (about 20 injections) and it still hurt a lot.

belongtojazz

I so much prefer to see a dog with a full tail. My jack has a full tail and I think it makes it much easier for me to judge her mood. Just because the tail is wagging doesn't mean they are happy the angle is very important which is much easier to read with a long tail

scudzilla

Not a Rottie but we have a boxer, a breed which used to be constantly docked.


Brodi is 12 months next month and has a tail, we would never have considered docking her, and when she has pups they will not be docked. If anybody even mentions they will dock them then they're not having one.

morganafay

She's so beautiful Scudzilla

I wish my springer had had a full tail. They've such nice tails. But he used to wag his tail as hard as he could anyway, and if he had a full tail he probably would have had all the cavaliers biting it, as they did to his ears anyway

Wisco

Please don't dock!
In order to have it done in Ireland, you'd have to do it yourself as no vet or vet nurse can legally perform this procedure any more as they risk being struck off the register if they do it. And as someone who's assisted during docking (not my choice, was part of the job)- they scream and bleed- trust me, it's very horrible to watch/listen to!
And who doesn't love a waggely tail?!

Sigma Force

buckled wrote: »

That’s my worry and as you can imagine rotties aren't the most popular dog (even though they’re the best:D) so I want to give them the best chance of finding a good home, that’s why I want to get the opinion of rottie fans and owners. However I do value everybody’s opinion.

They’re pure bred but not from a line of show dogs. They’re just family pets and great pets at that.

I’m kind of swaying in the direction of keeping them for the following reasons:
1. I spoke with the IKC and they said that you can show them both with and without tails in Ireland.
2. A guy rand this morning for a pup and he wants one with a tail.
3. As they are a misunderstood dog, a wagging tail is a good way of expressing their friendly intentions.

Anyway they will be 3 days old in the morning, so I’m going to have to make a decision tonight.

Thanks for the input and I’ll let ye all know tomorrow what decision I made.

Although you can show them without in Ireland things hopefully will be changing, plus as you said these are pets not show dogs anyway so keeping the tails shouldn't effect the sale of the pups if you are selling them to genuine rottie lovers who want the dog for their personality/general overall look and not for their tail.

Some vets will refuse to dock tails in Ireland now thank god, it's also a brief but painful procedure you'd be basically maiming the puppies for no reason at all.

lrushe

Wisco wrote: »

In order to have it done in Ireland, you'd have to do it yourself as no vet or vet nurse can legally perform this procedure any more as they risk being struck off the register if they do it.

This is not true, there are vets still willing to do it, I've even found it advertised:

Tail-docking ( 2 – 4 days) €20.00
Tail-docking (pups over 5 days) €30.00

ADAlliance

Veterinary Ireland policy - 'mutilations such as ear cropping and tail docking of dogs, which are done for cosmetic purposes are considered ethically unacceptable and Veterinary Surgeons should refrain from performing these techniques'
The advertisement quote should be sent to the professionaly conduct department of VI for investigation

Feargal as Luimneach

morganafay wrote: »

Do you think the local anaesthetic would stop all the pain?

Apparently if you just put local anaesthetic on the skin, it'll numb the skin but still hurt when you cut into it.

If the local anaesthetic is injected if might work better, but I had my hand cut open and stitched up with local anaesthetic (about 20 injections) and it still hurt a lot.

I didn't say on the tail. I said in the tail, as in subcut.:rolleyes:

boxerly

NO NO NO please leave their tails alone.I took in a rottie pup a few weeks ago who had a full tail and the amount of people who commented was unreal.Some people actually thought they were born with no tail and when they saw hers they thought cutting their tails was very cruel.Alot of people love rotties with tails.I saw boxer pups with botched up docking it was terrible I can still hear remember the terrible sight I saw and the pain the poor pups were in:(You have to do what is right for the dogs,If people dont want them with tails then dont breed them,simple!

lrushe

ADAlliance wrote: »

Veterinary Ireland policy - 'mutilations such as ear cropping and tail docking of dogs, which are done for cosmetic purposes are considered ethically unacceptable and Veterinary Surgeons should refrain from performing these techniques'

The Vererinary Association certainly does seem to condemn the practice but to me that quote sounds more of a recommendation than an instruction, its seems open to interpretation?

DeadlyByDesign

Look at the end of the day anyone says that you should cut off part of an animal to make more aesthetiacally pleasing to the eye, needs their head seen to. YOu are suggesting hacking a limb from an animal to make it more "pretty" the notion is ludacris.

January

Glad you decided not to dock. My mini JRT X Chihuahua had pups in May and I didn't dock them. They looked so cute with their tails wagging away

wetdogsmell

i've seen it being done, a quick snip and a drop of blood and its all over, not a long drawn out job, down to personal taste but i would'nt have a boxer or rothy with a tail,

DeadlyByDesign

wetdogsmell wrote: »

i've seen it being done, a quick snip and a drop of blood and its all over, not a long drawn out job, down to personal taste but i would'nt have a boxer or rothy with a tail,

I Highly doubt that's all it is to the animal. Are you seriously suggesting that hacking off a limb is not going to traumatise the dog in anyway. Maybe that's all it is to you but what about the dog? How do you know how they are feeling? How would you like your finger cut off? Sure that's just a "quick snip and a drop of blood" as well.

Nino Brown

DeadlyByDesign wrote: »

Look at the end of the day anyone says that you should cut off part of an animal to make more aesthetiacally pleasing to the eye, needs their head seen to. YOu are suggesting hacking a limb from an animal to make it more "pretty" the notion is ludacris.

