RTE Announce FTA Saorsat service

Peter Rhea

The Inverto 'White' lnb has 2 outputs.

Apogee

BuildingInspect wrote: »

pegasuspub wrote: »

triax make a range of splitters with a range of over 2ghz,they have power passing on all ports with diode protection .

Power passing on more than one leg causes a short when more than one set top box is powered up. I tested it already.

No short circuit if the splitter has 'diode protection' as mentioned above.

BuildingInspect

Apogee wrote: »

No short circuit if the splitter has 'diode protection' as mentioned above.

How does the diode protection work. Does it not just stop the voltage from one leg going down the other? Can you mix two separate 12v power supplies like that? How does the LNB know which supply use?

Peter Rhea

Would you have to give the lnb its own independent power supply & block the DC from the receivers, since there's no multiswitch in the system to regulate the voltage going to the lnb (or maybe some other kind of regulator is available)?

zg3409

available from here:
http://www.xxion.co.uk/tv-and-aerials/antiference-fs204-low-loss-2-way-tv-aerial-cable-or-satellite-splitter-dc-pass-5-2250-mhz-/prod_115.html

The above splitter will work. If you want to operate 4 receivers then get two of these. Connect the in from each unit to one of the outputs of the Saorsat LNB.

The splitters with a red arrow is what you need. These contain the diodes. No need for an amplifier. This way you get a strong signal to all receivers.

I would not recommend using a 12V power supply. The LNB needs 13V. Make sure every box is set to vertical polarisation.

By the way any satellite finder will work with Saorsat even if it does not say KA etc. Just put it inline and if it has the option set to vertical (13V), or set the receiver to vertical.

BuildingInspect

Peter Rhea wrote: »

Would you have to give the lnb its own independent power supply & block the DC from the receivers, since there's no multiswitch in the system to regulate the voltage going to the lnb (or maybe some other kind of regulator is available)?

That's what I thought, the power supply has got to be independent. If you use multiple receivers, how do you determine which receiver is powering the LNB and how would you ensure the LNB supply remained at 13v and vertical if the receiver/s were on a horizontal channel.

BuildingInspect

zg3409 wrote: »

[img]https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/attachments/7105/198561.jpg The splitters with a red arrow is what you need. These contain the diodes. No need for an amplifier. This way you get a strong signal to all receivers. I would not recommend using a 12V power supply. The LNB needs 13V. Make sure every box is set to vertical polarisation. By the way any satellite finder will work with Saorsat even if it does not say KA etc. Just put it inline and if it has the option set to vertical (13V), or set the receiver to vertical.[/img]

How do the diodes work? What do the do? ( I know what a diode is)

I can't keep every box on a vertical channel at 13v, I need to use this in a multi combo box install.So obviously some box might be purporting 18v and some might output 13v. If I use this splitter with even two boxes, which one will power the LNB?

Peter Rhea

Why are you using Saorsat with combo boxes? Are you in the north & getting the UK channels from a terrestrial source?

The receivers won't be changing band or polarity unless there's a feed from a KU band satellite. How is this integrated?

Peter Rhea

zg3409 wrote: »

The above splitter will work. If you want to operate 4 receivers then get two of these. Connect the in from each unit to one of the outputs of the Saorsat LNB.

What kind of voltage comes from the input when 2 receivers are sending 13V to the outputs?

Can it only pass power from 1 output at a time?

BuildingInspect

Peter Rhea wrote: »

Why are you using Saorsat with combo boxes? Are you in the north & getting the UK channels from a terrestrial source?

The receivers won't be changing band or polarity unless there's a feed from a KU band satellite. How is this integrated?

I'm using FTA receivers with two dishes,one at 28 and one at 9. This is the only option in areas that have no terrestrial signal, and the set up is considerably cheaper than a sat/terr combo.

So, each receiver needs a feed from each satellite. I have a diseque switch between each STB and the LNBs. The Astra LNB is a quad and the channel selected determines the LNB voltage. It's when I split the Saorsat LNB that the trouble begins. I think first off I definitely need an independent PSU. But I've tried this as per my first post and had no luck.

