The Nexus Thread *Spoilers*

DM_7

parker kent wrote: »

Edit: Before anybody jumps in, I am not saying that any of Nexus are as good as Goldberg or Lesnar

If WWE did book the individuals of Nexus stronger where could they have gone with the storyline?

7 proven talented guys v one guy would look stupid if Nexus had proven themselves as individuals. So we are left with another gang forming to go against them or having Nexus split and fight amongst themselves. I don't think WWE wanted to go down either road (yet!).

Nexus' strength was always consistently pushed as the group as one. That's why Cena was able to get to them by taking out one at the time.

Considering Nexus have only been around a few months I think WWE have done very well with the storyline. There is still room to book them in the way you suggested going forward.

Mr.Nice Guy

Nexus were in the Summerslam main event because the angle was red hot at that stage. The angle would not have been as hot had they just been taking out lower card guys. It was the fact that these were new guys, many of them unknown to most of the audience, coming in and destroying the top star of the company - Cena - and that got many people interested in the angle. Hindsight is a great thing and I too would have liked to have seen things done differently at certain times but overall I think they gave these guys plenty of opportunities to impress.

Let's not forget they tried giving them mic time after they destroyed people and most of them sucked. In their matches they didn't exactly come across fantastically well either, especially Otunga. Even when not in matches they had their problems such as Gabriel botching his finisher a few times. They are all very green. I'm not sure where they were buried 3 times either?

I think in fairness it is a very big stretch to suggest 7 rookies coming in to a show should be a force. Yes at times a big guy will debut and will be kept strong because the audience can accept a guy like Lesnar, or Khali, or Batista, or Heydenreich or any of the other token tanks that the company tends to being in - Jackson Andrews seems to be the latest in that mould - but Nexus were 7 guys, many of them small and limited in what they could do, and to give all of them a huge push and have them go over the established guys is very unrealistic and in my view unwise. You don't know if they are going to be able to handle such a push. Sheffield and Tarver suffered injuries, Young was deemed not good enough, I'm sure they have doubts over the others too. As I said before to expect these guys to be presented as a force individually is not too smart if the expectation is that most of them won't make it in the long run.

They invested huge faith in the lot of them and basically gave them a sink or swim opportunity. Barrett showed he could swim, some of them struggled, and some of them have or will be sunk. It was always going to be that way.

parker kent

DM-ICE wrote: »

If WWE did book the individuals of Nexus stronger where could they have gone with the storyline?

7 proven talented guys v one guy would look stupid if Nexus had proven themselves as individuals. So we are left with another gang forming to go against them or having Nexus split and fight amongst themselves. I don't think WWE wanted to go down either road (yet!).

Nexus' strength was always consistently pushed as the group as one. That's why Cena was able to get to them by taking out one at the time.

Considering Nexus have only been around a few months I think WWE have done very well with the storyline. There is still room to book them in the way you suggested going forward.

Well I did just suggest a 7-on-7 match at the Survivor Series. You don't have to form a faction, just get a group of faces together. I never suggested having 7 v 1. That would just be stupid. The natural conclusion to my suggestion would be a Cena v Barrett match before revealing the the true leader, preferably in that match. Then the others could have been in proper tag team feud and mid-card feuds.

parker kent

FYI this is not hindsight talking either, if you go back to the Summer there will be numerous threads discussing the booking of Nexus and how they have been treated illogically. They were treated like jobbers quite often.

As for 3 burials, they had to be rebuilt in the lead up to Summerslam as they had been like crash test dummies for Cena. Then they had to be rebuilt after Summerslam. Now they are getting rebuilt after the latest burial. Then add in that they have got very little offence against established stars at any stage.

I agree Barrett is the only top guy in Nexus and that has been obvious since Day 1. I am not for one moment suggesting otherwise. It could have been and is still likely to lead to a Wrestlemania match between 2 guys already established in the WWE. But the lower guys in any faction still need to be seen as some form of a threat. The lack of a decent tag team scene has hampered Nexus too.

DM_7

parker kent wrote: »

Well I did just suggest a 7-on-7 match at the Survivor Series. You don't have to form a faction, just get a group of faces together. I never suggested having 7 v 1. That would just be stupid. The natural conclusion to my suggestion would be a Cena v Barrett match before revealing the the true leader, preferably in that match. Then the others could have been in proper tag team feud and mid-card feuds.

I didn't say you wanted 7 v 1.

WWE had a 7 on 1 storyline (Nexus v Cena is 6 on 1 and started as more) which would look stupid if it was 7 individually over stars getting taken out by Cena one at a time. The thing that made Nexus special was never meant to be the individuals but the collective group. So why waste time building them up individually (Outside Barrett)?


The natural conclusion to your storyline indeed would of been Cena v Barrett and the rest of Nexus against other wrestlers. But that's not what WWE wanted, they wanted Nexus v Cena, Nexus Represented by Barrett. But Cena had to take out the rest of Nexus before he could get to Barrett alone.

If the rest of Nexus were involved in singles or tag feuds and as a result Cena wasn't taking them out one at a time then it wouldn't have worked. Barrett could still call upon them to interfere in the chairs match (Or any other one on one match).

Even if the GM banned them from the match how stupid would Nexus look if the rest of Nexus just sat in the back watching Cena take out the leader after the match?

The way it was booked worked as the Heel got his just desserts from the face after all the fan favourite was put through by the Man and the Group.

ricero

What next for Barrett ? A face turn maybe . Also I think were going to get a miz or Morrison vs seaumus match for the wwe title at the rumble then a hhh return setting up a strong feud leading into mania

DM_7

ricero wrote: »

What next for Barrett ? A face turn maybe . Also I think were going to get a miz or Morrison vs seaumus match for the wwe title at the rumble then a hhh return setting up a strong feud leading into mania

Good Question, I doubt a face turn is on the cards.

parker kent

DM-ICE wrote: »

I didn't say you wanted 7 v 1.

WWE had a 7 on 1 storyline (Nexus v Cena is 6 on 1 and started as more) which would look stupid if it was 7 individually over stars getting taken out by Cena one at a time. The thing that made Nexus special was never meant to be the individuals but the collective group. So why waste time building them up individually (Outside Barrett)?

The natural conclusion to your storyline indeed would of been Cena v Barrett and the rest of Nexus against other wrestlers. But that's not what WWE wanted, they wanted Nexus v Cena, Nexus Represented by Barrett. But Cena had to take out the rest of Nexus before he could get to Barrett alone.

If the rest of Nexus were involved in singles or tag feuds and as a result Cena wasn't taking them out one at a time then it wouldn't have worked. Barrett could still call upon them to interfere in the chairs match (Or any other one on one match).

Even if the GM banned them from the match how stupid would Nexus look if the rest of Nexus just sat in the back watching Cena take out the leader after the match?

The way it was booked worked as the Heel got his just desserts from the face after all the fan favourite was put through by the Man and the Group.

It should be obvious that I did not mean to build them up individually at the expense of continuing the wider "Nexus as One" angle. I simply mean that they should not have been booked to look as hopeless in one-on-one matches. To do that, they must be booked as being competitive in singles matches. That will naturally include run ins etc from the rest of Nexus. I also mentioned tag matches as being vital so that is naturally putting the group above the individual. I didn't think that I would have to spell that out. Everything that I have said was about building the overall Nexus faction. The Cena versus Barrett match I spoke of was where I said they should reveal the overall Nexus leader, again that puts the Nexus faction at the centre of the angle. I did not say to turn it into a 1 v 1 feud.

Anyway, back to Raw!

DM_7

parker kent wrote: »

It should be obvious that I did not mean to build them up individually at the expense of continuing the wider "Nexus as One" angle. I simply mean that they should not have been booked to look as hopeless in one-on-one matches. To do that, they must be booked as being competitive in singles matches. That will naturally include run ins etc from the rest of Nexus. I also mentioned tag matches as being vital so that is naturally putting the group above the individual. I didn't think that I would have to spell that out. Everything that I have said was about building the overall Nexus faction.

