Irish Motorway Speed Limits should be Increased.

limklad

150 on all Motorways ( excluding passing large urban areas )

stevenmu wrote: »

It's a good idea, and I'd completely agree with it. Modern cars can easily handle this speed safely in a motorway environment.

But...
I don't think this would fix this problem. People would still drive in the right hand lane at 120kph (and usually less) simply because they don't see anything wrong in doing so. I think the only way to reduce this would be to enforce a minimum speed of say 140kph. Otherwise their would regularly be right-lane-hoggers trundling along at 100kph with people approaching them at 160kph. This would also need to be enforced as toughly as the speed limit would be.

I rather have 140kph than 160kph and in addition to that I would love to see automatic 4 penalty points for people who just drive on the overtaking lanes when the driving lane is free. We spend a heck of a lot of money on our road infrastructures over the last 2 dacades than have idiots blocking the overtaking lanes and holding up traffic causing dangerous conditions for a serious crash.

Atomic Pineapple

160 on all Motorways ( excluding passing large urban areas )

If the driver education system was completely redesigned from the ground up and not just getting pathetic additions like a theory test and stupid conditions added to it every now and then, then we could start to see a huge improvement in Irish road users ability to drive.

This will thus increase the ability of Irish drivers to drive faster, this in turn will help educate people who have a fear of increasing numbers on their speedometer be able to handle it and in turn stop them from being a hinderance to more confident drivers.

It will also improve their ability to adjust to motorways and the increased speed they allow.

When this is done you could then easily have limits of 140/160km/h on motorways without any fear at all, but the current state of driver ability in Ireland is so poor that increasing the speed will only lead to more accidents that will ironically be caused by the people driving slow.

Cookie_Monster

150 on all Motorways ( excluding passing large urban areas )

draffodx wrote: »

If the driver education system was completely redesigned from the ground up and not just getting pathetic additions like a theory test and stupid conditions added to it every now and then, then we could start to see a huge improvement in Irish road users ability to drive.

you'd still need to wait until the current generation was off the roads. IT would be next to impossible to pursued people who already have licences to accept the new scheme, especially if it required retrain, retesting etc.

limklad

150 on all Motorways ( excluding passing large urban areas )

kippy wrote: »

160 is a tad on the dangerous side all things considered.
Very few in this country have any motorway driving practical training and none have ANY "Speed" training whatsoever as most driving test areas (and hence lessons) are in built up areas.

No Irish drivers licence have any Motorways training experience.
There is nothing stopping you from driving on the speed you want on the driving lane on the motorway. Just because certain individuals cannot handle speed on a motorway should not mean you should hold others back who can do it safety with built up experience with motorway driving.

kippy wrote: »

Also, theres only one country in the EU that I can see that has a limit more than that or even close to it and that is Germany, which is very much the exception to the rules across the EU.
120 actually appears to be the standard on most with some at 130.

The reason why Germany have no speed limits on their Auto-Bahn is they built the road to handle those conditions and keep them maintained and can afford to maintained them. They have dedicate road Maintenance crews out inspecting the roads everyday and removing any debris. Here in Ireland we can barley afford to build a road no mind a dedicate road Maintenance crew. New Motorways on opening days are full of small loose stones that are suppose to be clean on open day.

kippy wrote: »

I would advocate better driver training and better rules of the road enforcement, than increasing the speed limits to be honest.

Good luck in telling that to the government. Since they create the Traffic Corps I have seen less enforcement of Irish Road laws and more blantent breaches of the rules of the road by most drivers, especially those who abide by the speed limits. Just because people there are slow drivers do not mean they are good drivers. There is a huge difference. I do not need to tell about those who speed about breaching the rules of the road, we all know about those. I have seen many slow drivers driving over two lanes in 24 hour bus lane, pull out in front of other cars without making sure the lane is clear, breaking red lights, poor parking, failing to stop at a stop sign, reckless abandonment of cars, etc.

Atomic Pineapple

160 on all Motorways ( excluding passing large urban areas )

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

you'd still need to wait until the current generation was off the roads. IT would be next to impossible to pursued people who already have licences to accept the new scheme, especially if it required retrain, retesting etc.

Thats why the government wont do it, that and the cost involved.

But a retest for many on the road would solve a lot of problems.

