Should I dock the tails of my Rottweiler pups

buckled

I know this a touchy subject that has been discussed many times before, so I don't want to start argument with regards to whether it is morally wrong or right.

My Rottweiler bitch had puppies yesterday morning and I'm between two minds as to whether I should get their tails docked or not.

Rotties tails are normally docked and I would like to leave the tails on but I'm worried that I might not be able to sell them. So if your a fan of rotties, please let me know what you think, On or Off?

seamus

A docked dog cannot be shown in the UK. If you want to sell your dogs, don't dock them as docking is not longer regarded as necessary by any of the kennel clubs.

Any fan of Rotties will always tell you to leave the tails on. There's no need to remove a puppy's tail, ever.

tinkerbell

^^ I completely agree Seamus - a dog is born with a tail, it is there for a reason. I never understand why people dock their puppy's tail, leave it on! They need it!

Cherry Blossom

Personally wouldn't touch a dog with a docked tail!

morganafay

You might have trouble selling them with long tails, but do you really want to sell them to someone who only wants one with a docked tail? I'm sure some people would want them with long tails, I know I would.

My friend had a litter of boxers and she got a vet nurse to come to her house to dock the tails. She thought it wouldn't hurt them, as a lot of people said, but she said it was horrible and she'd never do it again. The puppies were crying in pain, there was loads of blood, etc. Her next litter were all left with long tails and then she got her dogs neutered because she never wanted to dock their tails again.

If you're having doubts and don't feel right doing it, then I wouldn't do it . . .

mymo

Please leave them, I was at a show in the UK at easter and the Rotties had tails and looked so lovely.
I was talking to a lady who said she thought they looked more friendly and approachable too, which I could see too.
I would love a rottie one day, and would definitely only take one with a tail.

boomerang

Leave them on. I've met a few Rotties that weren't docked and their tails are lovely - an otter-like, Labrador tail. It really suits them and it's great to see them able to wag!

Genuine Rottie lovers won't mind the tail.

Phenix

dont doc them, i think you will have absolutly no problem selling them with their tails intact.
personally i would only buy a dog if they have not been docked!!

ps can u put up pics tails n all pls

andreac

seamus wrote: »

A docked dog cannot be shown in the UK. If you want to sell your dogs, don't dock them as docking is not longer regarded as necessary by any of the kennel clubs.

Any fan of Rotties will always tell you to leave the tails on. There's no need to remove a puppy's tail, ever.

Sorry but that is not true. Docked dogs after 6th April 2007 cannot be shown at shows in UK where the public pay in eg Crufts.

They can be shown at all shows in the Northern Ireland, Scotland and any shows in England and Wales where the public dont pay in so its only a certain number of shows where you cant show.
I show my rottie so i know the above is true.

You will find it very hard to sell pups with tails, trust me. There are a lot of people in the UK coming to Ireland to get dcked rottie pups.Im not getting into a debate about docking but just saying you will find it hard to sell them with tails.

Are they well bred pups or just pets? If their pedigree is good and there would be a chance people want to show them in Ireland you will find they will want them docked.

Hope this helps.:)

Jinxi

Why not do a bit of market research and advertise the pups now. Ask the potential owners if they want their pups docked or not docked?
I think the comment on wether they are showing/breeding/pets is a good one. Not everyone wants their pets to be shown!

cotton

I wouldn't touch a pup with a docked tail either.

suziwalsh

100% don't dock their tails. Apart from all the behavioural and medical reasons not to do it. They look so much better and I truely believe over the next few years it will be more common to see rotties with a full tail.

buckled

andreac wrote: »

You will find it very hard to sell pups with tails, trust me. There are a lot of people in the UK coming to Ireland to get dcked rottie pups.Im not getting into a debate about docking but just saying you will find it hard to sell them with tails.

That’s my worry and as you can imagine rotties aren't the most popular dog (even though they’re the best:D) so I want to give them the best chance of finding a good home, that’s why I want to get the opinion of rottie fans and owners. However I do value everybody’s opinion.

andreac wrote: »

Are they well bred pups or just pets? If their pedigree is good and there would be a chance people want to show them in Ireland you will find they will want them docked.

They’re pure bred but not from a line of show dogs. They’re just family pets and great pets at that.

