Soon to need a prescription for Nurofen/Solphadine/etc?

Logical Fallacy

gcgirl wrote: »

I suffer from back pain, Trap nerve down my left side, Mingraine since i was 7/8,
Sinus problems in which some cases i am trying to get silicon like **** out of my nose and a freaking prolasped womb, I suppose i could stay in bed but i've 3 kids to raise and i need my pain killers before i end up killing some one!

Look, with all due respect to your medical issues your are pretty much a prime case for someone who could end up being addicted to painkillers.

Just because there is a legitimate need for something doesn't mean you won't end up addicted to whatever you are taking for it.

gcgirl

Should i just pay the 60 euro for a script from the doctor i know i am gonna get, this counrty is ****ed you dont see people who drink getting refused alcohol even though its far worse!

Kurtosis

gcgirl wrote: »

Should i just pay the 60 euro for a script from the doctor i know i am gonna get, this counrty is ****ed you dont see people who drink getting refused alcohol even though its far worse!

If you liken codeine-containing medicines to booze, that says a lot really...

Over-the-counter medicines are for the short-term treatment of minor conditions. If it's something serious/long-term, a doctor should really be consulted.

gcgirl

penguin88 wrote: »

If you liken codeine-containing medicines to booze, that says a lot really...

Over-the-counter medicines are for the short-term treatment of minor conditions. If it's something serious/long-term, a doctor should really be consulted.

Says a lot???

who has 60 euro to see a doctor when you know yourself what the problem is!

Kurtosis

gcgirl wrote: »

Says a lot???

who has 60 euro to see a doctor when you know yourself what the problem is!

Yes, it says a lot about attitudes to medicines. Codeine and alcohol can both be addictive and that's where the comparison ends. Codeine medicines are not recreational drugs. Alcohol is not a medicine with indicated uses sold by a healthcare professional.

You're also implying that the only reason to go to a doctor is to get a diagnosis, this is not the case.

michael2121

well why the medication has been made so difficult to get is because of addiction.

So in that case we should have to listen to a lecture every time someone wants to buy cigarettes and alcohol.

"can i get 6 cans please "

No i can only give you 3 as alcohol can lead to alcoholism !!!!!

Better get cracking on it cowen. got to stop this alcohol and tobacco epidemic that has taken over the country. make it harder to buy !!!!!!!
people know the dangers of these and the same is the case when it comes to codeine containing products

Calibos

michael2121 wrote: »

well why the medication has been made so difficult to get is because of addiction.

So in that case we should have to listen to a lecture every time someone wants to buy cigarettes and alcohol.

"can i get 6 cans please "

No i can only give you 3 as alcohol can lead to alcoholism !!!!!

Better get cracking on it cowen. got to stop this alcohol and tobacco epidemic that has taken over the country. make it harder to buy !!!!!!!
people know the dangers of these and the same is the case when it comes to codeine containing products

They should do that with cigarettes too.

"Can I get 20 JP Blue please?"

"No I can only sell you 10"

.........Hey, hold on a minute

Logical Fallacy

michael2121 wrote: »

well why the medication has been made so difficult to get is because of addiction.

So in that case we should have to listen to a lecture every time someone wants to buy cigarettes and alcohol.

"can i get 6 cans please "

No i can only give you 3 as alcohol can lead to alcoholism !!!!!

Better get cracking on it cowen. got to stop this alcohol and tobacco epidemic that has taken over the country. make it harder to buy !!!!!!!
people know the dangers of these and the same is the case when it comes to codeine containing products

lol, it's pretty clear that people actually DON'T know the dangers of codeine containing products.

michael2121

or no sorry you will have to bring you and 4 smoking friends in and you can share a box as it leads to ADDICTION !!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!


F**King idiots in this country how about we start on Crystal meth, Crack, Heroine, Cocaine, and then crack down on the ordinary decent people who have a f**king headache !!!! !!!

__________________

Logical Fallacy :
How about we release info about the risks of becoming addicted instead of making it so you have to lie to get some when you genuinely need it ?