Sikie

150 on all Motorways ( excluding passing large urban areas )

120 kph is the limit which takes the current mix into account.
They all have been mentioned average condition of the road surfaces, average weather conditions, capability of the average car, state of repair of the nations cars/trucks, increased fuel consumption by raising the national average speed, increased breakdown rates, wear rates on roads etc.
There are days on empty stretches of our newest motorways 120kph seems just too slow.
Politically can’t see anybody sticking their neck out to propose an increase. My compromise is since all the motorways are tolled except the M9 and they are looking to change that a supplemental speed toll could be introduced allowing you to do speeds up to 140/160kph. With number plate cameras between the points allowed by the speed toll its automatically policed

Saruman

150 on all Motorways ( excluding passing large urban areas )

I am in favour of 140kph myself. I reckon 160kph is a little fast. To be honest if the limit was 160 I would set the cruise control to 140 and relax.

That said I suppose it depends on the car. I know my car can handle 160kph but it does not feel as stable as 140kph and there is no difference in stability and feel of my car at 140 and 120.

As others have said, I want penalty points and enforcement for overaking lane hoggers.

I also want the roads that used to be N roads with 100kph limits but downgraded because of motorways and automatically given 80kph limits to get their 100kph limits back. Stupid lazy local authorities did not do anything about it and we have roads that are built for 100kph speeds with 80kph speeds because of a technicality and nothing to do with safety.

Likewise country boreens with 80 to 100 kph limits? Mental...

limklad

150 on all Motorways ( excluding passing large urban areas )

Mr.David wrote: »

I think it would be positive, except for the impact in terms of vastly increased fuel usage (and hence CO2 output) if people changed from 120 to 160.

Still though, if it saves me 15mins let the poxy ice caps melt!

Do not worry about the ice caps, the Greens will get us electric cars, with all the hot air blowing around due to global warming, they will keep the wind turbines running and just add an extra wind turbine in the Dail to prop up supply and we can just land a large cable to Sellafield and drain their nuclear power when we need it.

limklad

150 on all Motorways ( excluding passing large urban areas )

unkel wrote: »

Fatal accidents on motorways are very rare. But this seems hard for some people to comprehend. People drive fast on motorways, so surely it is more dangerous? Eh, no it isn't. Driving like a maniac (but possibly within the speed limit) on a country road is dangerous.

I fully agree with this, RSA statics support this.

Alun

limklad wrote: »

... and we can just land a large cable to Sellafield and drain their nuclear power when we need it.

Which won't do you any good as they stopped producing any nuclear power on that site ages ago :rolleyes:

Cookie_Monster

150 on all Motorways ( excluding passing large urban areas )

limklad wrote: »

Do not worry about the ice caps, the Greens will get us electric cars, with all the hot air blowing around due to global warming, they will keep the wind turbines running and just add an extra wind turbine in the Dail to prop up supply and we can just land a large cable to Sellafield and drain their nuclear power when we need it.

Selafield is a nuclear waste facility, not a power plant

limklad

150 on all Motorways ( excluding passing large urban areas )

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Selafield is a nuclear waste facility, not a power plant

There are building a new Nuclear plant there, It is currently the only site where there is no large scale objections by locals, since the area is already contaminated.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/jan/23/sellafield-nuclear-gordon-brown

kippy

limklad wrote: »

No Irish drivers licence have any Motorways training experience.
There is nothing stopping you from driving on the speed you want on the driving lane on the motorway. Just because certain individuals cannot handle speed on a motorway should not mean you should hold others back who can do it safety with built up experience with motorway driving.

The reason why Germany have no speed limits on their Auto-Bahn is they built the road to handle those conditions and keep them maintained and can afford to maintained them. They have dedicate road Maintenance crews out inspecting the roads everyday and removing any debris. Here in Ireland we can barley afford to build a road no mind a dedicate road Maintenance crew. New Motorways on opening days are full of small loose stones that are suppose to be clean on open day.

Good luck in telling that to the government. Since they create the Traffic Corps I have seen less enforcement of Irish Road laws and more blantent breaches of the rules of the road by most drivers, especially those who abide by the speed limits. Just because people there are slow drivers do not mean they are good drivers. There is a huge difference. I do not need to tell about those who speed about breaching the rules of the road, we all know about those. I have seen many slow drivers driving over two lanes in 24 hour bus lane, pull out in front of other cars without making sure the lane is clear, breaking red lights, poor parking, failing to stop at a stop sign, reckless abandonment of cars, etc.

I am not getting your point? Are you advocating higher speed limit, leaving them the same or reducing them?

Some drivers in this country (I can only assume) learned to drive and passed their tests in other countries. I would hope that some countries have aspects of their tests around motorway driving. I realise fully that anyone who has gone through the Irish system doesnt have this.

