RTE Announce FTA Saorsat service

watty

Their low key announcement is press releases to trade journals?

watty

Actually I've lost faith in Saorview/RTE Information campaign and their Strategy for Information, Retailers and Installers.
http://www.saortv.info/2012/03/13/rtes-low-profile-saorsat-announcement/

Apogee

bigVee wrote: »

Excellent. Hopefully they will also know an increase in power would be a big help in the north east in areas where apart from Saorsat the only solution for RTE would be via a Sky subscription. Not many will opt for a 100 cm dish for FTA. I hope the 7db increase upon completion of tests is still proposed.

The 100cm recommendation is extremely conservative based on current reception reports - 80cm should more than sufficient, barring a further decrease in signal levels or change in FEC.

A future 7dB increase in signal seems rather unlikely to me.

Apogee

RT&#201 wrote: »

...additionally the KA-SAT solution carries the benefit of providing full national back-up cover in the event of an emergency or a catastrophic failure of the terrestrial network.

How can they claim to provide 'full national back-up cover' if TG4 and TV3/3e are absent??

zg3409

I presume the map RTENL produced is BASED on the actual power level and FEC they intend to use, which may be different than the tests taking place up to now.

We should assume recommended dish sizes are as given. You could always chance a smaller dish but it may dropout more often than you would like, which is not ideal for a charged install.



Above is probably a clearer version of what size dish is recommended. Top right and bottom left 1 metre. Everywhere else 80cm.

My sums say a 1 metre would be fine with 28.2 offset by 20 degrees, but an 80cm would not, however Eutelsat may know better.

Apogee

zg3409 wrote: »

I presume the map RTENL produced is BASED on the actual power level and FEC they intend to use, which may be different than the tests taking place up to now.

Alt. they may be drawing up a map with the primary intention of keeping copyright holders happy!

Is there any mention when this thing is officially live and when we can be sure what the final EIRP levels and FEC will be?

Though I would have thought to make any changes at this late stage - either an increase or decrease - defeats the whole point of having months of engineering tests prior to launch. Especially as we have already seen a reasonably substantial decrease already.

watty

"March" apparently.

Only BAI /licence conditions/Government re-write can force TV channels to use Saorsat or national Radio stations to use Saorview and Saorsat. The Government is remiss on this. It's likely though that Oireachtas & TG4 will join Saorsat eventually, don't hold your breath for TV3 & 3E without legislation.

Once the service goeslive I maybe can test in Islandmagee or Whitehead and in Tralee as well as Limerick with the same dish/LNBF/Meter.

Apogee

watty wrote: »

"March" apparently.

Only BAI /licence conditions/Government re-write can force TV channels to use Saorsat or national Radio stations to use Saorview and Saorsat.

I think people should lobby hard to have this change implemented particularly in the case of TV3. If TV3 want access to more of the licence fee/broadcasting charge, then as quid pro quo they should be available to all of the populace who are funding the fee/charge.


Just to add to above: If Setanta are obliged to provide free-to-view type cards for programmes funded by the Sound and Vision Scheme, then surely TV3 and TG4 should be obliged to provide same in areas where there is no Saorview reception?

Setanta FAQ wrote:

"How can I watch programming which is funded under the Broadcasting Authority of Ireland Sound & Vision Scheme
Setanta Sports supports programming that is funded under the Broadcasting Authority of Ireland Sound & Vision Scheme and broadcasts this programming on a free to view basis such that it may be enjoyed by anybody with satellite equipment and viewing card regardless of whether they are subscribers to the Setanta Sports Pack. If you have a satellite set top box, but do not have a satellite viewing card, we will upon request send you free of charge a satellite viewing card to an address in the Republic of Ireland in order that you can enjoy the Sound & Vision Scheme funded programming."

Alt. they could meet the obligation by joining the Saorsat service!

Mr. Rabbit

Gerry Wicklow wrote: »

Using just the mark 1 eyeball, I can't see any noticeable difference.

I've always felt that the picture quality on Sky is a bit soft compared to the equivalent services on Freeview e,g. BBC1, BBC2, UTV, Channel 4 etc.