Rhinocharge

I buy mine @ http://www.chemistdirect.co.uk/
Ordered Monday, delivered Friday plus they do extra strenght Solpadeine Max, plus a range of other meds. Delivery £3.95 to RoI, but it's worth it for the hassle free shopping.
They even take PayPal.

Not affiliated in anyway, in case anyone asks.

Kurtosis

michael2121 wrote: »

well why the medication has been made so difficult to get is because of addiction.

That's your opinion. I believe the fact that these medicines are often misused (in many cases unintentionally) is the reason these guidelines have been brought in. Misuse can have a number of consequences, including addiction, other codeine side effects (rebound headaches, constipation) and paracetamol/ibuprofen side effects. The point is these products do serve a purpose as second line painkillers for short-term use and are still fully available for their licensed indications.

people know the dangers of these and the same is the case when it comes to codeine containing products

This really is not the case. Plenty of people had no idea what the difference between nurofen and nurofen plus are, were ignorant to the potential hazards of codeine and did not know that Solpadeine has a good bit of caffeine in it.

michael2121 wrote: »

Logical Fallacy :
How about we release info about the risks of becoming addicted instead of making it so you have to lie to get some when you genuinely need it ?

But why? I thought everyone already knew the risks?

Logical Fallacy

michael2121 wrote: »

Logical Fallacy :
How about we release info about the risks of becoming addicted instead of making it so you have to lie to get some when you genuinely need it ?

Okay Michael, after a comment like that i will give you the benefit of the doubt, but do you not think if you need to lie then you don't genuinely need it?

SeaFields

I hope they do make the codeine products prescription only soon. Working in a chemist I have seen colleagues reduced to tears by the torrent of abuse laid at them when they dare to ask the questions they are now bound to ask by the new regulations. I wish they would just take it out of the hands of the staff - pharmacists and OTC staff.

If a person is willing to get that abusive, worked up and angry when the self medication of their problem is being questioned, and the staff doing their up most to recommend the actual best course of action, then that person needs to take a serious look at themselves and their habits.

michael2121

penguin88 wrote: »

But why? I thought everyone already knew the risks?

Well for those who apparently do not know the risks lets give them the info so everyone knows. All it would take is a short radio/TV campaign and your pharmacy telling you that 3 days is the max you should take them for. but thats too logical for Ireland now isn't it.

as someone said to me : there is the right way, the wrong way and the irish way

michael2121

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

Okay Michael, after a comment like that i will give you the benefit of the doubt, but do you not think if you need to lie then you don't genuinely need it?

well i had to get it for my girlfriend who was at home with a terrible headache and just for everyone's info it has helped her and a 24 box would last a long long time in our household. the lie i told was that it was for me because they would not sell it unless she went there herself. thats ridiculous when you think about it ?

Kurtosis

michael2121 wrote: »

Well for those who apparently do not know the risks lets give them the info so everyone knows. All it would take is a short radio/TV campaign and your pharmacy telling you that 3 days is the max you should take them for. but thats too logical for Ireland now isn't it.

as someone said to me : there is the right way, the wrong way and the irish way

Part of the guidance that has been brought in includes counselling of anyone buying these products on the correct use as well as the side effects and risks. Here's a copy of the guidelines if it's of any interest.

michael2121

thanks for the info will read it now. was looking for info and found it difficult to find statistics or info.

Logical Fallacy

michael2121 wrote: »

well i had to get it for my girlfriend who was at home with a terrible headache and just for everyone's info it has helped her and a 24 box would last a long long time in our household. the lie i told was that it was for me because they would not sell it unless she went there herself. thats ridiculous when you think about it ?

Nope, i really don't think it's ridiculous.

Must be some headache is she needs to take codeine for it. You are aware that Codeine is an opioid and not that that many countries allow it's sale over the counter, right?

KilaWhale

A girl asked me for a box of Solpadeine today and in accordance with best practice (national and international), I asked her what type of pain she was experiencing to which she replied that she had cystitis and the odd twinging pain when going to the bathroom. I asked her if she had tried anything else to which she smirked at me and said 'i know I am not addicted to codeine so you can stop with all your questioning'.

