RTE Announce FTA Saorsat service

Elmo

You quoted to figures 1.5m and 150,000 and I doubted that TV3 pay their presenters €100,000 or €10,000 (they might fall somewhere in-between)

Sam Russell wrote: »

It would be simple if Rabbitte ordered the Saorsat to be a copy of Saorview and that be an end to this continuous sniping by McRedmond and his employees against RTE and the injustice of the Broadcasting Act.

The problem is not just TV3 in the independent sector, but also all of the independent radio broadcasters. It can just be about RTÉ. McRedmond and the IBI have lobbied the department for the sound and vision fund and the public have got nothing back in return, instead a wait and see, "sure this digital thing might not take off at all", attitude. McRedmond knows how to snip at RTÉ, if you read the Sunday Business Post last the Sunday before last, he continues to release his letters to the minister to the press........

Sorry, I see what you mean. I concur.

Elmo

Why don't RTÉ take over the running of the deflector systems?

Sam Russell

Elmo wrote: »

You quoted to figures 1.5m and 150,000 and I doubted that TV3 pay their presenters €100,000 or €10,000 (they might fall somewhere in-between)



The problem is not just TV3 in the independent sector, but also all of the independent radio broadcasters. It can just be about RTÉ. McRedmond and the IBI have lobbied the department for the sound and vision fund and the public have got nothing back in return, instead a wait and see, "sure this digital thing might not take off at all", attitude. McRedmond knows how to snip at RTÉ, if you read the Sunday Business Post last the Sunday before last, he continues to release his letters to the minister to the press........

Sorry, I see what you mean. I concur.

I should not make jokes.
I should not make jokes.
I should not make jokes.
I should not make jokes.
I should not make jokes.

.... a hundred times.

I never learn that you have to put a when you make a joke.

I should not make jokes.
I should not make jokes.
I should not make jokes.

Sam Russell

Elmo wrote: »

Why don't RTÉ take over the running of the deflector systems?

Do you mean that they should rebroadcast BBC, ITV and CH4 illeagally?

... or do you mean they should assist in the provision of self-help schemes.

Certainly, RTE NL should come out with a self-help design and assist those communities that want to go down that road and get Saorview rebroadcast locally.

The Cush

The Cush wrote: »

This from a topical issues debate in the Dáil last Wed on the issue of Saorview coverage in the west Cork area once analogue is switched off next Oct - TG4 to be available soon on Saorsat, TV3 has made no decision yet on Saorsat carriage.

From the Saorview website - TG4 added to SAORSAT line-up

We are delighted to announce that TG4 is now available on the satellite infill solution SAORSAT.

For those of you who have already installed SAORSAT, you will need to carry out a rescan on your set top box. This is a straightforward procedure, and the set top boxes instruction booklet will take you through the necessary steps.

http://www.saorview.ie/news/tg4-added-to-saorsat-line-up/

Stinicker

The Cush wrote: »

From the Saorview website - TG4 added to SAORSAT line-up

Great news, it is now almost viable, I couldn't give two hoots normally about TV3 however their GAA coverage during the summer is a must for me and the responsible bodies had better get their act together and make Saorsat a clone of Saorview fast and force TV3 to be a must carry.

Cesium Clock

some screenshots of TG4 on 9 east here..

The Cush

Dáil questions last Tue/Wed on areas not covered by Saorview after ASO and the availability of TV3 and TG4 on Saorsat (doesn't appear anyone told the Dept of Tuesday's press release regarding the launch of TG4 on Saorsat).

Written Answers - Broadcasting Services
Tuesday, 1 May 2012

431. Deputy Michael Healy-Rae asked the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources if those licence payers who now have coverage through repeater stations, which are going to be turned off this autumn on instruction from him at RTE will not be able to avail of the same quality coverage as others. [21221/12]

Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources (Deputy Pat Rabbitte): RTÉ has built, owns and controls the Saorview TV network and is responsible for the roll-out, coverage and operation of that network. This is in accordance with Part 8 of the Broadcasting Act 2009, which provides that the development of the RTÉ network is an operational matter for RTÉ and therefore not one in which I, as Minister, have a function. That said, I have made enquiries of Saorview and can now provide the following information. Section 130 of the Broadcasting Act 2009 Act provides that RTÉ must roll out a national digital TV network to the same extent as its existing analogue network. In this regard, I understand from RTÉ that their analogue network covers 98% of the population and the Saorview network will also provide 98% population coverage.

