Bang Kill rule

Puding

still would not shot at someone head , and then take pleasure and enjoyment from it ( going by the description about the guy not seeing him i would imagine he was to the side so the shield was not an issue ) but im sorry i;ve keep seeing comments like this again and again and personally find it rather disturbing

i find it funny that when ever this topic comes up people seem to see it as a sign of weakness to accept and use a surrender kill, i can accept the argument of not agreeing with it as people take advantage of the rule to gain an advantage, but that is not an issue with the rules but people use of them

im sorry if this is not the in thing to say but, airsoft can hurt 'i don;t care with all this 'grrrr arrrr im a man and can take it' i do not play airsoft be in pain, its why i do not just wear a t-shirt stuff like that, i got feed up with paintball always coming back black and blue and overly aggressive play, i came over to airsoft for the difference in attitude toward play

for a game basic on honor it seems awfully hard for some people to offer even a small amount of courtesy to your opposition

not a popular thing to say but there are people in this sport/hobbie that just want to shot people and have no interest in objectives or team play, they get satisfaction from hitting hands or heads ( i've even meet one very disturbed individual who took great pleasure in screaming head shot each time ) and stuff along those lines, the attitude is normally that of people in fps who spawn camp for example or exploit bugs

Blazer

That's the problem with any game..you'll always have people going overboard and all gung-ho.
I'd love to see what snakedoc would say if the shoe was on the other foot..don't think he'd be laughing then.

Leftyflip

SNAKEDOC wrote: »

the bang kill rule simply does not work. just yesterday in the office block i could have offered it to a noob with the shield who was advancing into a room unfortunatly for him he didn't see me on a chair proped up on the wall. he let this sream when i popped two in the crown of his head at about five feet. i nearly fell of the chair:D:D:D. ahhhhh good times!!

I'm sorry that's just sheer ignorance, to state it doesn't work and then take pride in hurting a new player.

jeawan

Leftyflip wrote: »

I'm sorry that's just sheer ignorance, to state it doesn't work and then take pride in hurting a new player.

Completely agree on that it is a honour game taking pleasure in shooting a "noob" as you call him is just ignorant and completely childish.

Sod'o swords

Leftyflip wrote: »

I'm sorry that's just sheer ignorance, to state it doesn't work and then take pride in hurting a new player.

...but if we take pride in hurting you it's ok? :P

I've noticed Overkill has become, well, I see it as a huge problem. Everyone's glued to full auto even at silly close ranges. I always tell them i'm dead the same at the first shot as i was on the 7th. Manys a time it's piss me off so i much i had to leave the game for a sit down. It's just unnecessary and causes argo.

Also head shots, this annoys me to no end. I know i've probably said it several times before here, but i'm 6' 3" and stillllllll get shot in the head, while standing, in the open. When ever you spook someone in reaction they aim for your head, why!? It seems to be hardwired into people to go for the head...

Blazer

yep...it's called call of duty syndrome

Inari

No, it's not Call of Duty Syndrome. It's where people have an ego of a size that could plug the grand canyon, and believe that they are the most awesome things alive, therefore they can do whatever they want; point blank headshots, survive being shot countless times, and of course shoot someone with "a rifle shot at 1000 yards in high wind" (- Mr. Martin Riggs). It is not the movies, nor the games that cause this...in fact they probably do the same things in those games as well. It's the people.

Airsoft works on the honour system...I think that it should be emphasised to a much greater degree. To the point where people are guided to playing honourably because they feel insulted if they do anything else. One thing that people are most protective of tends to be their name (i.e. reputation and dignity), and it could be used to good effect. Discouraging through dishonour.

SniperSight

In my last game at LAC I offered a kid a bang kill. I was hiding up a tree and he came to the foot of it unaware of me. I calmly said Bang, he stuck up his rifle and free hand and accepted it, no arguement. As we were walking back he turned to me and thanked me for not shooting him unnecessarily.
I believe this is how it should be.
I could have easily shot him in the head, or fired off my 203 which I was dying to use but what would that have accomplished for my own image or that kids view of myself and the sport.
The Bang-Kill or Knife-Kill never has to be a set down rule, but I think it should be there as an option and courtesy which people are made aware of.
I whole-heartedly disagree with the use of what should be an honourable act as a method to gain an unfair advantage(eg. using dry or broken guns for bang-kills/long distance bang-kills etc.)
Over in LAC I'm always heartened by how a bang-kill seems something to be lauded, an accomplishment. All the times I've been there I've not once seen it cause an arguement or used dishonestly. They are always talked about in good spirits.

