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When & How could there be a united Ireland?

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    #602
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,018 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    Do we just go on the BBC poll a few pages back?

    TBH Id like think If it was announced that there was going to be a UI/UK poll quite a lot of people who say they want a one thing now would become more informed/have a think about it/weigh up the various considerations and find that once they reach the privicy of the polling both they would find themselves having a change of heart.

    A lot would depend of course on the campaign and how well each side in the debate reached beyond their own "community" and sold their case to both the opposing camp and the middle ground.

    While admittedly none of the main parties up here have been particularly good on that score up to now the prospect of a closely fought referendum might just shock them into seeing the need to reach out as it were.


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    #603
    Bottle_of_Smoke
    Registered Users Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭Bottle_of_Smoke


    i'm not sure it would be as big a demographic. Perhaps some staunchly anti-abortion nationalists might vote UUP whilst still vote yes on a border poll. I can't see that being a big group and cant really think of any other examples

    Sinn Fein/SDLP are generally smarter about not alienating people than the unionist parties. Maybe that will draw more people into the idea of a unified island in the future but it probably also means virtually everyone who would vote yes to reunification is already voting for them


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    #604
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Well I would never vote for a party who had a fundamental goal which I disagreed with.


    So these people must not be people who cannot be persuaded either way then? The fact that they would consider voting for SF suggests that they are not of the Paisley variety, and their vote is up for grabs so to speak?


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    #605
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,018 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    Well I would never vote for a party who had a fundamental goal which I disagreed with.

    Not trying to be smart but do you vote at all and if so do you find choosing who to vote for rather difficult ?


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    #606
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    Not trying to be smart but do you vote at all and if so do you find choosing who to vote for rather difficult ?
    Unfortunately I was not 18 when the last elections were held.

    I feel that that should be changed,I was perfectly capable of making an informed decision then.
    I get your point though.


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    #607
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,018 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    I feel that that should be changed,

    On reducing the voting age Im inclined to agree but thats for another thread/day


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    #608
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    On reducing the voting age Im inclined to agree but thats for another thread/day
    I might start that thread myself, would be some interesting debate.


    I would probably vote SF, or Independant.


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    #609
    Bottle_of_Smoke
    Registered Users Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭Bottle_of_Smoke


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    Well I would never vote for a party who had a fundamental goal which I disagreed with.

    You might if you knew that goal wasn't a short term goal, fully believed it wasn't an achievable goal yet liked some of their other short term goals.


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    #610
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »
    You might if you knew that goal wasn't a short term goal, fully believed it wasn't an achievable goal yet liked some of their other short term goals.
    Well to take an example, would one vote for say a "Legalize cannabis" party while being dead set against the idea, just because they have a few other policies one agrees with?

    Does the fact that one would vote for them not imply that one is not 100% dead set against the idea?


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    #611
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,018 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    Ive yet to find a party all of whose policies I agreed with

    Its the main reason why Ive never joined a political party
    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    Well to take an example, would one vote for say a "Legalize cannabis" party while being dead set against the idea, just because they have a few other policies one agrees with?

    Substitute the word "Candidate" for "party" and look at Ming Flannigan in Castlerea


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    #612
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    Ive yet to find a party all of whose policies I agreed with

    Its the main reason why Ive never joined a political party



    Substitute the word "Candidate" for "party" and look at Ming Flannigan in Castlerea
    Same here actually. No one party fully reflects my political views. Some come very close though. Although what of the "change from within" argument?


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    #613
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,018 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    Look at us here in this thread Im agreeing with some of your points and some of Owens :)
    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    Some come very close though. Although what of the "change from within" argument?

    Not one Id subscribe to unless its one of the smaller parties and one happens to be unusually talented when it comes to convincing people/getting ones point across


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    #614
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    Look at us here in this thread Im agreeing with some of your points and some of Owens :)



    Not one Id subscribe to unless its one of the smaller parties and one happens to be unusually talented when it comes to convincing people/getting ones point across
    That takes some doing! After that a UI will be easy! haha




    Yes I agree, but I feel it will be something valuable that I will miss out on if I don't join a party if you follow.


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    #615
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,018 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    Yes I agree, but I feel it will be something valuable that I will miss out on if I don't join a party if you follow.

    Be careful. In my younger days I came close to joining the Greens :eek:

    Nowadays Im more of a Marxist


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    #616
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    Be careful. In my younger days I came close to joining the Greens :eek:

    Nowadays Im more of a Marxist
    I will indeed. And if it all goes horribly wrong I can always leave. Then go back.