But everything you said wouldn't have aided the end result of Cena finally beating Barrett, so didn't need to be done. It would be a waste of screen time, screen time WWE were using to build people like Miz, Morrison, Bryan etc. People that were ready for one on one matches and ready to be in feuds people want to see. WWE didn't need Otunga, Slater, Perfect Jr, Husky or Gabriel to be competitive in single's matches.

Building individuals in Nexus other than Barrett for the Cena v Nexus feud would not have served any real purpose. There is plenty of time to do it later on when individuals have proved themselves ready to take the chance. WWE gave them screen time to talk and the likes of Gabriel were not ready, nobody stood out except Barrett.

DM_7

parker kent wrote: »

The Cena versus Barrett match I spoke of was where I said they should reveal the overall Nexus leader, again that puts the Nexus faction at the centre of the angle. I did not say to turn it into a 1 v 1 feud.

Anyway, back to Raw!

Funnily enough WWEs version of Nexus and Barrett v Cena did exactly that as we saw on RAW.

parker kent

DM-ICE wrote: »

Funnily enough WWEs version of Nexus and Barrett v Cena did exactly that as we saw on RAW.

Well I would hope that actual booking would be slightly better than a hastily written post on here. My original post on this matter basically was looking for better booking and I tried to give a few sample ideas of how they could have achieved that. I have had to write a few other posts clarifying what I intended due to some misunderstandings but it is not really something to be broken down and analysed.

This Raw seemed more like an after thought instead of being the end result of a carefully planned angle. I hoped that the true leader of Nexus being revealed would be a major and dramatic reveal. Instead we got Nexus entering "new management" and the idea of a "greater purpose" has been ignored for the last few months. The whole segment was poorly planned and had more holes than Swiss Cheese. They really should have put more effort into the Punk as Nexus leader angle.

Whatever you say, I cannot be convinced that Nexus (or the Punk swerve on Raw) have been sensibly booked.

DM_7

parker kent wrote: »

Well I would hope that actual booking would be slightly better than a hastily written post on here. My original post on this matter basically was looking for better booking and I tried to give a few sample ideas of they could have achieved that. I have had to write a few other posts clarifying what I intended due to some misunderstandings but it is not really something to be broken down and analysed.

This Raw seemed more like an after thought instead of being the end result of a carefully planned angle. I hoped that the true leader of Nexus being revealed would be a major and dramatic reveal. Instead we got Nexus entering "new management" and the idea of a "greater purpose" has been ignored for the last few months. The whole segment was poorly planned and had more holes than Swiss Cheese. They really should have put more effort into the Punk as Nexus leader angle.

Whatever you say, I cannot be convinced that Nexus (or the Punk swerve on Raw) have been sensibly booked.

The Nexus angle was far from perfect booking, there are things I would change myself in an ideal world and isolating the storyline. But considering its just one storyline inside WWE I think the have done a good job. They have done very well to get so many months out of Nexus v Cena.

Maybe you misunderstood the part of your post I was posting about?

DM-ICE wrote: »

If WWE did book the individuals of Nexus stronger where could they have gone with the storyline?

My original point was regarding the idea Neus individuals should have been pushed stronger. Having members of Nexus pushed outside the Cena v Nexus angle served no purpose up to now for the storyline post Summerslam.

parker kent

DM-ICE wrote: »

My original point was regarding the idea Neus individuals should have been pushed stronger. Having members of Nexus pushed outside the Cena v Nexus angle served no purpose up to now for the storyline post Summerslam.

I am not missing your point, you are still missing my point. I am saying that they should be pushed stronger in order to enhance the Cena angle. If they were shown to be decent in the ring, any time that Cena got the better of them, it would mean more. In other words, there should have been a period building up the Nexus guys. Instead they were booked from the beginning to be weak whenever they were on their own. A few matches here and there at the beginning showing them to be competent would have done wonders for Nexus.

DM_7

parker kent wrote: »

I am not missing your point, you are still missing my point. I am saying that they should be pushed stronger in order to enhance the Cena angle. If they were shown to be decent in the ring, any time that Cena got the better of them, it would mean more. In other words, there should have been a period building up the Nexus guys. Instead they were booked from the beginning to be weak whenever they were on their own. A few matches here and there at the beginning showing them to be competent would have done wonders for Nexus.

No I see saw your point, WWE should of Pushed Nexus individuals better in the ring to help the storyline.

It wouldn't have helped though, it was Cena v 6 other people, the fact he took apart the group was in many ways annoying enough and made Cena look great anyway , if he took apart a group full of over in ring competitors it would make the whole roster look ridiculous except super super super cena.

parker kent

DM-ICE wrote: »

No I see saw your point, WWE should of Pushed Nexus individuals better in the ring to help the storyline.

It wouldn't have helped though, it was Cena v 6 other people, the fact he took apart the group was in many ways annoying enough and made Cena look great anyway , if he took apart a group full of over in ring competitors it would make the whole roster look ridiculous except super super super cena.

Well I would never have booked Cena to ever go over on them all at the same time. Though if I had my way, Brock Lesnar would come back at Wrestlemania, beat Cena in the same style that Warrior beat HHH at Wrestlemania 12 and then Cena is never heard from again

But there would have been other ways for Cena to get an overall victory over Nexus without being booked as Superman. Hopefully Punk turns the next few weeks into better than TV than the last few months of Nexus. Hopefully it leads to Punk/Taker as well.

Exclamation Marc

DM-ICE wrote: »

The Nexus angle was far from perfect booking, there are things I would change myself in an ideal world and isolating the storyline. But considering its just one storyline inside WWE I think the have done a good job. They have done very well to get so many months out of Nexus v Cena.

I disagree, they've completely buried all of Nexus and Cena looks as strong as he did pre-Nexus.

The WWE have effectively fed promising talent to the Cena monster. I don't buy that "they were rookies" and therefore its somewhat believeable. They're portrayed as competant contracted wrestlers so being a "rookie" means nothing at all.

There's three problems I have with the booking.

A) Nexus should have looked stronger than they did against Cena himself, having 6 guys taken out by Cena was ridiculous and almost superhero like, and all it did was establish that Nexus guys are incompetent brainless weak nobodies.

Nexus should have looked stronger against other wrestlers to establish that they actually have talent and aren't just the next Spirit Squad.

C) Cena should never have conquered the entire group on his own, it was stupid stupid booking by the WWE. He should have done it with maybe 3 or more other guys. Cena already looks like a superhero in the WWE, this doesn't make him look better, it just denegrates any potential Nexus has.

How the hell do Nexus go from looking insanely powerful and a force to be reckoned with (the first night where they destroyed the place) to not even being able to take care of one wrestler, the answer is stupid stupid booking, as nobody gains anything out of this. Nexus still look incompetent, Barrett looks even more incompetent being completely unable to beat Cena even when he has "the power" to book Cena into a contract match, and Cena is still a superhero.

It should have been Nexus v Cena's faction from the start, not Cena on his own, and that way they could have actually done more with this.

The fact that you say this was a somwhat good booking job doesn't sit well because if you look back everyone said at the start that the Nexus angle was the hottest thing WWE had going for it, and what did they do..... fail to develop the rookies and keep their poster boy on top. Would Cena have lost anything by losing to Nexus?? Hell no, he was outnumbered. And if all they can get out of "the hottest angle" is 6-7 months, thats fast-tracked piss-poor booking. They botched again another hot angle, put it up there with the WCW invasion as a ruined potential epic.

parker kent

Glad to get some support on the Nexus botch-job!

Exclamation Marc

parker kent wrote: »

Glad to get some support on the Nexus botch-job!

Haha well its hard not to!

I mean if Nexus come out on top now it just looks like it was all down to Punk and Nexus had no real effect.

