Isreal and American forces ready to attack Iran within days

Mahatma coat

So Lets just get this straight, you argument is basicly


but only the Children of one side

King Mob

Mahatma coat wrote: »

is it right to use Your children as a Human shield?????????

No. But if you think that's what they are actually doing, you proved my point about your view being too simplistic.

Now notice you didn't answer the question.
Is it morally right for anyone to ever launch a rocket at a non-combat target where there's a chance they will kill children?

If your answer is anything other than a straight "no" then you believe that killing children is justifiable.

Mahatma coat

Is it Morally right to Invade someones Home and make them a second class citizen in it, is it morally right to run an apartheid State, is it Morally right to deny Basic food and water to a people, is it Morally right to keep that people in an open air concentration camp, is it morally right to bulldoze their fields and cause starvation, is it morally right to steal their water so that you can have a nice lawn, is it morally right to respond to youths throwing Stones with an Helicopter Gunship, is it Morally Right to Fire Missiles at Schools, is it Morally right to Machingun Ambulances??????????????????????????


Dont bother me with your selective Moral code.

King Mob

Mahatma coat wrote: »

Is it Morally right to Invade someones Home and make them a second class citizen in it, is it morally right to run an apartheid State, is it Morally right to deny Basic food and water to a people, is it Morally right to keep that people in an open air concentration camp, is it morally right to bulldoze their fields and cause starvation, is it morally right to steal their water so that you can have a nice lawn, is it morally right to respond to youths throwing Stones with an Helicopter Gunship, is it Morally Right to Fire Missiles at Schools, is it Morally right to Machingun Ambulances??????????????????????????


Dont bother me with your selective Moral code.

No to all of these.
You seem to think that because I don't think it's all the Israeli's fault I therefore must argee with all the messed up **** they do. Which again proves my point about your position being simplistic.

And again you fail to answer the question: is it morally right for anyone to ever launch a rocket at a non-combat target where there's a chance they will kill children?

Mahatma coat

how is it not ALL the Israelis Fault, is it the Palestinians Fault for having such nice land????

King Mob

Mahatma coat wrote: »

how is it not ALL the Israelis Fault, is it the Palestinians Fault for having such nice land????

So points proven.
Your position is an over-simplistic black and white thinking and you do believe killing children is justifiable.

Mahatma coat

You are putting words in my Mouth to suit some Agenda of yours.

Let me ask you this

do you Think the Israeli settlers have a Right to Steal the land from the Palestinians??

do those Palestinians Forefit their right to Defend themselves and their Children if the Israelis have Children??

If thats the case Me and my Young nephews will be around to where you live, you obviously wont object to living in MY New house

Mahatma coat

anyway whats Complicated about the Situation??

Only one side is engaged in an illegal War of occupation and Genocide

King Mob

Mahatma coat wrote: »

You are putting words in my Mouth to suit some Agenda of yours.

Yup my horrible agenda of "maybe Israelis aren't bloodthristy monsters."
The only reason I might be putting words into your mouth is because you aren't actually answering my questions or addressing my points.

Mahatma coat wrote: »

Let me ask you this

do you Think the Israeli settlers have a Right to Steal the land from the Palestinians??

No.

Mahatma coat wrote: »

do those Palestinians Forefit their right to Defend themselves and their Children if the Israelis have Children??

No.

Mahatma coat wrote: »

If thats the case Me and my Young nephews will be around to where you live, you obviously wont object to living in MY New house

And you see even if you actually did that, there's still no moral justification to harm them, attempt to harm them or harm them due to carelessness.
But you have said that there is because it wouldn't be my fault I harmed them.

Mahatma coat wrote: »

anyway whats Complicated about the Situation??

Only one side is engaged in an illegal War of occupation and Genocide

So my point is proven.

Mahatma coat

What Point???????????

And you see even if you actually did that, there's still no moral justification to harm them, attempt to harm them or harm them due to carelessness.
But you have said that there is because it wouldn't be my fault I harmed them.

See THIS, This is where you are making a Connection that simply is not there. this seems to be the basis for your 'Main Point' :rolleyes: and in Fairness you Just Didnt understand my point. course instead of just asking me you went off and decided to ascribe motives and meanings that simply arent there.

phosphate

King Mob wrote:

And you see even if you actually did that, there's still no moral justification to harm them, attempt to harm them or harm them due to carelessness.
But you have said that there is because it wouldn't be my fault I harmed them.

What King Mob is effectively saying here: it's perfectly acceptable for me to go and demolish his home with an army and bulldozers.
If he retaliates with violence, this is simply unjustified.

well, i can't see any flaw in his logic there, solid as a rock...:pac:

Mahatma coat

No, I think the nub of Mobs argument is

Its OK to Bring children into a Warzone and use them as Human Shields, because OBVIOUSLY its Someone elses Fault when they get killed

King Mob

phosphate wrote: »

What King Mob is effectively saying here: it's perfectly acceptable for me to go and demolish his home with an army and bulldozers.
If he retaliates with violence, this is simply unjustified.

well, i can't see any flaw in his logic there, solid as a rock...:pac:

Well I didn't say that. Or imply it. Or even hint at it.

Also by "them" I was referring to the children.

But hey, why not just assume that because I'm not totally against Israelis and totally behind the Palestinians I must be all for what the Israelis are doing.
Which brings me back to my main point.

King Mob

Mahatma coat wrote: »

What Point???????????

I've stated it many times: that your position is over-simplistic black and white thinking.

Mahatma coat wrote: »

See THIS, This is where you are making a Connection that simply is not there. this seems to be the basis for your 'Main Point' :rolleyes:

Nope, main point is above.

Mahatma coat wrote: »

and in Fairness you Just Didnt understand my point. course instead of just asking me you went off and decided to ascribe motives and meanings that simply arent there.

I did ask, many times. Each time the question was ignored.

King Mob wrote: »

Is it morally right for anyone to ever launch a rocket at a non-combat target where there's a chance they will kill children.

King Mob wrote: »

And again you fail to answer the question: is it morally right for anyone to ever launch a rocket at a non-combat target where there's a chance they will kill children?

King Mob wrote: »

Now notice you didn't answer the question.
Is it morally right for anyone to ever launch a rocket at a non-combat target where there's a chance they will kill children?

If your answer is anything other than a straight "no" then you believe that killing children is justifiable.

The only reason I can think of that you haven't answered this question is because the answer is "Yes, killing children can be justified." Therefore that's what I assumed.
If it's not please correct me and answer the question.

Mahatma coat wrote: »

No, I think the nub of Mobs argument is

Its OK to Bring children into a Warzone and use them as Human Shields, because OBVIOUSLY its Someone elses Fault when they get killed

And if you actually read my posts you would find I infact said the exact opposite.

King Mob wrote: »

Mahatma coat wrote: »

is it right to use Your children as a Human shield?????????

No.

Mahatma coat

OK Mob, if you are going to Call my Position
Oversimplified black and white thinking

Then could you provide a counterargument thats
NOT
Oversimplified B&W

instead of just



ya know, cos I'm just playin along at your level

phosphate

King Mob wrote: »

Well I didn't say that. Or imply it. Or even hint at it.

Also by "them" I was referring to the children.

But hey, why not just assume that because I'm not totally against Israelis and totally behind the Palestinians I must be all for what the Israelis are doing.
Which brings me back to my main point.

Here is something you're not grasping about the situation.

Israel are occupying land illegally according to international law -- that's the UN law, which america/israel have contempt for unless it serves their interests.

They have been oppressing palestinians for over 50 years, denying them the most basic human rights because the israelis think god has chosen them to live there....

Supporting Israel is equivilant to supporting the south african national party who enforced apartheid for 50 years...equivilant to supporting genocide of albanians in kosovo back in the 90's

Yes, Nelson Mandela was clearly a terrorist, wasn't he?
He had no moral justification to oppose oppression by racist white minority in his own native land...what a silly man.

He should have just kept quiet and let the white man steal his land and keep him segregated.

Who did Mandela think he was, opposing a foreign invader?
Who do the palestinians think they are opposing israeli settlements?

Utter cheek of these animals...do they not know Israelis are the master race and can do what they wish with impunity?

So your point is what exactly?

Mahatma coat

This

Supporting Israel is equivilant to supporting the south african national party who enforced apartheid for 50 years...equivilant to supporting genocide of albanians in kosovo back in the 90's

This is how the bullsh!t starts, people parrot off unsubstantiated bolloxology that they heard from some Warmonger trying to justify their Military budgets.