I’m kind of swaying in the direction of keeping them for the following reasons:
1. I spoke with the IKC and they said that you can show them both with and without tails in Ireland.
2. A guy rand this morning for a pup and he wants one with a tail.
3. As they are a misunderstood dog, a wagging tail is a good way of expressing their friendly intentions.

Anyway they will be 3 days old in the morning, so I’m going to have to make a decision tonight.

Thanks for the input and I’ll let ye all know tomorrow what decision I made.

kildara

I'm with all those who say don't dock.
We have a rottie with a tail. I like rotties with tails and alot of people have commented that when they see one with a tail they appear (as said above) more approachable.

Rottweilers can be shown in Ireland with a tail (always were allowed to but was quite rare), and it UK there are only a certain number of shows where you can show a docked dog (assuming they are docked after April 2007 as andreac mentioned above).

Keep their tails - more of them to love!

CreedonsDogDayc

Please don't!!!
Their are docked rottie puppies everywhere.
Its cruel and unnessissary.

There is lots of evidence that docked dogs are more likely to suffer from incontinence in later years (as the muscles aren't worked) and also, docked dogs suffer when communicating with other dogs / people with the absence of their tail.

When advertising the pups you can make it a feature of your ad 'We love our pups so we don't dock their tails' type of thing.

tesslab

nothing more beautiful than a Rottie with a full waggy tail!!:D

boxermad

i dont think long tails suits rotties or boxers,i personally will dock them as i had docked a litter of yorkies for my sis in law,

buckled

Thanks to everybody for their input. The majority of people will be glad to know that I have decided to leave them on . I'll post some pics shortly.

ISDW

boxermad wrote: »

i dont think long tails suits rotties or boxers,i personally will dock them as i had docked a litter of yorkies for my sis in law,

What do you mean, it doesn't suit them? They are born with tails, so of course it suits them. What you mean is that asthetically you prefer them to be mutilated.

I thought only vets were allowed to dock dog's tails? Obviously not, how did you do it?

antomagoo

Rotties with tails look fantastic!!!

We board our Rottie in Kilcullen where the owner breeds & shows Rotties and the ones with tails look great, nothing better than seeing a happy dog wagging its tail.

http://www.dogtrainingireland.ie/documents/why_taildocking_should_be_prohibited.pdf

kalie

Keep the tails.
I have a young boxer with a tail. At first i wasn't sure about it mainly because i'd never seen one with a tail but now i love it. I've seen a few rotties with tails, it looks great, makes them look more friendly.

seamus

ISDW wrote: »

I thought only vets were allowed to dock dog's tails? Obviously not, how did you do it?

He did describe the method, but I removed it from his post. Rest assured, it wasn't done surgically.

sligopark

Isn't docking only for intended working dogs and even with a vet within 3 days of birth?

Otherwise as I understand it it is painful and /or drwan out?

Irishchick

Tail docking isnt "cruel" if its done by a proper vet. You might not agree with it but when its done right it doesnt cause the pup any actual harm.

antomagoo

Irishchick wrote: »

Tail docking isnt "cruel" if its done by a proper vet. You might not agree with it but when its done right it doesnt cause the pup any actual harm.

It's still going to be painful and very unnecessary

fatmammycat

Define 'done right'. There is no need to slice the tail off any pup. And most vets oppose the act and with good reason. My own vet refuses point blank to dock any pup calling the practice 'outdated and needlessly cruel'.

Whispered

It was generally accepted until recently, but I think it's starting to become more frowned upon. Even though I know and respect people who dock, I would not touch a docked pup and I think it is cruel and unnecessary.

Most vets will not do it, so the chances of having a "proper" vet do it is slim. Even if they do, the procedure is the same and it's done without anesthesia as far as I'm aware (open to correction from a vet on this).

Pups usually do cry with pain on being docked and have a nervous system the same as a dog. It would be unacceptable to dock a fully grown dog for anything but medical reasons, and it would be completly unheard to do it without the dog being under anesthetic.

boxermad

ISDW wrote: »

What do you mean, it doesn't suit them? They are born with tails, so of course it suits them. What you mean is that asthetically you prefer them to be mutilated.

I thought only vets were allowed to dock dog's tails? Obviously not, how did you do it?

Method removed

ISDW

That is so outdated it is unbelievable, and also unbelievably cruel. Why not do the same to one of your fingers, and see how long it takes it to drop off, and whether you feel any pain or not. How can you seriously not think that cutting the blood circulation to a part of an animal's body is not painful?