WWE should be trying to establish guys for the next couple of years not bury them to the new immortal one. Look what booking like this does to promising talent like the Spirit Squad, only one of that group is still in the WWE and thats despite being released in the meantime.

It's hard to get excited about promising WWE moments anymore....

Mr.Nice Guy

FireballPitcher wrote: »

I disagree, they've completely buried all of Nexus and Cena looks as strong as he did pre-Nexus.

The WWE have effectively fed promising talent to the Cena monster. I don't buy that "they were rookies" and therefore its somewhat believeable. They're portrayed as competant contracted wrestlers so being a "rookie" means nothing at all.

Did you watch NXT season 1 at all? They were being buried on that show well before Cena was anywhere near them. It's getting tiresome hearing Cena being blamed as the big bad boogeyman of the industry when he is by far and away the only real star they have.

FireballPitcher wrote:

There's three problems I have with the booking.

A) Nexus should have looked stronger than they did against Cena himself, having 6 guys taken out by Cena was ridiculous and almost superhero like, and all it did was establish that Nexus guys are incompetent brainless weak nobodies.

Nothing ridiculous about it considering most of the audience did not watch NXT season 1 and had no idea who these guys were coming in and kicking the crap out of the company's top guy. Let's remember that they did in fact destroy Cena when attacking as a unit and up to recent times this has been the case. When Austin took on the NWO he targeted Scott Hall and made him look like a fool. Was that OK? Was it ridiculous for The Rock to take on the McMahon/Helmsley faction on his own before Taker returned and got involved in the storyline?

The hero - Cena - quite obviously has to seek revenge on the guys that assaulted him like a pack of dogs. What would you have preferred? He get beaten up every week? He could get beaten up every week for 3 years and it still wouldn't get Otunga and Young over.

Fireball Pitcher wrote:

Nexus should have looked stronger against other wrestlers to establish that they actually have talent and aren't just the next Spirit Squad.

Slater got pinfall victories over Edge, Jericho and Sheamus. Barrett defeated Cena at Hell in a Cell to make Cena his slave essentially. Gabriel and Slater won the tag gold. These are the three guys with the most promise so I fail to see the problem here. Most guys in the company for years haven't come close to this, ie Dolph Ziggler.

Fireball Pitcher wrote:

C) Cena should never have conquered the entire group on his own, it was stupid stupid booking by the WWE. He should have done it with maybe 3 or more other guys. Cena already looks like a superhero in the WWE, this doesn't make him look better, it just denegrates any potential Nexus has.

What potential? Besides Barrett who is on the cusp of greatness? Barrett hasn't been hurt by his program with Cena, far from it, so why shouldn't Cena take out guys who are very green and a long way from being at Barrett's level?

Fireball Pitcher wrote:

How the hell do Nexus go from looking insanely powerful and a force to be reckoned with (the first night where they destroyed the place) to not even being able to take care of one wrestler, the answer is stupid stupid booking, as nobody gains anything out of this. Nexus still look incompetent, Barrett looks even more incompetent being completely unable to beat Cena even when he has "the power" to book Cena into a contract match, and Cena is still a superhero.

Wha? Nexus DID beat Cena up as a unit. They are a force when attacking as one. However Cena decided to take them out one by one which is not stupid booking but quite logical. The way some people go on you'd swear he had defeated them all at once. In fact there was one match on Raw where he did have to take them all and he lost:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXwSSufkoD4

Fireball Pitcher wrote:

The fact that you say this was a somwhat good booking job doesn't sit well because if you look back everyone said at the start that the Nexus angle was the hottest thing WWE had going for it, and what did they do..... fail to develop the rookies and keep their poster boy on top. Would Cena have lost anything by losing to Nexus?? Hell no, he was outnumbered. And if all they can get out of "the hottest angle" is 6-7 months, thats fast-tracked piss-poor booking. They botched again another hot angle, put it up there with the WCW invasion as a ruined potential epic.

You say the WWE failed 'to develop the rookies' but I think the truth is the rookies failed to show anything akin to what Barrett and Bryan showed. None of them appeared to be on the brink of greatness and so with that being the case Cena struggling to beat them would indeed have lost him something - credibility.

I think some fans are so blinded with the Cena hate goggles that they are seeing what they want to see rather than what's actually in front of them. Besides Barrett none of these guys are capable of being main eventers in the near future and yet people bitch because the top guy of the last 5 years is going through them easily? Why shouldn't he beat such green guys? It's in one on one matches, backstage assaults etc. so why not? Hell Rock and Austin did this kind of stuff to established guys from more renowned stables.

I can understand people complaining when Bryan was getting jobbed out on NXT season 1 because the guy had potential and wasn't being given a fair chance. But complaining because Cena makes David Otunga tap out in 2 minutes? Really? FFS Otunga should be thankful he even has a job in the company.

Bounty Hunter

split from Raw discussion thread

parker kent

I know this was for Fireball not me, but all the points could be directed towards my posts too soo I'll use this!

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Did you watch NXT season 1 at all? They were being buried on that show well before Cena was anywhere near them. It's getting tiresome hearing Cena being blamed as the big bad boogeyman of the industry when he is by far and away the only real star they have.

NXT has little to do with what happens on the main shows. NXT has a minuscule viewing audience and is basically just a means to an end. Danielson lost every match he had on it and that has not had any effect on his role on Raw. Just because people blame Cena (for very legitimate reasons) does not mean they are immune to other problems in the WWE either.

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Nothing ridiculous about it considering most of the audience did not watch NXT season 1 and had no idea who these guys were coming in and kicking the crap out of the company's top guy. Let's remember that they did in fact destroy Cena when attacking as a unit and up to recent times this has been the case. When Austin took on the NWO he targeted Scott Hall and made him look like a fool. Was that OK? Was it ridiculous for The Rock to take on the McMahon/Helmsley faction on his own before Taker returned and got involved in the storyline?

So should Brock Lesnar or Goldberg have come in as weak jobbers as well? Or Sheamus? Or basically any new star? The fans did not know who they were either. Steve Austin was booked too strong on occasions and it harmed the people he was taking out. But your example involves 1 v 3 and Austin turned it into 1 v 1. The Rock was not getting everything his way against the McMahon/Helmsley faction as is evidenced by need for The Undertaker to return. HHH is one of the most aggressively booked heels of all time. HHH and the others were given ample opportunity to get over and were talked about as being amongst the very best. There is no comparison to Nexus or Barrett. Nexus have been described as incapable of beating Cena or any other top guy (Just listen to the commentary). Orton v Barrett is a good example of where the WWE had to repair the damage to Barrett as they attempted to make fans believe Barrett was good enough to take the title. Fans simply didn't believe he would win. Cena has many times taken out Nexus in a 7 v 1 situation. They run at him like lemmings and get taken out in succession. It is ridiculous. Then add in his no-sell Superman recovery at Summerslam and the picture should be pretty clear, it has been made obvious that nobody in Nexus is remotely close to Cena. Fair enough if they book him as stronger, but it has been more than that. Cena rarely sells a beating for longer than 2 minutes.

For example, he should have missed several weeks after the original beating. Let Nexus get over and let anticipation of the returning Cena build as well. They could have been on TV saying they had finished the career of John Cena, building heat every week. Of course, have the returning face prevail. But have it happen after a struggle. It all smacks of too much, too soon.

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Wha? Nexus DID beat Cena up as a unit. They are a force when attacking as one. However Cena decided to take them out one by one which is not stupid booking but quite logical. The way some people go on you'd swear he had defeated them all at once. In fact there was one match on Raw where he did have to take them all and he lost:

Did you sleep through the many occasions on Raw where Cena has beat Nexus (as a group) like jobbers? They have beaten him as a unit, but that is matched by regular beatings from Cena. As for pointing out that Cena lost a 6 on 1 match, are you actually suggesting that there should have been some other outcome? It is actually ridiculous that he was competitive against 6 guys.

