Truth about Porn

vicecreamsundae

donegalfella wrote: »

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i think you misunderstood my point - i am not saying anything about banning pornography. just that watching lots of porn CAN affect people's ideas of what is normal sexual behaviour. all the media we consume [pornographic or not] can influence our attitudes/behaviours. some people seemed to be arguing it doesn't. i am simply saying it is not a coincidence that now that things like facials and choking are common in porn, that some people think it's common practice in real life and therefore not even worthy of discussing before engaging in.

K-9

vicecreamsundae wrote: »

i think you misunderstood my point - i am not saying anything about banning pornography. just that watching lots of porn CAN affect people's ideas of what is normal sexual behaviour. all the media we consume [pornographic or not] can influence our attitudes/behaviours. some people seemed to be arguing it doesn't. i am simply saying it is not a coincidence that now that things like facials and choking are common in porn, that some people think it's common practice in real life and therefore not even worthy of discussing before engaging in.

Exactly. It is like Gambling, Alcohol etc. In moderation fine, excess, bad!

Can't see why anybody would have a problem with that view. It can be very addictive and hard (!) to get off (!) as it is a psychological addiction.

vicecreamsundae

vicecreamsundae wrote: »

i think you misunderstood my point - i am not saying anything about banning pornography. just that watching lots of porn CAN affect people's ideas of what is normal sexual behaviour. all the media we consume [pornographic or not] can influence our attitudes/behaviours. some people seemed to be arguing it doesn't. i am simply saying it is not a coincidence that now that things like facials and choking are common in porn, that some people think it's common practice in real life and therefore not even worthy of discussing before engaging in.

On that note, its worth considering the opposite in a way to porn which consists mostly of the religious & "moral" outlook which has traditionally approached sex like its something dirty and only useful in the begetting of children. I can remember quite a few movies set in the last century which showed an environment which promoted the lack of knowledge and even pleasure from having sex. That being sex within a marriage. Sex outside of that wasn't even tolerated.

And while that's a type of propaganda from the last century, there are still those who promote the ideal of virginity prior to marriage, and the exclusion of any sexual readings to educate those getting hitched.

The problem I see when it comes to porn is that its totally subjective. It completely comes down to the individuals themselves, how they view the porn and what they ultimately seek to get from it. Just as those that are opposed to any sex before marriage, or any depiction of sex outside of the privacy of someone's bedroom, have their own personal reasons for seeking such limitations.

Age is also a factor worth considering since the use of porn changes over time... I know from listening to my friends over the last two decades that their fantasies have changed, and so too have their DVD collections. [:p] My own tastes are rather tame, since I've never felt porn to be any substitute for the real thing. Although being back in Ireland after living in Asia, I must admit a certain longing for the Asian appeal, which isn't particularly wonderful here.

Personally, I think people are read too much into the whole porn issue. Its no different to the releases people get from shooting shotguns, driving cars, gardening, etc. Its a form of stress release. As with anything it can be taken to extreme's but lets face it, that's human nature. Ultimately I'd be more concerned with the public/social need to find some dark and seedy reason for the simple act of watching some form of sexual stimulation. Are we really that embarrassed about sex?

I'd highly recommend all of you to take a trip to Japan. I've always found the attitude about porn in the west to be rather different to that of the attitude in Japan (and other parts of Asia). They don't seem to have the guilt mentality which is so common here.

Zombrex

Dudess wrote: »

That's not to say I think the porn industry is completely free of misogyny and degradation - I certainly don't (and even if the actresses aren't being debased, the characters are depicted as being debased) but it's a huge industry and there is bound to be various dimensions to it.

That is the thing, there are people out there who don't like women (men and women) and who are frustrated with real relationships (or lack of) and who retreat to porn to see fantasies of the pretty girl being sexually humiliated.

But that is not all porn. That is a sub-set, in the same way that Katie Price latest barely readable chick lit novel is not all literature. It is perfectly possible to spend your whole time reading without ever coming across a Katie Price novel and it is perfectly possible to spend your life looking at porn without ever going near the sub-genre of humiliation porn.

Zombrex

vicecreamsundae wrote: »

just that watching lots of porn CAN affect people's ideas of what is normal sexual behaviour.

So can being an idiot, and no offense but your friends sound like idiots.

nozzferrahhtoo

Bella_purple wrote: »

Having no 0 point to start the analyse from, I mean no data, not any pieace of information for what I seaked, I made a hypothesis: I assumed they could have been molested, as children.

Alas this is not a useful or accurate way to do "research". Essentially what you have done here is come up with a hypothesis which, you admit yourself, was based on NO data at all, and then you engaged in “confirmation bias” by searching for anecdotes which confirmed your idea.