Thats a bit of an exaggeration, by your logic it's wrong for women to put holes in their ears and hang pieces of metal from them for aesthetics, some people are circumcised, its that really such a big deal? Some animals/people have tattoo's, horses have steel shoes hammered onto their feet, bulls have their horns removed.
My point is the bodies of both humans and animals have been altered for both aesthetics and practical reasons for a long time now, while you may not agree with some of these things, let's not sensationalize the ones you don't agree with.
I agree that the topic should be debated and proper research done to determine the ill effect if any to the animal, but let's all be rational about it.

wetdogsmell

DeadlyByDesign wrote: »

I Highly doubt that's all it is to the animal. Are you seriously suggesting that hacking off a limb is not going to traumatise the dog in anyway. Maybe that's all it is to you but what about the dog? How do you know how they are feeling? How would you like your finger cut off? Sure that's just a "quick snip and a drop of blood" as well.

if my finger was cut off when i was 3 days old i don't think it would have efected my life in anyway, depending on which finger it was it might affect my ability to hold stuff but a pup does'nt need its tail to hold stuff, as for effecting pups, i can only go by the nearly 100 pups i've seen docked that were running around playing a minute later, but who can say for sure either way

Bullseye1

DeadlyByDesign wrote: »

I Highly doubt that's all it is to the animal. Are you seriously suggesting that hacking off a limb is not going to traumatise the dog in anyway. Maybe that's all it is to you but what about the dog? How do you know how they are feeling? How would you like your finger cut off? Sure that's just a "quick snip and a drop of blood" as well.

I would assume the vet administers a local. Wouldnt be much different than having a circumcision.

seamus

wetdogsmell wrote: »

if my finger was cut off when i was 3 days old i don't think it would have efected my life in anyway, depending on which finger it was it might affect my ability to hold stuff but a pup does'nt need its tail to hold stuff,

No, however a dog like most animals lacking complex vocal chords like ours, uses complex body language signals to communicate with other dogs, particularly when it comes to displaying aggression/submission. A tail plays a pivotal role in this as positioning and movement of the tail signals to other animals about the dog's intention. Anecdotally, owners of docked animals - particular large dogs like Rotties and Boxers - report that the dogs are subject to more aggression and attacks from other dogs than their non-docked dogs are.

Removing a dog's tail is the human equivalent of deliberately giving someone a cleft palate - they'll be able to function normally, but they will have difficulty communicating easily with others.

Exactly like circumcision, it's an unecessary mutilation carried out by people who are grossly misinformed.

Graces7

Do they chop them, or is like the dreadful rubber bands they use on lambs?

Phenix

[HTML]by your logic it's wrong for women to put holes in their ears and hang pieces of metal from them for aesthetics[/HTML]

the above reference and also human tatoo reference's are irrelevant. I got my own ears pierced and my own tatoos - my decisions. i was not hauled off at 2 days old to the tatoo shop!
dogs dont have tails for the hell of it, they use them for communicaton. to cut off a pups tail for no other reason than 'i think it looks better that way' is down right selfish and moronic!
oh i think cats would look better without a left ear......lets cut all kittens left ears off :mad:
a dog should only have its tail removed BY A VET for medical resons!

Feargal as Luimneach

Graces7 wrote: »

Do they chop them, or is like the dreadful rubber bands they use on lambs?

At least docking lambs tails is done for a proper reason: preventing fly strike. Dogs tails are cut.

morganafay

wetdogsmell wrote: »

i've seen it being done, a quick snip and a drop of blood and its all over, not a long drawn out job, down to personal taste but i would'nt have a boxer or rothy with a tail,

I've heard differently, like a LOT of blood and puppies crying in pain for ages . . .

morganafay

But what's the point of doing it just because people think it looks better? Just, why would you bother?

wetdogsmell

seamus wrote: »

No, however a dog like most animals lacking complex vocal chords like ours, uses complex body language signals to communicate with other dogs, particularly when it comes to displaying aggression/submission. A tail plays a pivotal role in this as positioning and movement of the tail signals to other animals about the dog's intention. Anecdotally, owners of docked animals - particular large dogs like Rotties and Boxers - report that the dogs are subject to more aggression and attacks from other dogs than their non-docked dogs are.

Removing a dog's tail is the human equivalent of deliberately giving someone a cleft palate - they'll be able to function normally, but they will have difficulty communicating easily with others.

Exactly like circumcision, it's an unecessary mutilation carried out by people who are grossly misinformed.

i have 4 terriers with docked tails and they have never had a problem,

a cleft pallet afects more than just your speach

i did'nt say anything about circumcision but i think its a personal choice and some people get it for hygine reasons, i think your GROSSLY MISINFORMED

seamus

wetdogsmell wrote: »

a cleft pallet afects more than just your speach

As does a docked tail. A tail has also been linked to use while swimming and for balance.

i did'nt say anything about circumcision but i think its a personal choice and some people get it for hygine reasons, i think your GROSSLY MISINFORMED

I brought it up because someone compared the docking procedure as being as painless as circumcision. When performed on young, yes it is. But doing something to one's body or an animal's body which is not medically required, is mutilation, plain and simple. All of the excuses and reasons are misguided or just plain ignorant.

Graces7

I remember a thread about this way back; some breeds eg hunting dogs, were docked ( tails) because the tails could be damaged in thick undergrowth; I think it was someone with a spaniel (???) whose dog ripped his tail apart thus.

But to do it for cosmetic reasons? Reminds me of the appalling declawing fo cats that is still done in the US.

It is mutilation for human ??? convenience?? fashion??

Inflicted; not chosen like eg tattoos.

Reminds me too of the debate re electric shock collars.. in our new home, the fields we run the dogs in are cattle fields with electric fences.. someone defended the shock collars by saying it was no worse than them.. I caught my arm on a cattle fence last week and such a jolt.. as did one of the dogs later.

Inflicting pain for non-necessary reasons is less than human.

And yes; tails are so expressive for a dog.Tails forever;)