Bang Kill rule

Blazer

Had a great day out a LAC yesterday.
At the start of a game I was playing a sniper role when 4 of the opposing team was about 5 feet from me.
I called out 4 bang kills in the space of about 10 secs .

Now here's my question which myself and the lads had a discussion on after the game..
For a sniper with a bolt action...what's the rules for a bang kill?
One lad stated that for bolt action I'm supposed to cock the rifle each time for a bang kill but he wasn't sure as obviously I already had a bb in the chamber. However I also had my pistol in my hand for the 4 kills so we weren't disagreeing on the kills themselves, just a theoretical discussion on what would happen if I didn't have a pistol.

My take on it was basically a bang kill is the same as shooting a bb at a guy...the next bang kill would be similar to a reload etc.
For instance..an AEG will still have the same bb in it if a guy gets 4 bang kills so why would a bolt action be different then in that case?

I'd like to know people's thought's on this just in case someone disagrees with me further down the line and I'd like to clarify the rules/guidelines in any case.

Stonewolf

If you can't make every shot you shouldn't call bang kill. It's a courtesy call, the other guy doesn't have to take it and if he shoots you then you shouldn't have called it.

Blazer

Stonewolf wrote: »

If you can't make every shot you shouldn't call bang kill. It's a courtesy call, the other guy doesn't have to take it and if he shoots you then you shouldn't have called it.

I don't think I was going to miss them from 4 feet away
Note to everyone...everyone agreed my bang kills was legit since I had my pistol out also..
It's just a discussion on a what if scenario for bolt action only..

plus I never realized it was a courtesy call and that I didn't have to take it..must remember that in future, does every site follow this?
Although in fairness every bang kill I've seen the other guy was only a few feet away..

Hivemind187

Most sites have the "bang rule" on the books however a lot of marshals (myself included) discourage its use because of the arguments it can cause since it is a courtesy and not actually an obligation.

Blazer

I suppose some guys would argue over the toss of a coin..
Even had Snipersight thank me yesterday for calling bang kill and not riddling him from 10 feet away.
Of course as he walked back with his gun up someone riddled him from close range

Inari

There was a great thread on this a while ago...I think it was Airsoft Reloaded's on the proposed rules for the Office Block

Blazer

So let's say if you didn't accept a bang kill do you just fire back or call out?
Seems unfair as the guy who called out the bang kill had just lost the advantage as he assumes the guy is going to accept it..

Stonewolf

If he moves to fire back you should shoot him. If he actually manages to fire back and hit you before you shoot him then you shouldn't have called it.

Blazer

Stonewolf wrote: »

If he moves to fire back you should shoot him. If he actually manages to fire back and hit you before you shoot him then you shouldn't have called it.

thanks for that...I'll be watching for that in future

Bernie Mac

That is an extremely interesting point. The idea in my mind of a bang kill is that you have to have the shot ie you must have battery, gas, etc. a bb in the chamber for each bang kill and have a line of sight and be able to take the shot with a bb if it was at range.

So with that in mind i probably wouldn't have allowed 4 bang kills with a bolt action however if the opposing players didn't try to react back eg bang kill u back i would have let it away because u would have eventually bang killed them.

Great point all the same

Ayrtonf7

Echo everything on bang kills, generally I wont take it unless Its coming from behind me or out of my LoS...

THe only problem with re-cocking (although i can see how to makes sense now) is that you wouldnt be able to keep cocking it unless you shout the bb

gerrowadat

Yep, people seem to misunderstand the point of the bang kill.

As I understand it, the rule comes from paintball, where the 'red mist' is a problem. Close range paintballs hurt like buggery, and on my few paintball trips I've seen otherwise quiet lads go postal when shot at close range. The adrenalin goes off and it can get messy.

In the scenario above, one of the 4 guys bang killed should have shot back if they saw the 4 bang kills. It's ok to chance your arm, they're valid kills if the opponent takes them, no matter the reason.

Personally I never take bang kills. It's a silly rule that doesn't really have a point apart from causing arguments. That said, not taking them has caused friction for me on the field as well, but that's life.