The fact is you will not find an industry anywhere which employs women and where you could NOT find an anecdote that at least one woman in that industry was raped. Everything from McDonalds to the medical profession will have a raped woman in there somewhere.

We are talking about porn, and you have also included sex workers. Between the two this is a massive amount of women we are talking about here. It would be truly a shock if you COULD NOT find 10 anecdotes of raped women in a pool that big. The anecdotes you have found tell us precisely nothing about the industry itself and it certainly does not inform our moral position either way.

It would, quite literally, make just as much sense if I were to say "Women go into porn because they were given red lollipops as children" and then go out and see if I can find women in porn who were indeed given red lollipops.

Bella_purple

Yes, when I did my research I thought that a woman who choses to have a porn industry career it's not something very common. And yes I thought that if it wasn't that common, than I have to put it on a bad life experience. I say this because from what I've seen in life, women who became hookers (I will generally refear to sex industry, weather it includes hookers or porn actresses) came from poor, extremly poor families or were molested. So I thought it must be a reason.
Later I changed my perspective, I also agree that anyone can choose whatever. There are women who like sex and just want to do it in this friendly enviornment for sex . As simple as that.

As for the ethics, what do you mean by that: "and it certainly does not inform our moral position either way."?

Very simple question... Why do men enter the porn industry?

There's loads of comments here about women who enter the industry being molested, or have some other such problems but very little from what I read about why men do it...

And then I would ask why would any of you think that the motivations that men have to enter such an industry be different for women?

And lastly... if there is such a tie between women entering such an industry and previous "bad" experiences... Why is it that we don't have a massive sex industry in this country?

Surely the victims of those church scandals would have followed your norms and done the same as these other women you're referring to...

nozzferrahhtoo

Bella_purple wrote: »

As for the ethics, what do you mean by that: "and it certainly does not inform our moral position either way."?

What I mean is that if you can find the same anecdotes in ALL industry then our moral opinion about just ONE of them can not be informed be these anecdotes.

I can find women who were raped who now work in McDonalds, I can find women who were raped who now are in college doing phds, I can find women who were raped that are in politics. In fact I would be surprised if you can find a career path including women which does NOT have some women in it that were raped sometime.

Therefore being raped before they entered these career paths is irrelevant, and the fact that you would pick this to talk about in the context of just one career path out of them all is unfortunate. Our opinion of the sex industry simply can not be validly influenced by these anecdotes.

Or to put it another much simpler way: You correlations are based solely on anecdote and you have not even shown the beginnings of a causal relationship between the two.

The Corinthian

Deleted User wrote: »

I'd highly recommend all of you to take a trip to Japan. I've always found the attitude about porn in the west to be rather different to that of the attitude in Japan (and other parts of Asia). They don't seem to have the guilt mentality which is so common here.

We inherited the Abrahamic attitudes towards sex, I'm afraid - Hellenistic paganism was far more permissive, by even our standards, although it did have its own, alternative, sexual morals.

I just get the impression that many here view pornography through the prism of inherited sexual morals. They may long have stopped going to mass, but the imprinting they received as children is still there and now they are rationalizing it through the use of emotive and anecdotal arguments.

This is not to say that pornography is good, or non-exploitative or even socially positive; only that many work from the 'gut feeling' that it's bad and then work backwards to validate that feeling, rather than objectively assessing it.

Permabear

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vicecreamsundae

Wicknight wrote: »

So can being an idiot, and no offense but your friends sound like idiots.

so my friend is an idiot because her first time sleeping with a new guy he started choking her? and my other friend is an idiot because a guy tried to cum on her face without asking her first?
that makes loads of sense.:rolleyes:

vicecreamsundae

Deleted User wrote: »

Very simple question... Why do men enter the porn industry?

There's loads of comments here about women who enter the industry being molested, or have some other such problems but very little from what I read about why men do it...

And then I would ask why would any of you think that the motivations that men have to enter such an industry be different for women?

And lastly... if there is such a tie between women entering such an industry and previous "bad" experiences... Why is it that we don't have a massive sex industry in this country?

Surely the victims of those church scandals would have followed your norms and done the same as these other women you're referring to...

i agree that it seems a bit sexist of people to assume that when a woman chooses to do porn it must be because she as issues, was sexually abused or is a drug addict, but that men who go into porn are simply lucky.
i certainly believe that there are women who get into porn because they love sex and love to make money from it. but then the vaaast majority of women in porn aren't famous 'porn stars', and if we look at the statistics, depressingly it's true that women in porn/prostitution are much more likely to have been abused than the general population.

but the other thing is that female porn actors are paid a hell of a lot more than male porn stars, so maybe the conclusion is that women who go into porn maybe do it for the money more than men, who go into it because they enjoy the job. also, female porn actors are subject to more humiliating treatment than male actors [even if it is acting].

i'd like to think that everyone, male and female, who gets involved in porn is just making a career 'choice' because they love the work, but unfortunately it doesn't really seem to be the case -the fact is many women DO get involved in porn because they are struggling for money.

as for your comment about the church scandals -nobody said that if you are molested as a child you will probably end up in the sex industry, that's incorrect and insensitive.

nozzferrahhtoo

vicecreamsundae wrote: »

if we look at the statistics, depressingly it's true that women in porn/prostitution are much more likely to have been abused than the general population.