I absolutely despair of people sometimes.

antomagoo

Method removed.

Its part of the animals anatomy for godsake

Once again I'll point you towards this link

http://www.dogtrainingireland.ie/documents/why_taildocking_should_be_prohibited.pdf

Feargal as Luimneach

Whispered wrote: »

It was generally accepted until recently, but I think it's starting to become more frowned upon. Even though I know and respect people who dock, I would not touch a docked pup and I think it is cruel and unnecessary.

Most vets will not do it, so the chances of having a "proper" vet do it is slim. Even if they do, the procedure is the same and it's done without anesthesia as far as I'm aware (open to correction from a vet on this).

Pups usually do cry with pain on being docked and have a nervous system the same as a dog. It would be unacceptable to dock a fully grown dog for anything but medical reasons, and it would be completly unheard to do it without the dog being under anesthetic.

You can put local anaesthetic in the tail before the tail is cut off. So they don't feel the amputation. Thay will however feel pain once it wears off.

Feargal as Luimneach

If would be less painfull to cut the tail off than to do the "method" you describe:(.

sligopark

Method removed.

sorry I would mgo that bit further and suggest such on one's d1ck

no need really I would think other than working dogs (ie bushing/shooting) and I know this might not be flavour of the month either

Hellrazer

Ive removed all references to the "method" that was suggested by Boxermad which I feel is bordering on breaching our cruelty against animals rule.

Try keep the cruel methods out of the thread.

morganafay

Feargal as Luimneach wrote: »

You can put local anaesthetic in the tail before the tail is cut off. So they don't feel the amputation. Thay will however feel pain once it wears off.

Do you think the local anaesthetic would stop all the pain?

Apparently if you just put local anaesthetic on the skin, it'll numb the skin but still hurt when you cut into it.

If the local anaesthetic is injected if might work better, but I had my hand cut open and stitched up with local anaesthetic (about 20 injections) and it still hurt a lot.

belongtojazz

I so much prefer to see a dog with a full tail. My jack has a full tail and I think it makes it much easier for me to judge her mood. Just because the tail is wagging doesn't mean they are happy the angle is very important which is much easier to read with a long tail

scudzilla

Not a Rottie but we have a boxer, a breed which used to be constantly docked.


Brodi is 12 months next month and has a tail, we would never have considered docking her, and when she has pups they will not be docked. If anybody even mentions they will dock them then they're not having one.

morganafay

She's so beautiful Scudzilla

I wish my springer had had a full tail. They've such nice tails. But he used to wag his tail as hard as he could anyway, and if he had a full tail he probably would have had all the cavaliers biting it, as they did to his ears anyway

Wisco

Please don't dock!
In order to have it done in Ireland, you'd have to do it yourself as no vet or vet nurse can legally perform this procedure any more as they risk being struck off the register if they do it. And as someone who's assisted during docking (not my choice, was part of the job)- they scream and bleed- trust me, it's very horrible to watch/listen to!
And who doesn't love a waggely tail?!

Sigma Force

buckled wrote: »

That’s my worry and as you can imagine rotties aren't the most popular dog (even though they’re the best:D) so I want to give them the best chance of finding a good home, that’s why I want to get the opinion of rottie fans and owners. However I do value everybody’s opinion.

They’re pure bred but not from a line of show dogs. They’re just family pets and great pets at that.

I’m kind of swaying in the direction of keeping them for the following reasons:
1. I spoke with the IKC and they said that you can show them both with and without tails in Ireland.
2. A guy rand this morning for a pup and he wants one with a tail.
3. As they are a misunderstood dog, a wagging tail is a good way of expressing their friendly intentions.

Anyway they will be 3 days old in the morning, so I’m going to have to make a decision tonight.

Thanks for the input and I’ll let ye all know tomorrow what decision I made.

Although you can show them without in Ireland things hopefully will be changing, plus as you said these are pets not show dogs anyway so keeping the tails shouldn't effect the sale of the pups if you are selling them to genuine rottie lovers who want the dog for their personality/general overall look and not for their tail.

Some vets will refuse to dock tails in Ireland now thank god, it's also a brief but painful procedure you'd be basically maiming the puppies for no reason at all.

lrushe

Wisco wrote: »

In order to have it done in Ireland, you'd have to do it yourself as no vet or vet nurse can legally perform this procedure any more as they risk being struck off the register if they do it.

