Ground Zero Mosque

Amerika

dlofnep wrote: »

So I ask you again - What exactly is it that he has said that you object to?

I think I've answered that several times already. I didn't think I was typing in invisible font colors?

dlofnep

Amerika wrote: »

I think I've answered that several times already. I didn't think I was typing in invisible font colors?

No, you haven't. You quoted him stating that American actions resulted in Islamic extremists attacking America. He clearly stated in the same discussion that the attacks on America were not justified. So what exactly is it you have a problem with if he didn't actually attempt to justify the attacks on the US?

Also, I noticed you conveniently skipped past all of my comments regarding your accusation. Smart move.

Amerika

Sometimes this forum reminds me of the old adage: Some minds are like concrete; all mixed up and permanently set.
:pac:

dlofnep

You still haven't answered my question, nor have you apologised for your blatantly disingenuous attack on my character earlier. A red herring will always be a red herring. Stop trying to divert attention away from the fact that you are being dismantled in this debate, and engage on the issues!

Amerika

I’ve come to realize here that when some don’t bother to read what I write, and posts go from the ridiculous to the sublime, a closed mouth gathers no warnings. Fin

Nodin

Amerika wrote: »

When strippers band together and giggle their way onto the streets of NY, attacking innocent bystanders who are guilty of nothing more than wanting to enjoy the liberties our country provides, with their 6 inch stiletto heels... then I will also protest their presence (with camera in hand ).
.

Being consistent with your faulty logic at least.

Amerika wrote: »

And my point about Iran and Saudi Arabia was to point out the hypocrisy of some of the posters here as they seem to attack the liberties experienced by Americans,.

I haven't seen that on this thread, and I'm fairly sure I'd notice. Would you care to quote and link?

Amerika wrote: »

.......yet these countries seem to get a free pass.

They're bywords for religous fundamentalism and oppression. How is that getting a "free pass"?

sceptre

Amerika wrote: »

So it's okay in your books to attack and kill innocent people not involved in a conflict in any way? And you wonder what I find wrong with this? I wonder about you.

Ignoring the personalised wondering, which adds nothing but heat to the discussion, that's a rather unconvincing non sequitur in relation to the quoted post, which adds nothing at all.

sceptre

dlofnep wrote: »

nor have you apologised for your blatantly disingenuous attack on my character earlier.

As you're (all) well aware, the "report this post" button exists. Use it where desired please, no room for insistent vigilantism here thank you. Demands/requests/whatever for apologies are not within the sphere of very many discussions we have here.

As a slight aside, but a pertinent one, those of you who are insisting on repeatedly personalising these discussions (and yes, some of you are making a habit of it) would do well to knock that off pretty sharply lest the forum door be closed with you locked outside. Politeness is easy, basic civility is free - kindly keep that in mind, folks.

/mod

Memnoch

Amerika wrote: »

So if I’m reading some of the recent responses correctly, you’re claiming it’s right and understandable to target Americans for the actions of some, but not okay to target muslims for the actions of some?

No one said it's right.

Terrorism apart from being WRONG is STUPID AND POINTLESS. I don't believe that in the modern world terrorist violence can achieve anything except perpetuating more violence.

However, as dongfella pointed out, Ron Paul in the 2008 Nominee for Republican Presedential candidates debate on Fox News talked about the CIA concept of blowback. I.E. You can't go around invading other countries, bombing people, installing dictators and puppet governments etc. and not expect SOME kind of retaliation. (not a surprise that he got a negative response from the fox news crowd for this)

That doesn't make 9/11 right(or any terrorist incident). But is it possible that if American Foreign policy over the last few decades hadn't been so aggressive and interfering that it might not have happened? I think so.

So what this guy is saying is no different to what many Libertarians or Liberals would argue.

dlofnep

sceptre wrote: »

As you're (all) well aware, the "report this post" button exists. Use it where desired please, no room for insistent vigilantism here thank you. Demands/requests/whatever for apologies are not within the sphere of very many discussions we have here.

Fair enough.

Overheal

Amerika wrote: »

So if I’m reading some of the recent responses correctly, you’re claiming it’s right and understandable to target Americans for the actions of some, but not okay to target muslims for the actions of some?

I have no idea what you're reading. Saying that America was an Accessory to the 9/11 attack Is Not Equal to Saying that the 9/11 attack was Justifiable.

Your logic here basically reads as "Sam Helped Tom kill Billy, and was an Accessory to Billy's Murder, therefore Tom was right to kill Billy."

jank

I object as a matter of common decency to the building of the mosque

Sorry but Constitution >>> common decency.

Black Swan

Opponents of the ground zero mosque tried to stop construction by having the mosque site declared a landmark because part of a 9/11 plane fell into the building.

"Backers of a mosque near Ground Zero chalked up a victory last night after the local community board voted against landmarking the building now at the site."

Source: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/vote_boosts_zero_mosque_ovDzjMkJlij1Oog961hf3M

Overheal

How many homes across the country would be declared Landmarks when that precedent was set, when thousands of them discovered Debris from the Space Shuttle Columbia Disaster?

Furthermore, "Common Decency", who would want to?

The entire notion is a depravity.

Black Swan

In the latest development on the "Ground Zero mosque" debate, the influential Jewish Anti-Defamation League has now declared its opposition to the Islamic center, stating, "In our judgment, building an Islamic Center in the shadow of the World Trade Center will cause some victims more pain -- unnecessarily -- and that is not right."

Source: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/joseph-ward-iii/anti-defamation-league-de_b_665875.html

dlofnep

Of course they would object to it. They are anti-muslim.