I also still feel 8K mode on Freeview is far sharper and clearer than 2K mode.

It could be down to different boxes, but that's my perception.

I'll know for sure about the 8K/2k comparison on the 24th October when the NI transmitters all switch to 8K.

Hopefully, I'll also be able to compare RTE on Saorview with the Sky service by then.

Elmo

Apogee wrote: »

Alt. they could meet the obligation by joining the Saorsat service!

The sound and vision fund should only be available to broadcasters available on a FTA terrestrial basis.

TV3 didn't even want the extra 10%+ they get from Saorview.

watty

Setanta shouldn't get a cent of Sound & Vision while they are essentially a Pay TV channel and available only to people that subscribe now or in the past.

The FTV card for only a Sky box in no way meets any sensible concept of Licence payer funded programming.

Only entirely FTA channels that are on Terrestrial should get the funding.

STB

Good question Apogee.

It all goes back to that licence that TV3 currently hold. They don't have the same percentage service requirements that RTE have on analogue.

The Broadcasting Act actually sets down 90% as the achievement for the digital mux. RTE's commitments have extending beyond that ensuring near universal coverage terrestrially, this of course ensures that those carried on the mux(es) would have the same.

Outside of that RTE will have estimated costs of €1.5m pa for Saorsat to fill in the gaps.

Of course the last part of section 130 of the Broadcasting Act 2009 I think is the key as regards get out clauses,

RTE shall.

(i) ensure that the national television multiplex referred to in paragraph (a) is established as a matter of priority, and—

(I) on such date as may be specified by the Minister by order, is operational and available free-to-air to approximately 90 per cent of the population, and


(II) by 31 December 2011, or such later date as may be specified by the Minister by order, is operational, available free-to-air and capable of providing coverage to the same extent as is, on the passing of this Act, available by free-to-air analogue means.

State emergencies! God help those who depend on Tv3 for emergency announcements which are currently served by analogue.

Put simply Tv3 I would imagine wont want any additional costs terrestrially or via satellite (they already owe €81m to Anglo Irish bank the taxpayers which has been conveniently parked with no payments due until its sold - despite the fact that its owned by a very large private equity firm). They have already been up in arms over the pro rata basis for tx costs terrestrially. I dont think satellite costs in the interests of universal coverage will be a priority for them. The difference might be as simple as the difference between PSB ideals and commercial ideals.

Its a lost opportunity for them to make money during an emergency to push some cheap Hotel Giveaway using a premium rate phone line in my opinion

user1842

Hi,

Would a satellite flat panel antenna work with SAORSAT?

This has been brought up before but has anyone tried to get one to work and if so can they recommend one/type?

Thanks,

watty

Short answer

No Chance!


Longer Answer
It will only work in a perfectly clear sky.


The Satellite can in theory produce a strong enough signal, but that dish is only 44cm. RTE NL are using lower power. They claim 80cm is needed.

It's only got a quarter of the gain needed, so the signal will be lost in fog, rain, snow and high altitude ice or heavy overcast.

lawhec

Mr. Rabbit wrote: »

I've always felt that the picture quality on Sky is a bit soft compared to the equivalent services on Freeview e,g. BBC1, BBC2, UTV, Channel 4 etc.

BBC1, BBC2, UTV, Channel 4 and Channel 5 are mandated by OFCOM on DTT to broadcast their SD service with a D1 resolution (720/704x576 pixels). No such rule is in place for satellite, all the ITV stations AFAIK are 544x576. Not sure about the rest of them.

detective

No Paddys Day Launch?!?

watty

They did a quiet announcement on the 13th to Technical Media. They did previously say it would be "low key".

Perhaps a trickle more on www.saorview.ie on Tues 20th March 2012

darth_maul

Has any announcement been made on TG4`s availability on saorsat, there is a few total Saorview deadzones in the area I cover but it being a Gaeltacht area the lack of TG4 would make it a very hard sell.

The Cush

darth_maul wrote: »

Has any announcement been made on TG4`s availability on saorsat, there is a few total Saorview deadzones in the area I cover but it being a Gaeltacht area the lack of TG4 would make it a very hard sell.