This is not true, there are vets still willing to do it, I've even found it advertised:

Tail-docking ( 2 – 4 days) €20.00
Tail-docking (pups over 5 days) €30.00

ADAlliance

Veterinary Ireland policy - 'mutilations such as ear cropping and tail docking of dogs, which are done for cosmetic purposes are considered ethically unacceptable and Veterinary Surgeons should refrain from performing these techniques'
The advertisement quote should be sent to the professionaly conduct department of VI for investigation

Feargal as Luimneach

morganafay wrote: »

Do you think the local anaesthetic would stop all the pain?

Apparently if you just put local anaesthetic on the skin, it'll numb the skin but still hurt when you cut into it.

If the local anaesthetic is injected if might work better, but I had my hand cut open and stitched up with local anaesthetic (about 20 injections) and it still hurt a lot.

I didn't say on the tail. I said in the tail, as in subcut.:rolleyes:

boxerly

NO NO NO please leave their tails alone.I took in a rottie pup a few weeks ago who had a full tail and the amount of people who commented was unreal.Some people actually thought they were born with no tail and when they saw hers they thought cutting their tails was very cruel.Alot of people love rotties with tails.I saw boxer pups with botched up docking it was terrible I can still hear remember the terrible sight I saw and the pain the poor pups were in:(You have to do what is right for the dogs,If people dont want them with tails then dont breed them,simple!

lrushe

ADAlliance wrote: »

Veterinary Ireland policy - 'mutilations such as ear cropping and tail docking of dogs, which are done for cosmetic purposes are considered ethically unacceptable and Veterinary Surgeons should refrain from performing these techniques'

The Vererinary Association certainly does seem to condemn the practice but to me that quote sounds more of a recommendation than an instruction, its seems open to interpretation?

DeadlyByDesign

Look at the end of the day anyone says that you should cut off part of an animal to make more aesthetiacally pleasing to the eye, needs their head seen to. YOu are suggesting hacking a limb from an animal to make it more "pretty" the notion is ludacris.

January

Glad you decided not to dock. My mini JRT X Chihuahua had pups in May and I didn't dock them. They looked so cute with their tails wagging away

wetdogsmell

i've seen it being done, a quick snip and a drop of blood and its all over, not a long drawn out job, down to personal taste but i would'nt have a boxer or rothy with a tail,

DeadlyByDesign

wetdogsmell wrote: »

i've seen it being done, a quick snip and a drop of blood and its all over, not a long drawn out job, down to personal taste but i would'nt have a boxer or rothy with a tail,

I Highly doubt that's all it is to the animal. Are you seriously suggesting that hacking off a limb is not going to traumatise the dog in anyway. Maybe that's all it is to you but what about the dog? How do you know how they are feeling? How would you like your finger cut off? Sure that's just a "quick snip and a drop of blood" as well.

Nino Brown

DeadlyByDesign wrote: »

Look at the end of the day anyone says that you should cut off part of an animal to make more aesthetiacally pleasing to the eye, needs their head seen to. YOu are suggesting hacking a limb from an animal to make it more "pretty" the notion is ludacris.

Thats a bit of an exaggeration, by your logic it's wrong for women to put holes in their ears and hang pieces of metal from them for aesthetics, some people are circumcised, its that really such a big deal? Some animals/people have tattoo's, horses have steel shoes hammered onto their feet, bulls have their horns removed.
My point is the bodies of both humans and animals have been altered for both aesthetics and practical reasons for a long time now, while you may not agree with some of these things, let's not sensationalize the ones you don't agree with.
I agree that the topic should be debated and proper research done to determine the ill effect if any to the animal, but let's all be rational about it.

wetdogsmell

DeadlyByDesign wrote: »

I Highly doubt that's all it is to the animal. Are you seriously suggesting that hacking off a limb is not going to traumatise the dog in anyway. Maybe that's all it is to you but what about the dog? How do you know how they are feeling? How would you like your finger cut off? Sure that's just a "quick snip and a drop of blood" as well.

if my finger was cut off when i was 3 days old i don't think it would have efected my life in anyway, depending on which finger it was it might affect my ability to hold stuff but a pup does'nt need its tail to hold stuff, as for effecting pups, i can only go by the nearly 100 pups i've seen docked that were running around playing a minute later, but who can say for sure either way