Going back to the original point of the post, I dont think a player armed with only a bolt-action rifle should perform multiple bang-kills in a time frame that would be unrealistic with regards reloading. ie. 3 players in 5 secs etc. In the case quoted I believe its ok, as Scarecrow, you had a sidearm in your hand, which obviously your capable of firing quickly at multiple opponents.

My 10 cents( 2 cents aint worth as much as it used to be:rolleyes:)

Gatling

wasnt going to post on this ,having read back on whats been posted im both amazed and annoyed on peoples idea of airsoft rules ,

5ft probably less seeing most dont know 10ft from 6in's

headshots are discouraged at times there's no option part of the game but opening up on the crown of somebody head then boasting about it is disgraceful and disrespectful ,shot from 5ft dosent do any harm ,well thats not true ive have some ejit open full auto into my crown and still have the resulting scars from several bb strikes at point blank range ,

Bang kills with non working aegs or pistols ,if you cant shoot then you cant have the shot

as for sending a man into a room to be shot so he can and tell his mates how many players in the room "Dead men dont SPEAK"

Airsoft is a simple game with simple rules

its not about hurting players or leaving people fearing they will be injured by others ,
if you think thats the idea behind airsoft well then maybe you should go back to xbox live or what ever fantasy land you live in

Gray

SNAKEDOC wrote: »

the bang kill rule simply does not work. just yesterday in the office block i could have offered it to a noob with the shield who was advancing into a room unfortunatly for him he didn't see me on a chair proped up on the wall. he let this sream when i popped two in the crown of his head at about five feet. i nearly fell of the chair:D:D:D. ahhhhh good times!!

Since you decided not to offer a bang kill this says more about you rather than whether or not bang kills work

TheDoc

Already being covered above, but I agree with Sodo, it is blatantly clear in how this type of overkill and pleasure coming from inflicting pain is an increasing thing on sites.

Why is it every year this game just gets a surge in problem dynamics within the game?

When are we going to finally read that there is a massive surge in players shaking hands after a game?
When will I see a surge in players being decent and mature, and in conflicting circumstances just both take a hit or both draw back a distance?

It seems every surge is negetive which is pretty horrible to look on at.

The enjoyment is that you fired your gun and someone called hit from it, from any distance. You pulled the trigger you registered a kill. It has absolutely nothing to do with how " much it hurt" the opposition.

I don't think it has anything to do with a call of duty syndrome etc, I genuinely hate that phrase, cause I played that game to death as do many here, except they display extremely high values and courtesy on the airsoft field.

The description your looking for is one of the following

Dirty nackers
Insecure weirdos
Window lickers
Keyboard hard men

Inari makes a solid point that I think alot have said for so long. The whole point of an honour system is if you break that system you should feel ashamed, should feel embarassed.

I cant believe how so many people act the bollox on the field/site, and then come back again. If I was blatantly cheating or a rage head behind the trigger I'd have a hard time showing my face. But then again it must be a different mindset. And if someone does the above or is a consistent rule breaker or bad sport and continues to come down on site,

meh what does that say about our sport : /


I hope the lad above who said about shooting a lad 5 feet away in the head and found it hilarious, I hope he takes something from this thread I really do. Cause it is only a matter of time , if he keeps doing that, that he does it to someone who literally has no temper and boxes the chops of him.

Sometimes I feel with some of the people that play this game and some of the new people that join, players should be put through an educational/briefing course before being allowed touch an AEG on site...(Oz get crackin) :P

sliabh

TheDoc wrote: »

When are we going to finally read that there is a massive surge in players shaking hands after a game?
When will I see a surge in players being decent and mature, and in conflicting circumstances just both take a hit or both draw back a distance?
:P

I always try and make a point of complimenting my opposition when I am playing at the end of a game or day, especially if/when there has been some tension.

If you treat other players with respect and a bit of honour they will repay the favour. And the ones that have (and deserve) neither will stand out a lot more, making it easier to avoid them.

thebillynator

While playing at LAC i witnessed a very dishonest bang kill...
three of my team mates advanced on an enemy from behind,the eneny then glanced at them and said ,"bang all three of ye" with his gun pointing in the opposite direction.
Now these players are regulars at LAC and decent players,but this older player obviously thought that they would accept it(which they did) on very dishonest terms.