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

You say the WWE failed 'to develop the rookies' but I think the truth is the rookies failed to show anything akin to what Barrett and Bryan showed. None of them appeared to be on the brink of greatness and so with that being the case Cena struggling to beat them would indeed have lost him something - credibility.

How can they show anything when the entire angle is booked to enhance Cena? They've booked the entire angle in a way that Cena has just gone over even further as a babyface. Take Cena and David Otunga winning the Tag Team titles. (And yes Otunga is awful, but this is just an example of booking that prevents him from doing anything to stand out. For the record I would have had Gabriel in this role). Anyway that tag match should have been booked to help get Otunga over and make us take him seriously. I assure you, we're definitely not doing so now. Instead, they book him to look stupid and Cena does all the work and embarrasses him before walking off with the belts. Cena - over. Otunga - buried.

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I think some fans are so blinded with the Cena hate goggles that they are seeing what they want to see rather than what's actually in front of them. Besides Barrett none of these guys are capable of being main eventers in the near future and yet people bitch because the top guy of the last 5 years is going through them easily? Why shouldn't he beat such green guys? It's in one on one matches, backstage assaults etc. so why not? Hell Rock and Austin did this kind of stuff to established guys from more renowned stables.

I can understand people complaining when Bryan was getting jobbed out on NXT season 1 because the guy had potential and wasn't being given a fair chance. But complaining because Cena makes David Otunga tap out in 2 minutes? Really? FFS Otunga should be thankful he even has a job in the company.

I will say this, Otunga should not be near a wrestling ring. But some of the other guys have potential. Now I am not saying they will be mega stars, but they could become useful additions. But booking like this is a one way route to oblivion. It will take a major rebuilding job for any of them to get over on their own. They are just anonymous jobbers. They are like the Jokers Henchmen, faceless goons to be taken out by the superhero. The fact that there has been a continual change in members to little effect highlights this issue. The fans don't care about them. I could go out there some week with a Nexus T-shirt and it would not be noticed.

Throwing out the Cena hate goggles line is a pretty cheap way of diminishing any criticism towards him. You say he is their only real star. Well I say that under his time as the face of the WWE that ratings, buyrates and live attendances have drastically dropped. The move towards kid friendly angles has driven many older fans away. The Cena Sucks fans have not been won over, they just don't go any more. Obviously I do not blame Cena alone for the drop in business, but as the face of the WWE and the guy that the show is built around, he must take a lot of the blame.

As for the overall Nexus angle. I will add these points. Firstly they botched the Cena in Nexus aspect. The utter and complete refusal to have Cena act even slightly like he is in the group by not having him wear the Nexus shirt. That was just ridiculous. One of the reasons Nexus hasn't gone over nearly as well as they should have is merchandise sales. The Nexus T-shirt is selling poorly according to lots of reputable sources. What would be a perfect way to fix that? Make John Cena, the man who sells more merchandise than anyone else on the roster, wear it enough to make people want to buy it.

Lastly, the entire angle has been full of inconsistencies, set-up with no payoffs (Cena not being fired, the chats with R-Truth that basically went nowhere etc etc) and constant rebirths. The latest rebirth is yet another poorly executed idea. Punk as the leader of Nexus is a brilliant idea. But they basically blew their load 2 weeks after Punk suggested that there was somebody he was going to take out. In those 2 weeks, Punk revealed who he was after AND became the new leader of Nexus. It was such a rush job.

DM_7

FireballPitcher wrote: »

I disagree, they've completely buried all of Nexus and Cena looks as strong as he did pre-Nexus.

The WWE have effectively fed promising talent to the Cena monster. I don't buy that "they were rookies" and therefore its somewhat believable. They're portrayed as competant contracted wrestlers so being a "rookie" means nothing at all.

No Nexus were not completely buried, they kicked bits out of Cena this week so they must be okay. If you look at the groups existence in a time line they still look strong.

What promising talent was fed to Cena? Cena took out Otunga in a few matches as you would expect, after that he took them out in surprise attacks. What is so bad about that? Nothing.

FireballPitcher wrote: »

A) Nexus should have looked stronger than they did against Cena himself, having 6 guys taken out by Cena was ridiculous and almost superhero like, and all it did was establish that Nexus guys are incompetent brainless weak nobodies.

Nexus should have looked stronger against other wrestlers to establish that they actually have talent and aren't just the next Spirit Squad.

C) Cena should never have conquered the entire group on his own, it was stupid stupid booking by the WWE. He should have done it with maybe 3 or more other guys. Cena already looks like a superhero in the WWE, this doesn't make him look better, it just denegrates any potential Nexus has.

A B and C) Yes it was super hero like, but in fairness to WWE they are consistent in how Cena is booked! The whole storyline has confirmed Nexus as a Unit are strong but they have a weakness and that is they can be got to as individuals. There is nothing wrong with that, but the only guy who could get to them was Cena.

The Nexus did look strong since they formed, they got rid of Khali, scared Jericho away from them, scared Edge away from them, beat the **** out of Morrison, Bourne, Orton couldn't deal with them alone, Sheamus basically begged for a truce with them. They beat the **** out of Taker too.

Individuals inside Nexus who had in ring ability looked strong, Gabriel has had competeitive matches with Orton, Slater pinned more than one former world champion and they won the tag belts, only losing when Cena got involved. WWE made them look good without going over board.

The only Guy who could get to them was Cena, the biggest Star in the company, oh and where did it get him? It got him? It cost him the WWE title, his pride by having to join Nexus, got him fired and most recently when he thought he won, he was left lying on his back again at the hands of Nexus.

FireballPitcher wrote: »

How the hell do Nexus go from looking insanely powerful and a force to be reckoned with (the first night where they destroyed the place) to not even being able to take care of one wrestler, the answer is stupid stupid booking, as nobody gains anything out of this. Nexus still look incompetent, Barrett looks even more incompetent being completely unable to beat Cena even when he has "the power" to book Cena into a contract match, and Cena is still a superhero.

Do Nexus not look like a powerful force when they are a collective group? They looked pretty powerful on RAW. I think your forgetting WWE want Nexus to look powerful as a group but weak when they are split apart. That is the only way anyone can get the better of them, divide and conquer, it makes sense. It makes even more sense when you consider a few months ago they were all portrayed as rookies on NXT. Over the course of their existence Nexus members have had success, most of it to Gabriel, Slater and Barrett, but all success was through the group helping each other, which all fits in with the storyline.

FireballPitcher wrote: »

It should have been Nexus v Cena's faction from the start, not Cena on his own, and that way they could have actually done more with this.

Why, why should it have been gang v gang? Because you say so?
WWE didn't want Originals v Veterans or an Invasion v the whole WWE over 7 months. They had the gang v gang leading up to summerslam and then they moved on. Cena has had help on more than one occasion to take down Nexus as a group, he was never able to take down the collective group on his own. WWE wanted Cena v Nexus, and they got it.

FireballPitcher wrote: »

The fact that you say this was a somwhat good booking job doesn't sit well because if you look back everyone said at the start that the Nexus angle was the hottest thing WWE had going for it, and what did they do..... fail to develop the rookies and keep their poster boy on top. Would Cena have lost anything by losing to Nexus?? Hell no, he was outnumbered. And if all they can get out of "the hottest angle" is 6-7 months, thats fast-tracked piss-poor booking. They botched again another hot angle, put it up there with the WCW invasion as a ruined potential epic.

He did lose to Nexus more than once, they beat the hell out of him more than once,they beat him in a 5 on 5 Elimination match when Gabriel got the Pin (The second time he beat him) and even beat him at Hell n the Cell to make him join the Nexus!

It was a hot angle and still is, They Debuted in the first week of June and to still be talking about them v Cena going into 2011 is a good achievement by WWE. I already said I would change things that were booked, but I am not WWE, WWE have to respond to the crowd and keep them interested not just month to month but week to week.