Work has been ongoing across the country to prepare the transmission sites for the move from analogue to digital terrestrial television. However, it is virtually impossible to cover 100% of the population by terrestrial means. Reasons for this include local topography, for example. RTÉ is conscious of the needs of communities and is making efforts to ensure areas with larger population centres are provided with the Saorview service. To date, RTÉ has committed to improve coverage in the following areas: Glenties, Bandon, Carlingford and Dingle. Coverage improvements in these areas will not be possible until the analogue TV service is switched off.

In addition to Saorview, RTÉ has developed Saorsat, a new free-to-air satellite service unique to Ireland to ensure the RTÉ television services are available to the remaining 2% of the population. Saorsat launched last month - in March 2012. Currently, Saorsat provides access to the RTÉ channels including the new RTÉ channels developed for SAORVIEW. TG4 is expected to be available shortly. TV3 has not yet made a decision. RTÉ is not obliged to provide this satellite service and is doing so on its own initiative. I am informed that with this satellite service, Ireland will have a national TV network covering 100% of the population for the first time.

I have been further informed by RTENL that certain areas serviced by transposers, self-help community systems and repeater stations are not being replaced or upgraded by RTENL. To receive SAORVIEW, homes that currently use these systems will need to readjust their aerials to point to a Saorview transmission site. In a small number of cases some homes may need to use the Saorsat satellite service.

The cost of upgrading to either SAORVIEW or SAORSAT is the once-off cost associated with upgrading TV equipment to digital, for affected cases. SAORVIEW or SAORSAT is free to use for everyone with the correct TV equipment. A SAORSAT installation, including the cost of installing a satellite dish and set top box currently costs €300-€350. A full SAORVIEW installation costs about €200 (for set top box and adjustment or replacement of aerial). As with SAORVIEW equipment costs, it is expected that the cost of SAORSAT equipment will reduce as we approach the 24 October analogue switch off date.

Should the Deputy have further questions about specific areas, I am happy to pass them on to RTÉ on his behalf. Information on coverage is available from the dedicated Saorview websitewww.saorview.ie. Information on Saorsat is available on www.rtenl.ie.

http://debates.oireachtas.ie/dail/2012/05/01/00235.asp#N2

Written Answers - Broadcasting Services
Wednesday, 2 May 2012

15. Deputy Noel Harrington asked the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources when he will permit TV3 and TG4 to be provided in the Saorsat package; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [21707/12]

Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources (Deputy Pat Rabbitte): The SAORSAT satellite service has been developed by RTÉ on its own initiative and is not a requirement under the Broadcasting Act 2009. As such, I, as Minister, have no function in this matter. As the Deputy may be aware the SAORSAT service has been developed by RTÉ to cater for persons who cannot access the new DTT transmission system. As a result, Irish free-to-air channels will be available in 100% of the country for the first time.

The carriage of TG4, TV3 or any other broadcaster on the SAORSAT service is a commercial decision for each of the broadcasters in question and the terms and conditions relating to such carriage would be a matter for commercial negotiation between RTÉ and the relevant broadcaster. I have been informed that TG4 plans to be available on SAORSAT and it is expected that this will happen shortly. It is my understanding that TV3 has not yet made a decision as to its carriage on the service.

http://debates.oireachtas.ie/dail/2012/05/02/00031.asp#N2

Pangea

Couple of Qs I need to ask.

Is saorsat ready now for general public? i.e. can people in rural donegal go ahead and get saorsat in by a installer at this moment in time?

Do people that have a normal sky dish and want to get sky out (and soarsat in) have to get a special saorsat dish or will their normal sky dish suffice?

patwicklow

Why can i not get it through the sky box on the freebis like i can get bbc c4 c5 itv all free why aint rte on that list? just another rip off scam really and one box under the telly is enough and it should come through the sky box that does the same job

The Cush

Pangea wrote: »

Couple of Qs I need to ask.