Flecktarn

Ayrtonf7 wrote: »

Echo everything on bang kills, generally I wont take it unless Its coming from behind me or out of my LoS...

THe only problem with re-cocking (although i can see how to makes sense now) is that you wouldnt be able to keep cocking it unless you shout the bb

That's what I'm thinking as well, basically you say bang take 2 seconds to load and shoot again, in that space of time yer man your trying to kill could easily shoot/bang kill you in that space of time?

Bernie Mac

I dont agree with not taking them, if you dont take it i would see it as causing an argument and i actually find it rude. If i did someone the courtesy of using a bang kill instead of a semi shot and they shot me back i would think "well f*ck you i was saving you the pain and u turn around and shoot me what a w*nker".

I understand in milsim the reason for not using a bang kill but in regular skirmishing i play it as a rule. It is too dangerous. Every says you are meant to pop one shot into the chest when in bang kill range but that never happens. Most people are smart enough to stay in cover and or the other person has no semi but instead has a high speed gearbox with an 11.1 lipo and and itchy finger resulting in a mouth full of bbs and gapped teeth.

This is from my regular experience and from that i will always use it as a rule and if somebody doesnt take it and has the cheek to shot me back when i am being polite and playing by a sense of honour and respect to my fellow players they can feck off imo

Ayrtonf7

I dont agree with not taking them, if you dont take it i would see it as causing an argument and i actually find it rude. If i did someone the courtesy of using a bang kill instead of a semi shot and they shot me back i would think "well f*ck you i was saving you the pain and u turn around and shoot me what a w*nker".

To be honest, your playing airsoft you should be expecting to get shot. Semi or Fully auto its going to happen once or twice. The only reason I ever see a reason to use a bangkill is when im approaching somebody from behind. A simple bang would suffice there.

If hes quick enough to turn around and shoot me before I pop him one in the back after realising he hasnt taken the bang, then he deserves the kill

TheDoc

In the above scenario, as one of of the four players, I'd have shot back at you in a heartbeat, or called bang back.

Theres simply no way your taking out 4 lads with a bolt action within a bang kill range.

From your perspective, it was very cheeky to shout bang and expect 4 lads to take it :P

What could have easily happend there is you call bang, one lad turns around and shoots you, then you get pissed off and a row erupts.

Didnt happen, but it is usually the outcome.

Also theres no " you have to cock for each bang" rule, thats completely made up random ****, maybe site specific but sounds ridic.

Simply because you will double feed your rifle, and most rifles wont let you cock it again without firing.


Bernie I understand your point also. Last few weeks I've dropped a few bang kills on people simply because I had the chance too, and it was close range, and I dont get enjoyment from shooting people at close range.

One guy I even called out to him from about 30-40 feet, very cheeky of me, but I had him in my sights and his back was turned, he turned around and took it in fairness to him, but it was slightly cheeky of me. (But i called it cause i was confident i woulda hit him)

Theres been plenty of opportunities where I havn't taken a bang kill cause its simply being an outragous call on the opposing players behalf. They may feel the same as you, but a point to be made is that its based on differing opinions.

What you may consider grounds to call bang and someone to take, I might find it laughable and not take it. Hence where the arguements come from.

At the end of the day if you call bang on someone, and they shoot you before you shoot them, then really, you didnt have a right to call bang in the first place, if you know what I mean.

Bang kill should be a 100% certainty your going to shoot your target before they can even get a round off, if the opposite happens, then its simply not eligible as a bang kill, the odds arnt in your favour.

Blazer

Doc..I called bang kill with my pistol...not with the rifle..I explained this clearly
Also the bang kills were spaced over 10-20 seconds..

I'm discussing this in a theoretical manner in which a sniper doesn't have a sidearm and is only armed with a bolt action..

And here's a caveat...what happens if a guy with an AEG is out of ammo or maybe 2-3 bb's left? And he calls a few bang kills? is this any different from a bolt action?

Flecktarn

Sc@recrow wrote: »

And here's a caveat...what happens if a guy with an AEG is out of ammo or maybe 2-3 bb's left? And he calls a few bang kills? is this any different from a bolt action?