No official announcement regarding TG4 on Saorsat, only the RTÉ channels have been announced.

Maybe an email to TG4 asking them if they plan to launch on Saorsat.

watty

I expect that TG4 hasn't got a policy yet.

BuildingInspect

Has anyone successfully split Saorsat signal?

I fitted a universal LNB to and 80cm dish and aligned the dish on 9E. (my meter cannot read Ka band). Once lined, i replaced the universal LNB with Ka band.I connected a FTA receiver and tuned in Saorsat channels. No problem there.

Looking to run four separate FTA boxes I went about splitting the Saorsat signal. I first tried a two way f- type splitter. Split worked fine, but I soon realized that no signal was present if the receiver connected to the powered leg of the splitter was powered off. I then tried a two way splitter with power passing on both legs. LNB short appeared once both receivers were powered up, kind of expected that.

I then got a four way splitter and connected a 12v 500mA PSU to the powered leg. Bingo, three Saorsat outputs. Worked well for ofer an hour until signal disappeared. Removed splitter and signal was present when connected directly to LNB. So I assumed the signal needed to be amplified. I connected the four way splitter again and this time inserted a line amp (20dB) Hey presto, worked fine............for an hour. HELP!

Is there an issue here with the frequency being just outside the range of the amp and the splitters?

Why does it work for a while and then just stop?

BuildingInspect

BuildingInspect wrote: »

Has anyone successfully split Saorsat signal?

I fitted a universal LNB to and 80cm dish and aligned the dish on 9E. (my meter cannot read Ka band). Once lined, i replaced the universal LNB with Ka band.I connected a FTA receiver and tuned in Saorsat channels. No problem there.

Looking to run four separate FTA boxes I went about splitting the Saorsat signal. I first tried a two way f- type splitter. Split worked fine, but I soon realized that no signal was present if the receiver connected to the powered leg of the splitter was powered off. I then tried a two way splitter with power passing on both legs. LNB short appeared once both receivers were powered up, kind of expected that.

I then got a four way splitter and connected a 12v 500mA PSU to the powered leg. Bingo, three Saorsat outputs. Worked well for ofer an hour until signal disappeared. Removed splitter and signal was present when connected directly to LNB. So I assumed the signal needed to be amplified. I connected the four way splitter again and this time inserted a line amp (20dB) Hey presto, worked fine............for an hour. HELP!

Is there an issue here with the frequency being just outside the range of the amp and the splitters?

Why does it work for a while and then just stop?

The frequency wouldn't be an issue, as the LNB downconverts it to the same IF as any other satellite signal.

Could it be the voltage of the PSU? Usually LNBs need 13V or 18V depending on polarity.

BuildingInspect

I think the transponder is vertical and therefore 13 volts, so my 12 volts should be ok there I would have thought. I did run into an issue with the rating of the PSU, previously I had a 100mA connected, but it would not run both the LNB and the line amp. The receiver PSU is 500mA so I figure I'm ok there too.

watty

TV splitters are very very poor for Satellite IF.
(5 to 880MHz vs 950 to 2200MHz)
You need a Satellite distribution type splitter intended to split Quattro feeds for multiple multiswitches.

You can split / amplify / split a Quattro to drive about 128 x 16 way Multistwitches fairly easily. Saorsat signal is just the same.

pegasuspub

triax make a range of splitters with a range of over 2ghz,they have power passing on all ports with diode protection .

BuildingInspect

I'm using 5-2300 MHz splitter, do you think this is not suitable?

pegasuspub

should be ok,do you have a model no?

BuildingInspect

Inputs: 1
Outputs: 2
Connections: F type
Range: 5-2300MHz
Bands:  FM / UHF / VHF / Satellite
Power passing: 1 leg
Model #: proSPL204P
Loss: 4dB

BuildingInspect

pegasuspub wrote: »

triax make a range of splitters with a range of over 2ghz,they have power passing on all ports with diode protection .

Power passing on more than one leg causes a short when more than one set top box is powered up. I tested it already.

Mr. Rabbit

Has anyone successfully split Saorsat signal?

Is there such a thing as a dual, quad, or octo Ka band LNB ?