Is saorsat ready now for general public? i.e. can people in rural donegal go ahead and get saorsat in by a installer at this moment in time?

Do people that have a normal sky dish and want to get sky out (and soarsat in) have to get a special saorsat dish or will their normal sky dish suffice?

This should answer your questions

RTÉNL Saorsat FAQ v1.2 now available - http://www.rtenl.ie/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/RTÉNL-SAORSAT-FAQs-May-2012-Rev-1.2.pdf

givecredit

The Cush wrote: »

This should answer your questions

RTÉNL Saorsat FAQ v1.2 now available - http://www.rtenl.ie/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/RTÉNL-SAORSAT-FAQs-May-2012-Rev-1.2.pdf

The still have not learnt the difference between Saorview and Saorsat in
Rev 1.2

"4. WHAT ARE THE BENEFITS OF SAORVIEW FOR ME?
4.1 What Are The Benefits Of SAORSAT For Me?
4.2 What Services Are On SAORSAT?
4.3 When Will There Be More Services Added To SAORSAT?"

zg3409

The Cush wrote: »

RTÉNL Saorsat FAQ v1.2 now available - http://www.rtenl.ie/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/RTÉNL-SAORSAT-FAQs-May-2012-Rev-1.2.pdf

I decided to check the differences between Rev 1.2 of this document and Rev 1.1
I would lke to say thanks to RTENL for updating it so quickly.

Besides TG4 added to the line up I noticed a mistake, so I am sure the proof readers from RTENL, reading this, will fix it shortly:

From Page 2

4. WHAT ARE THE BENEFITS OF SAORVIEW FOR ME?

should be Saorsat

Besides the typo I also noticed a change besides TG4

RTÉNL anticipate that a SAORSAT Approved iDTV's (television with an integrated SAORSAT tuner/receiver) will be available in late 2012 or early 2013.

has been changed from late 2012 to 2013 to just 2012

So iDTV on the way!!

Cesium Clock

patwicklow wrote: »

Why can i not get it through the sky box on the freebis like i can get bbc c4 c5 itv all free why aint rte on that list? just another rip off scam really and one box under the telly is enough and it should come through the sky box that does the same job

Broadcasting rights and over spill restrict RTE being FTA on 28 east,

the sky box is designed to receive Ku band from 28 east and is designed to work in conjunction with a 'sky card' and subscription and if you have the latter RTE will be included.

you can receive FTA RTE and the FTA UK channels using one HD FTA box and suitable dish set up,

The Cush

patwicklow wrote: »

Why can i not get it through the sky box on the freebis like i can get bbc c4 c5 itv all free why aint rte on that list?

This from RTÉ's Conor Hayes back in mid 2010, the situation remains unchanged

Mr. Conor Hayes: ...
Another innovation by RTE is promotion of its satellite option, Saorsat. Some members of the committee will be familiar with the equivalent UK service, Freesat. The BBC, ITV and a number of other companies have put their services on one of the wideband Astra satellites. The services are broadcast unencrypted, or “in the clear” as we call it. The trouble with those wideband satellites is that they have a very big footprint. If RTE were to be put up on a wideband satellite, its services would be in the clear to the UK, France, Holland and many other countries. One might ask why that should not be done, to which I would respond that we do not have the resources to purchase the rights to enable us to broadcast into those countries. We buy programming that allows us to broadcast to 4.5 million people. We do not have the money to broadcast to 100 million people. Therefore, the option taken by the BBC when Freesat was launched is not available to us.
...
It [Saorsat] will cost us approximately €1.5 million per year. We can manage it. As other channels come on board, part of the cost will be defrayed. In light of the security this option provides and the ability to supply to the 2% of the population who do not currently receive public service television, the cost can be adequately justified. We might have a different take on the situation were the cost €20 million or €25 million, but the actual amount is appropriate and reasonable.

http://debates.oireachtas.ie/MAJ/2010/07/14/00003.asp

Elmo

Sky might start a new product called saorsat from sky!

