M11 - Arklow to Rathnew

JupiterKid

The new Gorey bypass is great but they really need to be getting started on improving the stretch between Wicklow and Arklow - it's very narrow and dangerous.

drfisher

The N11 is closed today (Saturday 11th August) due to a serious accident at The Tap. The AA are saying it is due to reopen at 6pm. Northbound drivers should divert left before The Tap. Southbound drivers should divert at the Beehive.

Irish and Proud

drfisher wrote:

The N11 is closed today (Saturday 11th August) due to a serious accident at The Tap. The AA are saying it is due to reopen at 6pm. Northbound drivers should divert left before The Tap. Southbound drivers should divert at the Beehive.

Oh, are you serious? There was an accident on that stretch of road - well that's a first!!! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

RIGHT, TIME FOR THE AUTHORITIES TO CUT THE BS, MOVE ASS, AND GET THAT ARKLOW - RATHNEW HQDC SECTION DONE - LIKE NOWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!! :mad: :mad: :mad:

PoolDude

After 17 deaths in a relatively short space of time they must surely prioritise Rathnew to Arklow. I am hoping there will be some information forthcoming at the official opening of the Gorey bypass.

I notice on the NRA site it now says this is at the Tender stage but I don't know if that means they are going to put it out to tender soon or if they have already started the process and if so if they are close to selection and commencing the project.

Bards

according to http://www.irishtrucker.com/news/news_detail.asp?nid=1753

The NRA are looking for more money

==================================================
The National Roads Authority (NRA) has asked the Government for an additional Eur. 500 million annually to speed up the delivery of the national roads programme.

The NRA is arguing that the extra funds could be used to bring forward a number of road projects that have been detailed for construction at the end of Transport 21.

The NRA says the money could be spent on road projects like the N11 south of Rathnew, the N21 Adare bypass as well as the N20 bypass of Mallow. These projects are all at the tail end of Transport 21.

The NRA is currently focusing on the completion of the inter-urban routes, but claims the extra funding would speed up the delivery of a number of badly needed bypasses.

Zoney

Just right. I mean, the interurbans may well be the highest priority, but those three projects in particular are desperately needed. Adare has more traffic passing through it each day than the Abbeyleix part of the N8 that's getting a motorway bypass. Limerick-Cork is a goat-track for a lot of Mallow-Croom. While the interurbans need to be completed fast, it's not really acceptable to put up with the current N20 for another half decade or more.

I don't have first-hand experience, but the missing N11 Rathnew-Arklow bit sounds like an awful bottleneck and quite hazardous.

Of course, if the interurbans had been finished by 2006 like they were supposed to have been...

Chris_533976

Bards wrote:

according to
The NRA says the money could be spent on road projects like the N11 south of Rathnew, the N21 Adare bypass as well as the N20 bypass of Mallow. These projects are all at the tail end of Transport 21.

I just hope thats a bit of a typo... the N20 bypass of Mallow is involved with the Blarney - Mallow scheme, which given the quality of the road should not be prioritised over a lot of other schemes (wide S2 and no real bottlenecks other than the old 1980s Mallow bypass). Much as I'd love to see all of Cork - Limerick DCed right now its just not common sense.

Its the other N20 scheme we need, Mallow - Croom, which is some of the worst 'main road' N road there is. No overtaking for like 30km, windy, terrible roads. Around Buttevant two lorries can barely fit past each other.

JupiterKid

Another car crash reported on the N11 between Wicklow and Arklow today.:(

chamar

Couldn't Get Over The Traffic Driving Northbound As I Drove South Down The N11 Last Night. It Seemed Like The Tailback Between Arklow Bypass And The Beehive Stretched For Miles. And This Was At 10.45pm!

Carawaystick

the Arklow Beehive section is always slow, a friend of mine goes by pennycomequick all the time now.

