Stupid Motorway Users!!!!!

ART6

Another exciting motorway experience -- I was joining the busy motorway and had accelerated to the motorway speed. A very large artic was in the inside lane, and I indicated that I intended to pull out in front of him. He flashed me as HGV drivers often do to indicate that they have read one's intentions. I started to pull in front of him by, I guess, about six car lengths and about the same behind the next vehicle in the lane, matching their speed. Out of nowhere and old guy (invisible in the middle lane) shot past the artic and pulled right in, forcing me to brake and escape onto the hard shoulder to avoid being rear ended by the artic.

It may have served no purpose, but the artic's air horns could have been heard in Scotland!

Sad to say I have often seen people doing that around slip roads, and I still wonder what in God's name they think they are doing.

Jimbob1977

On the M20 in Limerick, you frequently have to contend with:

i) Pedestrians walking their dogs on the hard shoulder

ii) Hitch-hikers

iii) Cyclists

iv) People who overtake without indicating

v) People who move back into the left-hand lane without indicating

vi) People who don't indicate for an exit - just drive onto it

vii) People who pull into the hard shoulder to make a phone call

viii) People who accelerate at 140 kmph to beat everyone to the lane closure (i.e. roadworks where two lanes become one lane). They manage to avoid the traffic cones by an inch or the generosity of a motorist slowing down. The lane closure at Rosbrien is signposted at 800m, 600m, 400m, 200m and by neon sign. No surprises for anyone.

I saw a truck pulling into the hard shoulder to allow a maniac to avoid a collision with the cones and swerving into the remaining lane.

Cookie_Monster

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

iv) People who overtake without indicating

whats wrong with that?
You only need to indicate when changing lane*

* on a motorway

keithclancy

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

On the M20 in Limerick, you frequently have to contend with:

i) Pedestrians walking their dogs on the hard shoulder

ii) Hitch-hikers

iii) Cyclists

iv) People who overtake without indicating

v) People who move back into the left-hand lane without indicating

vi) People who don't indicate for an exit - just drive onto it

vii) People who pull into the hard shoulder to make a phone call

viii) People who accelerate at 140 kmph to beat everyone to the lane closure (i.e. roadworks where two lanes become one lane). They manage to avoid the traffic cones by an inch or the generosity of a motorist slowing down. The lane closure at Rosbrien is signposted at 800m, 600m, 400m, 200m and by neon sign. No surprises for anyone.

I saw a truck pulling into the hard shoulder to allow a maniac to avoid a collision with the cones and swerving into the remaining lane.

Or on the dual carriageway in cork where the limit is 120 but its perfectly legal to belt down the road on horse as its not a motorway.

Jimbob1977

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

whats wrong with that?
You only need to indicate when changing lane*

* on a motorway

You know what I meant:)

Mc Love

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

On the M20 in Limerick, you frequently have to contend with:

i) Pedestrians walking their dogs on the hard shoulder

ii) Hitch-hikers

iii) Cyclists

iv) People who overtake without indicating

v) People who move back into the left-hand lane without indicating

vi) People who don't indicate for an exit - just drive onto it

vii) People who pull into the hard shoulder to make a phone call

viii) People who accelerate at 140 kmph to beat everyone to the lane closure (i.e. roadworks where two lanes become one lane). They manage to avoid the traffic cones by an inch or the generosity of a motorist slowing down. The lane closure at Rosbrien is signposted at 800m, 600m, 400m, 200m and by neon sign. No surprises for anyone.

I saw a truck pulling into the hard shoulder to allow a maniac to avoid a collision with the cones and swerving into the remaining lane.

You missed:

People who drive forever in the overtaking lane (mostly women on this road) and from the M7 Rosbrien interchange to the Newport interchange

Voodoomelon

ART6 wrote: »

Another exciting motorway experience -- I was joining the busy motorway and had accelerated to the motorway speed. A very large artic was in the inside lane, and I indicated that I intended to pull out in front of him. He flashed me as HGV drivers often do to indicate that they have read one's intentions. I started to pull in front of him by, I guess, about six car lengths and about the same behind the next vehicle in the lane, matching their speed. Out of nowhere and old guy (invisible in the middle lane) shot past the artic and pulled right in, forcing me to brake and escape onto the hard shoulder to avoid being rear ended by the artic.