Mr. Rabbit

zg3409 wrote: »

available from here:
http://www.xxion.co.uk/tv-and-aerials/antiference-fs204-low-loss-2-way-tv-aerial-cable-or-satellite-splitter-dc-pass-5-2250-mhz-/prod_115.html

The above splitter will work. If you want to operate 4 receivers then get two of these. Connect the in from each unit to one of the outputs of the Saorsat LNB.

The splitters with a red arrow is what you need. These contain the diodes. No need for an amplifier. This way you get a strong signal to all receivers.

I would not recommend using a 12V power supply. The LNB needs 13V. Make sure every box is set to vertical polarisation.

By the way any satellite finder will work with Saorsat even if it does not say KA etc. Just put it inline and if it has the option set to vertical (13V), or set the receiver to vertical.

Here's another point.

How would a PVR work with one of these, say the Humax PVRs ?

I assume one of these would be fine for one PVR ?

Peter Rhea

The Saorsat lnb & its cables & splitters won't see any of the band & polarity switching as the DiSEqC switches will be switched to the 28E input.

'Combo' box is generally understood (here anyway) as a satellite/terrestrial combination.

BuildingInspect

Peter Rhea wrote: »

The Saorsat lnb & its cables & splitters won't see any of the band & polarity switching as the DiSEqC switches will be switched to the 28E input.

'Combo' box is generally understood (here anyway) as a satellite/terrestrial combination.

The STB looks at dish one or two as determined by the diseqc switch, no issue here. Astra channels thru the switch with polarity determined by the STB, with the Saorsat polarity remaining constant with the external PSU.

Peter Rhea

When the receiver is switched to the Saorsat port of the diseqc switch, it will be sending a constant voltage anyway. There are no other transponders.

BuildingInspect

Peter Rhea wrote: »

When the receiver is switched to the Saorsat port of the diseqc switch, it will be sending a constant voltage anyway. There are no other transponders.

I know there are no other transponders and the voltage will be constant. But if I don't use an external PSU the Sarorsat LNB will be powered by one of the receivers, which of course would not work if that receiver was on a horizontal transponder.

Peter Rhea

The Saorsat lnb will only be powered when a receiver is switched to the Saorsat channels. It won't have any dealings with receivers on other tps.

BuildingInspect

Just to refresh.......


I need 4 Saorsat feeds for a Saorsat/ Astra28 install. I'm using a quad fir the Astra and need 4 feeds from the Saorsat LNB.

I think it's a given that the Saorsat LNB MUST be powered independently of the STBs to ensure it remains at 13volts.

I have set this up using a 12volt PSU and it worked fine for an hour or more and then appeared to loose signal. Is the 12 volts an issue here? Should the Saorsat signal be amplified?

Has anyone else tried this?

BuildingInspect

Peter Rhea wrote: »

The Saorsat lnb will only be powered when a receiver is switched to the Saorsat channels. It won't have any dealings with receivers on other tps.

Correct and right! But how do you connect the PSU from the LNB output of four receivers to one LNB and ensure each receiver is providing power to the LNB? I don't see how it can be done without an external PSU.

Ronnie Raygun

Peter Rhea wrote: »

What kind of voltage comes from the input when 2 receivers are sending 13V to the outputs?

13 Volts if I'm not mistaken.

Can it only pass power from 1 output at a time?

I think if there are different voltages on the outputs, the higher will pass (in effect anyway). I could be wrong.

Ronnie Raygun

BuildingInspect wrote: »

how do you connect the PSU from the LNB output of four receivers to one LNB

The way ZG said to do it.

BuildingInspect

Ronnie Raygun wrote: »

The way ZG said to do it.

Ok, so if I connect two receivers to the splitter show in ZGs post and I select a Saorsat channel, which of the receivers is powering the LNB? You cant just mix two separate power supplies like that. I tried that and I got an LNB short, which you would expect considering the voltage can pass to both legs. Am I missing something here?

Ronnie Raygun

You must be using the wrong kind of splitter.