Precisely, sure the person who takes the bang kill will probably check you man's mag
to make sure he is not empty. I don't think that's feasible or necessary.

The way I see it is if you bang killed with a bolt action or an AEG you take the
hit no matter what, of course this is only my opinion.

Bernie Mac

TheDoc wrote: »

At the end of the day if you call bang on someone, and they shoot you before you shoot them, then really, you didnt have a right to call bang in the first place, if you know what I mean.

Bang kill should be a 100% certainty your going to shoot your target before they can even get a round off, if the opposite happens, then its simply not eligible as a bang kill, the odds arnt in your favour.

I know exactly what you mean and thats what i am referring to. I will only call a bang kill if I am 100% that i have the shot before they do, or if the case arises and we both either fire or shout bang at the same or a slight difference i will take it as a hit simply to keep the games flowing as well as it was quick on their or my part.

At the end of the day it is a game, i dont plan on going out to hurt other players as i dont go out to get hurt, i understand i'm going to get hit but i dont agree with getting hurt unnecessarily if you get me.

I think the bang kill rule is purely circumstantial in most cases and most of the time ends up with the marshals having to solve as it is up to the site rules to decide eg cocking a bolt action for each bang kill

Dread-Lock

I have never offered a bang kill and chances are if I ever do it will be very rarely. IMO a shot to the vest is courtesy enough. But opinions aside.

Not only have I been told at some briefings before game on that the "bang kill rule" is not a rule, but that you are not allowed call it out as it just causes way more problems then it solves.

AlternateID

Sc@recrow wrote: »

Doc..I called bang kill with my pistol...not with the rifle..I explained this clearly
Also the bang kills were spaced over 10-20 seconds..

Just to clarify. Don't want to start an arguement.

Sc@recrow wrote: »

Had a great day out a LAC yesterday.
At the start of a game I was playing a sniper role when 4 of the opposing team was about 5 feet from me.
I called out 4 bang kills in the space of about 10 secs .

I will only call a bang kill or accept a bang kill if the alternative a shot at close range to the head. If I can see your back, arm, leg or foot then I will shoot you. A bang kill is a courtesy to avoid causing unnecessary pain to another player.

If out of bb's and calling bang I consider the player to be cheating. It's not honourable.

Blazer

It was 10-20 secs ..more likely about 15..not really sure as I had the first guy in my sights when I called bang kill....about 6-8 secs later another 2 of the guys came up near me and i called two bangkills..the next guy then came up about 3-4 seconds after that..
All of them had their AEGs hanging down at their sides so there was no question of me missing any of them while they still didn't have a clue where I was...(thank god I bought that woodland marpat BDU off airsofteire during the week )
Basically I was lying down in a dyke/trench about 2 feet below their ground level in a huge thorn and nettle bush...in fact the fifth guy had no idea where I was and played a waiting game till I moved out of cover at which stage he got a bang kill on me..

I think the confusion is on my part as I naturally assumed a bang kill was mandatory ...anytime I've been bang-killed I've always accepted it as law..
well now I know differently.:)
Must ask LAC actually what their rules are on it as the last thing I want to be doing is having an argument with someone over a kill when I'm out playing purely for fun..

fayer

AlternateID wrote: »

I will only call a bang kill or accept a bang kill if the alternative a shot at close range to the head. If I can see your back, arm, leg or foot then I will shoot you. A bang kill is a courtesy to avoid causing unnecessary pain to another player.

If out of bb's and calling bang I consider the player to be cheating. It's not honourable.

Amen!

I never use bang kills, 1J is not enough power to cause permanent damage, even to the eye, a scientifically proven fact.

I am not without compassion, and know some shots hurt, so I will use a knife kill, meaning I am close enough to place my hand on the other players shoulder say knife kill and let them quietly walk back to re-spawn. If im close enough to knife kill, I will do it, no ambiguity about one of them.

If there is more than one player, Il fire on them all, semi auto, I dont see a fair way to handle multiple targets with a Bang kill.

Hivemind187

fayer wrote: »

If there is more than one player, Il fire on them all, semi auto, I dont see a fair way to handle multiple targets with a Bang kill.

Too right but you wouldnt believe the number of times I've seen someone running into a room or strafing a position shouting "BANGBANGBANGBANGBANG!!" and expecting the half dozen lads in receipt to accept these as kills.

... I'm also no fan of the "300-yard-bang-kill-brigade". Whatever about MilSim where a marshal will tap you out for standing around in the line of fire like a spare plum but guys hollering at one another from the other side of HRTA is just ludicrous.

But then I thoroughly dislike the "bang rule"

TheDoc

Sc@recrow wrote: »

Doc..I called bang kill with my pistol...not with the rifle..I explained this clearly
Also the bang kills were spaced over 10-20 seconds..

O soz mis read that part

I'd be the same as some people above, I'd call bang if I'm just in the mood or i have the jump on someone from close, but more likely ill knife kill.

If theres a chance for me to call bang, the likelyhood is ive got the time to shoot them anywhere, so I'll crack a round off at the tac vest or a spot that wont give an ouchie.

Bernie Mac

fayer wrote: »

Amen!

I never use bang kills, 1J is not enough power to cause permanent damage, even to the eye, a scientifically proven fact.

I understand your point alright but I do not agree at all with the above statement.

A player fire at me within what i would consider bang kill range and hit me in the head, to be more specific in the mouth resulting in me loosing one of my teeth permanently.

Now for someone who had braces for god knows how many years and looses and tooth and is given the option for a crown which costs an arm and a leg or a fake tooth on a retainer style thing that cover the pallete of my mouth it is not something you are too happy about and gives you just reason to use bang kills as u do not wish the same upon anybody else.

So after all that in my opinion it is a safety rule more than anything else.

Oh and just to mention i was wearing a full face mask when it happened.

Witcher

The only problem I have with the bang rule is someone walking into a room shouting "bang" then walking away..you're supposed to wait until the person says hit..I'd never take those ones but I would take one where the person was behind me or otherwise with the drop on me.

Had a bit of a barney over a bang kill in Hellfire in November where its a "rule" not a "courtesy" but that's another issue:)

oeb

Bernie Mac wrote: »

Now for someone who had braces for god knows how many years and looses and tooth and is given the option for a crown which costs an arm and a leg or a fake tooth on a retainer style thing that cover the pallete of my mouth it is not something you are too happy about and gives you just reason to use bang kills as u do not wish the same upon anybody else.

Out of interest, if you are so worried about loosing a tooth, why are you playing without full face protection in the first place?



I really don't know what my take on the bang kill rule is, I have only been playing a few months, so I have only had it used on me a few times (And any situation where I could have used it myself I have just used a single shot (or short burst) to the center of mass. I must say though, I have noticed that alot of players seem a bit over zelous and seem to quite often call out "BANG BANG" in situations where they were by no means guaranteed a hit. I accept that it's a nice thing to offer if someone walks around a corner into the barrel of your aeg, or if you sneak up on them, but there seems to be a fair amount of people shouting bang bang from 10 or 15 feet away into cover.

For that reason I would lean towards abolishing it. In my experience most players are not assholes, they won't riddle you at close range anyway.

jeawan

Blay wrote: »

The only problem I have with the bang rule is someone walking into a room shouting "bang" then walking away..you're supposed to wait until the person says hit..I'd never take those ones but I would take one where the person was behind me or otherwise with the drop on me.

Had a bit of a barney over a bang kill in Hellfire in November where its a "rule" not a "courtesy" but that's another issue:)

i have no problems with the bang rule in hellfire they do say you have to have you gun pointed at the person and be in close range , had a lad that tried to bang me at 20 yards and wasn't even pointing his gun at me Marshall standing beside him said that range doesn't count and i had shot him anyway .

Bang kills again i think are more courtesy if i am very close i'll use it have my gun facing that person and if they don't except ill semi shot them .

rossla

Personally dont offer them and wouldn't take one, A shot or two is fine at close range, or knife kill

Witcher

jeawan wrote: »

i have no problems with the bang rule in hellfire they do say you have to have you gun pointed at the person and be in close range , had a lad that tried to bang me at 20 yards and wasn't even pointing his gun at me Marshall standing beside him said that range doesn't count and i had shot him anyway .