Exclamation Marc

DM-ICE wrote: »

What promising talent was fed to Cena? Cena took out Otunga in a few matches as you would expect, after that he took them out in surprise attacks. What is so bad about that? Nothing.

Well if NXT is all about finding the next breakout star, and all that happens is that John Cena destroys them, there's a logical problem with the booking there. Why bother finding the "next star" if they're going to be booked into a feud where they get steamrolled, as if im not mistaken Cena still has had the upper hand up until Punk joined this week, more a reflection on Punk than NXT.

DM-ICE wrote: »

A B and C) Yes it was super hero like, but in fairness to WWE they are consistent in how Cena is booked! The whole storyline has confirmed Nexus as a Unit are strong but they have a weakness and that is they can be got to as individuals. There is nothing wrong with that, but the only guy who could get to them was Cena.

And how long do you really think the stable will last?? Realistically, every WWE faction has a short shelf life and sh!tty WWE booking destroys them when they EVENTUALLY break up. Look at the Spirit Squad where there was "strength as as number, but not as individuals", yeah those guys are doing great now as singles guys.

DM-ICE wrote: »

Slater pinned more than one former world champion and they won the tag belts, only losing when Cena got involved.

What are you talking about? It was Cena who won the tag belts with Otunga. Then they subbed out Cena and then they lost in a match against Kozlov/Santino, Henry/Tatsu and the Usos, hardly making them look very strong.

DM-ICE wrote: »

Why, why should it have been gang v gang? Because you say so?

No its called having an opinion different to the one WWE spoonfeeds you.

DM-ICE wrote: »

WWE didn't want Originals v Veterans or an Invasion v the whole WWE over 7 months. They had the gang v gang leading up to summerslam and then they moved on. Cena has had help on more than one occasion to take down Nexus as a group, he was never able to take down the collective group on his own. WWE wanted Cena v Nexus, and they got it.

Well why did Nexus suddenly go from targeting the WWE to Cena?? Crap booking which has seen a fresh batch of talent relegated to purely feuding with one guy. Why did WWE see the need to have Cena actually fired for a couple of minutes in reality. Was he ever off TV?? No. They would have had a much bigger impact if Cena disappeared for a while, Nexus tore havoc through the WWE and Cena made a big return. They botched his firing angle by having him on TV every week. They made Nexus look brainless by re-hiring him and again making Cena look ridiculously able to simply turn up and terrorise Nexus even though he was fired week-in, week-out.

Ok, well once WWE wanted it then I guess I have to agree with it yes?

DM-ICE wrote: »

It was a hot angle and still is, They Debuted in the first week of June and to still be talking about them v Cena going into 2011 is a good achievement by WWE. I already said I would change things that were booked, but I am not WWE, WWE have to respond to the crowd and keep them interested not just month to month but week to week.

You're completely missing my point on the whole thing. Whether you like it or not, Cena is getting the better of Nexus in the long run, which serves to make Nexus look very weak. One man is getting the better of six or seven whatever way you look at it. Logically this doesn't make those six or seven look very good, whether or not they've been divided and conquered or not.

This is very similar to the DX/Spirit Squad feud, where a couple of years later, most people couldnt tell you who the SS were despite them being very promising talent. It was their crappy booking of them as individual members of a group that led to them eventually breaking up and being out of WWE.

This Nexus feud is heading that way where Cena will get the victory in the war over Nexus, they'll break up and most of them will probably disappear, thats not very good booking for guys who are fresh and talented. What harm would have come out of Barrett getting the upper hand over Cena for a couple more months. None, the only person who comes out of this better is Cena, and thats pure sh!tty booking.

And now it looks like Nexus might only have a chance because CM Punk has turned up, hardly highlighting their potential.

parker kent

This from pwtorch.com made me laugh and had a few home truths in it too.

I applaud C.M. Punk for standing up to John Cena. Somebody has to stop that madman and his obsession with the word “poop."

Everyone knows there are two sides to John Cena: Mr. Poopyface and Mr. Warface. Now I’m tired of Mr. Warface and his cliches and fat jokes. Did you catch that “apology” Cena spouted off? Now we need an apology for the apology.

Fans harp on unprotected chair shots to the head because they care about the well-being of the performers. Likewise, we harp on fat jokes because we’re concerned about the messages WWE sends to people. PG WWE or not, I still wouldn’t let my multiple children from my baby mamas watch WWE.

Poor Wade Barrett. He’s still trapped underneath that avalanche of chairs. Blimey.

So, C.M. Punk has a new Straight Edge Society as the leader of Nexus. Oh-kay. You know, John Cena vs. five of those Nexus pixies was no match, but six? Impossible odds for Cena. He’s doomed. That’s the general consensus of this Punk-Nexus angle: “Great. Now what? Will Nexus actually do anything interesting? Or do the N-men only exist to sell more t-shirts?”

One of the main flaws with the Cena character recently is that he’s never at peril. So what if he gets beat down by Nexus? Next week, he’s doing the Dougie. I’m not writing this for comical effect; that’s what WWE showed us. They showed us that Cena can plow through Nexus without breaking a sweat. Even when enslaved or “fired,” he's Superman. It might connect with the kids, but does it connect with the overall audience?

There are things that I would like to see in this Punk-Cena feud: Cena disappointing a Cena fan with his actions, Nexus making it personal by involving John Cena, Sr. or another family member, and the return of Skip Sheffield. You take a look at Nexus, and they’re a bunch of dum-dums. Sheffield is a beast. He looks like a nutjob.

http://pwtorch.com/artman2/publish/absurityofitall/article_46391.shtml

Mr.Nice Guy

parker kent wrote: »

NXT has little to do with what happens on the main shows. NXT has a minuscule viewing audience and is basically just a means to an end. Danielson lost every match he had on it and that has not had any effect on his role on Raw. Just because people blame Cena (for very legitimate reasons) does not mean they are immune to other problems in the WWE either

I'm well aware of that but when people make out that 'Cena has buried Nexus' they have not been paying attention because the company made a conscious decision to job most of these guys out from the get go.

parker kent wrote:

So should Brock Lesnar or Goldberg have come in as weak jobbers as well? Or Sheamus? Or basically any new star? The fans did not know who they were either.

Do I really need to spell out the difference here? As I said in the prevous post the WWE tends to push big guys in a way that it doesn't do for other guys (see Kaval). Brock and Goldberg (and Heydenreich and Sheamus and Batista etc) were built strong because Vince has a love of big guys. This is fairly obvious.

parker kent wrote:

Steve Austin was booked too strong on occasions and it harmed the people he was taking out. But your example involves 1 v 3 and Austin turned it into 1 v 1. The Rock was not getting everything his way against the McMahon/Helmsley faction as is evidenced by need for The Undertaker to return. HHH is one of the most aggressively booked heels of all time. HHH and the others were given ample opportunity to get over and were talked about as being amongst the very best. There is no comparison to Nexus or Barrett.

You're missing the point. The babyface has to win out in the end. He is the hero. If Austin and Rock were facing Nexus the exact same logic would have applied. Nexus can destroy anyone, including Cena, when attacking as one, but when facing him one on one they have to be shown to be weaker because Cena is the top guy. This is the way it should be.

parker kent wrote:

Nexus have been described as incapable of beating Cena or any other top guy (Just listen to the commentary). Orton v Barrett is a good example of where the WWE had to repair the damage to Barrett as they attempted to make fans believe Barrett was good enough to take the title. Fans simply didn't believe he would win.