Do a bit of independent research into the Actual numbers and Ethnicities of the people killed and displaced in the Balkan conflicts, you will find a very different Truth to the one you have been told by the Hawks on sky news and in the US State Department.

sorry to pull you up on something that seems so trivial, but thats how this Sh!t starts, one side lays claim to the absolute Moral truth of the situation then their version of events is taken as Gospel.

phosphate

Mahatma coat wrote: »

This

This is how the bullsh!t starts, people parrot off unsubstantiated bolloxology that they heard from some Warmonger trying to justify their Military budgets.

Well, that's the funny thing, isn't it?

The albanians were liberators and freedom fighters -- the palestinians are terrorists.

Do a bit of independent research into the Actual numbers and Ethnicities of the people killed and displaced in the Balkan conflicts, you will find a very different Truth to the one you have been told by the Hawks on sky news and in the US State Department.

If you wish to start another thread and discuss it, please do.

sorry to pull you up on something that seems so trivial, but thats how this Sh!t starts, one side lays claim to the absolute Moral truth of the situation then their version of events is taken as Gospel.

The post wasn't for you.

Penn

I trust you've all seen the new addition to the charter about not making the natives restless. Just because you're a native yourself doesn't mean you still can't be in violation of this rule. Calm it down lads.

gizmo

Mahatma coat wrote: »

Si the Iranians are Bad Bad Men for supplying Weapons to the Palestinians so that they may defend their homes, but I see nothing of condemnation for the Americans who Supply the Israelis and facilitate their agressive and Illegal war.

The difference there being that Israel isn't a group who is considered a terrorist organisation by most countries in the world who generally fire rockets indiscriminately into populated areas.

As for getting criticism, the US were in fact criticised for their vetoing of the recent bill condemning Israeli settlements on Palestinian land. Another example of the problem with the veto power of the main five nations in the Security Council too.

Mahatma coat wrote: »

also If my friends DIDNT Help when you came and invaded my home I would be rather reluctant to call them friends.

You may not want to call them friends but I'm referring to the legal standpoint, they have no right to get involved in this matter at all. Just like the Iranians and the US on each respective side.

King Mob

phosphate wrote: »

Supporting Israel is equivilant to supporting the south african national party who enforced apartheid for 50 years...equivilant to supporting genocide of albanians in kosovo back in the 90's

I don't support Israel's actions.
But then since I don't believe them to be monsters either I must support racism and genocide...

phosphate wrote: »

Yes, Nelson Mandela was clearly a terrorist, wasn't he?
He had no moral justification to oppose oppression by racist white minority in his own native land...what a silly man.

Well he was, by definition.
But I think he did his best, most lasting work while in prison and afterwards.
And again if you want to actually read my posts rather than slot me into some binary system of "supports Palestine" or "horrible racist who supports genocide" you would find that I never said violence wasn't justifiable.
I was asking MC whether or not he feels violence against children is justifiable.
He refuses to answer and you are trying to pretend that question is something it's not.

So again my point is your position of plucky freedom fighters opposing a soulless, monstrous enemy is overly simplistic.

King Mob

Mahatma coat wrote: »

OK Mob, if you are going to Call my Position
Oversimplified black and white thinking

Then could you provide a counterargument thats
NOT
Oversimplified B&W

instead of just

ya know, cos I'm just playin along at your level

I thought you were somewhat knowledgeable about the goings on there.
I guess you're just ignoring or justifying the stuff you don't want to acknowledge.

The facts are: just because someone thinks the Israelis aren't pure evil doesn't mean they instantly agree with every single thing they do, unlike in your over-simplistic view.
The Palestinian fighters have targeted civilians and have killed children, just as the Israelis have. They aren't squeaky clean morally, unlike in your over-simplistic view.

Now since I've answered your questions, any chance you'll take a crack at mine?

Mahatma coat

NO Mob, I have no intention in answerin your Loaded questions

Di0genes

I'm sorry how is this a conspiracy theory anymore?

King Mob

Mahatma coat wrote: »

NO Mob, I have no intention in answerin your Loaded questions

But you've no problem asking them?

So how exactly is it a loaded question?
You either believe that the Palestinians are justified in killing children or you don't.
But given earlier statements and your reluctance to answer a simple question honestly, your answer is pretty clear.
I just think it's a great illustration of both the hypocrisy and the over-simplicity in your position.

Penn

Seeing as how Israel and American forces didn't attack Iran, and more importantly, seeing the direction this thread has taken, I'm closing it. If anyone wants to start a new thread about the topic, feel free. However, what is in this thread, stays in this thread. If you wish to continue this specific conversation, use the PM function (provided the other user wishes to continue the discussion, and bearing in mind the rules of the site).