Blazer

thebillynator wrote: »

While playing at LAC i witnessed a very dishonest bang kill...
three of my team mates advanced on an enemy from behind,the eneny then glanced at them and said ,"bang all three of ye" with his gun pointing in the opposite direction.
Now these players are regulars at LAC and decent players,but this older player obviously thought that they would accept it(which they did) on very dishonest terms.

show em this thread and next time they'll know better

fayer

Sc@recrow wrote: »

show em this thread and next time they'll know better

Or shoot the idiot

I think it should be universally understood that if you bang kill someone and they manage to shoot you before you cap them it was your own fault for not shooting in the first place as it was not clear your were going to completely get the drop on them.

Blazer

admit it fayer...you have fantasies about the Gunfight at HRTA corral

SpookyBastard

Really think it's sad that someone would take so much pleasure in causing a fellow airsofter pain. After all, isn't the whole point that regardless of what side your on we're all essentially in the same club.

There is a great video from section 8 in Scotland where one of the players (Wullie) is running along into the enemy area to get an objective item. He approaches an enemy team member and says 'Alan?' ... 'Yeah?' ... 'Bang!' whereupon everyone breaks out laughing. It was a great bang kill because Wullie ran right up to Alan and caught him totally off guard. If Wullie had shot Alan in the head with the pistol, he'd probably have been told to feck off back to the safezone.

Causing pain with a close up shot does not make you cool or sneaky, it makes you pathetic. I myself got hit in the side of the head by one of the high fps sniper rifles. It hurt a tad as it caught me in the soft spot on the temple. The sniper who hit me was very apologetic and explained he hadn't meant to hit me in the head. It's a sad state of affairs that this makes me think very highly of him because I've met quite a few players who think hurting a fellow airsofter makes them the big man.

I guess you get this in every sport. There was a lad in my Shotokan club who thought light sparring practice was an excuse to hurt classmates. Needless to say he didn't last long.

joe stodge

Gray wrote: »

Since you decided not to offer a bang kill this says more about you rather than whether or not bang kills work

bang kills are not used in the office. its a site rule.

Sod'o swords

joe stodge wrote: »

bang kills are not used in the office. its a site rule.

As far as i know it's not a rule in any site, it's a courtesy and up to the player to take it or not. In a game based on honor, site rule or not, you'd expect people to have common sense when it comes to shooting players 'Twice in the crown from 5ft away'. Maybe by making a site rule for it not to be used it's breding players like SnakeDoc?

gerrowadat

Sod'o swords wrote: »

As far as i know it's not a rule in any site, it's a courtesy and up to the player to take it or not. In a game based on honor, site rule or not, you'd expect people to have common sense when it comes to shooting players 'Twice in the crown from 5ft away'. Maybe by making a site rule for it not to be used it's breding players like SnakeDoc?

Rathbeggan was meantioned earlier in the thread as a site where you have to take bang kills.

joe stodge

Sod'o swords wrote: »

As far as i know it's not a rule in any site, it's a courtesy and up to the player to take it or not. In a game based on honor, site rule or not, you'd expect people to have common sense when it comes to shooting players 'Twice in the crown from 5ft away'. Maybe by making a site rule for it not to be used it's breding players like SnakeDoc?

knife kills are used instead. if your close enough for a bang kill you should be close enough for a knife kill.

Ayrtonf7

joe stodge wrote: »

if your close enough for a bang kill you should be close enough for a knife kill.

Only if your using commando pro

Sod'o swords

joe stodge wrote: »

knife kills are used instead. if your close enough for a bang kill you should be close enough for a knife kill.

That does make sense in fairness, but i can think of a few instances where i couldn't reach for a knife kill, but the only target i had was a head/face at a close range.

Not taking a bash at yourself or the site, like that i don't run a site so when it comes to these types of rules its only my experience as a player that I have to go by.

Gray

joe stodge wrote: »

bang kills are not used in the office. its a site rule.

Yea forgot they don't use the bang kill there. Played both there & the warehouse & given & received some painful close rang shots, but hay that's what happens when you play CQB.

SNAKEDOC wrote: »

the bang kill rule simply does not work. just yesterday in the office block i could have offered it to a noob with the shield who was advancing into a room unfortunatly for him he didn't see me on a chair proped up on the wall. he let this sream when i popped two in the crown of his head at about five feet. i nearly fell of the chair:D:D:D. ahhhhh good times!!

This to me however is proof the bang kill does have a place, if that had been me I'd have been saying I wish I could have given a bang kill not how much fun it was watching someone scream in pain.