Peter Rhea

Ronnie Raygun wrote: »

13 Volts if I'm not mistaken.

Think I get it now, the diode won't pass current if both ends are at the same voltage.

el pasco

zg3409 wrote: »

http://www.powercity.ie/?par=10-24-WP75HD&pages=1&prod=WP75HD&brands=WALKER&image=

Model : WP75SAT-HD
Specifications
Walker Free To Air Satellite Box
Hd Digital Satellite Receiver
No Subscription Or Monthly Bills
Perfect For Ex-sky Subscribers
Bbc1 -bbc2- Bbc3- Bbc4
Itv1 -itv2 -itv3 -itv4
5- Bbc Hd- Itv Hd- Ch4 Hd
Hdmi Digital Tv Connection
7 Day On Screen Program Guide
Usb Recorder And Player
Hi-fi Stereo Sound
On Screen Display
Signal Level & Quality Indicator
Infra Red Remote Control
Ready For Rte Satellite (SaorSAT)
Rte Now Broadcasting Kasat 9e
Installation Service Available
Requires Ka Lnb

and there is one advertised on eBay:
http://www.ebay.ie/itm/Walker-HD-DVB-S2-Satellite-Receiver-FTA-Saorsat-Compatible-USB-PVR-7-Day-EPG-/190645548048?pt=UK_ConEle_SatCableFreeview_RL&hash=item2c635c3410

WP75SAT-HD

This receiver can be used to receive both Saorsat (Ka Sat 9E) & SatFree (Astra 28.2) simultaneously.
Saorsat requires a Ka band LNB and Astra uses a standard Universal LNB.
Both can be mounted on the same dish eg. Triax TD78 with LNB multiholder.
ie. >100 channels including RTE, BBC, ITV, CHANNEL 4, News, Film, Kids, Music etc & HD channels.
It also features 7-Day programme guide for both Saorsat and SatFree channels.

Features:
HD Satellite Receiver DVB-S2
5000 Program Memory
USB 2.0 Multimedia Connector & Recording
Video :AVI, MP4, XviD/3ivx, MJPEG, MS ISO, MPEG2-TS, H264-TS, MPEG-4 SP, MPEG-4 ASP, MPEG2, MPEG1 - Audio/Photo : MP3, JPEG Baseline, Progressive
HDMI 1080i
7 Day On Screen Program Guide for Saorsat & Sat4Free
Signal Level & Quality Indicator
Remote Control, Batteries & HD Lead Included
UniCable, DiSEqC 1.0, 1.2 enabled for multiple LNB systems
Scart Socket - S/PDIF Optical Digital Audio
F-Socket LNB Input
HDMI 1.3a up to 1080i
Ethernet RJ45
USB 2.0 (Rear)

Does this box work with digital teletext? Don't see MHEG5 listed?

STB

Ronnie Raygun wrote: »

You must be using the wrong kind of splitter.

As I understand it you use a Diode Steered Splitter.

All receivers carry the signal from the LNB, according to the highest receiver voltage. The diode control makes sure that way the higher voltage will not be fed back to other receiver when not being used.

zg3409

BuildingInspect wrote: »

How do the diodes work? What do the do? ( I know what a diode is)

A diode allows power to flow one way and not the other. This will stop the LNB fault from showing. It also only lets whichever box has the higher voltage power the LNB. Thus if one box is off the LNB will get power from which ever box is on. Think of it like a one way valve for water. It only allows the water (electricity) to flow in one direction.

BuildingInspect wrote: »

I can't keep every box on a vertical channel at 13v, I need to use this in a multi combo box install.So obviously some box might be purporting 18v and some might output 13v. If I use this splitter with even two boxes, which one will power the LNB?

Yes you can. Put the two port diseqc switch nearest the receiver. Then connect port 1 of the diseqc switch to the 28.2 LNB. Connect the other side of the diseqc switch to the splitter with the red lines with the arrows. These contain diodes.

The setup you need is

LNB1 28.2 Diseqc Port 1
LNB2 9 Diseqc Port 2

If you have set up all boxes correctly then when ANY box wants to watch Saorsat, it will first select port two of the switch and it will then send the vertical signal (13V) which selects the correct settings for the LNB to give Saorsat back to the receiver.