Can you link to such statistics for us so?

vicecreamsundae wrote: »

so my friend is an idiot because her first time sleeping with a new guy he started choking her? and my other friend is an idiot because a guy tried to cum on her face without asking her first?
that makes loads of sense.

Two anecdotes. I hope you do not intend to extrapolate from these that a) porn was the cause of this despite you showing no causal correlation and b) that this is generally therefore what porn causes.

vicecreamsundae

vicecreamsundae wrote: »

i agree that it seems a bit sexist of people to assume that when a woman chooses to do porn it must be because she as issues, was sexually abused or is a drug addict, but that men who go into porn are simply lucky.

Actually its more than sexist... its a bit retarded, The funny thing is that men can orgasm only a few times in a sexual session, a woman has the capacity to orgasm an infinite number of times. (ok, not infinite but within the comfort of the actual body). But the point stands.. that for all this propaganda about men being more suited to porn, its is the women that are more capable of enjoying it if performed by a man (or woman) that knows what they're doing.

i certainly believe that there are women who get into porn because they love sex and love to make money from it. but then the vaaast majority of women in porn aren't famous 'porn stars', and if we look at the statistics, depressingly it's true that women in porn/prostitution are much more likely to have been abused than the general population.

I, also, have to ask for these statistics. And also for proof that the numbers of unknown men is less than that of unknown women...

And again, the abuse aspect comes up, which it seemed everyone had agreed eventually the lack of statistics to back it up, and yet it rears its ugly head again.

but the other thing is that female porn actors are paid a hell of a lot more than male porn stars, so maybe the conclusion is that women who go into porn maybe do it for the money more than men, who go into it because they enjoy the job. also, female porn actors are subject to more humiliating treatment than male actors [even if it is acting].

i'd like to think that everyone, male and female, who gets involved in porn is just making a career 'choice' because they love the work, but unfortunately it doesn't really seem to be the case -the fact is many women DO get involved in porn because they are struggling for money.

You jump back and forth like crazy.

as for your comment about the church scandals -nobody said that if you are molested as a child you will probably end up in the sex industry, that's incorrect and insensitive.

Rubbish. Its not insensitive nor incorrect. I asked a question based on other comments here about the root causes for women entering the porn industry. Since this country has a past history of abuse towards people, it is reasonable to assume based on that prior reasoning that we would have a massive porn industry. We don't though.

As for being insensitive, i I don't see why. Seriously. You and other posters have talked about abuse being the reason for some of these actresses/actors getting into the industry. The only difference is that I've actually said church abuse rather than leaving it open to any kind of abuse. :rolleyes:

irishh_bob

vicecreamsundae wrote: »

i agree that it seems a bit sexist of people to assume that when a woman chooses to do porn it must be because she as issues, was sexually abused or is a drug addict, but that men who go into porn are simply lucky.
i certainly believe that there are women who get into porn because they love sex and love to make money from it. but then the vaaast majority of women in porn aren't famous 'porn stars', and if we look at the statistics, depressingly it's true that women in porn/prostitution are much more likely to have been abused than the general population.

but the other thing is that female porn actors are paid a hell of a lot more than male porn stars, so maybe the conclusion is that women who go into porn maybe do it for the money more than men, who go into it because they enjoy the job. also, female porn actors are subject to more humiliating treatment than male actors [even if it is acting].

i'd like to think that everyone, male and female, who gets involved in porn is just making a career 'choice' because they love the work, but unfortunately it doesn't really seem to be the case -the fact is many women DO get involved in porn because they are struggling for money.

as for your comment about the church scandals -nobody said that if you are molested as a child you will probably end up in the sex industry, that's incorrect and insensitive.

a woman doesnt need to to get into porn in order to have lots of sex

porn is a corrupt and morally bankrupt industry , its common knowledge that drug abuse is rampant and those who ply thier trade in it are usually from dysfunctional backrounds and lead dysfunctional lives

Klingon Hamlet

Porn like any other entertainment merely reflects the desires of interests of society at the time. It doesn't influence young males into hating women. That's like saying violent movies make people violent

The viewer takes away what they want from a film or show. It's down to them as a person, not the filmmakers/actors.