Rhinocharge

I'm curious, since airsoft is a combat simulation sport, would the following not also apply (we're playing a game for fun after all are we not).

Explanation: "A victor gives no quarter when the victor shows no clemency or mercy and refuses to spare the life in return for the an unconditional surrender of a vanquished opponent.

Unconditional surrender: This wording is in the Rome Statute, taken almost word for word from Article 23 of the 1907 IV Hague Convention:
The Laws and Customs of War on Land: "...it is especially forbidden - ... To kill or wound an enemy who, having laid down his arms, or having no longer means of defence, has surrendered at discretion" and is part of the customary Laws of War.

Under the Laws of War "... it is especially forbidden ... to declare that no quarter will be given". This was established under Article 23 of the IV Convention – The Laws and Customs of War on Land of the Hague Convention of 1907.
Since a judgment on the law relating to war crimes and crimes against humanity at the Nuremberg Trials in October 1946, the 1907 Hague conventions, including the explicit prohibition to declare that no quarter will be given, are considered to be part of the customary laws of war and are binding on all parties in an international armed conflict."

If they can offer quarter (bangkill), should we not follow suit?

Witcher

Rhinocharge wrote: »

<Snip>If they can offer quarter (bangkill), should we not follow suit?

They're being saved from death though, but airsofters will just invariably bitch about bang kills unless they're in their favour. Sad really but that's the reality.

Spetzcong

Rhinocharge wrote: »

I'm curious, since airsoft is a combat simulation sport, would the following not also apply (we're playing a game for fun after all are we not).

Explanation: "A victor gives no quarter when the victor shows no clemency or mercy and refuses to spare the life in return for the an unconditional surrender of a vanquished opponent.

Unconditional surrender: This wording is in the Rome Statute, taken almost word for word from Article 23 of the 1907 IV Hague Convention:
The Laws and Customs of War on Land: "...it is especially forbidden - ... To kill or wound an enemy who, having laid down his arms, or having no longer means of defence, has surrendered at discretion" and is part of the customary Laws of War.

Under the Laws of War "... it is especially forbidden ... to declare that no quarter will be given". This was established under Article 23 of the IV Convention – The Laws and Customs of War on Land of the Hague Convention of 1907.
Since a judgment on the law relating to war crimes and crimes against humanity at the Nuremberg Trials in October 1946, the 1907 Hague conventions, including the explicit prohibition to declare that no quarter will be given, are considered to be part of the customary laws of war and are binding on all parties in an international armed conflict."

If they can offer quarter (bangkill), should we not follow suit?

Maybe then the concept of a bangkill should be changed, so that a player with another player in his sights can call for that players surrender, in much the same way as a bang kill would be called presently. A player can choose not to surrender, and be shot at close range, or they can put their hands up and take a walk to the respawn and avoid getting shot. Theoretically it would eliminate one person attempting to bang kill an entire room because 3 or 4 lads are hardly going to surrender to just 1 fella. It's a very similar concept to the bang kill, but I think it would avoid many arguments, I mean if you refuse to surrender and get slotted at close range and it stings like bejasus well sure you've only got yourself to blame, if you shout surrender at someone from 15 feet away and they choose to shoot at you instead, well, that's what you get when you tell someone to surrender when you're not in a position to make sure they have no other options.

Rhinocharge

Blay wrote: »

They're being saved from death though, but airsofters will just invariably bitch about bang kills unless they're in their favour. Sad really but that's the reality.

Same principle.
Offer a bangkill, you take the hit, die & you respawn.
No quarter, you take the hit, die, respawn, but you've neen hurt.

Witcher

Rhinocharge wrote: »

Same principle.
Offer a bangkill, you take the hit, die & you respawn.
No quarter, you take the hit, die, respawn, but you've neen hurt.

I've no problem with the reasoning behind it but rather how some people will still moan about it, the bang rule isn't really the problem but rather the players giving and receiving them.

Some shout bang from too great a distance, shout bang bang bang to a whole room, if people used their head when bang killing and used them sensibly there would be no problem with them, it's all the different sites rules surrounding them and how some interpret accepting or giving them as "weak" that is the issue I think.:)

Rhinocharge

Blay wrote: »

I've no problem with the reasoning behind it but rather how some people will still moan about it, the bang rule isn't really the problem but rather the players giving and receiving them.

Some shout bang from too great a distance, shout bang bang bang to a whole room, if people used their head when bang killing and used them sensibly there would be no problem with them.:)

I'm not disagreeing with you.

So how do we as a community rectify this issue?