I've seen horrors on the roads to.

Its mad how everyone continues to mention German in discussions like this. Its fairly obvious that Germany is the exception to the general rules across the EU. In most EU states the amx driving speed is 130K (with the odd one at 140) but most around the 120 mark, like ourselves.
I am not advocating slow driving on the motorway or those who arent comfortable at higher speeds holding others up however if people were more aware (trained) better this would not be a problem.

Good luck telling the government? I've begun telling my local TD's of late what I want to see them doing in this country. Asking them to increase the amount of people getting caught for relatively minor traffic offences (like the ones you speak of for instance) isnt top of that list at that moment........neither is increasing the speed limits to above that of eu averages.

limklad

150 on all Motorways ( excluding passing large urban areas )

OldmanMondeo wrote: »

Raise the limit to all lanes or don't raise it at all. There are 2 many drivers who do not know / understand how to drive on a motorway as it is. Look at the threads on lane changing, using roundabouts with 2 or more lanes etc...

We need to educate before we can progress.

Oh and I do agree with raising speed limits.

We need them to repeat their driving test every 10 years.

Also have Road simulators and simulate all kinds of road conditions and dangerous conditions and judge the way they handle their cars. It is not hard to get a car body, add some computer graphics with large screens with projectors all around the car body and have the car sensors connected to each control. Put in good quality cameras at different angles to observe the driver and record the events and playback to the driver. It easy then to implemented a pre-road test without risk to other road users. For example when they get into the car, do they adjust the mirrors and seat to suit them? Do they use the mirrors properly and often to be aware of other road users around them. Simulate losing control of their car on ice or wet conditions on motorways and other roads. Simulate how they react on Motorway, See how they deal with slow and fast drivers. Do they tail gate? Do they leave enough stopping distance between them and the car in front. Do they change lanes properly, do they overtake safely on a Motorway? Do they overlane hog? By recording all of this, the Test driving Instructor can review the video of the various camera views on the same screen and record all faults caused by the Test driver. It is easy to review video afterwards and show them how they failed. Most Game machines have more than enough power to create driving simulators, especially since they are flight and racing simulators on the simple electronic game machines.

Cookie_Monster

150 on all Motorways ( excluding passing large urban areas )

limklad wrote: »

Also have Road simulators and simulate all kinds of road conditions and dangerous conditions and judge the way they handle their cars. It is not hard to get a car body, add some computer graphics with large screens with projectors all around the car body and have the car sensors connected to each control. Put in good quality cameras at different angles to observe the driver and record the events and playback to the driver. It easy then to implemented a pre-road test without risk to other road users. For example when they get into the car, do they adjust the mirrors and seat to suit them? Do they use the mirrors properly and often to be aware of other road users around them. Simulate losing control of their car on ice or wet conditions on motorways and other roads. Simulate how they react on Motorway, See how they deal with slow and fast drivers. Do they tail gate? Do they leave enough stopping distance between them and the car in front. Do they change lanes properly, do they overtake safely on a Motorway? Do they overlane hog? By recording all of this, the Test driving Instructor can review the video of the various camera views on the same screen and record all faults caused by the Test driver. It is easy to review video afterwards and show them how they failed. Most Game machines have more than enough power to create driving simulators, especially since they are flight and racing simulators on the simple electronic game machines.

but of course everyone would do all that in a simulator. and nobody would go above 120 or flash morons to get out of the way like they do in real life

limklad

150 on all Motorways ( excluding passing large urban areas )

kippy wrote: »

I am not getting your point? Are you advocating higher speed limit, leaving them the same or reducing them?

Increasing to 140kph.

kippy wrote: »

Some drivers in this country (I can only assume) learned to drive and passed their tests in other countries.
I would hope that some countries have aspects of their tests around motorway driving. I realise fully that anyone who has gone through the Irish system doesnt have this.

A very small minority. No body in this country who pass a driver test here have motorway experience, neither is it on the Driving exam as Learner drivers are banned from motorway.

kippy wrote: »

I've seen horrors on the roads to.