Apogee

Pangea wrote: »

Couple of Qs I need to ask.

Is saorsat ready now for general public? i.e. can people in rural donegal go ahead and get saorsat in by a installer at this moment in time?

Yes.

Pangea wrote: »

Do people that have a normal sky dish and want to get sky out (and soarsat in) have to get a special saorsat dish or will their normal sky dish suffice?

Your normal Sky dish is still fine for the FTA UK channels, but is too small for dual LNBF Saorsat/Freesat reception. So your options are to either get an additional dish (60cm upwards depending on location) for Saorsat, or replace the Sky dish entirely with a larger dish (80/90cm upwards) for a dual LNBF setup.

Apogee

The Cush wrote: »

This should answer your questions

RTÉNL Saorsat FAQ v1.2 now available - http://www.rtenl.ie/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/RTÉNL-SAORSAT-FAQs-May-2012-Rev-1.2.pdf

Saorsat FAQ wrote:

Important Note For a reliable SAORSAT service, because of its frequency and the different locations of satellites, the SAORSAT Ka LNBF must always be directly on the end of the support arm and pointed directly towards the centre of the dish.

I don't know why they include this note. Frankly, placing the Saorsat LNBF >3 degrees offset and the Astra LNBF <16 degrees offset is a better arrangement than what they advise above.

Saorsat FAQ wrote:

7.9 I Already Have A Satellite Receiver For Another Satellite Service, Will I Need Another Receiver / Set-Top-Box?

Yes you will need a different receiver*. RTÉNL only recommends the use of SAORSAT Approved receivers for SAORSAT.

If you want to receive more than one satellite service talk to your local satellite system installer as there are combination receivers that can receive a number of satellites, including SAORSAT and/or SAORVIEW terrestrial service in the one Set-Top-Box.

* With specialist knowledge, it may be possible to tune some existing receivers to SAORSAT.

A blanket statement of "Yes you will need a different receiver" is misleading too - even with the asterisk.

Why not phrase it along the lines of "RTÉNL strongly advises that you purchase a Saorsat approved receiver. However, in a minority of cases your existing receiver may also be tuned in with specialist knowledge"?

zg3409

Apogee wrote: »

I don't know why they include this note.....Why not phrase it along the lines of ....

You never complained at rev v1.1 so they did not have the opportunity to update it
They do follow this thread.

Apogee

zg3409 wrote: »

You never complained at rev v1.1 so they did not have the opportunity to update it
They do follow this thread.

Both you and I have commented on this before, just in a different thread!

Mr. Rabbit

Elmo wrote: »

Sky might start a new product called saorsat from sky!

Careful now !

The Cush

Latest news from the Saorview website

SAORSAT

SAORSAT SATELLITE LIFTS IRELAND TO UNIVERSAL
PUBLIC BROADCAST ACCESS.

SAORVIEW, the new free to air digital television service, has now been joined by SAORSAT*, a new satellite service provided by RTÉNL. The result is that there is now universal Free-To-Air access across Ireland to public service broadcasting for the first time in the history of the State

In preparation for Ireland’s switch to digital transmission, RTÉNL has fulfilled its requirement to create a digital terrestrial television network which achieves coverage to the same extent achieved by the analogue network. RTÉNL estimates that 97% of the population can currently access SAORVIEW, the new free-to-air digital terrestrial television service, via this network. This will rise to greater than 98% after Analogue Switch Off on 24 October 2012.

Due to the topography of Ireland, some areas have always been impossible to reach via a terrestrial network. The development of the new satellite service called SAORSAT will enable RTÉNL to provide television services to the 1% to 2% of households who cannot be served via a terrestrial network, thus providing universal access to public service television services for the first time in the history of television.

The full list of TV channels available on SAORSAT is: RTÉ One, RTÉ Two HD, RTÉ News Now, RTÉjr, RTÉ One+1 and TG4. The service also includes RTÉ’s main and digital radio services, RTÉ Digital Aertel and an Electronic Programme Guide.