Nexus are supposed to be the dastardly villains so it's quite appropriate that they not be able to take out Cena or a top guy like Orton in a one on one situation, especially since they are rookies. I don't agree with you on Barrett either because from what I recall of Survivor Series many people felt Barrett was going to win the title and many view him as a genuine top guy now.

parker kent wrote:

Cena has many times taken out Nexus in a 7 v 1 situation. They run at him like lemmings and get taken out in succession. It is ridiculous. Then add in his no-sell Superman recovery at Summerslam and the picture should be pretty clear, it has been made obvious that nobody in Nexus is remotely close to Cena. Fair enough if they book him as stronger, but it has been more than that. Cena rarely sells a beating for longer than 2 minutes.

He has used a chair in such a situation (see the video I posted). This is no more ridiculous than when Austin returned at Backlash 2000 and destroyed the McMahon/Helmsley faction or when Taker returned at Judgement Day in the same year (and destroyed them without a chair!). People complain about Cena no selling but most of the fans watching do not want to see their hero getting the crap kicked out of him every week and being made look like a sap.

parker kent wrote:

For example, he should have missed several weeks after the original beating. Let Nexus get over and let anticipation of the returning Cena build as well. They could have been on TV saying they had finished the career of John Cena, building heat every week. Of course, have the returning face prevail. But have it happen after a struggle. It all smacks of too much, too soon.

I agree with you on this but this is not Cena's fault. The company are terrified of doing a Raw without their top guy.

parker kent wrote:

Did you sleep through the many occasions on Raw where Cena has beat Nexus (as a group) like jobbers? They have beaten him as a unit, but that is matched by regular beatings from Cena. As for pointing out that Cena lost a 6 on 1 match, are you actually suggesting that there should have been some other outcome? It is actually ridiculous that he was competitive against 6 guys.

Did you sleep through when Benoit beat the rest of the Radicalz in a gauntlet match? These were wrestlers who were established and far better in the ring than the green rookies of Nexus. Cena can't beat Nexus as one and this establishes to the majority of the audience that these dastardly heels would get their comeuppance if Cena could only face them one on one - in other words it's called logical booking and keeps the fans invested in the storyline. If you expect Justin Gabriel to be beating Cena clean without the rest of his buddies then to be honest just watch Impact because that's the home of illogical booking. That would actually put Cena back and make a mess of the storyline overall.

parker kent wrote:

How can they show anything when the entire angle is booked to enhance Cena? They've booked the entire angle in a way that Cena has just gone over even further as a babyface. Take Cena and David Otunga winning the Tag Team titles. (And yes Otunga is awful, but this is just an example of booking that prevents him from doing anything to stand out. For the record I would have had Gabriel in this role). Anyway that tag match should have been booked to help get Otunga over and make us take him seriously. I assure you, we're definitely not doing so now. Instead, they book him to look stupid and Cena does all the work and embarrasses him before walking off with the belts. Cena - over. Otunga - buried.

We can't take Otunga seriously because he's just sh*t. They did an angle where Otunga was a GM for a night and got to get one over on Cena (this was when he was on NXT as I recall), they have featured him prominently in a war of power with Barrett over Nexus, they have given him plenty of screen time in backstage segments - the guy just sucks. He is not going to be taken seriously no matter how they book him. Gabriel and Slater got the tag straps and no one cared because the tag division is a joke. To say the angle is designed to enhance Cena is way off the mark. It's to try and get the Nexus guys over and it has worked with Barrett but the rest just aren't at his level.

parker kent wrote:

I will say this, Otunga should not be near a wrestling ring. But some of the other guys have potential. Now I am not saying they will be mega stars, but they could become useful additions. But booking like this is a one way route to oblivion. It will take a major rebuilding job for any of them to get over on their own. They are just anonymous jobbers. They are like the Jokers Henchmen, faceless goons to be taken out by the superhero. The fact that there has been a continual change in members to little effect highlights this issue. The fans don't care about them. I could go out there some week with a Nexus T-shirt and it would not be noticed.

No one has answered something I've said the last few points - which one of the guys besides Barrett is on the cusp of greatness? I would reiterate that the talented guys besides Barrett will take years to get to his level so does it make sense to push guys who are green and at the expense of your top guys? I say no.

parker kent wrote:

Throwing out the Cena hate goggles line is a pretty cheap way of diminishing any criticism towards him. You say he is their only real star. Well I say that under his time as the face of the WWE that ratings, buyrates and live attendances have drastically dropped. The move towards kid friendly angles has driven many older fans away. The Cena Sucks fans have not been won over, they just don't go any more. Obviously I do not blame Cena alone for the drop in business, but as the face of the WWE and the guy that the show is built around, he must take a lot of the blame.

Nothing cheap about it when people make out as if he books the show. He does what he is told and for the record the rating dropped even worse when Orton got the belt (went to a record low at one stage) and as you point out the company won't take him off the air even for a week so that says it all about how important he is to them. If you think things are bad now just imagine how it would be with Orton as the top babyface. :pac:

parker kent wrote:

As for the overall Nexus angle. I will add these points. Firstly they botched the Cena in Nexus aspect. The utter and complete refusal to have Cena act even slightly like he is in the group by not having him wear the Nexus shirt. That was just ridiculous. One of the reasons Nexus hasn't gone over nearly as well as they should have is merchandise sales. The Nexus T-shirt is selling poorly according to lots of reputable sources. What would be a perfect way to fix that? Make John Cena, the man who sells more merchandise than anyone else on the roster, wear it enough to make people want to buy it.

Lastly, the entire angle has been full of inconsistencies, set-up with no payoffs (Cena not being fired, the chats with R-Truth that basically went nowhere etc etc) and constant rebirths. The latest rebirth is yet another poorly executed idea. Punk as the leader of Nexus is a brilliant idea. But they basically blew their load 2 weeks after Punk suggested that there was somebody he was going to take out. In those 2 weeks, Punk revealed who he was after AND became the new leader of Nexus. It was such a rush job.

I disagree with your negativity. The Nexus beatdown of Cena was arguably the moment of the year. The angle in which Cena had to join Nexus got over very well (particularly with the younger fans and the night after when Cena had to put the N armband on), the match with Barrett and Orton was probably the most interesting angle they have done in a long time and the stipulation about Cena being free or fired got over bigger than the match (saying a lot about Orton's value as champ). And if that's not all they managed to make Barrett come across as a bona fide star (despite him not having wrestled much prior to NXT season 1) and they have managed to keep the angle going that many feared would end at Hell in a Cell.

To me that's not a bad result for a group of rookies and I ask again - who besides Barrett is going to be a star in the near future? If the answer is none of them - and I would argue this is the answer - then what the hell is wrong with the top star in the indssutry making them tap out, hitting them with chairs backstage, etc. Hell, the Spirit Squad were packed off to OVW for less so they should be thankful they are getting screen time when you consider that more talented guys than them have been future endeavoured.

JP Liz V1

It will be interesting to see what happens with Nexus when Taker returns. I mean has their involvement in his burial match with Kane been mentioned at all so far i.e. there reason for the attack, will it lead to Barrett V Taker at next year's Mania perhaps or is everyone still hoping for Cena V Taker how I dont know tbh :rolleyes:

parker kent

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

To me that's not a bad result for a group of rookies and I ask again - who besides Barrett is going to be a star in the near future? If the answer is none of them - and I would argue this is the answer - then what the hell is wrong with the top star in the indssutry making them tap out, hitting them with chairs backstage, etc. Hell, the Spirit Squad were packed off to OVW for less so they should be thankful they are getting screen time when you consider that more talented guys than them have been future endeavoured.

You mention "becoming a big star" several times. I have never said that any of them were about to become a major star. The group had Barrett as the main guy. But Skip Sheffield matches the typical look of a main eventer and it could have been plausible that he could have made the leap. But, and I consider this a big but, several of the others could have become upper mid card guys. A role which is extremely important in wrestling and consistent burials end any hope of that. Not every angle HAS to create new main event talent.