We are not talking about Normal/Local Roads speed adjustments where the vast majority of horrors Road crashes happen where people speed inappropriate to the road conditions despite been within the speed limit at the time of the accident. Motorway have by far the lowest amount of crashes throughout the world. We are only talking about Motorway roads upper limits adjustments only. It amazing when people talking about Motorway speed they instantly ass horror crashes to it without any proof to back up their miss-assumptions.

kippy wrote: »

Its mad how everyone continues to mention German in discussions like this. Its fairly obvious that Germany is the exception to the general rules across the EU. In most EU states the amx driving speed is 130K (with the odd one at 140) but most around the 120 mark, like ourselves.
I am not advocating slow driving on the motorway or those who arent comfortable at higher speeds holding others up however if people were more aware (trained) better this would not be a problem.

It is not mad talking about Germany, since they are the only ones no upper speed limits on Auto-bahn expect when maintenance is occurring. They are very revelent to our discussions since they have road speed experience.
I definitely advocating banning slow drivers from motorway with a lower limit of 90/100kph minimum and penalty points of 4 for them as they are very dangerous on the Motorway and have no confidence either in their car or their own driving ability to drive on the Motorway. Motorways are built for speed and to get from one side of the country to the other. If they want to drive slow they can do it on National roads, the old national/local roads are still there where the vast majority of road crashes are.

kippy wrote: »

Good luck telling the government? I've begun telling my local TD's of late what I want to see them doing in this country. Asking them to increase the amount of people getting caught for relatively minor traffic offences (like the ones you speak of for instance) isnt top of that list at that moment........neither is increasing the speed limits to above that of eu averages.

With most TD's, it is in one ear and out with the other and they give out bull to brush people off with the odd statement in the press which means
nothing in the real world when it comes to action, just hot air.
Most speed tickets by the Gardai are on Good wide quality straight roads leading into towns and villages where the speeds limits are way outside the towns/villages where there was little accidents. For example the Condell Road in Limerick was originally 60mph and change to 50mph/80kph and now 60kph for a wide stretch, No houses, just roundabouts for road junctions. It is not an accident spot, yet at Black accidents spots in which the gardai are beginning to get the message, it is there (Black accidents spots) they should be catching bad drivers for a litany of other road offences, not just speeding alone.

djimi

limklad wrote: »

We need them to repeat their driving test every 10 years.

Also have Road simulators and simulate all kinds of road conditions and dangerous conditions and judge the way they handle their cars. It is not hard to get a car body, add some computer graphics with large screens with projectors all around the car body and have the car sensors connected to each control. Put in good quality cameras at different angles to observe the driver and record the events and playback to the driver. It easy then to implemented a pre-road test without risk to other road users. For example when they get into the car, do they adjust the mirrors and seat to suit them? Do they use the mirrors properly and often to be aware of other road users around them. Simulate losing control of their car on ice or wet conditions on motorways and other roads. Simulate how they react on Motorway, See how they deal with slow and fast drivers. Do they tail gate? Do they leave enough stopping distance between them and the car in front. Do they change lanes properly, do they overtake safely on a Motorway? Do they overlane hog? By recording all of this, the Test driving Instructor can review the video of the various camera views on the same screen and record all faults caused by the Test driver. It is easy to review video afterwards and show them how they failed. Most Game machines have more than enough power to create driving simulators, especially since they are flight and racing simulators on the simple electronic game machines.

I agree with your sentiments, but I think if it was as simple and cost effective as just building simulators then they would be used a lot more than they are.

limklad

150 on all Motorways ( excluding passing large urban areas )

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

but of course everyone would do all that in a simulator. and nobody would go above 120 or flash morons to get out of the way like they do in real life

That where road enforcements and penalty points should be introduced to punish bad driving.
No I am talking about testing experience and competence driving By introducing road hazard into the simulator to get an immediate response to judge their conditioned/learnt behaviour response, such as another car temporarily getting out of control or slippery road driving or other drivers poor driving such as yo-yoing their speed, pulling out without indicating. Mothers dangerously pulling out infront of you with kids unrestrained in their car. Reckless overtaking, fast cars (business/rich and boy/girl racers) overtaking at high speed. Basic Real simulation of real life driving on the roads. It is only then you find out the confident drivers from the poor drivers. After all, the RSA mention in their Ads "Expect the unexpected". It is about time they recommend better Training and proper Testing of Drivers and add Motorway driving in Simulators for learners drivers since they are not allow on Motorway.
In reality on Irish Roads, I be very surprise to see a day that they be no bad driving. That day I be shocked as it would be unexpected. :eek:
More than likely I be the only one on the road which would be nice.

keithclancy

limklad wrote: »

We need them to repeat their driving test every 10 years.

Well considering the wait for existing drivers, re-testing every 10 years wouldnt really be feasible.

kippy

limklad wrote: »

Increasing to 140kph.