I see on the NRA's revamped road scheme activity section that this section is at the tender stage. Does that mean it's gone out to tender, or putting it to tender is the next step?

spacetweek

Carawaystick wrote:

the Arklow Beehive section is always slow, a friend of mine goes by pennycomequick all the time now.

I see on the NRA's revamped road scheme activity section that this section is at the tender stage. Does that mean it's gone out to tender, or putting it to tender is the next step?

It means tendering is the next step. In other words, they're getting ready to put it out to tender.

PoolDude

So next year before it gets started?

jonnerz

It seems apparent that our Government Place more emphasis on relieving traffic flow than on relieving the deaths and injuries on our roads, in other words its less important to them to stop deaths than it is to keep traffic flowing.

This has been proved by the apparent inaction taken to prevent the deaths and injuries that have occurred on a regular basis on the portion of road between Rathnew and Arklow in Co. Wicklow. Now the question is who is in charge of road development? The Government say the NRA ( National Roads Authority) are and the NRA say the Government hold the purse strings. While this typical Irish attitude carries on more people are going to be killed on the N11 and I place the blame firmly at the doors of our elected Government, the same elected officials that promised the upgrading of the N11 while they were running around scrounging our votes, Bertie Ahern himself made a promise that the upgrade would go ahead..

Liz McManus (Labour TD) was quoted in the Wicklow Times as saying that

“All that is needed is the go-ahead for funding from the Government”

she also said

“…that money was already allocated for this project but diverted to Waterford….”

This is proof that bottle necks get more priority.

In an email I received from the NRA it is obvious that the NRA is waiting for approval from the government,

“The Authority is conscious of the case for constructing the N11 Arklow-Rathnew scheme and has worked closely with Wicklow County Council to advance the project. You will be aware that the project has received An Bord Pleanála approval and funding was subsequently made available for archaeological investigations and excavations along the route. The work concerned has been completed, leaving the scheme well placed to progress to construction as soon as the overall funding position of the Authority permits. The Authority will continue to keep the matter under review taking account of the Government's priorities for the national roads programme as already outlined and the competing demands from other projects.”

Interesting that the words competing demands are used, maybe we have to have more deaths on our road (N11) before the NRA or the Government will get the road completed.

Now don’t get me wrong the NRA have spent a few quid on the N11,

“The Authority, in conjunction with Wicklow County Council has taken a number of steps to improve safety on the existing Arklow-Rathnew Road. These include improved signage and lining, provision of Garda observation areas, a reduction in the speed limit on a section of the road and the recent completion of a new section of rod eliminating dangerous bends. We will continue to liaise with the Council on the effectiveness of these measures and the scope for other safety initiatives pending the availability of funding to allow construction of the new road to proceed.”

Again its apparent that the NRA are not in touch with the real world, in European statistics it has been proven that driving on a two lane carriageway is safer than driving on a single two way road.

The RSA (Road Safety Authority) said that

“In 2005 over 78% of all fatal and injury collisions occurred on two-way single carriageways, while 4% occurred on dual carriage ways.”

Is this not enough proof? Apparently not it seems that the road schemes that are in progress are there for the benefit of business. Again I quote the email received from the NRA,

“Transport 21 also provides for significant development of other key national primary roads including the N11, as well as a number of national secondary routes which are identified in the plan as being particularly important for regional development.”

Important for regional development and not for road safety. It seems that the N11 at the Ballinameesda Bends isn’t in that plan. Maybe the government doesn’t see that area as a development possibility.

If as the NRA have indicated that work will not begin until 2010, then we the road users should be prepared to loose up another 15 people on the Ballinameesda bends and have to care for up to another 100 people in our already overstretched hospitals.


Jonnerzblog.blogspot.com

Bards

jonnerz wrote:

“…that money was already allocated for this project but diverted to Waterford….”