In fairness that was more of a freak occurance, two cars merging on the same lane on from either side of an artic. Either one of you was more than likely to not see the other.

ART6

Voodoomelon wrote: »

In fairness that was more of a freak occurance, two cars merging on the same lane on from either side of an artic. Either one of you was more than likely to not see the other.

Not sure you understood my post. The old guy was in the middle lane of the motorway that I was joining. He overtook the artic and just dived back into the left lane, apparently without it ever occurring to him that vehicles might be joining there and would not see him until it was too late. My point was that if you overtake an HGV by moving into the middle lane, don't return to the left lane until you are either clear of the slip or are satisfied that no-one is joining there.

Cookie_Monster

ART6 wrote: »

Not sure you understood my post. The old guy was in the middle lane of the motorway that I was joining. He overtook the artic and just dived back into the left lane, apparently without it ever occurring to him that vehicles might be joining there and would not see him until it was too late. My point was that if you overtake an HGV by moving into the middle lane, don't return to the left lane until you are either clear of the slip or are satisfied that no-one is joining there.

I'm not so sure. He was on the main carriage way you were not, you must yield to anyone on the main...

He was inconsiderate yes, but "wrong", I'm not so sure

limklad

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

On the M20 in Limerick, you frequently have to contend with:

i) Pedestrians walking their dogs on the hard shoulder

ii) Hitch-hikers

iii) Cyclists

iv) People who overtake without indicating

v) People who move back into the left-hand lane without indicating

vi) People who don't indicate for an exit - just drive onto it

vii) People who pull into the hard shoulder to make a phone call

viii) People who accelerate at 140 kmph to beat everyone to the lane closure (i.e. roadworks where two lanes become one lane). They manage to avoid the traffic cones by an inch or the generosity of a motorist slowing down. The lane closure at Rosbrien is signposted at 800m, 600m, 400m, 200m and by neon sign. No surprises for anyone.

I saw a truck pulling into the hard shoulder to allow a maniac to avoid a collision with the cones and swerving into the remaining lane.

I know this is going to sound frustrating, but lack of indicating is not illegal. It is just poor driving etiquette that will fail you only on your Driving Test. But if a Gardai may if they think in their mind you are driving "without due care" for other road users then they might pull you over but it is usually in combination with other bad road driving such as speeding, dangerous manoeuvres.

Other than the indicating the others bit mentioned can be enforce if the Traffic Corps actually enforce the Law. That is a major problem. Since Penalty Points system and Traffic Corps was Introduced, I have seen less Gardai pull over people or even speed camera since!! I only seen them when I am in Dublin.

Before Traffic Corps/Penalty Points, they (Gardai) were out in force especially between Newcastle West and Croagh Village on the N21, which was good because there was lunatics at speed on that road. Now they have free reign with lack of enforcement.

Since then I have not seen any Gardai with speed cameras on that road. The only time I see them is to enforce Road Laws, is when they have check points for Drink Driving or Road Tax/Insurance late at night.

limklad

ART6 wrote: »

Not sure you understood my post. The old guy was in the middle lane of the motorway that I was joining. He overtook the artic and just dived back into the left lane, apparently without it ever occurring to him that vehicles might be joining there and would not see him until it was too late. My point was that if you overtake an HGV by moving into the middle lane, don't return to the left lane until you are either clear of the slip or are satisfied that no-one is joining there.

I normally crib about old people driving due to their lack of knowledge of current Rules of the road, but In Fairness to the old man from what you describe, he followed the rules of the road, after he overtook the Artic, he proceed to go back into the left lane as per the Driving Etiquette of "the Rules of the road". He was not hogging the middle/overtaking lane.

But you were joining the Motorway and you must have full view of the Traffic on the Motorway and must give yield to traffic on the Motorway, therefore if you hit the old man car then you are at fault.

http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-for-driving/motorways/joining-the-motorway.html

Rules of the Road wrote:

* Use the acceleration lane to build up your speed before merging into traffic on the motorway.
* Signal early to other motorists that you intend to merge.
* As you approach on the slip road, check in your mirrors and your blind spot for a safe gap in traffic in the left-hand lane of the motorway.
* Obey road signs and road markings.
* Do not drive on hatch markings before merging into traffic on the motorway.
* Give way to traffic already on the motorway.
* Adjust your speed as you join the motorway so you match, as near as possible, the general speed of traffic in that lane.
* Treat each lane change as a seperate manoeuvre. Stay in the left-hand lane long enough to adjust to the speed of traffic before attempting to overtake.