I do agree that some films are extreme, but there are extremes in any entertainment medium. It doesn't mean the majority of viewers enjoy it. Plus there are a growing number of videos where men are humiliated for the viewers' pleasure.

People who fear porn's influence are IMHO more insecure in themselves than the people around them. They are inhibited and/or repressed, and really need to relax:)

The Corinthian

irishh_bob wrote: »

porn is a corrupt and morally bankrupt industry , its common knowledge that drug abuse is rampant and those who ply thier trade in it are usually from dysfunctional backrounds and lead dysfunctional lives

Used to be common knowledge that the Sun went round the Earth too. You'll find that people of dysfunctional backgrounds and rampant drug abuse will be found in many areas of the entertainment industry too. Should we just close down the music, film and TV industries? Maybe you have more convincing evidence than common knowledge?

Also, would you care to define 'morally bankrupt'?

Permabear

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Nevyn

http://theyshootstars.com/

An inside snap shoot of porn valley in the usa.

donegalfella

donegalfella wrote: »

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And yet it seems that this is only related to aspects which touch on sexuality...

Look at Jackass and Johnny Knoxville ( and the host of other such "entertainment").. This stuff is a the material of utter stupidity but you don't see people crying out for it to be banned. Just as in movies we have rather disturbed movies like Clockwork Orange, or the "Saw" Series which portray rather extreme elements of society and yet have gained ultimate reputations. And the list in movies, music, "reality" shows, etc goes on and on. In many ways, I find Gerry Springer to be worse.. considering the level of crap that comes out of such shows, and even more so, the numbers of people who believe and support such shows...

And what is their defense? You don't have to watch them. Simple really. And yet that same defense isn't applicable to porn.

Now don't get me wrong... Mainstream porn I find rather.. boring. And the "extreme" porn such as S&M, bukkake, rape fantasies, etc just strike me as being weird. And yet, I can find more reason for porn to exist than Jackass..

The Snipe

One thing that would play a very big roll in this, (Which I don't think anyone has mentioned), both the men, and women could just be fulfilling their sexual fantisies, and because seocity sees pornstars as "Taboo", they could find it sexually enticing.

AngryBadger

Thaedydal wrote: »

http://theyshootstars.com/

An inside snap shoot of porn valley in the usa.

Interesting read, I think the final line sums things up nicely,

"Ultimately, pornography is a slave to supply and demand. If Porn Valley is America’s dream factory, it bears keeping in mind that its dreams are all yours."

Andrew33

catthinkin wrote: »

whatever gets you through the night so long as it does not involve amnimals or children and is between consenting adults i am fine with it . Porn has been around for as long as their has been humans and will be no matter if you like it or not , and futhermore if you dont like it dont watch it .

Ya put animals ahead of children ya freak, you should be burned at the stake:D, porn is probably the second oldest industry on the planet, but I do think the whole porn industry is becoming a bit too mainstream and that just numbs people against ANY sex crime.

Bella_purple

Well I just find it a bit peculiar if you choose to work in porn, from a woman point of view. Maybe it's the education women get or the society gets about how women should behave... That's why I assumed there are some hidden reasons. But now I guess I was wrong. Indeed, you'll find raped women in all industry; being raped, as a woman and working in the porn industry thus becomes irrelevant. But I guess if rape has to do with sex and porn industry has to do with sex also, then there is a bit of a link, though. Do you find the correlation acceptable, now, nozferatu'?

AngryBadger

Bella_purple wrote: »

But I guess if rape has to do with sex and porn industry has to do with sex also, then there is a bit of a link, though.

Sorry but that's just ridiculous, you might as well start saying that women who have children are doing so because of some secret history of rape, because, shockingly enough, conception is even more focused on sex than pornography.

I'm not disputing that there are abused women who get into pornography, but the "link" you're suggesting sounds more like it's based in you wanting there to be a link between sexual abuse/violence and a career in porn.

I'd suggest checking out the link Thaedydal posted earlier; http://theyshootstars.com/

There are several women in those pages involved in porn for various different reasons, but I don't think any of them mentions a history of rape as one of them.

Permabear

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AngryBadger

donegalfella wrote: »

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So your point is that gangbangs, a form of sex some people obviously have a taste for, should be kept to the dark and shady realms of subculture, essentially you're happy for gangbangs to occur as long as you don't have to be made aware of it and can pretend that sort of thing is only perpetrated by the sexually deviant?

Because unless the people who are the "subjects" of a gangbang are being forced into it, or coerced, or basically involved against their will then your point is null and void.

Permabear

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AngryBadger

donegalfella wrote: »

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So you were just pointing out the obvious?