.....and the Gorey bypass was built quicker becuase the money allocated to the Waterford City bypass was diverted to Gorey due to the Woodstwon Viking find. This happens all the time. When projects are ready to go and another one is held up for whatever reason funds are diverted in the given financial year while the hold ups are ironed out.


she is ust trying to pass the buck and lay blame somewhere else

spacetweek

jonnerz wrote:

This is proof that bottle necks get more priority.

“In 2005 over 78% of all fatal and injury collisions occurred on two-way single carriageways, while 4% occurred on dual carriage ways.”

That article was rubbish. Of course bottle necks get priority - trivially, fatalities are more likely to occur in high traffic areas than low.

The fatality and injury statistics are probably due to the fact that only about 4% of roads in Ireland are dual carriageways.

drfisher

Just received the following from the Ministers office in relation to the Rathnew/Arklow upgrade:

The NRA have also informed me that their intention is that the project will proceed to construction during the course of 2010. It is on of their top priorities following the completion of the MIUs.

loyatemu

so 3 years until they start construction, at least 5 until it is completed. Did he say how many people are expected to die on the old road before then, or did he not have those figures to hand?

dublin2

DrFisher,
You should send a copy of that communication to the national and local press. It is shocking to think that they are going to wait a further three years to start a project that could have gone ahead nearly two years ago. There is no excuse, the government can borrow the money easily for it or the NTMA could finance it. Again there is no excuse.

How many people will die because of this nonsense. The NRA and TD's should be pressurised over this.

murphaph

Would people along the route support a toll section if it could save lives by being built much sooner? The fact is that the N11 is NOT an interurban. It is somewhat of a quiet man of roadbuilding in Ireland, slowly but surely being upgraded toll free, despite there being no major city at or along the route. Rosslare Europort does not imply a need for a D2 along the N11, otherwise the N25 from Rosslare to Wexford would be an urgent priority for dualling, but it isn't-everyone wants the N11 bypasses to work their way south, not north!

I'd be happy enough if I lived along the N11. It'll be a very good standard road, toll free, carrying relatively little traffic most of the time. Compare that to the interurbans, which will all be tolled with the exception of the N9, however that road is worse for most of its length than the fairly short bit of 'missing' dual in the N11 and it has an actual city (with a port too!) at the end of it.

I'm not against the N11 being dual throughout, not at all-it has far more merit than the M3 in fact and it probably could have been dualled years ago if the govt hadn't wasted so much of our money on <insert folly of your choice here> but were we are today is that only ONE interurban is complete, and the N11 will be dual to Clogh at or before some of the rest. Heck-the N20/N18 corridor links Cork-Limerick-Galway and is unlikely to be dualled before the N11, despite having some of the most treacherous bends in the country, so it's not all bad for the sunny south east.

Victor

But won't someone think of the second home owners in Gorey!

Chris_533976

Although I dont know the N11 terribly well, it seems to me that theres a good bit of DC with a little gap in the middle, and with no terribly major bottlenecks now that Gorey is bypassed.

Contrast this with the N20 which has no hard shoulder and little overtaking opportunities for almost its entire length from Mallow to Croom. Couple that with some of the most dangerous bends out there, especially around Buttevant. You cant take them at more than 50-60kmh if you're lucky.







Contrast also with the remaining two schemes on the N18. Just after the end of the DC there is a section near Crusheen where two buses can barely fit past eachother.





Although I dont doubt that the N11 needs a DC, the N20 between Mallow and Croom needs doing more urgently, as does the N18 between Crusheen and Gort, anyway.

The DC projects are important, but they are being done in a political order. If I was minister for transport, I'd put the Mitchelstown - Fermoy section of the N8 (no bottlenecks and wide enough road) on hold for now and do Mallow - Croom instead.

loyatemu

Chris_533976 wrote:

Although I dont know the N11 terribly well, it seems to me that theres a good bit of DC with a little gap in the middle

this is exactly the problem - traffic reaching the "gap in the middle" is coming off at least 20 miles of motorway standard road in either direction onto a winding narrow track. To make matters worse, anyone familiar with the road will be aware that theres more motorway just ahead and may be in a hurry to get back onto some good road.

Chris_533976

But at the same time (most) people who know the road will sit back and say 'right I can overtake in a few km and it'll be fine'. Not so with the crappy parts of the N18 or N20. In the case of the latter theres 30km without safe opportunities.

murphaph

Chris_533976 wrote:

But at the same time (most) people who know the road will sit back and say 'right I can overtake in a few km and it'll be fine'.

That's exactly how I treat that stretch. Hang back and relax.

spacetweek

The problem is that although Arklow-Wicklow is clearly necessary, to bridge the gap and provide a continuous standard of road, there is no major town along the way - so there's no bypass element. This makes it justifiably less urgent than schemes like the N20, where there are several major towns along the route (as well as the route being substandard.) The NRA are prioritising bypasses before linking sections.

spacetweek

I think people are being very grabby and unrealistic about this. At some level the NRA has to prioritise things in a list, you can't start all road projects at the same time, it's a physical impossibility. One road has to start after another road.

With resources stretched to the limit and the NRA putting contracts out to tender as fast as they can, if we gave to the N11, we would have to take from somewhere else - that's not justifiable.

Zoney

spacetweek wrote:

At some level the NRA has to prioritise things in a list, you can't start all road projects at the same time, it's a physical impossibility. One road has to start after another road.

Exactly, which is why it's perfectly justifiable to be somewhat irate that the interurbans weren't finished by 2006 as planned, and it now looks like they may not even be finished by 2010, the new "promise".

The point is that they should be done, and work should be by now proceeding apace on the N18, N20, N24, N25, N30 and N11.

PoolDude

Which begs the question - how do we want the work prioritised?

Major Bottlenecks or Major Blackspots

D'Peoples Voice

Zoney wrote:

The point is that they should be done, and work should be by now proceeding apace on the N18, N20, N24, N25, N30 and N11.

Please tell me you are joking 0 lookin at the routes you've listed, anyone would think the government should priortise those routes that are heavily used and NEED upgrading.
that's not how the irish government work, nor how they have worked over the past 30 years.
The government will look at the geographical spread of those roads, where their marginal constituencies are in terms of votes, and prioritise the spending on that basis:D You only have to look at any publication since Enda Kenny took over Fine Gael to see the strong emphasis by FF put on the news releases on investment in roads in the BMW region - I'm sure it's just a concidence:D

jd

http://www.braypeople.ie/frontpage/td-under-fire-for-n11-upgrade-call-1227849.html

TD under fire for N11 upgrade call



Attempts to have the N11 through Wicklow upgraded as a matter of priority have landed a County Wexford TD in hot water with Councillors there.Wexford County Council was last week told that it is despicable' that Fine Gael's Deputy Michael D'Arcy would be trying to get roads in County Wicklow done before roads in his own county'.

Attempts to have the N11 through Wicklow upgraded as a matter of priority have landed a County Wexford TD in hot water with Councillors there. Wexford County Council was last week told that it is despicable' that Fine Gael's Deputy Michael D'Arcy would be trying to get roads in County Wicklow done before roads in his own county'.
Cllr. Lorcan Allen stuck the boot into his former Council colleague by asking Wexford County Council ensures that there is no slowdown by the National Roads Authority in progressing the Camolin, Ferns and Enniscorthy bypasses and the second river crossing at New Ross.'
Cllr. Allen said that Deputy D'Arcy had circulated a letter following a recent fatality on the dangerous stretch of the N11 in Wicklow looking for work to be carried out as a matter of urgency to improve road safety.
In 45 years in politics I never interfered in another county,' said Cllr. Allen, before referring to the TD's actions as despicable'.
He said that following the success of the Gorey bypass he wanted to see all the other major jobs contained in his notice of motion go ahead.