I am not an emotional person but I felt like welling up as she looked at me with obvious disdain. I spent five years training to be a pharmacist and do not deserve to be looked upon as a piece of dirt on someone's shoe. I apologise if advising a patient to use an appropriate OTC medicine for their specific pain is deemed to be inappropriate but I am ultimately responsible for the sale and use of any OTC medicines sold under my watch. Thus I aim to provide the best possible care.

The fact is that codeine has weak opioid activity and thus has the potential to cause dependence. This dependence is not a sign of weakness in the person taking the drug for legitimate reasons, but merely a physiological response which can cause rebound headache or slight withdrawal symptoms if used for longer than approximately three days. Codeine is underestimated in terms of its constipatory and sedatory side effects and is often requested by its reputation as the most effective painkiller. This is not the case. Codeine does not possess the same anti-inflammatory activity as over the counter ibuprofen (Nurofen) and its the available dosage for OTC use is inferior to paracetamol alone. Codeine is used only to add on to the effects of other OTC analgesics.

In addition to this, theoretically as our bodies grow more tolerant to OTC opioids (albeit weak ones) there is always the possibility that we will be less responsive to stronger opioids such as morphine in times of need.

Please do not view a pharmacist with disdain if they ask you questions regarding a minor ailment. I understand the complaints regarding lack of privacy and you have every right to ask the pharmacist to step aside for a confidential chat. In return, the pharmacist has the right to recommend and or refuse to sell a medicine for a clinical reason as ultimately it is their responsibility.

Food for thought, thanks

DublinWriter

I'd be interested in knowing if sales of OTC Codeine-containing products have decreased since the introduction of the guidelines.

Kurtosis

DublinWriter wrote: »

I'd be interested in knowing if sales of OTC Codeine-containing products have decreased since the introduction of the guidelines.

It has been reported that Solpadeine sales dropped by 45% for August compared to the same time last year.

Sardonicat

DublinWriter wrote: »

I'd be interested in knowing if sales of OTC Codeine-containing products have decreased since the introduction of the guidelines.

Sorry, I don't have a link.
I recall seeing an article in the indo about 2 weeks ago claiming that some pharmacies have reported a reduction in sales of codeine containing medicines of 45%. Though, it did go on to say that it was unlikely that this reflected a large dependency problem and was likely due to some pharmacies being a little over zealous.

bleg

Sardonicat wrote: »

Sorry, I don't have a link.
I recall seeing an article in the indo about 2 weeks ago claiming that some pharmacies have reported a reduction in sales of codeine containing medicines of 45%. Though, it did go on to say that it was unlikely that this reflected a large dependency problem and was likely due to some pharmacies being a little over zealous.

The 45% decrease would be pretty much spot on with what the drug companies anticipated.

michael2121

i believe they certainly have affected sales as some pharmacists are acting drastically to the new measures. i just had a friend over for dinner who said they wanted to buy a pack just to have handy in case they needed it as they do get migraines from time to time. (yes they have also consulted a doctor who has recommended the tablets). They ended up going to 4 separate pharmacies until they eventually got a 12 pack.

for the percentage of people who get addicted i think it is a bit of an extreme measure. As for it not being OTC in other countries one being america. from my experience they do not need to have a codeine product as vicodin, valium, percocet are like candy there its crazy how easy they are to get. dentists there can prescribe vicodin to patients. So codeine is the least of their worries.

in 2006 - 52 people were addicted to codeine and in 2005 - 42 were. If they followed the guidelines of the medication this would not have happened. When did we have to have our hands held every step of the way in every decision we make. if you abuse any addictive substance you get addicted. The numbers we are talking about are far too low for this drastic measure. As i mentioned before the same is not done for alcohol and cigarettes and they are far more harmful and I believe there are far more people addicted to them. so in reality we should target them first and work our way down that would be the logical approach.

So i plead with the people on this site to realize that this is not some epidemic of addicts and to see if you follow the instructions you will have no issue. lastly to realize the tiny minority of people have ruined a very useful medication for the majority who if left to their own would never have an issue.

DublinWriter

michael2121 wrote: »

lastly to realize the tiny minority of people have ruined a very useful medication for the majority who if left to their own would never have an issue.

A 45% drop in sales surely doesn't represent a 'tiny minority'?