Overheal

ADP, Wikipedia wrote:

As its goal is to defend not only Jews, but also "all citizens alike and to put an end forever to unjust and unfair discrimination against and ridicule of any sect or body of citizens," the ADL has periodically made statements against misrepresentations of other faiths.

hypocritical aint it?

wes

The ADL once again show themselves to a hypocritical joke of an organization. Whatever credibility they had, has been washed down the drain. They are no different at this point than the Anti-Semites they fight against imho.

Black Swan

"The Landmarks Preservation Commission gave the thumbs down this morning to giving a lower Manhattan building historic status -- paving the way for a controversial new mosque to open just blocks from Ground Zero.

The 9-0 vote opens the door for the demolition of the 152-year-old building on Park Place, where construction is planned for the mosque."

Source: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/landmark_vote_opens_door_to_ground_bglyGZSizoS6TzMo944NRJ

desertcircus

Presumably the people opposed to building this mosque/cultural centre two blocks from Ground Zero are equally opposed to the building of, say, Christian churches anywhere in the Middle East, or a German embassy in Israel. Or anything specifically designated as being for Jews in the vicinity of where Mordecai Vanunu was abducted. Or an Irish pub in Canary Wharf. Or a Basque restaurant in Madrid. Or...

Some insane Islamists committed a terrorist atrocity in New York because they hate the US and all it stands for, killing plenty of practising Muslims in the process. Nine years later, some sane Muslims who count New York as home and want to build a community there buy a site for building a mosque and community centre. Despite consistent lip service being paid to the idea that not all Muslims are suicidal fanatics, spittle-flecked rabid rightwingers immediately tar all the world's Muslims with the same brush and declare opposition. Hilarious, if it wasn't so depressing.

Black Swan

"BOSTON—Massachusetts Gov. Deval Patrick cited the words of George W. Bush on Wednesday as he showed support for a proposed mosque near the ground zero terror site."

A Democrat cited GW?

/face palm

Source: http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2010/08/04/patrick_indicates_support_for_ground_zero_mosque/

dlofnep

desertcircus wrote: »

Presumably the people opposed to building this mosque/cultural centre two blocks from Ground Zero are equally opposed to the building of, say, Christian churches anywhere in the Middle East, or a German embassy in Israel. Or anything specifically designated as being for Jews in the vicinity of where Mordecai Vanunu was abducted. Or an Irish pub in Canary Wharf. Or a Basque restaurant in Madrid. Or...

Some insane Islamists committed a terrorist atrocity in New York because they hate the US and all it stands for, killing plenty of practising Muslims in the process. Nine years later, some sane Muslims who count New York as home and want to build a community there buy a site for building a mosque and community centre. Despite consistent lip service being paid to the idea that not all Muslims are suicidal fanatics, spittle-flecked rabid rightwingers immediately tar all the world's Muslims with the same brush and declare opposition. Hilarious, if it wasn't so depressing.

Don't be coming up on here with all that logic and making sense stuff!

Nodin

wes wrote: »

The ADL once again show themselves to a hypocritical joke of an organization. Whatever credibility they had, has been washed down the drain. They are no different at this point than the Anti-Semites they fight against imho.

Yep. Something went badly wrong there years ago.

Mjollnir

desertcircus wrote: »

Presumably the people opposed to building this mosque/cultural centre two blocks from Ground Zero are equally opposed to the building of, say, Christian churches anywhere in the Middle East, or a German embassy in Israel. Or anything specifically designated as being for Jews in the vicinity of where Mordecai Vanunu was abducted. Or an Irish pub in Canary Wharf. Or a Basque restaurant in Madrid. Or...

Some insane Islamists committed a terrorist atrocity in New York because they hate the US and all it stands for, killing plenty of practising Muslims in the process. Nine years later, some sane Muslims who count New York as home and want to build a community there buy a site for building a mosque and community centre. Despite consistent lip service being paid to the idea that not all Muslims are suicidal fanatics, spittle-flecked rabid rightwingers immediately tar all the world's Muslims with the same brush and declare opposition. Hilarious, if it wasn't so depressing.

That's so rational I quoted you, verbatim (with attribution) at another political board.

wes

I taught the following article from Fareed Zakaria on this topic was a good read:

Build the Ground Zero Mosque

Black Swan

"A Marist College poll released Tuesday found that 53 percent of New York City voters polled oppose constructing the mosque there. Just 34 percent favored the plan in the poll..."

Source: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5h25pThz7AHPTQM8-tl2NRsuEUk_QD9HGQVV85

Amerika

A valid point of view about the Ground Zero mosque written by a Muslim. A good read, and like it or not, does point out much of what the opponents to the mosque feel.
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Mischief+Manhattan/3370303/story.html#ixzz0w9vI8Gqq

billy the squid

Blue_Lagoon wrote: »

In the latest development on the "Ground Zero mosque" debate, the influential Jewish Anti-Defamation League has now declared its opposition to the Islamic center, stating, "In our judgment, building an Islamic Center in the shadow of the World Trade Center will cause some victims more pain -- unnecessarily -- and that is not right."

Source: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/joseph-ward-iii/anti-defamation-league-de_b_665875.html

In order to justify it's 70 million a year budget, the ADL have to be outraged at something, meanwhile, jewish advocate group, J-street, don't seem to mind the Cordoba center one bit.

metrovelvet

So.... there's no memorial built for the victims and their families but a mosque is going to be a built. Very nice Bloomberg. Go back to Boston and stay there. That's where it all started.

Nodin

metrovelvet wrote: »

So.... there's no memorial built for the victims and their families but a mosque is going to be a built. Very nice Bloomberg. Go back to Boston and stay there. That's where it all started.

Theres no memorial for the families at ground zero? Thats perhaps something the various people complaining about a mosque two blocks away might be better focusing their efforts on....