I don't have a problem with the bang rule/ courtesy but how it's applied differently in every site, some sites if the person walks in shouts bang and goes out without you saying hit you can kill them other sites say once they say bang it doesn't matter if they walk away without you taking the hit.

Bernie Mac

oeb wrote: »

Out of interest, if you are so worried about loosing a tooth, why are you playing without full face protection in the first place?

I think i already answered your question in my post

Bernie Mac wrote: »

...So after all that in my opinion it is a safety rule more than anything else.

Oh and just to mention i was wearing a full face mask when it happened.

oeb

Bernie Mac wrote: »

I think i already answered your question in my post

Sorry, my bad.

Out of interest (And speaking as someone else who is paranoid about losing teeth), what type of full face protection were you wearing? I will have to make sure to avoid it.

Stonewolf

I've found the more rigid masks tend to be more brittle. You need a mask with a good flex in it for airsoft which means a lot of paintball masks wont cut it.

Facemasks are a whole different discussion though.

Bernie Mac

oeb wrote: »

Sorry, my bad.

Out of interest (And speaking as someone else who is paranoid about losing teeth), what type of full face protection were you wearing? I will have to make sure to avoid it.

Haha no worries man, it was the sensai masks the usual bog standard mesh masks you can get for a tenner, the only problem was that it bounced off a mag on my chest rig and shot up, pure one in a million shot but was still at bang kill range and was on a site that bang kills are a rule.

gerrowadat

Out of interest, what sites have bang kills as a rule? i.e. they're mandatory at a certain range and you have to take them?

gungun

I think G-tac did if I remember right

Bernie Mac

gerrowadat wrote: »

Out of interest, what sites have bang kills as a rule? i.e. they're mandatory at a certain range and you have to take them?

To mention one Rathbeggan do. It gets too dangerous in certain sections of the site so we make it a rule. We used to have too many players turning a corner/jumping over a cross hide and riddling 20 rounds into somebody.

So we felt we would put it in place and we have the marshaling power to deal with any problems that occur which are extremely rare with a minimum of 3 marshals on the field at all times :rolleyes:

Spetzcong

The only time I will ever offer a bang kill is if it is either that or a close range headshot to someone who isn't wearing a full face mask. In any other situation I will fire a shot or two, preferably into the centre mass.

I will usually take a bang kill if offered, mostly to avoid arguments, I have no problems with taking a hit, I take hits even when I'm not sure I've been hit, so I'm not going to p1ss and moan about a bang kill that's a little questionable, it's just a waste of energy, muppets will be muppets whether I give out to them or not.

I won't take bang kills from 20 feet, or multiple bang kills or any of that nonsense.

I'd like to see the whole 'rule' done away with and us just get back to shooting one another.

In a perfect world, all airsofters would be decent and honourable enough sportsmen to offer each other the courtesy of a bang kill in situations where shooting would cause undue pain or injury to another player. This is the only situation where I think it is acceptible to use. The reality though is that many people use the bang kill to gain an advantage over other players, there should be no gain from using a bang kill except that the person killed gets to walk back to the respawn without a tooth missing or a massive bleeding welt on their face.

A pet peeve of mine is people who stick their gun through a window or around a corner and shout bang, had they actually shot it would have been blind firing and against the rules, however since they only shouted bang they seem to think that the blind fire rule no longer applies.

fayer

Spetzcong wrote: »

I'd like to see the whole 'rule' done away with and us just get back to shooting one another.

Ban the Bang!

I feel a campaign coming on!

joe stodge

fayer wrote: »

Ban the Bang!

I feel a campaign coming on!

i second this.

rossla

Three!!

MagicIRL

I myself prefare the Knife Kill over bang rule - I get a little adrenalin rush sneaking up behind someone :D

But I myself have had some stupid bang kills shouted at me while playing some games. Generally I take them as to avoid the arguement that will indefinetly follow the kill. Its a Loose-Loose situation to be honest. You have players that will bitch that you didn't take your Bang! kill and then there are those who bitch that you shot them rather then offering the Bang!

In short; Knife Kill = Win. Its an undeniable death.

kevteljeur

I've been present for a 7-metre bang kill in the field. So far away, that the target could barely hear it (and those present will know what I'm talking about if they're reading this).

Believe me, that was controversial.



k

Witcher

kevteljeur wrote: »

I've been present for a 7-metre bang kill in the field. So far away, that the target could barely hear it (and those present will know what I'm talking about if they're reading this).

Believe me, that was controversial.

That will always live in my memory, walked down the field mid game and witnessed that..epic:pac:

Ayrtonf7

Actually the first bang kill experience for me was from my first skirmish at HRTA. Fair enough your man had the drop on me, But it turns out his AEG was broken so that was why he used it. Needless to say I took it but today I wouldnt have. I generally find myself staring at people after the shout "bang" at me just to make sure they could shoot there s**t if needed

As with getting rid of it...I just think it should be a courtesey as lets face it, in airsoft there will always be some extremem cases were certain "ancient" rules will still apply.

Blazer

Ayrtonf7 wrote: »

Actually the first bang kill experience for me was from my first skirmish at HRTA. Fair enough your man had the drop on me, But it turns out his AEG was broken so that was why he used it. Needless to say I took it but today I wouldnt have. I generally find myself staring at people after the shout "bang" at me just to make sure they could shoot there s**t if needed

As with getting rid of it...I just think it should be a courtesey as lets face it, in airsoft there will always be some extremem cases were certain "ancient" rules will still apply.

very unfair of him to call a bangkill.
I've seen guys out at LAC whose battery went dead and every one of them held their AEG up and left the gamezone.

Stercus Accidit

The bang kills I offer are only when there can be no dispute, I am not in a rush and yerman is definitely getting shot if he doesn't accept it. You always wait for the target to confirm they are taking the bang kill, I just ask if needs be.

Had a lad flank me once on the reload, I was kneeling facing the other way, changing magazines and he offered me the bang kill, he asked was I dead, I just said yeah sure, there was no reloading and brapping him in that situation and we both confirmed I was out.

A good bang kill is where the guy who is killed says thanks afterwards, because it was either that or a close range shot, anything else you may as well pull the trigger because I've seen and heard many "bang bang bang" shouts with questionable advantage to the 'banger'.

Sod'o swords

My take on the bang kill has been covered well by the lads above, so no point repeating. Though i have some funny bang kill stories, the best was one trip to Predator oh, i think over a year ago.

Myself and Conman were going though some of the less dense shrubbery quietly when we saw a lad in front of us, about ~20 feet away. We didn't know what team he was on, so just said 'Red or blue', he said nothing, said it again and although he wasn't facing us, had his gun by his side AND was ~20 feet away he just said 'Bang Bang'. Puzzled we thought he was talking to someone else, but he said it again, and then asked if we were going to take it. Oh course he got a double tap to the arm.

It's chancers like that and idiots running into rooms shouting Bang at everything that make it more trouble than it's worth. Even though at sites where it isn't a rule, i still offer to people where my only option is a close headshot, or if it's a young lad on his first day. Which btw is great fun, I never thought i'd find children screaming funny till i've crept up behind them with a gun..... Now there's a quote for the Star.

horgan_p

Spetzcong wrote: »

In a perfect world, all airsofters would be decent and honourable enough sportsmen to offer each other the courtesy of a bang kill in situations where shooting would cause undue pain or injury to another player. This is the only situation where I think it is acceptible to use. The reality though is that many people use the bang kill to gain an advantage over other players, there should be no gain from using a bang kill except that the person killed gets to walk back to the respawn without a tooth missing or a massive bleeding welt on their face.

QFT , agree completely

SNAKEDOC

the bang kill rule simply does not work. just yesterday in the office block i could have offered it to a noob with the shield who was advancing into a room unfortunatly for him he didn't see me on a chair proped up on the wall. he let this sream when i popped two in the crown of his head at about five feet. i nearly fell of the chair:D:D:D. ahhhhh good times!!