A very small minority. No body in this country who pass a driver test here have motorway experience, neither is it on the Driving exam as Learner drivers are banned from motorway.


We are not talking about Normal/Local Roads speed adjustments where the vast majority of horrors Road crashes happen where people speed inappropriate to the road conditions despite been within the speed limit at the time of the accident. Motorway have by far the lowest amount of crashes throughout the world. We are only talking about Motorway roads upper limits adjustments only. It amazing when people talking about Motorway speed they instantly ass horror crashes to it without any proof to back up their miss-assumptions.


It is not mad talking about Germany, since they are the only ones no upper speed limits on Auto-bahn expect when maintenance is occurring. They are very revelent to our discussions since they have road speed experience.
I definitely advocating banning slow drivers from motorway with a lower limit of 90/100kph minimum and penalty points of 4 for them as they are very dangerous on the Motorway and have no confidence either in their car or their own driving ability to drive on the Motorway. Motorways are built for speed and to get from one side of the country to the other. If they want to drive slow they can do it on National roads, the old national/local roads are still there where the vast majority of road crashes are.

With most TD's, it is in one ear and out with the other and they give out bull to brush people off with the odd statement in the press which means
nothing in the real world when it comes to action, just hot air.
Most speed tickets by the Gardai are on Good wide quality straight roads leading into towns and villages where the speeds limits are way outside the towns/villages where there was little accidents. For example the Condell Road in Limerick was originally 60mph and change to 50mph/80kph and now 60kph for a wide stretch, No houses, just roundabouts for road junctions. It is not an accident spot, yet at Black accidents spots in which the gardai are beginning to get the message, it is there (Black accidents spots) they should be catching bad drivers for a litany of other road offences, not just speeding alone.

I agree with the majority of your sentiments.
However -
Still dont get why we are trying to go with the German model when what we are trying to achieve is far closer (ie a speed limit) to the remainder of the EU.

Also, almost the only way to change things in this country at present is via your local representative. If enought people are making representations to him/her they have no choice but to do something about it.

limklad

150 on all Motorways ( excluding passing large urban areas )

kippy wrote: »

I agree with the majority of your sentiments.
However -
Still dont get why we are trying to go with the German model when what we are trying to achieve is far closer (ie a speed limit) to the remainder of the EU.

Also, almost the only way to change things in this country at present is via your local representative. If enought people are making representations to him/her they have no choice but to do something about it.

I am not proposing a German model as we cannot afford the Maintenance that they put into their roads. 140kph is fine in dry/light rain weather. Look at their data using to justify to allow Motorway speed to 140kph. They too have low accident rate on the Auto-Bahn http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autobahn#Crash_evaluation in compare to our roads in total.
despite some horror crashes with crashes cause by slower cars pulling in front of Fast cars or after heavy rain or blinding sunshine on top of that as happen last year which caused a historic 259 car pile-up.
http://jalopnik.com/5318399/259+car-autobahn-pile+up-largest-in-german-history

In reality a lot of people are travelling well above 120kph on the Motorway here. I see it constantly when travelling between Limerick and Dublin on Motorways been passed out easily by all types of cars when I am travelling at 120kph. RSA figures show that there is very low accidents on Motorway despite the speed.

limklad

150 on all Motorways ( excluding passing large urban areas )

keithclancy wrote: »

Well considering the wait for existing drivers, re-testing every 10 years wouldnt really be feasible.

If we want to drop road deaths and accident then it must be made feasible. If the Government actually want to drop death/injuries and accidents then they must revamp our driving Test Centres and add Simulator for Motorway driving to give drivers a clue how good or bad their driving actual is and really test them rather than the simple Driving Test that is there now.
I propose, To repeat a driving Test for Full time drivers, they should be Theory and Simulated driving with unexpected events (different scenarios including night time driving) and an inspection of their car.
For Learners Divers, Use A series of stages and must pass each stage to proceed. Theory, Simulated driving, an inspection of their own car, Real world driving and test as it is now, Simulated driving with unexpected events (different scenarios) including night time and motorway driving. Replace the L Plates with L1 (Real World driving, day time only, no motorway) , L2 on their own at daylight hours with Night Time and Motorway access(with full licence holder as passenger).