Sardonicat

bleg wrote: »

The 45% decrease would be pretty much spot on with what the drug companies anticipated.

Bleg, I wonder was this anticapted decrease due to the number of people who take it when something else (e.g., plain 'ole Nurofen) would be best indicated, rather than an estimated number of addicts?

bleg

I think this thread has run its course. The debate about codeine containing OTC products has been thrashed out in two threads now.

If you want to complain, do so to the PSI, the pharmacy regulator. Pharmacists can't change the rules they are governed by. Moaning about people doing their jobs isn't helpful.

bleg

Sardonicat wrote: »

Bleg, I wonder was this anticapted decrease due to the number of people who take it when something else (e.g., plain 'ole Nurofen) would be best indicated, rather than an estimated number of addicts?

The rep I was talking to said they were expecting a 50-60% decrease in the sales of Nurofen Plus but that some of the decrease would be somewhat offset by gains in other Nurofen products. Hence the big marketing campaign over the last few months.

username123

KilaWhale wrote: »

I am not an emotional person but I felt like welling up as she looked at me with obvious disdain. I spent five years training to be a pharmacist and do not deserve to be looked upon as a piece of dirt on someone's shoe.

You must be very over sensitive if a random member of the public being smart makes you well up.

KilaWhale wrote: »

.....I am ultimately responsible for the sale and use of any OTC medicines sold under my watch. Thus I aim to provide the best possible care.

If you genuinely feel this way - then why the welling up over some random stranger?

I personally think the whole thing is a bit silly. Ive been told the spiel on a few of occasions now, I even got an interrogation over some medicine that doesnt contain codeine last week - going to the chemist has gone from being a fairly ordinary business transaction to what feels like a mildly squirmy spanish inquisition where I come up with more and more creative ways of describing my pain, in public, and feel slightly 'shameful' as though Im trying to buy heroin. The difference in standards is pretty odd too, in one chemist I observed a fairly strenuous question and answer session over solpha-sinus (of all things, dont even contain codeine), and then in another no questioning whatsover and a 24 pack of solphadeine handed over.

My own take on it is this - go to a local chemist that may be struggling more financially than a branch of a large conglomerate. Far more likely the local chemist wont turn down your business.

Kurtosis

michael2121 wrote: »

i believe they certainly have affected sales as some pharmacists are acting drastically to the new measures. i just had a friend over for dinner who said they wanted to buy a pack just to have handy in case they needed it as they do get migraines from time to time. (yes they have also consulted a doctor who has recommended the tablets). They ended up going to 4 separate pharmacies until they eventually got a 12 pack.

for the percentage of people who get addicted i think it is a bit of an extreme measure. As for it not being OTC in other countries one being america. from my experience they do not need to have a codeine product as vicodin, valium, percocet are like candy there its crazy how easy they are to get. dentists there can prescribe vicodin to patients. So codeine is the least of their worries.

in 2006 - 52 people were addicted to codeine and in 2005 - 42 were. If they followed the guidelines of the medication this would not have happened. When did we have to have our hands held every step of the way in every decision we make. if you abuse any addictive substance you get addicted. The numbers we are talking about are far too low for this drastic measure. As i mentioned before the same is not done for alcohol and cigarettes and they are far more harmful and I believe there are far more people addicted to them. so in reality we should target them first and work our way down that would be the logical approach.

So i plead with the people on this site to realize that this is not some epidemic of addicts and to see if you follow the instructions you will have no issue. lastly to realize the tiny minority of people have ruined a very useful medication for the majority who if left to their own would never have an issue.

Firstly, if your friend's doctor recommended using codeine-containing medicine, you friend could have gotten a prescription or even just a note from the doctor saying the product has been recommended. This would mean your friend would have had no difficulty purchasing the medicine.

Secondly, you are assuming that 1) all people addicted to codeine are aware they have a problem and 2) that all of these people have gotten involved with treatment services to address their addiction. Both are incorrect assumptions. I don't know how many people who have dependence issues with codeine, it's far more than 42 or 52 though.

I think I have to agree with bleg, the exact same discussion keeps recurring in these threads every week or two,