    Churchill did that after all. “Anyone can rat, but it takes a certain amount of ingenuity to re-rat"

    I counter your Groucho and raise you a Churchill! lol


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    #617
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,018 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    I counter your Groucho and raise you a Churchill! lol

    Guess we ought to get back O/T before we forget were not on AH :o


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    #618
    Bottle_of_Smoke
    Registered Users Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭Bottle_of_Smoke


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    Well to take an example, would one vote for say a "Legalize cannabis" party while being dead set against the idea, just because they have a few other policies one agrees with?

    Does the fact that one would vote for them not imply that one is not 100% dead set against the idea?

    Luke Flanagan ran in elections as a single issue candidate (cannabis) and got very little votes. Next election was still all for cannabis but also put forward his goals for the community. Got elected. He's now mayor of the town


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    #619
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    trapsagenius wrote: »
    It is clear from your post that you think the words "unionist" and "protestant" are interchangeable.They are not.

    Anyway, obviously not every village in NI will turn nationalist but yes, I believe that there will be a time when there will be at least a 51% nationalist population in NI.

    Thats not enough and if you creat a united ireland with that there WILL be riots.


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    #620
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    Hopefully the unwarranted siege mentality will fade with the decline of some of the more diehards.

    personally i would like the more bitter ones to go away as they are the ones thats causing all the fighting.


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    #621
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    trapsagenius wrote: »
    I think it has as much chance of success as any other proposal I've heard, tbh.This is all speculation anyway, and I think the important point we've clarified is that the wishes of the majority must be respected.This means NI remaining in the UK for the time being, and more than likely joining the south in the future.

    Aye but not going 1 % over the line like some have suggested.:rolleyes:


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    #622
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    trapsagenius wrote: »
    It is highly likely, especially if the nationalist parties continue their upward trajectory in the next few elections.SF are the largest party in NI at the moment after all.;)

    I don't think that it is "imminent" though.

    No they aren't its the dup and if they add in all the unionist parties versus the nationalists parties you fail!


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    #623
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    trapsagenius wrote: »
    Just using it as an example of how the nationalist vote has climbed.

    It could dramatically sink like the dup vote did, i actually have no idea why that happened maybe more republicans voted or something, or more came up from the border and voted.:mad:


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    #624
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    karma_ wrote: »
    Indeed, surely a Nationalist who desires to remain with the Union would be a Unionist?

    Thats not true some of them don't like the unionist parties, polices etc.


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    #625
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    Every vote for a party with such a clearly defined and promoted aim such as a united Ireland must be taken as a vote for a UI.

    Thats rubbish tbh. So they are voting for people who represent and work for something that they don't actually want? Head in sand.

    I think your dreaming now, now i know why a ui is never for happening in 50 years, firstly look think that the nationalist number will go over 51% and thats enough for a ui :rolleyes: and secondly you think that every single person in them parties will vote for a ui and believe me you they won't.;)


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    #626
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    trapsagenius wrote: »
    Come off it.People who vote for nationalist parties are nationalists.End of.

    OMG i hate the way yous try and tell us the way it is in ni we are here you are not we friggen know what it is like and yous have been proven wrong many a time.:mad:


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    #627
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »
    i'm not sure it would be as big a demographic. Perhaps some staunchly anti-abortion nationalists might vote UUP whilst still vote yes on a border poll. I can't see that being a big group and cant really think of any other examples

    Sinn Fein/SDLP are generally smarter about not alienating people than the unionist parties. Maybe that will draw more people into the idea of a unified island in the future but it probably also means virtually everyone who would vote yes to reunification is already voting for them

    I'd like to think that there are no nationalists voting for my party.


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    #628
    Bottle_of_Smoke
    Registered Users Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭Bottle_of_Smoke


    owenc wrote: »
    I'd like to think that there are no nationalists voting for my party.

    what do you mean?


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    #629
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »
    what do you mean?

    I'd like to hope that my party wasn't known as the nationalist type party out of the unionist ones.


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    #630
    P. Breathnach
    Registered Users Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    owenc wrote: »
    I'd like to hope that my party wasn't known as the nationalist type party out of the unionist ones.

    In effect, what you want is that all politics in NI starts with people being nationalists or unionists, and that everything else is relatively unimportant.

    Sadly, such a way of seeing things is the general pattern in NI.


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    #631
    merlie
    Registered Users Posts: 673 ✭✭✭merlie


    Hi Op,

    It is a tough one really, as we are now in the 21st century and trying not to get buried under old issues. Times have moved on and so have a lot of people. I do think that it is possible for some people to prefer staying connected to the UK rather than Ireland as it is what they know and people have a tendency to stick with what they know rather than take a gamble on something else, which is understandable.

    I am not sure if a referendum would ever be implemented where people are given a choice. I think NI will continue under some political directives from mainland UK for some years.

    I think as always that politics and religion are likened to a molatov cocktail. It is an explosive combination!


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