Gazzydee

I think anyone who collects there pension needs to be tested every year and this is not ageism or anything like it. Its a well known fact that as you get older your body goes down hill a a alot faster at every year that goes by which is I think should be a basic rule in any country regardless!!

Also why is it that who cause these crashes and accidents by driving slowly on a motorway holding up traffic seem to all have chips on there shoulders!! I am breaking the law by driving on the motorway because I'm on a provisional but have been driving for a year on the M50 since i got my Licence!

not once have i crashed into anyone, had anyone flash at me, beep at me or caused a possible accident by stupid mistakes. I have no penalty points or any driving offences.

So why does the RSA feel the need to attack young drivers because of a few dopes who fly around in cars that sound like old generators handbraking around corners and the likes! I know plenty of people like me in the same situation as me and only know of a few "boy racers"

Most young drivers work there arse off to get a licence and a first car and insurnace and that so why would they throw it away! The view RSA is quite simply ageism! They must be afraid to admit to people that its the slow stupid drivers that do the damage. After all If the RSA came out and said slow drivers cause the damage and that people need to drive faster i could only imagine the madness it would start with all the panic and parents of kids who have been killed sayin little johnny was so good and would never do nothing in his little turbo micra that he smashed into a pole while racing one of his stupid minions!

I have let all this anger build up over just one year of driving on the M50 and im so tempted to to record my daily journeys from Bray to Ballymount just to prove to everyone exactly the way people drive!

The cops really need to get off there arses and patrol the roads not sit behind a bush drinking coffee playin with there new digital camera!

I really am seriously thinking of making a few videos and submitting them to the RSA and in doing so show the Gardai the cars and reg plates because if im only starting to drive now i can only imagine over the next few years how bad it is going to be for everyone!!

keithclancy

Gazzydee wrote: »

Also why is it that who cause these crashes and accidents by driving slowly on a motorway holding up traffic seem to all have chips on there shoulders!! I am breaking the law by driving on the motorway because I'm on a provisional but have been driving for a year on the M50 since i got my Licence!

not once have i crashed into anyone, had anyone flash at me, beep at me or caused a possible accident by stupid mistakes. I have no penalty points or any driving offences.

Having a crash or people beeping their horns at you wouldn't be the best way to find out your doing something wrong.

the point is that everyone could think everything is hunky dorey when in actual fact their doing lots of stuff wrong.

A driving test is the only way to accertain that, including motorways.

Blazer

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

On the M20 in Limerick, you frequently have to contend with:





viii) People who accelerate at 140 kmph to beat everyone to the lane closure (i.e. roadworks where two lanes become one lane). They manage to avoid the traffic cones by an inch or the generosity of a motorist slowing down. The lane closure at Rosbrien is signposted at 800m, 600m, 400m, 200m and by neon sign. No surprises for anyone.

I always make it by the 200m one

Gazzydee

keithclancy wrote: »

Having a crash or people beeping their horns at you wouldn't be the best way to find out your doing something wrong.

the point is that everyone could think everything is hunky dorey when in actual fact their doing lots of stuff wrong.

A driving test is the only way to accertain that, including motorways.

If i was doing anything majorly obstructing or dangerous Im certain i would get beeped or flashed at!

Driving tests have nothing to do with it either because i dont think some can evaluate anyones driving in 20-35 mins.

There should be monitoring and if you fail dangerously you shall not be allowed drive at all no first and second chances, the driving test should be about Road awareness and how good you navigate yourself and control your car but the current driving test is all from memory and pointless this seems to be the problem!

In finland it takes you about 5 years to get a licence because of the different driving conditions you have to master and also car control

That is the way things should be!

ART6

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

I'm not so sure. He was on the main carriage way you were not, you must yield to anyone on the main...

He was inconsiderate yes, but "wrong", I'm not so sure

It's not easy to yield to someone you can't see:D

Cookie_Monster

ART6 wrote: »

It's not easy to yield to someone you can't see:D

the only way you would not be able to see him is if you were far too close to the truck.

Did you also look over your should before changing lane?

keithclancy

Gazzydee wrote: »

If i was doing anything majorly obstructing or dangerous Im certain i would get beeped or flashed at!

Driving tests have nothing to do with it either because i dont think some can evaluate anyones driving in 20-35 mins.

There should be monitoring and if you fail dangerously you shall not be allowed drive at all no first and second chances, the driving test should be about Road awareness and how good you navigate yourself and control your car but the current driving test is all from memory and pointless this seems to be the problem!

In finland it takes you about 5 years to get a licence because of the different driving conditions you have to master and also car control

That is the way things should be!

You've based your ability to drive on
A. Not crashing into other road users
B. Other road users not beeping their horn or flashing their lights at you.

This does not mean your using the road correctly.

You need independant professional assesment imo to know what you can fix and how you can improve, the test isn't the important part in my view, its absolutely necessary but the lessons are more important.

RE: the 5 years thing in Finland, where did you get that from ?

The training for B class license requires 30 hours of instructed driving, including a spell on a slippery driving course, and 20 theory lessons. After this, the person must pass a computerized theory test and a driving test in city traffic with a minimum length of 30 minutes. C class training is similar, but longer.

Its pretty much the same as most continental european countries.

Gazzydee

keithclancy wrote: »

You've based your ability to drive on
A. Not crashing into other road users
B. Other road users not beeping their horn or flashing their lights at you.

This does not mean your using the road correctly.

You need independant professional assesment imo to know what you can fix and how you can improve, the test isn't the important part in my view, its absolutely necessary but the lesson are more important.

Ive gotten ten lessons even though after four my instructor said i did not need any more and just need to practice its about common sense most of the time because if your holding up traffic or causing accidents and it don't click in your head then why are you driving?!

keithclancy

Gazzydee wrote: »

Ive gotten ten lessons even though after four my instructor said i did not need any more and just need to practice its about common sense most of the time because if your holding up traffic or causing accidents and it don't click in your head then why are you driving?!

Thats grand so, when you get stopped by the cops tell them that and see how you get on

You might be fine, but you still need to pass your test.

I had a friend who was totally oblivious to everything going on around her, she never got beeped at or crashed into anyone, she just avoided roundabouts for 2 years instead.

Gazzydee

keithclancy wrote: »

Thats grand so, when you get stopped by the cops tell them that and see how you get on

You might be fine, but you still need to pass your test.

I had a friend who was totally oblivious to everything going on around here, she never got beeped at or crashed into anyone, she just avoided roundabouts for 2 years instead.

Yes i know that i dont plan on driving forever on a provisional i just thought a years driving experience would do me better

ART6

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

the only way you would not be able to see him is if you were far too close to the truck.

Did you also look over your should before changing lane?

What is it with you? I was joining the motorway, not changing lanes. At that point he was on the outside of the artic and behind it, so there was no way that I or anyone else joining the motorway could see him. When joining motorways at speed I use things called wing and windscreen mirrors that are designed and adjusted to eliminate blind spots. I don't go looking over my shoulder at up to 120k.

Anyway, I can't be bothered with this debate any longer.

Gazzydee

and your friend should have been taken off the road, if your completely oblivious to anything going on around you while are driving you cant possibly drive safely with due caution.

what you just said sums it all up. People like your friend are the ones causing road deaths and accidents!!!

Gazzydee

ART6 wrote: »

What is it with you? I was joining the motorway, not changing lanes. At that point he was on the outside of the artic and behind it, so there was no way that I or anyone else joining the motorway could see him. When joining motorways at speed I use things called wing and windscreen mirrors that are designed and adjusted to eliminate blind spots. I don't go looking over my shoulder at up to 120k.

Anyway, I can't be bothered with this debate any longer.

I agree with you ART6, its thinking like cookiemonster which contributes to this factor, people who have no motorway sense and especially if a person is driving on a motorway and comes near a sliproad and does not pay more attention is exactly what ART6 is talking about ART6 took all proper safety procautions and it was the stupidity of the old man or whoever he was making a stupid choice!

GTE

ART6 wrote: »

I use things called wing and windscreen mirrors that are designed and adjusted to eliminate blind spots. I don't go looking over my shoulder at up to 120k.

I would have thought the shoulder move is to take a look at your very visible spots.

I dont know what you are giving out about but to mention using mirrors to expose blind spots and discount using looking over your shoulder for the very obvious ones is beyond me.

keithclancy

Gazzydee wrote: »

and your friend should have been taken off the road, if your completely oblivious to anything going on around you while are driving you cant possibly drive safely with due caution.

what you just said sums it all up. People like your friend are the ones causing road deaths and accidents!!!

She's passed her test since.

But her 'Perception' at the time was that there was nothing wrong with her driving.

Don't you get it, your perception and what is correct are two different things!

limklad

Gazzydee wrote: »

I agree with you ART6, its thinking like cookiemonster which contributes to this factor, people who have no motorway sense and especially if a person is driving on a motorway and comes near a sliproad and does not pay more attention is exactly what ART6 is talking about ART6 took all proper safety procautions and it was the stupidity of the old man or whoever he was making a stupid choice!

I refer to my post 72 about the old man position on the Motorway.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=66814817&postcount=72

The onus is on the driver who is joining the motorway to yield to traffic on the motorway. The old man followed the rules of the road. ART6 did not take all proper precautions. If you read ART6 own posts, you see he did not see the old man until it was too late.

ART6 wrote: »

What is it with you? I was joining the motorway, not changing lanes. At that point he was on the outside of the artic and behind it, so there was no way that I or anyone else joining the motorway could see him. When joining motorways at speed I use things called wing and windscreen mirrors that are designed and adjusted to eliminate blind spots. I don't go looking over my shoulder at up to 120k.

Anyway, I can't be bothered with this debate any longer.

http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-for-driving/motorways/joining-the-motorway.html
ART6 is still at fault as the onus is on him to yield to traffic on the Motorway. The Old man is on the Motorway and is blind to traffic attempting to join the Motorway because of the Articulated Truck. ART6 tried to get ahead of the articulated Truck instead of getting behind the Truck where he could see all traffic and the Motorway traffic can see him attempting to join the motorway before he can join it safely, but instead He took the position ahead of the articulated Truck that left him blind to other lanes on the Motorway and put himself and others on the Motorway in a dangerous position on the Motorway.

blastman

Based on what ART6 said, the other driver didn't take proper precautions either, as he changed lanes without properly checking that the lane he was entering was clear, so at worst it was 50-50 who was in the wrong. In the real world i.e. not actually continuously looking up the ROR while you drive, I would say he, not ART6, was more in the wrong.

limklad

blastman wrote: »

Based on what ART6 said, the other driver didn't take proper precautions either, as he changed lanes without properly checking that the lane he was entering was clear, so at worst it was 50-50 who was in the wrong. In the real world i.e. not actually continuously looking up the ROR while you drive, I would say he, not ART6, was more in the wrong.

ART6 is still Wrong because he deliberately put himself in a blind side of the Traffic who are on the overtaking lanes on the Motorway. If ART6 could not see the old man or any other Traffic, then the old man nor any other Traffic (except the truck driver) could not see ART6 attempting to join the Motorway. The onus here is on ART6 to safety join the motorway. The Old man was already on the Motorway and following the rules of the road by completing his overtaking of the truck by getting back in the left lane.

ART6 should have enter the Motorway behind the Truck where he could see all of the traffic lanes on the motorway and entered it safely.

http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/videos/Motorway.wmv

http://www.rotr.ie/rules-for-driving/motorways/on-the-motorway.html

Rules of the Road wrote:

Checking traffic around you

Check your mirrors regularly, as you need to have a constant picture in your mind of what's going on all around you. Be very aware of your blind spots as well.

Avoid staying in other drivers' blind spots.

If you cannot see other drivers, they cannot see you.

Xios

ART6 wrote: »

I don't go looking over my shoulder at up to 120k.

That's something you gotta do, regardless of speed. It's something you learn pretty sharpish on motorbikes. 120kmph on a motorway is not that fast, they're very large open spaces, giving plenty of time to react at those speeds. There's no excuse not to do a shoulder check, limber up that neck of yours like your life depends on it.