For 28.2 it should alway select port 1 so it would then send no power towards the Saorsat LNB. Consider a Diseqc switch like a switch switching train tracks. The power can either be switch to port 1 or 2. Once it is switched to one, the other track sees no trains (power)

If you have more than 4 receivers then I would recommend a 8 X N multiswitch where N is the number of receivers you need. I have a similar setup with 6 receivers which works fine.

Trust me if you get the correct splitters with the arrows (two needed) and 4 (2 port) Diseqc switches (one per receiver) it will work.

As I said every box needs to be programmed correctly as if one box decides to look for LNB2 and chooses horizontal (which it should never need to do) it will mess up the other box sharing the same lead.

There will probably never be quad nor quattro LNBs available for Saorsat as there is no need for them.

I did say people would be looking for wiring diagrams for Saorsat. No one has taken the time to draw anything yet.

Start with a simple two box setup, then repeat for the other two boxes.

zg3409

BuildingInspect wrote: »

That's what I thought, the power supply has got to be independent. If you use multiple receivers, how do you determine which receiver is powering the LNB and how would you ensure the LNB supply remained at 13v and vertical if the receiver/s were on a horizontal channel.

All Saorsat's channels are vertical, every single one, and any new ones will all be vertical too.

zg3409

Peter Rhea wrote: »

What kind of voltage comes from the input when 2 receivers are sending 13V to the outputs?

Can it only pass power from 1 output at a time?

It only allows the highest to pass. If every box is outputting 13V then whichever box is slightly highest say 13.05V then it will power the LNB. This will work OK. No special PSU nor amps needed.

zg3409

Mr. Rabbit wrote: »

Here's another point.

How would a PVR work with one of these, say the Humax PVRs ?

I assume one of these would be fine for one PVR ?

Yes. These will work fine with a PVR, Saorsat is just considered another transponder that happens to be on a different LNB. When you select a Saorsat channel, the diseqc switch selects the appropriate LNB.

I am not sure exactly how the TV guide/series link etc will work, but it should be no problem to run 4 receivers or two PVRs without the need for a Multiswitch. As watty has said a multiswitch is a better option for 5 or more tuners, but they can be very expensive, compared to diseqc switches and off the shelf splitters.

zg3409

BuildingInspect wrote: »

Just to refresh.......
I need 4 Saorsat feeds for a Saorsat/ Astra28 install. I'm using a quad for the Astra and need 4 feeds from the Saorsat LNB.

I think it's a given that the Saorsat LNB MUST be powered independently of the STBs to ensure it remains at 13volts.

No need for a seperate power supply

BuildingInspect wrote: »

Just to refresh.......
I have set this up using a 12volt PSU and it worked fine for an hour or more and then appeared to loose signal. Is the 12 volts an issue here?

The LNB uses the voltage for two things. One to power itself. It is expecting a minimum of 13V at whatever current is on the label. 12V is not 13V. It is also using this voltage to decide if the receiver would like the horizontal channels or the vertical channels. So it is measuring the voltage. So for example 12.5V to 14.5V =Vertical and 16.5 to 19V is horizontal. If you give it a voltage it does not expect, then it may do unexpected things.

BuildingInspect wrote: »

Should the Saorsat signal be amplified?

No. There is no need to amplify it. If you are using 4 receivers I would recommend using both connectors on the Saorsat LNB, with two receivers hanging off each connection. This will double the signal to each box instead of using one port and a 4 way splitter.

BuildingInspect wrote: »

Has anyone else tried this?

I have all the bits to do this but I am using a multiswitch at home. I have used all sorts of splitters, broken them open and I understand the difference between one type an another. Be warned some sites/suppliers show one type on their site but ship a different type. MAKE SURE IT HAS TWO ARROWS.

I will probably be making a single receiver, single two port diseqc, setup for use when testing away from home. I use a diode splitter all the time when I feed my receiver and spectrum analyser.

You might be able to get one in your local powercity:
http://www.powercity.ie/?par=30-70-F2WAY&brands=FLEMMING

Also someone suggested triax may also sell a suitable unit.