I suppose a changing of the wheel and performing simple checks of the car, such as oil/lights/water would be out of the question for alot of the population these days. :rolleyes: well, not on the Motorway anyway. :eek:

SouperComputer

160 is too high IMO. The speed by itself is fine, the problem as other have pointed out is entrance ramps, merging and the fact that a lot of cars will need to flog their b***ox to get upto speed in reasonable time. Plus a lot of these same cars really should not be spending prolonged time at 160. Like many, I always make a distinction between "Speeding" and "inappropriate use of speed". IMO if you take a typical car and driver on the Irish roads, 160KPH is going to be an inappropriate speed, even given ideal road and weather conditions.

Personally, I'm fine driving at those speeds and well above, but I dont expect others to be.

jock101

130 on all Motorways ( excluding passing large urban areas )

120km/h is the best limit speed for Motorways or Toll roads as they really are, anyway theres no need to increase it for travel especially in place as small as Ireland. I have driven at 160km/h, and an accident can easily happen. Not by you necessarily, but by others. So 120km/h is fair and decent compromise.

-Corkie-

jock101 wrote: »

120km/h is the best limit speed for Motorways or Toll roads as they really are, anyway theres no need to increase it for travel especially in place as small as Ireland. I have driven at 160km/h, and an accident can easily happen. Not by you necessarily, but by others. So 120km/h is fair and decent compromise.

Should be higher than 120 kph. Dont know about trolls tolls though.;)

af_thefragile

150 on all Motorways ( excluding passing large urban areas )

I agree with clarkson's logic when he says an Aston Martin can stop from 100kmph in half the distance of the recommended stopping distance of a car set by the RSA so why can't they go twice as fast...??

coffee_cake

140 on all Motorways ( excluding passing large urban areas )

limklad wrote: »

I suppose a changing of the wheel and performing simple checks of the car, such as oil/lights/water would be out of the question for alot of the population these days. :rolleyes: well, not on the Motorway anyway. :eek:

Judging by the amount of people going around with broken lights, it looks like it

kippy

af_thefragile wrote: »

I agree with clarkson's logic when he says an Aston Martin can stop from 100kmph in half the distance of the recommended stopping distance of a car set by the RSA so why can't they go twice as fast...??

Its not about how fast the car CAN stop. Its about driver reaction time/observation which is a far bigger consideration to be taken into account when looking at stopping distance.
Also, very few of us drive Aston Martins but the first point is more relevant.

coffee_cake

140 on all Motorways ( excluding passing large urban areas )

kippy wrote: »

Its not about how fast the car CAN stop. Its about driver reaction time/observation which is a far bigger consideration to be taken into account when looking at stopping distance.

Ain't that the truth, surprised myself last night driving when I realised the car in front had REALLY slowed down and I hadn't done enough to match :pac:
Thank goodness for cautious safety distance.
Another reason speed limits shouldn't be increased - because most drivers seem to think driving up your backside is a-ok.
Or one person decides to pull out of the slip road lane just as another decides to pull into it at the same place, right when the lane is ending :pac:

seensensee

150 on all Motorways ( excluding passing large urban areas )

Two good reasons why the speed limit should not be raised are...


12 August 2010 Last updated at 11:04 GMT Share this page

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Fatal M1 van crash passenger named

A man who was killed in a crash on the M1 in Leicestershire has been named.
Eoghan Mac Aoidh, 24, from Dublin, was a passenger in a camper van which was hit by a lorry between junctions 20 and 21 in the early hours of Wednesday.
Four other people in the van, which was parked on the hard shoulder, were hurt. One is still being treated in hospital.
The driver of the lorry received minor injuries. A 45-year-old man has been arrested in connection with the crash and released on police bail.


In the event that the legal speed limit was at 160 (100 mph) the above accident would surely have wiped out everyone on board, There would clearly be increased carnage on the roads, it's unacceptable.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-10953118


and..


irishtimes.com - Last Updated: Saturday, August 14, 2010, 10:06Occupants freed from overturned car

A collision on the M50 this morning in which the occupants of a car were trapped when their vehicle overturned has been cleared by emergency services.
The crash happened on the M50 southbound at J17. It is understood the car was travelling in the fast lane when it overturned.
Diversions were put in place while emergency services freed the trapped passengers.
Gardai are letting traffic through on the hard shoulder only. The AA has said there are no delays at present.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0814/breaking73.html

Another example how unsafe drivers cannot handle driving on the M50 at present 100 kph speeds what hope for less accidents at 160 kph, NONE!


It's fairly obvious to see how a large portion of drivers on Irish roads prefer to drive at speeds of 80-90 kph, the suggestion that they should be coerced into driving at speeds of 120-160 is nothing short of madness:eek::eek::eek: