Who runs Hollywood? Oliver Stone is right.

King Mob

Joshua Jones wrote: »

Positive Irish characters:
Jack Dawson -Titanic, Leo Di Caprio

Wasn't Irish.
From Wisconsin according to wiki.

Joshua Jones wrote: »

King Of Ireland (lol) -Braveheart, Erm, Yer man

Haven't seen the film in ages and can't remember the character.

Joshua Jones wrote: »

Red -Shawshank Redemption, Morgan (The man) Freeman

Not really Irish you'd agree.
Also a criminal.

Joshua Jones wrote: »

Christy Brown -My Left foot, D D Lewis

Veronica Guerin -Same, Cate Blanchett

These films also contain negative Irish stereo types, Gilligan for example.
So it cancels out.

Joshua Jones wrote: »

Jim Malone -The Untouchables, Sean Connery

Can't fault this one.
But as BB said.

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Matt Le Tissier scored 48/49 penalty kicks. Just because he missed one doesn't make a bad penalty kick taker, does it?

Joshua Jones

King Mob wrote: »

Wasn't Irish.
From Wisconsin according to wiki.

Born Dublin, Ireland. Also from wiki. That's one

Haven't seen the film in ages and can't remember the character.

That's two

Not really Irish you'd agree.
Also a criminal.

Watch the film. Says he's Irish. A criminal who finds REDEMPTION and admits his faults. That's three.

These films also contain negative Irish stereo types, Gilligan for example.
So it cancels out.

The lead characters are positive and for any film to work it needs a balance of negative characters. However you only asked for positive Irish characters, not films containing ONLY positive Irish characters. Four and five.

Can't fault this one.

Six.

I know you were wishing to derail this thread and am nearly embarrassed to have taken your bait but I had to point out how what you were saying had absolutley no basis.

K-9

And then the bad guys:

Patriot Games
Devils Own
Ronin
Crying Game, probably more British though.

Probably a few others where the Irish where the terrorists.

Oh and an honourable mention to Far and Away, particularly offensive!

humanji

Just so you know, Morgan Freeman wasn't Irish in Shawshank. His character was Irish in the book, so they put that line in as a joke, since he was obviously not Irish.

But the point still stands. The Jews are trying to make the Irish out to be heroic in order to trick to world into ignoring the crimes against humanity that we're about to commit. Apprently.

King Mob

Joshua Jones wrote: »

Born Dublin, Ireland. Also from wiki. That's one

Nope sorry:

After completing the script for Titanic, Cameron discovered that there had been a real "J. Dawson" who died aboard the Titanic. "J. Dawson" (Joseph Dawson) had been born September 1888 in Dublin, Ireland.

Joshua Jones wrote: »

Watch the film. Says he's Irish. A criminal who finds REDEMPTION and admits his faults. That's three.

Still a criminal.

Joshua Jones wrote: »

The lead characters are positive and for any film to work it needs a balance of negative characters. However you only asked for positive Irish characters, not films containing ONLY positive Irish characters. Four and five.

Gillian was a lead character, what with being the villain of the piece and all.
Also both where partly Irish productions. So doesn't really count.

Joshua Jones wrote: »

Six.

Two.

I posted a much longer list of positive Arab characters

Joshua Jones wrote: »

I know you were wishing to derail this thread and am nearly embarrassed to have taken your bait but I had to point out how what you were saying had absolutley no basis.

So BB et all are claiming that Arabs are singled out as being portrayed as negative characters, but it's some how derailing the thread to get them to back up this claim?

K-9

humanji wrote: »

Just so you know, Morgan Freeman wasn't Irish in Shawshank. His character was Irish in the book, so they put that line in as a joke, since he was obviously not Irish.

But the point still stands. The Jews are trying to make the Irish out to be heroic in order to trick to world into ignoring the crimes against humanity that we're about to commit. Apprently.

Used to love reading spy novels in the 80's. Gerald Seymour, LeCarre that type of stuff. Seymour was very fond of writing about the IRA and usually was quiet sympathetic to them. He wrote one about an Arab terrorist recently. So, even he just moved on, Arabs are more likely to be portrayed as terrorists and bombers now because, well, the IRA have stopped. Same for Hollywood.

mkahnisbent

Joshua Jones wrote: »

Born Dublin, Ireland. Also from wiki. That's one

You're being dishonest, wikipedia doesn't say that. It says some other bloke who happened to have the same name was born in Dublin.

PirateShampoo

Joshua Jones wrote: »

I always thought Fagin was Irish. Must have toned it down.

Why? Did the nickname "The Jew" miss lead you?

robtri

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Fagin's "Jewishness" has been toned down considerably over the years.

In any case he was based on a real-life Jewish criminal
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ikey_Solomon

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Read this



Then read my unedited post.

you posted a simple one line statement, now u are saying that u dont agree with that one line statment... come on BB...

so what did you mean and i mean YOU when u made the statment, cause i really am confused

Yitzhak Rabin

This whole thread reminds me of Keith Chegwins character from Extas

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klXUOM4wtT8

Brown Bomber

Exhibit A - Alec Guinness 40's



Exhibit B - Some other Chap in the 60's or 70's musicla version



Exhibit C - Ben Kingsley from the last 10 years or so



Exhibit D - Rowan Atkinson. Russ Abbot, Griff Rhys Jones & Omad Djalili Present(ish) Day Westend version

Rowan Atkinson



Russ Abbott



Omad Djalili (?)



Griff Rhy Jones




Now if people can't see the transformation from the first (stereotypical, anti-semtic) photo to the (watered down PC Fagin) last I give up.

King Mob

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Now if people can't see the transformation from the first (stereotypical, anti-semtic) photo to the (watered down PC Fagin) last I give up.

So the only thing you can provide as an example of "Jewishness" is a large hook nose?

And are you still arguing that "Jewishness" can be defined without stereotyping?
Cause that's exactly what you just did.

I take it that you're not going to address any of the other points then?

robtri

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Exhibit A - Alec Guinness 40's




Exhibit B - Some other Chap in the 60's or 70's musicla version



Exhibit C - Ben Kingsley from the last 10 years or so



Exhibit D - Rowan Atkinson. Russ Abbot, Griff Rhys Jones & Omad Djalili Present(ish) Day Westend version

Rowan Atkinson



Russ Abbott



Omad Djalili (?)



Griff Rhy Jones




Now if people can't see the transformation from the first (stereotypical, anti-semtic) photo to the (watered down PC Fagin) last I give up.

so off all them pictures, how many are from films produced by hollywood, ??
cause i think most of them are from musicals from westend and not films from hollywood.... and thats what this thread is about...

if i am correct the pictures are worthless to hold water to your argument

Brown Bomber

robtri wrote: »

you posted a simple one line statement, now u are saying that u dont agree with that one line statment... come on BB...

so what did you mean and i mean YOU when u made the statment, cause i really am confused

Sorry for the confusion

It is quite simple really. You may recall that the word "Jewishness" was within quotation marks (""). What this signifies is that I don't agree with the usage of the term but it is descriptive nonetheless.

Hope that clears it up.

PirateShampoo

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Now if people can't see the transformation from the first (stereotypical, anti-semtic) photo to the (watered down PC Fagin) last I give up.

You still haven't answered the question of what his "Jewishness" is.

Even the pictures you posted doesn't really show much change of the characters physical appearance.

So again, which of Fagin's personality traits are from his "Jewishness"?

King Mob

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Sorry for the confusion

It is quite simple really. You may recall that the word "Jewishness" was within quotation marks (""). What this signifies is that I don't agree with the usage of the term but it is descriptive nonetheless.

Hope that clears it up.

Dude this is getting silly now.
Which characteristics specifically does the term Jewishness describe?

PirateShampoo

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Sorry for the confusion

It is quite simple really. You may recall that the word "Jewishness" was within quotation marks (""). What this signifies is that I don't agree with the usage of the term but it is descriptive nonetheless.

Hope that clears it up.

But that would still imply that the Fagin characters negative traits are down to the fact he is Jewish.

Its not your fault that you think this, Charles Dickens appeared to have a strong dislike for Jews and he can be blamed for helping spread the misconception that all Jews only think about money and power and are sneaky and evil.

Brown Bomber

King Mob wrote: »

So the only thing you can provide as an example of "Jewishness" is a large hook nose?

And here we go with the baiting again. :rolleyes:

The poster who gave us "sinister Jew" now brings "a large hook nose" into the debate.

King Mob wrote: »

And are you still arguing that "Jewishness" can be defined without stereotyping?

For the 5th time yes.

For the record Fagin is not what I think of when I think of Jewishness. What comes into my head is Larry David, Mel Brooks, Woody Allen.

You still think that a dictionary stereotypes? :pac:

King Mob wrote: »

Cause that's exactly what you just did.

Me bollix thats what I did.

1. someone else brought up Fagin as an example of a negative Hollywood Jewish character
2. I pointed out that his "Jewishness" has diminished over the decades
3. I posted some photos to demonstrate this.

King Mob wrote: »

I take it that you're not going to address any of the other points then?

You catch on quick don't ya?

I've made it quite clear that I won't be addressing your irrelevant points for the reason that they are irrelevant. Feel free to to raise any further points with a trace of relevance and we'll take it from there.

Brown Bomber

robtri wrote: »

so off all them pictures, how many are from films produced by hollywood, ??
cause i think most of them are from musicals from westend and not films from hollywood.... and thats what this thread is about...

if i am correct the pictures are worthless to hold water to your argument

A; B; C are movies. D is from the Westend. It was in the earlier post

Brown Bomber

King Mob wrote: »

Dude this is getting silly now.
Which characteristics specifically does the term Jewishness describe?

I don't understand your question

Brown Bomber

PirateShampoo wrote: »

But that would still imply that the Fagin characters negative traits are down to the fact he is Jewish.

He is a fictional character. I don't understand what you are saying

PirateShampoo wrote: »

Its not your fault that you think this, Charles Dickens appeared to have a strong dislike for Jews and he can be blamed for helping spread the misconception that all Jews only think about money and power and are sneaky and evil.

Me I think it is unfair to judge a person in a time we couldn't possibly comprehend being in.

King Mob

Brown Bomber wrote: »

And here we go with the baiting again. :rolleyes:

Well that's really the only difference I can see between those photos.
Maybe if you actually tell us what characteristics you are talking about....

Brown Bomber wrote: »

The poster who gave us "sinister Jew" now brings "a large hook nose" into the debate.

I'm not the one accusing people of conspiracy based solely on their heritage.

Brown Bomber wrote: »

For the 5th time yes.

For the record Fagin is not what I think of when I think of Jewishness. What comes into my head is Larry David, Mel Brooks, Woody Allen.

You still think that a dictionary stereotypes? :pac:

That's not an answer.

Which characteristics do they have that are their "Jewishness"?

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Me bollix thats what I did.

1. someone else brought up Fagin as an example of a negative Hollywood Jewish character
2. I pointed out that his "Jewishness" has diminished over the decades
3. I posted some photos to demonstrate this.

So which characteristics where diminshed? cause the only change we can see from a photo is appearance.

Brown Bomber wrote: »

You catch on quick don't ya?

I've made it quite clear that I won't be addressing your irrelevant points for the reason that they are irrelevant. Feel free to to raise any further points with a trace of relevance and we'll take it from there.

I've explained how exactly they are relevant. you just can't answer them without undermining you ridiculous position.

Brown Bomber wrote: »

I don't understand your question

I don't know how to make it any clearer.
Which personality traits, mannerisms or actions would be included in the description "Jewishness"?

robtri

Brown Bomber wrote: »

He is a fictional character. I don't understand what you are saying



Me I think it is unfair to judge a person in a time we couldn't possibly comprehend being in.

hole and digging comes to mind here.... lol

PirateShampoo

Brown Bomber wrote: »

He is a fictional character. I don't understand what you are saying



Me I think it is unfair to judge a person in a time we couldn't possibly comprehend being in.

Ah i dont even care even more, i already know the answer to the question everybody has been asking you.

Brown Bomber

PirateShampoo wrote: »

Ah i dont even care even more, i already know the answer to the question everybody has been asking you.

whats the question???

Brown Bomber

King Mob wrote: »

Which personality traits, mannerisms or actions would be included in the description "Jewishness"?

Decription by whom?

King Mob

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Decription by whom?

Wow....

Ok. you said that Fagins Jewishness has been toned down.
Exactly and specifically which bits of his character were toned down?
Which bit of his character give him his Jewishness?

Brown Bomber

King Mob wrote: »

Wow....

Ok. you said that Fagins Jewishness has been toned down.
Exactly and specifically which bits of his character were toned down?
Which bit of his character give him his Jewishness?

And I have made quite clear that by placing "Jewishness" in quotation marks it implied that "Jewishness" in this context means Dickens stereotypical creation.

for ****s sake man would you clarify your question.

what do you want?

Dickens opinion?
my opinion?
anti-semitic Jewish stereotypes?

King Mob

Brown Bomber wrote: »

And I have made quite clear that by placing "Jewishness" in quotation marks it implied that "Jewishness" in this context means Dickens stereotypical creation.

for ****s sake man would you clarify your question.

what do you want?

Dickens opinion?
my opinion?
anti-semitic Jewish stereotypes?

By whichever way you personally are judging his "Jewishness".
Which bits of his character where altered to be toned down?

Or are you now argeeing that you can't define that word without relying on stereotype.

Yitzhak Rabin

King Mob wrote: »

By whichever way you personally are judging his "Jewishness".
Which bits of his character where altered to be toned down?

Or are you now argeeing that you can't define that word without relying on stereotype.

Its the same as any adjective to describe an ethnic group. Defining Irishness, Polishness, Americaness etc. All relies on some degree of stereotyping as you have to generalise when speaking about a group.

The "jewishness" obviously referred to the stereotypical victorian Jew.