But that aspect is not my major issue with the burials and you seem to miss my main point. Forget about the future, Cena taking out Nexus en-masse ruins the angle as it happens. Fans watching Raw will say "Well I just watched Cena take them out easily on Raw, why should I pay to see the PPV?". That is the crucial aspect to all that I say. It is shoddy booking. The Undertaker coming back at Judgement Day and taking out the McMahon/Helmsleys was on PPV and marked his long-awaited comeback. It was a big moment. Cena needlessly taking out Nexus on numerous Raws is not a big moment. If it only happened once or twice in the angle, I could say fair enough.

The constant Cena references here are also diluting the argument about Nexus being poorly booked. The 5-on-5 match on Smackdown is a good example. Nobody in Nexus got an opportunity to show anything in the match. The established WWE guys were shown to be clearly better. Where is the logic in that? How does that make people think "WOW I really have to pay to see these Nexus guys on PPV!". Matches on TV should be booked in a way that makes people want to pay for PPVs.

I would also strongly disagree about the Spirit Squad. Many were talented and could have played useful roles on TV. Kenny was obviously the stand-out and the moronic booking of the angle ruined his hopes of making it on his own. When they tried to book him as a singles wrestler, he had zero credibility due to the booking of the DX feud.

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Do I really need to spell out the difference here? As I said in the prevous post the WWE tends to push big guys in a way that it doesn't do for other guys (see Kaval). Brock and Goldberg (and Heydenreich and Sheamus and Batista etc) were built strong because Vince has a love of big guys. This is fairly obvious

This quote did not need to be said as I made it extremely obvious I was not comparing the guys in Nexus directly with Goldberg and Lesnar in terms of talent. I even went to the effort of saying that explicitly in an earlier post. I was using them as an example of new guys being booked strongly despite the fans not knowing them. You had said that Nexus could not be booked strongly as the fans did not know them, that is not true as it has often happened that unknowns get booked strongly.

Exclamation Marc

parker kent wrote: »

You mention "becoming a big star" several times. I have never said that any of them were about to become a major star. The group had Barrett as the main guy. But Skip Sheffield matches the typical look of a main eventer and it could have been plausible that he could have made the leap. But, and I consider this a big but, several of the others could have become upper mid card guys. A role which is extremely important in wrestling and consistent burials end any hope of that. Not every angle HAS to create new main event talent.

But that aspect is not my major issue with the burials and you seem to miss my main point. Forget about the future, Cena taking out Nexus en-masse ruins the angle as it happens. Fans watching Raw will say "Well I just watched Cena take them out easily on Raw, why should I pay to see the PPV?". That is the crucial aspect to all that I say. It is shoddy booking. The Undertaker coming back at Judgement Day and taking out the McMahon/Helmsleys was on PPV and marked his long-awaited comeback. It was a big moment. Cena needlessly taking out Nexus on numerous Raws is not a big moment. If it only happened once or twice in the angle, I could say fair enough.

The constant Cena references here are also diluting the argument about Nexus being poorly booked. The 5-on-5 match on Smackdown is a good example. Nobody in Nexus got an opportunity to show anything in the match. The established WWE guys were shown to be clearly better. Where is the logic in that? How does that make people think "WOW I really have to pay to see these Nexus guys on PPV!". Matches on TV should be booked in a way that makes people want to pay for PPVs.

I would also strongly disagree about the Spirit Squad. Many were talented and could have played useful roles on TV. Kenny was obviously the stand-out and the moronic booking of the angle ruined his hopes of making it on his own. When they tried to book him as a singles wrestler, he had zero credibility due to the booking of the DX feud.



This quote did not need to be said as I made it extremely obvious I was not comparing the guys in Nexus directly with Goldberg and Lesnar in terms of talent. I even went to the effort of saying that explicitly in an earlier post. I was using them as an example of new guys being booked strongly despite the fans not knowing them. You had said that Nexus could not be booked strongly as the fans did not know them, that is not true as it has often happened that unknowns get booked strongly.

Completely agree with everything here.

The way I look at it, with NXT and Nexus you had six or seven guys (excluding Danielson who was pretty well known) who were effectively putty in the WWE's hands. Guys who nobody knew squat about or where they were before or what they did. And they effectively booked them into the ground.

The booking of Nexus is classic WWE booking crap. Cena (and sub his name for anyone, I'm not Cena-hating) could lose matches for the next two months and his credibility would remain intact. The first year of the Nexus guys careers are crucial as they need that strong booking to get established, and being booked as being so crap that one man is getting the upper hand over them is detrimental to their status.

Remember the start of Nexus (I go back to this again), they terrorised the WWE and had everyone including the boss dealt with.

Now they're struggling with one guy, and the rest of WWE doesn't give a crap about Nexus, they barely even reference them, this shows how they've gone from being a danger to the WWE to being an opponent to Cena, and if they win they gain nothing because Cena is one man and it now makes Punk look like the crucial factor. And if they lose they lose a hell of a lot because it shows that they suck as a group which reflects on their individual ability.

Nexus are in a no-win situation now.

Mr.Nice Guy

parker kent wrote: »

You mention "becoming a big star" several times. I have never said that any of them were about to become a major star. The group had Barrett as the main guy. But Skip Sheffield matches the typical look of a main eventer and it could have been plausible that he could have made the leap. But, and I consider this a big but, several of the others could have become upper mid card guys. A role which is extremely important in wrestling and consistent burials end any hope of that. Not every angle HAS to create new main event talent.

There are plenty of upper mid card guys already. Kingston, Ziggler, Swagger to name a few. To suggest any of the Nexus guys (besides Barrett obviously) are even close to being at their level I think is a massive stretch. Sheffield hasn't got the wrestling ability to be a main eventer any time soon. Not every angle has to create main event talent that is indeed true, but when you are in there with a bona fide star it's a bit ridiculous to be complaining when the star takes out green guys who are a LONG way from making it. They are just starting out and will not be hurt by being made to loook inferior to the top guy.

parker kent wrote:

But that aspect is not my major issue with the burials and you seem to miss my main point. Forget about the future, Cena taking out Nexus en-masse ruins the angle as it happens. Fans watching Raw will say "Well I just watched Cena take them out easily on Raw, why should I pay to see the PPV?". That is the crucial aspect to all that I say. It is shoddy booking. The Undertaker coming back at Judgement Day and taking out the McMahon/Helmsleys was on PPV and marked his long-awaited comeback. It was a big moment. Cena needlessly taking out Nexus on numerous Raws is not a big moment. If it only happened once or twice in the angle, I could say fair enough.

Cena is only taking out the green guys. Barrett has not been hurt whatsoever, quite the opposite. Imagine complaining about Road Dogg being made to look weak when Taker returned in 2000. No one would have said that because he was never going to be in the main event picture any time soon (and he had way more talent than most Nexus guys and was not green). Guys like Young and Tarver etc. have been treated like Cena fodder because that is their level at this moment in time. If this stuff was happening to Barrett I could understand the frustration but he has gotten one over on Cena for most of the feud (making him get coffee, wear Nexus attire, lose battle royales etc.) You can't dismiss that aspect of it.

parker kent wrote:

The constant Cena references here are also diluting the argument about Nexus being poorly booked. The 5-on-5 match on Smackdown is a good example. Nobody in Nexus got an opportunity to show anything in the match. The established WWE guys were shown to be clearly better. Where is the logic in that? How does that make people think "WOW I really have to pay to see these Nexus guys on PPV!". Matches on TV should be booked in a way that makes people want to pay for PPVs.

I would also strongly disagree about the Spirit Squad. Many were talented and could have played useful roles on TV. Kenny was obviously the stand-out and the moronic booking of the angle ruined his hopes of making it on his own. When they tried to book him as a singles wrestler, he had zero credibility due to the booking of the DX feud.

Let's be honest nobody is buying a PPV to see Heath Slater and Justin Gabriel. I like them and feel they are two with potential years from now but they are so obviously far from being stars at this moment that booking them better wouldn't change that fact. Have you seen their segments backstage? It's wooden acting that would make the trees in Lord Of The Rings proud and only last week Gabriel f*cked up a spot where he just had to RAISE HIS ARM. They're green. They need time. It's no biggie that Cena, Orton et. all are shown to be superior.

Interesting too that you mention Kenny as well. When he got his singles push I believe he had THREE victories over Ric Flair and where did it get him? Nowhere. In fact, the concensus was that this series hurt Flair far more than put over Dykstra and is a good example of how you can hurt an established guy by giving a young guy victories before they are ready.

parker kent wrote:

This quote did not need to be said as I made it extremely obvious I was not comparing the guys in Nexus directly with Goldberg and Lesnar in terms of talent. I even went to the effort of saying that explicitly in an earlier post. I was using them as an example of new guys being booked strongly despite the fans not knowing them. You had said that Nexus could not be booked strongly as the fans did not know them, that is not true as it has often happened that unknowns get booked strongly.

But you miss the point again - these were singles athletes who were BIG MEN which Vince McMahon has always sought to push strongly. That is a world of difference to a group of rookies who are mainly small and limited in what they can do. That is an important distinction. McMahon will always push the big, muscular behemoths even if they are green and suck hugely - ie Khali - because the view is the audience will accept it. Cena being taken out by Khali is something the majority of fans will buy because of the guy's size. Doesn't matter that he sucks. But to expect a guy like Otunga - who sucks - to be able to take out Cena would just end up hurting Cena's credibility hugely and would do nothing for Otunga in the long run, who hasn't got power or size as a crutch.

DM_7

FireballPitcher wrote: »

Well if NXT is all about finding the next breakout star, and all that happens is that John Cena destroys them, there's a logical problem with the booking there. Why bother finding the "next star" if they're going to be booked into a feud where they get steamrolled, as if im not mistaken Cena still has had the upper hand up until Punk joined this week, more a reflection on Punk than NXT.

Yes a star not a superstar. Cena is a superstar, how do you make a superstar look good. Cena has done everything there is to do. Nexus have served WWEs purpose of making Cena look even better. Nothing wrong with that.

FireballPitcher wrote: »

And how long do you really think the stable will last?? Realistically, every WWE faction has a short shelf life and sh!tty WWE booking destroys them when they EVENTUALLY break up. Look at the Spirit Squad where there was "strength as as number, but not as individuals", yeah those guys are doing great now as singles guys.

The spirit squad? Seriously? The guys that used to dress as male cheer leaders and use a trampoline in their offensive arsenal? The Gimmick destroyed them. Just because they were a group doesn't make their future comparable when Nexus were always portrayed as serious while the spirit squad were always a joke because of the gimmick they had.

FireballPitcher wrote: »

What are you talking about? It was Cena who won the tag belts with Otunga. Then they subbed out Cena and then they lost in a match against Kozlov/Santino, Henry/Tatsu and the Usos, hardly making them look very strong.

Its about credentials, Gabriel and Slater are former tag champs and when Nexus dissolve that stat will be used and will help them. Slater will always be able to say he pinned Jericho etc (The way Jericho says he beat The Rock and Austin on the same night). Gabriel can say he pinned Cena twice. These are things that give them a background and increases their chance of success.

FireballPitcher wrote: »

No its called having an opinion different to the one WWE spoonfeeds you.

Yes an opinion, WWE have a end result they are trying to get too, I have agreed with how they are getting to the end result and if the way you wanted it booked, was booked, WWE would not have achieved the end result they wanted. It really doesn't matter what you or I want from the Nexus, I wanted more form the storyline but I understand and Acknowledge why WWE have booked what they have booked.

FireballPitcher wrote: »

Well why did Nexus suddenly go from targeting the WWE to Cena?? Crap booking which has seen a fresh batch of talent relegated to purely feuding with one guy. Why did WWE see the need to have Cena actually fired for a couple of minutes in reality. Was he ever off TV?? No. They would have had a much bigger impact if Cena disappeared for a while, Nexus tore havoc through the WWE and Cena made a big return. They botched his firing angle by having him on TV every week. They made Nexus look brainless by re-hiring him and again making Cena look ridiculously able to simply turn up and terrorise Nexus even though he was fired week-in, week-out.

Cena was fired for all of Two minutes as WWE wanted Cena to stay on TV. Which you should understand if you recognise the guys profile and HBK, Batista, Jericho and HHH are not Retired/Injured/On Secondment.

WWE didn't want Nexus ripping WWE apart they wanted a feud for Cena. I would have taken him TV too but WWE were understandably reluctant and it gave ammunition to Punk for the current storyline so it achieved something too.

FireballPitcher wrote: »

Ok, well once WWE wanted it then I guess I have to agree with it yes?

You're completely missing my point on the whole thing. Whether you like it or not, Cena is getting the better of Nexus in the long run, which serves to make Nexus look very weak. One man is getting the better of six or seven whatever way you look at it. Logically this doesn't make those six or seven look very good, whether or not they've been divided and conquered or not.

No I see you point, I don't like the fact Cena is getting the better of Nexus in the long run (But since he is a face he has too) but you miss the point of the storyline. Its not about Nexus in the long run. Its about a way to keep Cena out of other peoples way for a while.

FireballPitcher wrote: »

This is very similar to the DX/Spirit Squad feud, where a couple of years later, most people couldnt tell you who the SS were despite them being very promising talent. It was their crappy booking of them as individual members of a group that led to them eventually breaking up and being out of WWE.

No it was the crap Gimmick that ruined them and led to the booking. Imagine if DX lost to a bunch of Male Cheer leaders? :pac:

FireballPitcher wrote: »

This Nexus feud is heading that way where Cena will get the victory in the war over Nexus, they'll break up and most of them will probably disappear, thats not very good booking for guys who are fresh and talented. What harm would have come out of Barrett getting the upper hand over Cena for a couple more months. None, the only person who comes out of this better is Cena, and thats pure sh!tty booking.

And now it looks like Nexus might only have a chance because CM Punk has turned up, hardly highlighting their potential.

Nexus had the upper hand over Cena long enough, he had to Join Nexus, was fired and then got some revenge, now Nexus have the upper hand again, adding Punk to the mix makes it Fresh. We are on the road to wrestlemania, even booking individuals from Nexus stronger wouldn't have provided the group with the legs to get to mania against Cena without adding something new.

Also if the likes of Otunga, Tarver and Young disappear will you really be sorry?


I think your missing the whole point of Nexus. Nexus was never about establishing 7 new super stars, it was about freshening things up.

In the time people were bitching and moaning (Me included) about the "Burial" of Nexus (What have they ever done to deserve more) WWE have used the Nexus as a way to get the title off Cena. Something we should all be delighted about.

They have used Nexus to fill the massive void left by HBK and Batista leaving, they have also helped with the loss of Jerciho and the Injured/Resting HHH.

In the time you wanted WWE to make Nexus Stronger, WWE have used the Nexus Distraction to Crown Miz as Champion, Push Daniel Bryan, Push Morrison and most importantly establish another desperately needed uber face in Randy Orton.

The time WWE would of used to Establish Nexus Members would take chances away from other people. People that have put in the years to deserve a push like Morrison, Bryan and Miz. They wouldn't have got a chance and Randy Orton would never have lasted as a face if Cena was in his way. In fact WWE were able to use Nexus to get Cena and Orton on screen at the same time to get them both even more over as faces.

(Before anyone says Bryan was a "rookie" too, he has real experience and was signed by WWE with an eye to moving to the main roster quickly unlike the rest of Nexus. If he wasn't on NXT we probably wouldn't have Nexus at all!)

I don't like what happened with Nexus in isolation but the bigger Picture is better than it was before Nexus. I am looking at what WWE have achieved in the time Nexus are around.

It has to be remembered Nexus members are only around 7 months, if individuals are good enough they will get a chance but I am delighted with the overall impact Nexus have had on WWE.