SAORSAT has the added benefit of providing a back up distribution channel for the SAORVIEW service in the event of an emergency or the failure of the digital terrestrial television network. SAORVIEW remains the primary free-to-air digital television service and RTÉNL recommends that households exhaust all options for getting SAORVIEW before reverting to SAORSAT.

“We are delighted to be able to offer such a high quality television service to every home in the State for the first time ever. The availability of a free to air digital television service to all significantly opens up consumer choice. Until now digital television, and all its benefits, was only available to those who were willing to pay a subscription to a commercial operator. Universal access to digital quality television offers all viewers a greatly improved viewing experience. “
Mary Curtis, Director of Digital Switchover

Editors Notes:
* SAORSAT is available on the EUTELSAT KA-SAT 9A. This satellite has a number of individual narrow, or spot, beams of which one is focused on Ireland.

Issued: Thursday 3rd May, 2012.

Contact: Vivienne Flood, Communications Manager SAORVIEW,
Tel: (01) 208 3164/ 087 7447 455 E: Vivienne.flood@rte.ie

http://www.saorview.ie/news/saorsat/

http://www.mayotoday.ie/index.php/browse-mayo-news-by-category/digital-life/item/4645-saorsat-irelands-new-free-to-air-satellite-tv-service-is-launched.html
http://www.digitaltveurope.net/23783/irish-saorsat-tv-services-launches-in-ka-band/

Cesium Clock

“We are delighted to be able to offer such a high quality television service to every home in the State for the first time ever. The availability of a free to air digital television service to all significantly opens up consumer choice. Until now digital television, and all its benefits, was only available to those who were willing to pay a subscription to a commercial operator. Universal access to digital quality television offers all viewers a greatly improved viewing experience. “
Mary Curtis, Director of Digital Switchover

consumer choice and free to air digital television have been available for a long, long, time,

the consumer can watch other country's state owned TV in Europe FTA, and now its amazing that irish TV is FTA on a KA band spot beam on 9 east,

what happened to "Television without Frontiers" (TVWF) Directive


is not a TV licence a subscription, and is not advertising on a state owned TV service 'robbery' on top. ?

watty

You misunderstand "Television without Frontiers" (TVWF) Directive
It's about neither blocking or making it illegal to watch other Countries' TV. Nowhere is there any suggestion that Broadcasters must make their TV available all over Europe.

It's only an accident of Technology that we get FTA UK & German TV.
You can't watch French or Dutch TV even if you can receive it without a FTV card which is in theory (and legally permitted under "Television without Frontiers" (TVWF) Directive) geographically limited.
Many European countries in EU are impossible to receive in Ireland.

There has been ZERO FTA IRISH digital TV till Saorview and Saorsat. No Widescreen RTE/TV3/TG4 without a subscription.

FTA "overspill" TV is legal to receive personally under "Television without Frontiers" (TVWF) Directive but not to re-transmit. It's great we get all the main UK channels by Satellite Overspill and some people get Freeview. But it's irrelevant in the context of Vivienne Flood's press release.

Rick_

No mention of TV 3 or 3E for Saorsat though, or have I missed something?

Elmo

Paddy C wrote: »

No mention of TV 3 or 3E for Saorsat though, or have I missed something?

Up to TV3 if they go on Saorsat.

Rick_

I wasn't disputing that, merely stating that there has been no official word on it, or maybe there had and I had missed it.

Elmo

Paddy C wrote: »

I wasn't disputing that, merely stating that there has been no official word on it, or maybe there had and I had missed it.

The official word on TV3 and 3e is

TV3 has not yet made a decision on carriage of the service. As soon as the decision is made, I will let the House know.

and from TV3

....

bigVee

and from TV3[/QUOTE]

---

Let's be positive. They haven't said no........ yet. Meantime I will rescan just to check in case they might appear.

Elmo

bigVee wrote: »

Let's be positive. They haven't said no........ yet. Meantime I will rescan just to check in case they might appear.

Good PR don't say anything negative, don't write a press release telling people what you won't do, write random press releases that aren't worthwhile but make it look like your are doing something.